Upper NW DC the "Suburbs"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, CCDC is suburban, zero difference from CCMD or Bethesda. I assume it's not the same suburban experience as someone in Great Falls or Clarksburg or Loudon, but it's definitely urban living. Cmon, OP, you can't really be surprised by this.

CCDC is more gridlike and has more sidewalks. I’m sure there are other differences, but those are the ones I’ve noticed.

Having sidewalks and grid like streets is not going to make it urban. For it to be urban it has to have a higher density of commercial within shorter walking distance and higher density of housing, which is only present around metro stations. For me also, there is another factor: car accessibility. Urban areas are not car oriented even if not high density, businesses/commercial don't offer customer parking, street parking is a PITA, everything is scaled toward walking and PT. Suburban areas have way more parking lots, most commercial places offer customer parking if at least a few spots, it's easier to park and drive vs. take PT or walk.

You have odd criteria. Even some places in Manhattan offer customer parking.

Also, there are places in the suburbs that have commercial within short walking distance and high density of housing, even if you have to take a bus to the metro and there are parking lots.

You are correct, but the criteria has to do with critical mass of car oriented vs. non car oriented retail and persistent density vs. a small pocket of isolated density that tends to be present in the suburbs around the central commercial area/metro. Also such suburban shopping/high density residential area will have lots of parking, large swaths of parking lots to walk through, and will be built most likely near intersection of major highways and roads, e.g. will be incredibly car oriented and will feel isolated from the rest of the areas, e.g. not easy to navigate without a car. Places like Mosaic and Reston are still largely car oriented, they are places you drive to and park and then walk around in that small area.

If you want a simpler criteria, then think about the car use. Highly urban = car ownership is a PITA (expensive parking, rare occasions to use it), suburban = hardship without a car or impossible to live without a car.

[Anonymous]

I think most of residential DC is pretty suburban to be honest. I grew up in Manhattan and my rowhouse w yard feels ridiculously spacious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes CCDC is the suburbs.

So is Brooklyn

And Queens!

Queens feels like the suburbs. Most of Brooklyn does not until you get to Sheepshead Bay.

Brooklyn is literally called the 1st suburb in the US.

It’s not about feel it’s about it being the suburb.

Brooklyn and Queens offer very mixed housing options. NWDC is definitely a lot more residential than either of them overall. There are areas of Brooklyn that are similar in density to NWDC, but they are still better covered by subway access, closer and more frequent subway stops, more commercial strips in closer walking distance than NWDC, not as car oriented, as commercial establishments don't offer parking for the most part. There are clearly suburban parts of Queens that are far from subway, but overall Brooklyn and Queens have large swaths of rowhouse/apartment building density that is closer in nature to DC core areas and not residential NWDC. DC itself is about as dense as Brooklyn and Queens, it's a mid rise and rowhouse density. NWDC has a more urban feel only around its main streets near metro stations, but metro stations are very far apart IMHO to make the entirety of this area feel urban. It's more like a denser suburb, then a city.

CCDC and Brooklyn are both suburbs.

What? Brooklyn is huge, it could be a city of its own and has an infrastructure of a city, CCDC is a neighborhood. It seems like you either had never been to Brooklyn or your idea of it is based upon the stupid Sex and the city show where Miranda "escapes" to the burbs of Brooklyn for that back yard. Brooklyn is immense and much much more dense, it has multiple subway lines, Prospect Park, museums and theaters, office buildings and ferry stations and a well developed waterfront, highrise density and mostly rowhomes with some SFH areas as well. It has MANY neighborhoods. And technically Brooklyn IS NYC, it's an outer borough, not a suburb. NYC has suburbs further out, in Long Island, Westchester and NJ. NYC has 5 boroughs, the most suburban of them is Staten Island. The comparison between Brooklyn with its tons of diverse neighborhoods to one residential area of DC is laughable.

[Anonymous]

I think it is “suburban” but not a “suburb” because it is part of the District. If DC became a state and was viewed as having different cities, though, it would definitely seem like a suburb. I think the transition from city to suburban in upper NW happens somewhere around Woodley or Cleveland Park.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is “suburban” but not a “suburb” because it is part of the District. If DC became a state and was viewed as having different cities, though, it would definitely seem like a suburb. I think the transition from city to suburban in upper NW happens somewhere around Woodley or Cleveland Park.

This.

[Anonymous]

Single family houses with yards?

Definitely suburban, no question!

Fwiw, technically it's an "inner ring" suburb but it's still a suburb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is “suburban” but not a “suburb” because it is part of the District. If DC became a state and was viewed as having different cities, though, it would definitely seem like a suburb. I think the transition from city to suburban in upper NW happens somewhere around Woodley or Cleveland Park.

no it's technically an "inner ring" suburb. It's a thing.

[Anonymous]

If you need a car, you live in a suburb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes CCDC is the suburbs.

So is Brooklyn

And Queens!

Queens feels like the suburbs. Most of Brooklyn does not until you get to Sheepshead Bay.

Brooklyn is literally called the 1st suburb in the US.

It’s not about feel it’s about it being the suburb.

Brooklyn and Queens offer very mixed housing options. NWDC is definitely a lot more residential than either of them overall. There are areas of Brooklyn that are similar in density to NWDC, but they are still better covered by subway access, closer and more frequent subway stops, more commercial strips in closer walking distance than NWDC, not as car oriented, as commercial establishments don't offer parking for the most part. There are clearly suburban parts of Queens that are far from subway, but overall Brooklyn and Queens have large swaths of rowhouse/apartment building density that is closer in nature to DC core areas and not residential NWDC. DC itself is about as dense as Brooklyn and Queens, it's a mid rise and rowhouse density. NWDC has a more urban feel only around its main streets near metro stations, but metro stations are very far apart IMHO to make the entirety of this area feel urban. It's more like a denser suburb, then a city.

CCDC and Brooklyn are both suburbs.

What? Brooklyn is huge, it could be a city of its own and has an infrastructure of a city, CCDC is a neighborhood. It seems like you either had never been to Brooklyn or your idea of it is based upon the stupid Sex and the city show where Miranda "escapes" to the burbs of Brooklyn for that back yard. Brooklyn is immense and much much more dense, it has multiple subway lines, Prospect Park, museums and theaters, office buildings and ferry stations and a well developed waterfront, highrise density and mostly rowhomes with some SFH areas as well. It has MANY neighborhoods. And technically Brooklyn IS NYC, it's an outer borough, not a suburb. NYC has suburbs further out, in Long Island, Westchester and NJ. NYC has 5 boroughs, the most suburban of them is Staten Island. The comparison between Brooklyn with its tons of diverse neighborhoods to one residential area of DC is laughable.

I does not matter what you "think should be a suburb". You have created some ridiculous criteria for "suburb" IN YOUR HEAD..... Brooklyn is the 1st suburb and it still is a suburb.

Brooklyn is a suburb get over it.

It's a borough, not a city.

So whether you live in CCDC or Brooklyn you are a suburbanite, even if it hurts your little feelings and destroys what you thought was your "city girl" identity.

[Anonymous]

The bigger issue here is that our downtown is not really a downtown.

[Anonymous]

Typical DCUM. Copious amounts of "ink" spilled over relatively silly semantics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is “suburban” but not a “suburb” because it is part of the District. If DC became a state and was viewed as having different cities, though, it would definitely seem like a suburb. I think the transition from city to suburban in upper NW happens somewhere around Woodley or Cleveland Park.

This.

This. There a peculiar subset of people whi is very invested in being able to say, "I live in the city!!" even though their daily experience is the same as their neighbors in Bethesda or Chevy Chase, half a mile to the North. They dislike *any* suggestion that they live in anythign less than the full urban experience. Which is, of course, ridiculous. They don't live in Columbia Heights, or Trinidad, or H St., or Logan Circle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes CCDC is the suburbs.

So is Brooklyn

And Queens!

Queens feels like the suburbs. Most of Brooklyn does not until you get to Sheepshead Bay.

Brooklyn is literally called the 1st suburb in the US.

It’s not about feel it’s about it being the suburb.

Brooklyn and Queens offer very mixed housing options. NWDC is definitely a lot more residential than either of them overall. There are areas of Brooklyn that are similar in density to NWDC, but they are still better covered by subway access, closer and more frequent subway stops, more commercial strips in closer walking distance than NWDC, not as car oriented, as commercial establishments don't offer parking for the most part. There are clearly suburban parts of Queens that are far from subway, but overall Brooklyn and Queens have large swaths of rowhouse/apartment building density that is closer in nature to DC core areas and not residential NWDC. DC itself is about as dense as Brooklyn and Queens, it's a mid rise and rowhouse density. NWDC has a more urban feel only around its main streets near metro stations, but metro stations are very far apart IMHO to make the entirety of this area feel urban. It's more like a denser suburb, then a city.

CCDC and Brooklyn are both suburbs.

What? Brooklyn is huge, it could be a city of its own and has an infrastructure of a city, CCDC is a neighborhood. It seems like you either had never been to Brooklyn or your idea of it is based upon the stupid Sex and the city show where Miranda "escapes" to the burbs of Brooklyn for that back yard. Brooklyn is immense and much much more dense, it has multiple subway lines, Prospect Park, museums and theaters, office buildings and ferry stations and a well developed waterfront, highrise density and mostly rowhomes with some SFH areas as well. It has MANY neighborhoods. And technically Brooklyn IS NYC, it's an outer borough, not a suburb. NYC has suburbs further out, in Long Island, Westchester and NJ. NYC has 5 boroughs, the most suburban of them is Staten Island. The comparison between Brooklyn with its tons of diverse neighborhoods to one residential area of DC is laughable.

I does not matter what you "think should be a suburb". You have created some ridiculous criteria for "suburb" IN YOUR HEAD..... Brooklyn is the 1st suburb and it still is a suburb.

Brooklyn is a suburb get over it.

It's a borough, not a city.

So whether you live in CCDC or Brooklyn you are a suburbanite, even if it hurts your little feelings and destroys what you thought was your "city girl" identity.

NP here. Have you ever been to NY? Brooklyn is more urban than all of DC.

[Anonymous]

I live there and I refer to it tongue-in-cheek as the "DC suburbs". I've lived both outside the beltway and in dense DC neighborhoods so CCDC feels in-between to me. I'm much more car-dependent but I still ride the bus quite a bit. People hang out in front of their houses a lot here, and you can walk to a small market and a nice community park which makes it feel more urban to me than the MD suburb where I grew up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you live in a SFH with a yard? Yeah, that’s suburban.

Sure but idk why that's seen like a bad thing. A home with a yard in a major city? Where you can walk to some restaurants and the metro? Count me in.

Most of Chevy Chase isn't particularly walkable to the metro.

Historically a desirable area but the lack of access to public transportation combined with an inventory consisting mainly of 1930s crackerboxes or 1990s McMansions doesn't bode well for its future relative to other areas.