Books on Russians

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I can't even begin to fathom how ignorant you sound.

So to understand you correctly, you are saying that the only people who can describe a given country's identity are citizens of that country? So you are rejecting the entire disciplines of sociology, anthropology, much of political science, much of history, etc. unless those researchers come from the countries they are analyzing.

So you don't find it in the slightest bit interesting that out of the three pages of recommendation, NOT A SINGLE BOOK by a Russian author was mentioned?

Bigotry.

It was. I mentioned Ponasenkov. The problem is that many books authored by the Russian authors are not translated into English.

Some of Alexander Zinoviev’s books (a logician, philosopher, artist and writer) were translated into English. He was kicked out of the USSR in the 70s for criticizing the Soviet regime. The scathing book “The Yawning Heights” made waves and was quite popular in those days of the iron curtain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"The former colonies are now better off than those that were no colonized!" The white savior complex has no bounds!
I am not even if that pp is suggesting it is a pity Russia!? was not colonized!

Russia was colonized by the Mongols. They, however, built no roads, hospitals, did not open any schools, did not inform people to wash themselves.
Read Mark Twain's “The innocents abroad” to learn what some countries were like before they became colonies. As an added bonus, Russia is in there too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should start with the classics. Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Pushkin, etc. I don't understand does what stem from Peter the Great? What do you mean why do they think they way they do? How do you think Russians think? From serfdom to 1812? Russians were still serfs in 1812. Serfdom was abolished in 1861. Are you suggesting that a. Russians all think alike, and b. that some U.S. author book can shed the light on these exactly same thinking millions of people? You should really ask Jeff to delete your insulting and thoughtless post.

You may think like a faux intellectual, but the Russian mindset is very much tied to totalitarianism. The czars of old and the despots from post revolution onward including the present day.

Pushkin, Tolstoy and Dostoevsky born generations apart were all part of the nobility at a time when the vast majority of Russians were illiterate and starving.

Indeed, in most countries, including the U.S. and England those living in poverty were not writing literary masterpieces! At that time. How many 19th century poorest of the poor wrote and published novels in the U.S?

The English poor and the European poor were better fed than the Russian poor. European literacy rates were higher than those in Russia. Russian child and general mortality rate from diseases was higher, life expectancy shorter. And Dickens was poor, his father went to debtor’s prison. Yet he went on to become on the greatest novelists of all time and became well-off. Russian society, as I still remember from school history, was caste-like with a table of ranks 14 in total. Gogol’s short story “The Overcoat” describes the tragedy of a small lower rank clerk who had his new overcoat stolen.

OP, Gogol is also a great Russian classics. His novel “The Dead Souls” is also worth reading to understand Russian people, as his play “The Government Inspector”. The term Potemkin village comes to mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dead Souls by Gogol

Great suggestion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I can't even begin to fathom how ignorant you sound.

So to understand you correctly, you are saying that the only people who can describe a given country's identity are citizens of that country? So you are rejecting the entire disciplines of sociology, anthropology, much of political science, much of history, etc. unless those researchers come from the countries they are analyzing.

So you don't find it in the slightest bit interesting that out of the three pages of recommendation, NOT A SINGLE BOOK by a Russian author was mentioned?

Bigotry.

Most of those books aren’t translated into English, nitwit! Moreover, many books by Russian authors HAVE been mentioned—mostly classic literature.

But here’s a non-fiction one: Violent Entrepreneurs by Vadim Volkov.

My problem is that you seem to think only the people in a given country can describe themselves, which is just patently stupid and would mean basically shutting down 98% of social sciences departments. Are you essentially advocating for that?

[Anonymous]

Here’s more:

Nothing is Real and Everything is Possible, by Peter Pomeranstev

Anything by Masha Gessen

The movies Brat, Brat 2, and Irony of Fates

But here’s the thing: all of those works corroborate what well respected non-Russian scholars like Fiona Hill and Timothy Colton write. These people work with one another at major think tanks, many times (excluding the directors of those movies).

If you knew what you were talking about, you would realize that castigating all non-Russian scholars is stupid, but I suspect you’ve actually barely read any of the books mentioned in this thread and likely only know about Fiona Hill from her testimony last week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I can't even begin to fathom how ignorant you sound.

So to understand you correctly, you are saying that the only people who can describe a given country's identity are citizens of that country? So you are rejecting the entire disciplines of sociology, anthropology, much of political science, much of history, etc. unless those researchers come from the countries they are analyzing.

So you don't find it in the slightest bit interesting that out of the three pages of recommendation, NOT A SINGLE BOOK by a Russian author was mentioned?

Bigotry.

Most of those books aren’t translated into English, nitwit! Moreover, many books by Russian authors HAVE been mentioned—mostly classic literature.

But here’s a non-fiction one: Violent Entrepreneurs by Vadim Volkov.

My problem is that you seem to think only the people in a given country can describe themselves, which is just patently stupid and would mean basically shutting down 98% of social sciences departments. Are you essentially advocating for that?

Not the PP you are addressing. I agree with you completely. To add to your point, I think that English-speaking and American authors that have been to Russia and wrote about it (like Hedrick Smith whom I read and agree with) can describe it from a perspective important to the English-speaking readers. Hedrick Smith wrote about lack of freedom, how the Soviet people were afraid to interact with him because they did not want to get in trouble with the government. Hedrick Smith also criticized the Soviet Education system, the lack of respect for human dignity. Many Russian people still have the Soviet mentality and will think nothing of those details. Hedrick Smith also mentioned how many Russians venerated Stalin saying when he was around, they had more order, he was shocked how many Russians longed for the dictator, to be ruled by the iron fist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I can't even begin to fathom how ignorant you sound.

So to understand you correctly, you are saying that the only people who can describe a given country's identity are citizens of that country? So you are rejecting the entire disciplines of sociology, anthropology, much of political science, much of history, etc. unless those researchers come from the countries they are analyzing.

So you don't find it in the slightest bit interesting that out of the three pages of recommendation, NOT A SINGLE BOOK by a Russian author was mentioned?

Bigotry.

Most of those books aren’t translated into English, nitwit! Moreover, many books by Russian authors HAVE been mentioned—mostly classic literature.

But here’s a non-fiction one: Violent Entrepreneurs by Vadim Volkov.

My problem is that you seem to think only the people in a given country can describe themselves, which is just patently stupid and would mean basically shutting down 98% of social sciences departments. Are you essentially advocating for that?

Not the PP you are addressing. I agree with you completely. To add to your point, I think that English-speaking and American authors that have been to Russia and wrote about it (like Hedrick Smith whom I read and agree with) can describe it from a perspective important to the English-speaking readers. Hedrick Smith wrote about lack of freedom, how the Soviet people were afraid to interact with him because they did not want to get in trouble with the government. Hedrick Smith also criticized the Soviet Education system, the lack of respect for human dignity. Many Russian people still have the Soviet mentality and will think nothing of those details. Hedrick Smith also mentioned how many Russians venerated Stalin saying when he was around, they had more order, he was shocked how many Russians longed for the dictator, to be ruled by the iron fist.

Yep. Polls show a majority of Russians have at least a neutral opinion of Stalin. That’s due to propaganda in their education system. As a result, are we to believe Russians when they say things like “Stalin did what he had to do” (which Russians personally told me when I lived there)?

Here’s a link to the Levada poll I was referencing. Sorry that it’s only in Russian. https://www.levada.ru/2019/04/16/uroven-odobreniya-stalina-rossiyanami-pobil-istoricheskij-rekord/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I can't even begin to fathom how ignorant you sound.

So to understand you correctly, you are saying that the only people who can describe a given country's identity are citizens of that country? So you are rejecting the entire disciplines of sociology, anthropology, much of political science, much of history, etc. unless those researchers come from the countries they are analyzing.

So you don't find it in the slightest bit interesting that out of the three pages of recommendation, NOT A SINGLE BOOK by a Russian author was mentioned?

Bigotry.

Most of those books aren’t translated into English, nitwit! Moreover, many books by Russian authors HAVE been mentioned—mostly classic literature.

But here’s a non-fiction one: Violent Entrepreneurs by Vadim Volkov.

My problem is that you seem to think only the people in a given country can describe themselves, which is just patently stupid and would mean basically shutting down 98% of social sciences departments. Are you essentially advocating for that?

Not the PP you are addressing. I agree with you completely. To add to your point, I think that English-speaking and American authors that have been to Russia and wrote about it (like Hedrick Smith whom I read and agree with) can describe it from a perspective important to the English-speaking readers. Hedrick Smith wrote about lack of freedom, how the Soviet people were afraid to interact with him because they did not want to get in trouble with the government. Hedrick Smith also criticized the Soviet Education system, the lack of respect for human dignity. Many Russian people still have the Soviet mentality and will think nothing of those details. Hedrick Smith also mentioned how many Russians venerated Stalin saying when he was around, they had more order, he was shocked how many Russians longed for the dictator, to be ruled by the iron fist.

Yep. Polls show a majority of Russians have at least a neutral opinion of Stalin. That’s due to propaganda in their education system. As a result, are we to believe Russians when they say things like “Stalin did what he had to do” (which Russians personally told me when I lived there)?

Here’s a link to the Levada poll I was referencing. Sorry that it’s only in Russian. https://www.levada.ru/2019/04/16/uroven-odobreniya-stalina-rossiyanami-pobil-istoricheskij-rekord/

Thank you. I can read Russian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to get political, but can anyone recommend books on the Russian identity, why they think & act the way they do, etc. does it stem from Peter the Great or the time of great distrust under Soviet rule? From serfdom to war of 1812 and world wars, etc? I think Ken Follett did a fine job, as well as Rutherford, but they are researchers, and can't truly convey the identity. TIA!

It appears that you’d like to read some quality Russian-bashing literature. I remember a Russian analyst on this board with ridiculous impressions , so maybe s/he could help with your search. I suggest this book https://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Art-Soviet-Cooking-Longing/dp/0307886824

Russians are different just like Americans are, with many social and cultural elements responsible for the diversity in views, life styles, etc. I was traumatized by my Russian childhood in many ways, but I appreciated a healthy dose of fun absurdity in my life and I do miss it. I find Mexico in many ways similar on some “spiritual level”, although I can never clearly conceptualize why.

Are you referring to me?

All I did was recommend books by Fiona Hill and Timothy Colton, who are widely respected experts. Can you specify why you have an issue with them?

I don’t know if it was you, I am referring to a Russain Analyst from another thread with a very skewed understanding of Russia. If it was you, then good for the OP - your suggestions probably reflect your dislike of the country you analyze.

Analysis has nothing to do with “like” or “dislike”. It is not a popularity contest. You take facts and evidence and then make conclusions based on where those facts lead you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I can't even begin to fathom how ignorant you sound.

So to understand you correctly, you are saying that the only people who can describe a given country's identity are citizens of that country? So you are rejecting the entire disciplines of sociology, anthropology, much of political science, much of history, etc. unless those researchers come from the countries they are analyzing.

So you don't find it in the slightest bit interesting that out of the three pages of recommendation, NOT A SINGLE BOOK by a Russian author was mentioned?

Bigotry.

Most of those books aren’t translated into English, nitwit! Moreover, many books by Russian authors HAVE been mentioned—mostly classic literature.

But here’s a non-fiction one: Violent Entrepreneurs by Vadim Volkov.

My problem is that you seem to think only the people in a given country can describe themselves, which is just patently stupid and would mean basically shutting down 98% of social sciences departments. Are you essentially advocating for that?

Not the PP you are addressing. I agree with you completely. To add to your point, I think that English-speaking and American authors that have been to Russia and wrote about it (like Hedrick Smith whom I read and agree with) can describe it from a perspective important to the English-speaking readers. Hedrick Smith wrote about lack of freedom, how the Soviet people were afraid to interact with him because they did not want to get in trouble with the government. Hedrick Smith also criticized the Soviet Education system, the lack of respect for human dignity. Many Russian people still have the Soviet mentality and will think nothing of those details. Hedrick Smith also mentioned how many Russians venerated Stalin saying when he was around, they had more order, he was shocked how many Russians longed for the dictator, to be ruled by the iron fist.

Yep. Polls show a majority of Russians have at least a neutral opinion of Stalin. That’s due to propaganda in their education system. As a result, are we to believe Russians when they say things like “Stalin did what he had to do” (which Russians personally told me when I lived there)?

Here’s a link to the Levada poll I was referencing. Sorry that it’s only in Russian. https://www.levada.ru/2019/04/16/uroven-odobreniya-stalina-rossiyanami-pobil-istoricheskij-rekord/

No it isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to get political, but can anyone recommend books on the Russian identity, why they think & act the way they do, etc. does it stem from Peter the Great or the time of great distrust under Soviet rule? From serfdom to war of 1812 and world wars, etc? I think Ken Follett did a fine job, as well as Rutherford, but they are researchers, and can't truly convey the identity. TIA!

It appears that you’d like to read some quality Russian-bashing literature. I remember a Russian analyst on this board with ridiculous impressions , so maybe s/he could help with your search. I suggest this book https://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Art-Soviet-Cooking-Longing/dp/0307886824

Russians are different just like Americans are, with many social and cultural elements responsible for the diversity in views, life styles, etc. I was traumatized by my Russian childhood in many ways, but I appreciated a healthy dose of fun absurdity in my life and I do miss it. I find Mexico in many ways similar on some “spiritual level”, although I can never clearly conceptualize why.

Are you referring to me?

All I did was recommend books by Fiona Hill and Timothy Colton, who are widely respected experts. Can you specify why you have an issue with them?

I don’t know if it was you, I am referring to a Russain Analyst from another thread with a very skewed understanding of Russia. If it was you, then good for the OP - your suggestions probably reflect your dislike of the country you analyze.

Analysis has nothing to do with “like” or “dislike”. It is not a popularity contest. You take facts and evidence and then make conclusions based on where those facts lead you.

How is life in the bias-free utopia?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Not the PP you are addressing. I agree with you completely. To add to your point, I think that English-speaking and American authors that have been to Russia and wrote about it (like Hedrick Smith whom I read and agree with) can describe it from a perspective important to the English-speaking readers. Hedrick Smith wrote about lack of freedom, how the Soviet people were afraid to interact with him because they did not want to get in trouble with the government. Hedrick Smith also criticized the Soviet Education system, the lack of respect for human dignity. Many Russian people still have the Soviet mentality and will think nothing of those details. Hedrick Smith also mentioned how many Russians venerated Stalin saying when he was around, they had more order, he was shocked how many Russians longed for the dictator, to be ruled by the iron fist.

This has nothing to do with the national identity and everything to do with a very rational response to external stimuli. If doing something non-critical brings you trouble, it is just as easy not to do it.

Today Russians interact with foreigners with no fear of prosecution. It is your contention that Russian national identity has changed?

This isn't "understanding Russian identity." This is "please describe to me all the ways in which Russians are different from, and inferior to us."

[Anonymous]

To get the conversation back on track, I can highly recommend Andrei Sakharov’s autobiography. He was the “father of the Soviet atomic bomb” and later a Nobel peace laureate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I can't even begin to fathom how ignorant you sound.

So to understand you correctly, you are saying that the only people who can describe a given country's identity are citizens of that country? So you are rejecting the entire disciplines of sociology, anthropology, much of political science, much of history, etc. unless those researchers come from the countries they are analyzing.

So you don't find it in the slightest bit interesting that out of the three pages of recommendation, NOT A SINGLE BOOK by a Russian author was mentioned?

Bigotry.

Most of those books aren’t translated into English, nitwit! Moreover, many books by Russian authors HAVE been mentioned—mostly classic literature.

But here’s a non-fiction one: Violent Entrepreneurs by Vadim Volkov.

My problem is that you seem to think only the people in a given country can describe themselves, which is just patently stupid and would mean basically shutting down 98% of social sciences departments. Are you essentially advocating for that?

Not the PP you are addressing. I agree with you completely. To add to your point, I think that English-speaking and American authors that have been to Russia and wrote about it (like Hedrick Smith whom I read and agree with) can describe it from a perspective important to the English-speaking readers. Hedrick Smith wrote about lack of freedom, how the Soviet people were afraid to interact with him because they did not want to get in trouble with the government. Hedrick Smith also criticized the Soviet Education system, the lack of respect for human dignity. Many Russian people still have the Soviet mentality and will think nothing of those details. Hedrick Smith also mentioned how many Russians venerated Stalin saying when he was around, they had more order, he was shocked how many Russians longed for the dictator, to be ruled by the iron fist.

Yep. Polls show a majority of Russians have at least a neutral opinion of Stalin. That’s due to propaganda in their education system. As a result, are we to believe Russians when they say things like “Stalin did what he had to do” (which Russians personally told me when I lived there)?

Here’s a link to the Levada poll I was referencing. Sorry that it’s only in Russian. https://www.levada.ru/2019/04/16/uroven-odobreniya-stalina-rossiyanami-pobil-istoricheskij-rekord/

No it isn't.

Actually it is. Putin overhauled the history textbooks and the changes included casting Stalin in a more positive light.