Whitman being evacuated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The word around school is that the victim said something racist to the attacker the week before. Obviously that doesn't make it less awful. When we teach kids about why you shouldn't be racist, it might help to tell the really determined ones that if nothing else they should shut up so they don't get beaten up.

Victim blaming.

Should we tell women not to dress provocatively or it's their fault if they're raped?

False equivalency. Dressing provocatively is not the same as saying something racist.

Violence is never the correct response to speech. Fight speech with more speech.

This student attacked another student and a teacher. I can't believe people are trying to justify this.

No one's trying to justify it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The word around school is that the victim said something racist to the attacker the week before. Obviously that doesn't make it less awful. When we teach kids about why you shouldn't be racist, it might help to tell the really determined ones that if nothing else they should shut up so they don't get beaten up.

Victim blaming.

Should we tell women not to dress provocatively or it's their fault if they're raped?

False equivalency. Dressing provocatively is not the same as saying something racist.

Violence is never the correct response to speech. Fight speech with more speech.

This student attacked another student and a teacher. I can't believe people are trying to justify this.

Dressing provocatively is not wrong. Being a racist is wrong.

Violence also is wrong but violence doesn’t make the initial racist interaction right.

There - do you understand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The word around school is that the victim said something racist to the attacker the week before. Obviously that doesn't make it less awful. When we teach kids about why you shouldn't be racist, it might help to tell the really determined ones that if nothing else they should shut up so they don't get beaten up.

Victim blaming.

Should we tell women not to dress provocatively or it's their fault if they're raped?

False equivalency. Dressing provocatively is not the same as saying something racist.

Violence is never the correct response to speech. Fight speech with more speech.

This student attacked another student and a teacher. I can't believe people are trying to justify this.

Dressing provocatively is not wrong. Being a racist is wrong.


well said


Violence also is wrong but violence doesn’t make the initial racist interaction right.

There - do you understand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, every time we’ve tried to provide more support and advocated for a different placement for students who REALLY need it, we can’t get the parents to return phone calls or attend the meetings. We currently have a student who elopes up to 5 times per day, hits staff members and has screaming fits multiple times per day and we’ve had to have a staff member one on one with him, which means that resources are taken from others in order to make that work.

We would like to provide that support for him officially but that requires data collection and many meetings. The parent will not take phone calls and will not respond to meeting requests. This significantly delays the process to get him the services and resources he needs. This has been the pattern with almost every student with these behavioral issues. So staff members continue to be hit and resources that other kids should also have access to are being used for just this one child. —teacher

I apologize, PP, but I am wondering what word you meant to use before autocorrect fixed it. Erupts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, every time we’ve tried to provide more support and advocated for a different placement for students who REALLY need it, we can’t get the parents to return phone calls or attend the meetings. We currently have a student who elopes up to 5 times per day, hits staff members and has screaming fits multiple times per day and we’ve had to have a staff member one on one with him, which means that resources are taken from others in order to make that work.

We would like to provide that support for him officially but that requires data collection and many meetings. The parent will not take phone calls and will not respond to meeting requests. This significantly delays the process to get him the services and resources he needs. This has been the pattern with almost every student with these behavioral issues. So staff members continue to be hit and resources that other kids should also have access to are being used for just this one child. —teacher

I apologize, PP, but I am wondering what word you meant to use before autocorrect fixed it. Erupts?

No, I meant that he elopes. It wasn't autocorrect. That is the term used to describe when students run out of the classroom (or any area they're supposed to be in at that time) or even out of the building. This student has done both, even with a staff member with him 1:1. He is much faster than an adult, and we are not allowed to physically stop him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, every time we’ve tried to provide more support and advocated for a different placement for students who REALLY need it, we can’t get the parents to return phone calls or attend the meetings. We currently have a student who elopes up to 5 times per day, hits staff members and has screaming fits multiple times per day and we’ve had to have a staff member one on one with him, which means that resources are taken from others in order to make that work.

We would like to provide that support for him officially but that requires data collection and many meetings. The parent will not take phone calls and will not respond to meeting requests. This significantly delays the process to get him the services and resources he needs. This has been the pattern with almost every student with these behavioral issues. So staff members continue to be hit and resources that other kids should also have access to are being used for just this one child. —teacher

I apologize, PP, but I am wondering what word you meant to use before autocorrect fixed it. Erupts?

No, I meant that he elopes. It wasn't autocorrect. That is the term used to describe when students run out of the classroom (or any area they're supposed to be in at that time) or even out of the building. This student has done both, even with a staff member with him 1:1. He is much faster than an adult, and we are not allowed to physically stop him.

That's eloping?

Huh. Thank you, PP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is completely and utterly unacceptable.

For Whitman (or MCPS) to allow an individual with this background to attend high school without proper supervision is shocking and a dereliction of duty (at best).

This individual (a legal adult) apparently hit a student (a child) in the head with that metal frying pan. Using it in that way makes it a deadly weapon. Yes, we can thank god it wasn't a different type of weapon, but none of that excuses allowing *this* weapon to make it into the school. The trauma inflicted as other students hear/saw the commotion - and the ensuing chaos is unacceptable. The bland, misleading email from the school -- clearly intended to downplay the incident - is a shocking and unacceptable insult to injury to the entire community.

No Whitman, this is not ok. You have failed the students of this school. It is ONLY by sheer grace and luck that this wasn't much, much worse.

Maybe start talking about protecting the students - not the rights of an *adult* with a dangerous background - during "One Whitman" and the counselors breakfast. Maybe that would help with the stress at the school.

And how do we know the kid has a history of violence/dangerous background? Or are you just assuming because he has mental health issues and lives in a group home?

If you're in the school, you can check his logs. I've had students with 30 pages of comm logs. Year after year, teachers (and other staff members) log in incidents, and many of these kids return. Some are impulsive and thus, create chaos. Others and impulsive and dangerous to themselves and others.

Sadly, life as a teacher is about CYA. It's exhausting but sadly, necessary.

It is tough that teachers need to do this, but again we have no idea this student had a history of violent behavior. The school would, but DCUM does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From what I heard, the suspect has been in altercations before.

The overall issue with school violence in MCPS is that they closed down the school for students with behavioral problems (Twain) a couple years ago, to much fanfare. Now, students with issues who are a threat are just shifted around between schools. In the Damascus rape case, the ringleader was on his third high school by that point, since that's all they can do.

There are other alternative schools that MCPS has access to. There's RICA. There's Blair Ewing, although I don't think it's geared for kids with behavioral problems. MCPS needs to do a better job of identifying the kids' needs and sending them to the appropriate schools. Maybe they can even expel a kid from MCPS and use that money to send the kid to a private school like Ridge or Foundations. If MCPS doesn't want to reopen the alternative schools, they should at least do something and not let the kids devolve into WWE in the regular high schools. The BOE has been dropping the ball for years, neglecting money and resources toward behavioral problems (closing Twain). The recent MCPS behavioral incidents in the news are not normal (Richard Montgomery HS hallway sex in 2014, Damascus HS football team, Rockville HS sex in bathroom, now Whitman frying pan). BOE needs to get their heads out of their sand and do something, anything. I get that they want to close the achievement gap, but they can walk and chew gum at the same time right?

You clearly have no understanding of the legal requirements of the special ed process or the nature of these private placements. You talk as if it's just a matter of MCPS assigning problem students to the right schools. It has nothing to do with the BOE. RICA, Ridge, Lourie Center, Pathways, Jefferson, Foundation, etc. are only for kids with IEPs. They have a right under federal law to be in the least restrictive environment. It's very often not until you have an incident like this frying pan attack that you have the evidence you need to demonstrate that a more restrictive placement is warranted. The IEP team isn't clairvoyant. And placing a kid in a 100% special education school is not a simple decision or an easy process--it's months of jumping through hoops, assessments, data collection, etc. and these private schools are not part of MCPS and can reject kids they don't think are a good fit. And they are ludicrously expensive. Blair Ewing is an alternative placement for kids who have been expelled, meaning you actually have to have done something terrible first to get there.

And that's assuming the parents are even on board. MCPS can try its best but parents can wreak havoc on the process. Getting a kid an IEP for Emotional Disability is already difficult because it's widely regarded as the third rail of special ed codes and many parents will do anything they can to avoid it or deny it, even if it's appropriate. Hence, the classrooms often end up filled with FARMS or minority kids because the wealthier parents hire lawyers and advocates to do gymnastics to avoid these placements, which MCPS is rightfully concerned about. Nobody wants to be in the ED classrooms in a comprehensive school, let alone be placed in RICA or Foundation unless the situation is absolutely desperate. Nobody wants their kid to be one of "those" kids (same with Intellectual Disability, sadly). With the Damascus rapist ringleader, all of MCPS's efforts to give him special ed and change his placement were stymied by his mother, who was in total denial of her son's issues and refused consent for services, which MCPS can do absolutely nothing about. Only when he did something truly horrible and was in legal trouble did she suddenly have an epiphany.

You seem to be advocating some kind of Minority Report world where MCPS magically knows who these problem kids are and forces them into 100% self-contained special ed placements before they've done anything to warrant it. IDEA doesn't work that way.

And this sort of support from the school to try to provide help is rare. Most parents of kids with special needs beg for assistance and appropriate supports but are denied until the kid breaks down at school. The incidence of anxiety/ PTSD in children from abuse and lack of supports is astounding. There really should be some sort of liability for educational malpractice.

Actually, every time we’ve tried to provide more support and advocated for a different placement for students who REALLY need it, we can’t get the parents to return phone calls or attend the meetings. We currently have a student who elopes up to 5 times per day, hits staff members and has screaming fits multiple times per day and we’ve had to have a staff member one on one with him, which means that resources are taken from others in order to make that work.

We would like to provide that support for him officially but that requires data collection and many meetings. The parent will not take phone calls and will not respond to meeting requests. This significantly delays the process to get him the services and resources he needs. This has been the pattern with almost every student with these behavioral issues. So staff members continue to be hit and resources that other kids should also have access to are being used for just this one child. —teacher

Parents should absolutely be doing everything they can for their mentally ill kids, but we don’t make it easy for them. I suspect in many cases parents don’t because they are worried about the stigma. I know this must be incredibly frustrating for teachers and schools- fighting that stigma is tough and they continue to have parents in denial. People make a lot of incorrect assumptions about mentally ill kids, many of them on display on this thread. Most mentally ill teenage boys are not violent, including those in group homes, but we tend to assume they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why a 19 year old from a group home is in our public school?

A student on an IEP is guaranteed up to age 21 to receive an education and a regular diploma. Better than dropping out which is often what happens to kids with emotional disturbance or learning disabilities. (I'm not sure otherwise what the federal law requires in terms of schools having to give up to age 21 to educate, although I remember a 20 year old woman who was married and in my senior high class, she had left h.s. when she married at 16 and then returned)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My senior ended up taking a freshman class because he thought he could work out a schedule where he didn't need a certain elective. Ended up having classes with freshman his senior year... i think it was an art credit.

Frankly I don't like the 4 year high school system precisely for this reason. There is a world of difference between 14 and 18. I have never liked the fact that you have 14 year old girls socializing with 18 year old men. A 7-9 Junior high would be better. That extra year of maturation would make a big difference.

"18 year old men", indeed.

How do you feel about 14 year old boys socializing with 18 year old women?

Jack Smith wants students staying in high school until 21.

That's fine, but these non-traditional students need to attend a separate school that's more equipped and tailored to meet their unique educational challenges. Some of them have behavioral problems, emotion problems, language problems, remedial problems, or a combination of the above, so they need a separate environment that can get the attention that they need at their own pace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The word around school is that the victim said something racist to the attacker the week before. Obviously that doesn't make it less awful. When we teach kids about why you shouldn't be racist, it might help to tell the really determined ones that if nothing else they should shut up so they don't get beaten up.

You made it up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The word around school is that the victim said something racist to the attacker the week before. Obviously that doesn't make it less awful. When we teach kids about why you shouldn't be racist, it might help to tell the really determined ones that if nothing else they should shut up so they don't get beaten up.

You made it up!

Actually, I heard the same from my kid who goes to Whitman. No idea if it’s true, but it is the story that’s going around among the kids at school.

[Anonymous]

No one over 18 should be in a public high school. If for whatever reason they’ll turn 19 during the course of a school year (retention at some point, special program, etc.) they should complete that school year at an alternative location. 19 year olds shouldn’t be in class with 13 year olds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one over 18 should be in a public high school. If for whatever reason they’ll turn 19 during the course of a school year (retention at some point, special program, etc.) they should complete that school year at an alternative location. 19 year olds shouldn’t be in class with 13 year olds.

Tell Jack.
He's on a stay til 21 plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My senior ended up taking a freshman class because he thought he could work out a schedule where he didn't need a certain elective. Ended up having classes with freshman his senior year... i think it was an art credit.

Frankly I don't like the 4 year high school system precisely for this reason. There is a world of difference between 14 and 18. I have never liked the fact that you have 14 year old girls socializing with 18 year old men. A 7-9 Junior high would be better. That extra year of maturation would make a big difference.

"18 year old men", indeed.

How do you feel about 14 year old boys socializing with 18 year old women?

Jack Smith wants students staying in high school until 21.

That's fine, but these non-traditional students need to attend a separate school that's more equipped and tailored to meet their unique educational challenges. Some of them have behavioral problems, emotion problems, language problems, remedial problems, or a combination of the above, so they need a separate environment that can get the attention that they need at their own pace.

Those schools were all closed years ago. Jack Smith has no alternative schools.