Overcrowding at Wilson

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d start with this article. Shows what they’re doing with Chicago being 85% low income. You can tell that’s where DC is moving towards. I suspect all these re-zoner advocates are going to be in for a rude awakening in 3-5 years. Now is the time to buy in Montgomery County!

“research shows that middle-class students tend to do as well academically in economically mixed schools. But more than that, there's emerging research to suggest that, indeed, middle-class students benefit from both economic and racial diversity.”

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/03/16/515788673/try-this-one-trick-to-improve-student-outcomes

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/10/19/446085513/the-evidence-that-white-children-benefit-from-integrated-schools


https://tcf.org/content/facts/the-benefits-of-socioeconomically-and-racially-integrated-schools-and-classrooms/?session=1

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ995900.pdf

But Wilson is already the type of income-diverse and racially-diverse school that Kahlenberg is arguing for. His solution for including more and more people in the integrated schools is by creating more Wilsons and by slowly bringing more middle-class families back into the system.

Blowing up Wilson by going all-lottery is not consistent with Kahlenberg’s prescriptions.

You are in deep deep denial if you think Wilson is going to stay 30% black, 20% Hispanic, and 20% low income in even 4 years. As is, the only way minority or low income students (outside of the handful at WOTP feeder schools) get to Wilson is Hardy, Adams, Shepherd, and Bancroft. Most here are advocated why Bancroft and Shepherd should go away and we all know Hardy is changing rapidly to eliminate that pipeline. If things continue the way they are, and if Shepherd and Bancroft get re-zones, Wilson would be richer and whiter than any of the MoCo HSs. We’re talking 5% low income (maybe) and 80-85% white.

The only way Wilson approaches anywhere near 80–85% white is if Janney is the only feeder. 60-65% white is conceivable.

Income diversity is a different matter. Wilson feeders have a low percentage of economically disadvantaged students. One question, though: How does DCPS definition of economically disadvantaged students compare to Kahlenberg’s low-income? Is it the same?

Even if true, you’d still have a 5% low income school in Washington, D.C. Aint happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
First, I aware of studies that say it is not harmful to the high SES student, but I have never heard of a study that says it is beneficial for a high SES student to commute to a low SES high school. (And the former are questionable.)

So I would love to see one of the studies to which you referred.

Nonetheless, it wouldn’t change my view. It seems if it is beneficial to everyone to commingle Wilson, Roosevelt, and Coolidge students, then it would be a social injustice not to intermingle Roosevelt, Coolidge, Ballou, and Anacostia instead.

Translation: Show me data that refutes my preconceived notions. Wait, you actually have data? Well, f that. I'm gonna ignore the data because [word salad].

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First, I aware of studies that say it is not harmful to the high SES student, but I have never heard of a study that says it is beneficial for a high SES student to commute to a low SES high school. (And the former are questionable.)

So I would love to see one of the studies to which you referred.

Nonetheless, it wouldn’t change my view. It seems if it is beneficial to everyone to commingle Wilson, Roosevelt, and Coolidge students, then it would be a social injustice not to intermingle Roosevelt, Coolidge, Ballou, and Anacostia instead.

Translation: Show me data that refutes my preconceived notions. Wait, you actually have data? Well, f that. I'm gonna ignore the data because [word salad].

.

+1. What would be the bet benefit of commingling 4 HIGH poverty schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Wilson REALLY overcrowded, or is this thread just puffing at windmills?

1600 students in a building that can accommodate 1300.
If kids are succeeding, it is despite the inept administration. They sell it as kids learning to "advocate for themselves".

And I am wrong. There are now 1,791 students at Wilson.

If there are 1791 students at a school built to accommodate 1300, then it cannot be argued that the school is NOT overcrowded, at least though the lens of the architects' intent. However, I pulled up Public School Review's "High School Profile," and it says that the student-teacher ratio is 14:1, and if that's true, then at least from my subjective perspective, the attention students are getting wouldn't seem so bad. HOWEVER, yet again, the same site says that this year's 9th-grade class is composed of 608 students, which is AT LEAST 150 MORE students than the prior 3 years. If that increase keeps up, I don't see how anyone's subjective view could result in a conclusion OTHER than, indeed, Woodrow Wilson High School is either presently overcrowded or on track to be very, very overcrowded as soon as next year. Dramatically overcrowded, even. Anyone care to disagree? The source of the information is here:

https://www.publicschoolreview.com/wilson-high-school-profile/20016

Their data seems to be from 2016-17. I don't see how they would have the 9th grade class size if no one else does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Wilson REALLY overcrowded, or is this thread just puffing at windmills?

1600 students in a building that can accommodate 1300.
If kids are succeeding, it is despite the inept administration. They sell it as kids learning to "advocate for themselves".

And I am wrong. There are now 1,791 students at Wilson.

Again, building capacity is a fantasy number. It was arbitrarily arrived at by determining the amount of space per sq ft a student needs. It’s like vapor math.

I don't think they even looked at square footage, just existing enrollment. It's vaper math.

If you mean the math was done by weed pipe "vapers," then I would agree with you.

Exactly what I meant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First, I aware of studies that say it is not harmful to the high SES student, but I have never heard of a study that says it is beneficial for a high SES student to commute to a low SES high school. (And the former are questionable.)

So I would love to see one of the studies to which you referred.

Nonetheless, it wouldn’t change my view. It seems if it is beneficial to everyone to commingle Wilson, Roosevelt, and Coolidge students, then it would be a social injustice not to intermingle Roosevelt, Coolidge, Ballou, and Anacostia instead.

Translation: Show me data that refutes my preconceived notions. Wait, you actually have data? Well, f that. I'm gonna ignore the data because [word salad].

.

+1. What would be the bet benefit of commingling 4 HIGH poverty schools?

Look, the most vocal advocates for merging the populations of Wilson and EOTP high schools are people living EOTP that want access to Wilson without moving.

The point is that if it is good for students to be in more racially and economically diverse schools, then why aren’t the EOTP schools wanting to merge with EOTR schools? Wouldn’t that have benefits for the students at Ballou and Anacostia? But, funny, people seem to only want the integration to go in one direction...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First, I aware of studies that say it is not harmful to the high SES student, but I have never heard of a study that says it is beneficial for a high SES student to commute to a low SES high school. (And the former are questionable.)

So I would love to see one of the studies to which you referred.

Nonetheless, it wouldn’t change my view. It seems if it is beneficial to everyone to commingle Wilson, Roosevelt, and Coolidge students, then it would be a social injustice not to intermingle Roosevelt, Coolidge, Ballou, and Anacostia instead.

Translation: Show me data that refutes my preconceived notions. Wait, you actually have data? Well, f that. I'm gonna ignore the data because [word salad].

.

+1. What would be the bet benefit of commingling 4 HIGH poverty schools?

It would mean slightly higher scores for Roosevelt and Coolidge, if for arguments sake let’s say all the rich white kids attended. Slightly lower scores for Wilson. The lower income kids would improve slightly and the high income kids would improve slightly while also learning that not everyone is rich and white. The rich kids would develop better social skills. Overall attendance would improve. There would be some kids graduating to matriculate at Ivies. And life goes on. A bunch of hand wringing over fear of other. That’s what I predict would happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First, I aware of studies that say it is not harmful to the high SES student, but I have never heard of a study that says it is beneficial for a high SES student to commute to a low SES high school. (And the former are questionable.)

So I would love to see one of the studies to which you referred.

Nonetheless, it wouldn’t change my view. It seems if it is beneficial to everyone to commingle Wilson, Roosevelt, and Coolidge students, then it would be a social injustice not to intermingle Roosevelt, Coolidge, Ballou, and Anacostia instead.

Translation: Show me data that refutes my preconceived notions. Wait, you actually have data? Well, f that. I'm gonna ignore the data because [word salad].

.

+1. What would be the bet benefit of commingling 4 HIGH poverty schools?

Look, the most vocal advocates for merging the populations of Wilson and EOTP high schools are people living EOTP that want access to Wilson without moving.

The point is that if it is good for students to be in more racially and economically diverse schools, then why aren’t the EOTP schools wanting to merge with EOTR schools? Wouldn’t that have benefits for the students at Ballou and Anacostia? But, funny, people seem to only want the integration to go in one direction...

I live EoTP and would send my kids to West, Roosevelt, or Coolidge. I probably would have to visit Ballou. I have a coworker who went to Ballou. Based on her stories, they rarely had a full day of school on year because kids kept pulling the fire alarms. If there is still that level of disruption than it isn’t worth my time to take my kid there for school. I think there are behavioral problems that administrators can’t or don’t want to fix. There are behavioral nightmares I don’t want my kid to put up with there. Granted, Ballou May have improved since my coworker went there. I don’t know any current parents or students there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First, I aware of studies that say it is not harmful to the high SES student, but I have never heard of a study that says it is beneficial for a high SES student to commute to a low SES high school. (And the former are questionable.)

So I would love to see one of the studies to which you referred.

Nonetheless, it wouldn’t change my view. It seems if it is beneficial to everyone to commingle Wilson, Roosevelt, and Coolidge students, then it would be a social injustice not to intermingle Roosevelt, Coolidge, Ballou, and Anacostia instead.

Translation: Show me data that refutes my preconceived notions. Wait, you actually have data? Well, f that. I'm gonna ignore the data because [word salad].

.

+1. What would be the bet benefit of commingling 4 HIGH poverty schools?

It would mean slightly higher scores for Roosevelt and Coolidge, if for arguments sake let’s say all the rich white kids attended. Slightly lower scores for Wilson. The lower income kids would improve slightly and the high income kids would improve slightly while also learning that not everyone is rich and white. The rich kids would develop better social skills. Overall attendance would improve. There would be some kids graduating to matriculate at Ivies. And life goes on. A bunch of hand wringing over fear of other. That’s what I predict would happen.

The “rich and white kids” at Wilson already know the world is not rich and white. The people you are so eager to enlighten live in MD or VA or go to private school. I’m not saying Coolidge wouldn’t work if it were suddenly to have a large chunk moved from Wilson. But don’t pretend that it would be some great educational opportunity for the transferred kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First, I aware of studies that say it is not harmful to the high SES student, but I have never heard of a study that says it is beneficial for a high SES student to commute to a low SES high school. (And the former are questionable.)

So I would love to see one of the studies to which you referred.

Nonetheless, it wouldn’t change my view. It seems if it is beneficial to everyone to commingle Wilson, Roosevelt, and Coolidge students, then it would be a social injustice not to intermingle Roosevelt, Coolidge, Ballou, and Anacostia instead.

Translation: Show me data that refutes my preconceived notions. Wait, you actually have data? Well, f that. I'm gonna ignore the data because [word salad].

.

+1. What would be the bet benefit of commingling 4 HIGH poverty schools?

It would mean slightly higher scores for Roosevelt and Coolidge, if for arguments sake let’s say all the rich white kids attended. Slightly lower scores for Wilson. The lower income kids would improve slightly and the high income kids would improve slightly while also learning that not everyone is rich and white. The rich kids would develop better social skills. Overall attendance would improve. There would be some kids graduating to matriculate at Ivies. And life goes on. A bunch of hand wringing over fear of other. That’s what I predict would happen.

The “rich and white kids” at Wilson already know the world is not rich and white. The people you are so eager to enlighten live in MD or VA or go to private school. I’m not saying Coolidge wouldn’t work if it were suddenly to have a large chunk moved from Wilson. But don’t pretend that it would be some great educational opportunity for the transferred kids.

The kids of AU Park and CCDC would benefit dramatically by getting out of their privilege bubble, trust me. If you have spent anytime with that demographic, it’s pretty clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First, I aware of studies that say it is not harmful to the high SES student, but I have never heard of a study that says it is beneficial for a high SES student to commute to a low SES high school. (And the former are questionable.)

So I would love to see one of the studies to which you referred.

Nonetheless, it wouldn’t change my view. It seems if it is beneficial to everyone to commingle Wilson, Roosevelt, and Coolidge students, then it would be a social injustice not to intermingle Roosevelt, Coolidge, Ballou, and Anacostia instead.

Translation: Show me data that refutes my preconceived notions. Wait, you actually have data? Well, f that. I'm gonna ignore the data because [word salad].

.

+1. What would be the bet benefit of commingling 4 HIGH poverty schools?

It would mean slightly higher scores for Roosevelt and Coolidge, if for arguments sake let’s say all the rich white kids attended. Slightly lower scores for Wilson. The lower income kids would improve slightly and the high income kids would improve slightly while also learning that not everyone is rich and white. The rich kids would develop better social skills. Overall attendance would improve. There would be some kids graduating to matriculate at Ivies. And life goes on. A bunch of hand wringing over fear of other. That’s what I predict would happen.

The “rich and white kids” at Wilson already know the world is not rich and white. The people you are so eager to enlighten live in MD or VA or go to private school. I’m not saying Coolidge wouldn’t work if it were suddenly to have a large chunk moved from Wilson. But don’t pretend that it would be some great educational opportunity for the transferred kids.

The kids of AU Park and CCDC would benefit dramatically by getting out of their privilege bubble, trust me. If you have spent anytime with that demographic, it’s pretty clear.

Not disagreeing, but their families would just move to CCMD/NoVa/Bethesda if things change. Or are people here too young to remember white flight?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First, I aware of studies that say it is not harmful to the high SES student, but I have never heard of a study that says it is beneficial for a high SES student to commute to a low SES high school. (And the former are questionable.)

So I would love to see one of the studies to which you referred.

Nonetheless, it wouldn’t change my view. It seems if it is beneficial to everyone to commingle Wilson, Roosevelt, and Coolidge students, then it would be a social injustice not to intermingle Roosevelt, Coolidge, Ballou, and Anacostia instead.

Translation: Show me data that refutes my preconceived notions. Wait, you actually have data? Well, f that. I'm gonna ignore the data because [word salad].

.

+1. What would be the bet benefit of commingling 4 HIGH poverty schools?

It would mean slightly higher scores for Roosevelt and Coolidge, if for arguments sake let’s say all the rich white kids attended. Slightly lower scores for Wilson. The lower income kids would improve slightly and the high income kids would improve slightly while also learning that not everyone is rich and white. The rich kids would develop better social skills. Overall attendance would improve. There would be some kids graduating to matriculate at Ivies. And life goes on. A bunch of hand wringing over fear of other. That’s what I predict would happen.

The “rich and white kids” at Wilson already know the world is not rich and white. The people you are so eager to enlighten live in MD or VA or go to private school. I’m not saying Coolidge wouldn’t work if it were suddenly to have a large chunk moved from Wilson. But don’t pretend that it would be some great educational opportunity for the transferred kids.

The kids of AU Park and CCDC would benefit dramatically by getting out of their privilege bubble, trust me. If you have spent anytime with that demographic, it’s pretty clear.

Not disagreeing, but their families would just move to CCMD/NoVa/Bethesda if things change. Or are people here too young to remember white flight?

I think some may and not sure I care. Many won’t because commute times suck. There are many people who won’t be hostage to a commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First, I aware of studies that say it is not harmful to the high SES student, but I have never heard of a study that says it is beneficial for a high SES student to commute to a low SES high school. (And the former are questionable.)

So I would love to see one of the studies to which you referred.

Nonetheless, it wouldn’t change my view. It seems if it is beneficial to everyone to commingle Wilson, Roosevelt, and Coolidge students, then it would be a social injustice not to intermingle Roosevelt, Coolidge, Ballou, and Anacostia instead.

Translation: Show me data that refutes my preconceived notions. Wait, you actually have data? Well, f that. I'm gonna ignore the data because [word salad].

.

+1. What would be the bet benefit of commingling 4 HIGH poverty schools?

It would mean slightly higher scores for Roosevelt and Coolidge, if for arguments sake let’s say all the rich white kids attended. Slightly lower scores for Wilson. The lower income kids would improve slightly and the high income kids would improve slightly while also learning that not everyone is rich and white. The rich kids would develop better social skills. Overall attendance would improve. There would be some kids graduating to matriculate at Ivies. And life goes on. A bunch of hand wringing over fear of other. That’s what I predict would happen.

Hilarious that you think kids at Wilson and Wilson feeders don't know that everyone is not rich and white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First, I aware of studies that say it is not harmful to the high SES student, but I have never heard of a study that says it is beneficial for a high SES student to commute to a low SES high school. (And the former are questionable.)

So I would love to see one of the studies to which you referred.

Nonetheless, it wouldn’t change my view. It seems if it is beneficial to everyone to commingle Wilson, Roosevelt, and Coolidge students, then it would be a social injustice not to intermingle Roosevelt, Coolidge, Ballou, and Anacostia instead.

Translation: Show me data that refutes my preconceived notions. Wait, you actually have data? Well, f that. I'm gonna ignore the data because [word salad].

.

+1. What would be the bet benefit of commingling 4 HIGH poverty schools?

It would mean slightly higher scores for Roosevelt and Coolidge, if for arguments sake let’s say all the rich white kids attended. Slightly lower scores for Wilson. The lower income kids would improve slightly and the high income kids would improve slightly while also learning that not everyone is rich and white. The rich kids would develop better social skills. Overall attendance would improve. There would be some kids graduating to matriculate at Ivies. And life goes on. A bunch of hand wringing over fear of other. That’s what I predict would happen.

Why would the scores of the high SES improve?
Why would attendance improve?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First, I aware of studies that say it is not harmful to the high SES student, but I have never heard of a study that says it is beneficial for a high SES student to commute to a low SES high school. (And the former are questionable.)

So I would love to see one of the studies to which you referred.

Nonetheless, it wouldn’t change my view. It seems if it is beneficial to everyone to commingle Wilson, Roosevelt, and Coolidge students, then it would be a social injustice not to intermingle Roosevelt, Coolidge, Ballou, and Anacostia instead.

Translation: Show me data that refutes my preconceived notions. Wait, you actually have data? Well, f that. I'm gonna ignore the data because [word salad].

.

+1. What would be the bet benefit of commingling 4 HIGH poverty schools?

It would mean slightly higher scores for Roosevelt and Coolidge, if for arguments sake let’s say all the rich white kids attended. Slightly lower scores for Wilson. The lower income kids would improve slightly and the high income kids would improve slightly while also learning that not everyone is rich and white. The rich kids would develop better social skills. Overall attendance would improve. There would be some kids graduating to matriculate at Ivies. And life goes on. A bunch of hand wringing over fear of other. That’s what I predict would happen.

The “rich and white kids” at Wilson already know the world is not rich and white. The people you are so eager to enlighten live in MD or VA or go to private school. I’m not saying Coolidge wouldn’t work if it were suddenly to have a large chunk moved from Wilson. But don’t pretend that it would be some great educational opportunity for the transferred kids.

The kids of AU Park and CCDC would benefit dramatically by getting out of their privilege bubble, trust me. If you have spent anytime with that demographic, it’s pretty clear.

The kids of AU Park and CCDC who already attend Deal and Wilson know very well that there are people who are not rich and white.