Any updates on the DOE Investigation on discrimination case for magnet middle schools MCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But the BOE does, so why use peer cohort? You are just willfully ignoring what I posted about how the BOE stated that those schools with lots of low income kids are just as good as those with more higher income kids. That is what she said. I was there. If they really believed that, then they shouldn't be looking at peer cohort. If they do believe that, then it's clear why they look at peer cohort.

This is not about what parents believe. This is about what BOE has stated publicly and how they are engineering magnet admission so that students who live in certain areas are given preference over those who live in more affluent areas. That is biased. They should treat each individual students as individuals and not as a statistic.

By using peer cohort at the home middle school, they are treating each individual student as an individual.

By using test scores, you are treating each individual student as a statistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s absurd. It has become acceptable in the US to use racial slurs against Asian Americans and to discriminate against them.

Here in the US, it doesn’t matter if you are a South Indian immigrant kid with two wealthy doctor parents or if you are the child of a Cambodian refugee. You are all lumped together as Asian and that counts against you for college admissions. Or Magnet MS admissions, as is the case here in MCPS.

Are there many children of Cambodian refugees who live in Potomac?

I don’t know. Maybe?

There are some in NYC, which is what the PP was referring to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But the BOE does, so why use peer cohort? You are just willfully ignoring what I posted about how the BOE stated that those schools with lots of low income kids are just as good as those with more higher income kids. That is what she said. I was there. If they really believed that, then they shouldn't be looking at peer cohort. If they do believe that, then it's clear why they look at peer cohort.

This is not about what parents believe. This is about what BOE has stated publicly and how they are engineering magnet admission so that students who live in certain areas are given preference over those who live in more affluent areas. That is biased. They should treat each individual students as individuals and not as a statistic.

By using peer cohort at the home middle school, they are treating each individual student as an individual.

By using test scores, you are treating each individual student as a statistic.

That is completely contorted logic.

[Anonymous]

Why not dismantle the magnet programs altogether? Use the transportation savings to increase the rigor for all students.

[Anonymous]

It’s absurd. It has become acceptable in the US to use racial slurs against Asian Americans and to discriminate against them.

Here in the US, it doesn’t matter if you are a South Indian immigrant kid with two wealthy doctor parents or if you are the child of a Cambodian refugee. You are all lumped together as Asian and that counts against you for college admissions. Or Magnet MS admissions, as is the case here in MCPS.

I don't even know where to begin with this, except to say that being Asian is not counted against you in MS magnet admissions. Being in a highly segregated (by SES) neighborhood does mean you are compared against a different group of peers than an economically diverse neighborhood.

So, your hypothetical Cambodian refugee family? They don't live in an economically segregated neighborhood. They aren't zoned for Cold Spring or Hoover.

That kid is zoned for Colonel Lee, or Eastern MS, and therefore benefits from the new system because they aren't being judged against the South Asian immigrant kid with two wealthy doctor parents. They are being judged against the kid whose parents are refugees from Afghanistan and immigrants from El Salvador.

That hypothetical Cambodian kid you are so concerned about is exactly the kid this system was established to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s absurd. It has become acceptable in the US to use racial slurs against Asian Americans and to discriminate against them.

Here in the US, it doesn’t matter if you are a South Indian immigrant kid with two wealthy doctor parents or if you are the child of a Cambodian refugee. You are all lumped together as Asian and that counts against you for college admissions. Or Magnet MS admissions, as is the case here in MCPS.

Are there many children of Cambodian refugees who live in Potomac?

I don’t know. Maybe?

There are some in NYC, which is what the PP was referring to.

Maybe. But probably not. Because it costs a lot of money to live in Potomac. Which is why very few poor families live there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had kids go through TPMS magnet and Eastern magnet. My youngest was not offered magnet admission, but was offered enriched classes. These enriched classes are nothing like the magnet experience. My child at Eastern won a cspan documentary award for middle schoolers. My TPMS kid placed in the National Science Bowl. These are "prestigious" national level competitions that faculty advisors in the magnet programs are able to help kids compete in, and win. This is why people are mad.

My youngest kid's MS doesn't even offer mathcounts or significant academic after school programming.

I would expand the magnet program. I think they should rank kids by test scores in all ES's. Top 3% (or less if they need to) from each school gets a spot automatically in the magnet. The remainder of the seats go to the most qualified FARMS students based on test scores.

Am I the only person here who doesn't care about middle school competitions?

Oh, yeah. Probably. I will note that my non-magnet child wasn't even told those contests existed. That's fine--we don't chase trophies, we chase learning.

Not a “trophy “. These are programs providing highly gifted students with an appropriate education.
I think programs like TP and Eastern should be open to students solely based on academic merit. If there are kids who don’t do well enough on the application test but don’t have a large peer cohort they should be given preference for programs such as Parkland MS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But the BOE does, so why use peer cohort? You are just willfully ignoring what I posted about how the BOE stated that those schools with lots of low income kids are just as good as those with more higher income kids. That is what she said. I was there. If they really believed that, then they shouldn't be looking at peer cohort. If they do believe that, then it's clear why they look at peer cohort.

This is not about what parents believe. This is about what BOE has stated publicly and how they are engineering magnet admission so that students who live in certain areas are given preference over those who live in more affluent areas. That is biased. They should treat each individual students as individuals and not as a statistic.

By using peer cohort at the home middle school, they are treating each individual student as an individual.

By using test scores, you are treating each individual student as a statistic.

That is completely contorted logic.

+1 what mental gymnastic. If you look at each individual, and yes their test scores because even MCPS looks at all applicants' test scores, irrespective of what their peers scored or where they live, only then is one looking at the individual, and not as a statistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had kids go through TPMS magnet and Eastern magnet. My youngest was not offered magnet admission, but was offered enriched classes. These enriched classes are nothing like the magnet experience. My child at Eastern won a cspan documentary award for middle schoolers. My TPMS kid placed in the National Science Bowl. These are "prestigious" national level competitions that faculty advisors in the magnet programs are able to help kids compete in, and win. This is why people are mad.

My youngest kid's MS doesn't even offer mathcounts or significant academic after school programming.

I would expand the magnet program. I think they should rank kids by test scores in all ES's. Top 3% (or less if they need to) from each school gets a spot automatically in the magnet. The remainder of the seats go to the most qualified FARMS students based on test scores.

Am I the only person here who doesn't care about middle school competitions?

Oh, yeah. Probably. I will note that my non-magnet child wasn't even told those contests existed. That's fine--we don't chase trophies, we chase learning.

Not a “trophy “. These are programs providing highly gifted students with an appropriate education.
I think programs like TP and Eastern should be open to students solely based on academic merit. If there are kids who don’t do well enough on the application test but don’t have a large peer cohort they should be given preference for programs such as Parkland MS

+1 a student who scores much lower than those who have a peer cohort should have an enriched curriculum. The students who score very high should have the more challenging curriculum. That is logical. The student who scores lower is not the one in dire need of a very challenging curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It’s absurd. It has become acceptable in the US to use racial slurs against Asian Americans and to discriminate against them.

Here in the US, it doesn’t matter if you are a South Indian immigrant kid with two wealthy doctor parents or if you are the child of a Cambodian refugee. You are all lumped together as Asian and that counts against you for college admissions. Or Magnet MS admissions, as is the case here in MCPS.

I don't even know where to begin with this, except to say that being Asian is not counted against you in MS magnet admissions. Being in a highly segregated (by SES) neighborhood does mean you are compared against a different group of peers than an economically diverse neighborhood.

So, your hypothetical Cambodian refugee family? They don't live in an economically segregated neighborhood. They aren't zoned for Cold Spring or Hoover.

That kid is zoned for Colonel Lee, or Eastern MS, and therefore benefits from the new system because they aren't being judged against the South Asian immigrant kid with two wealthy doctor parents. They are being judged against the kid whose parents are refugees from Afghanistan and immigrants from El Salvador.

That hypothetical Cambodian kid you are so concerned about is exactly the kid this system was established to help.

DP.. there are poor kids in the W cluster. Sure, they are small, but they exist. Check out Scotland area in Churchill cluster. These lower income kids are being lumped in with wealthy kids in terms of "peer cohort".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s absurd. It has become acceptable in the US to use racial slurs against Asian Americans and to discriminate against them.

Here in the US, it doesn’t matter if you are a South Indian immigrant kid with two wealthy doctor parents or if you are the child of a Cambodian refugee. You are all lumped together as Asian and that counts against you for college admissions. Or Magnet MS admissions, as is the case here in MCPS.

I don't even know where to begin with this, except to say that being Asian is not counted against you in MS magnet admissions. Being in a highly segregated (by SES) neighborhood does mean you are compared against a different group of peers than an economically diverse neighborhood.

So, your hypothetical Cambodian refugee family? They don't live in an economically segregated neighborhood. They aren't zoned for Cold Spring or Hoover.

That kid is zoned for Colonel Lee, or Eastern MS, and therefore benefits from the new system because they aren't being judged against the South Asian immigrant kid with two wealthy doctor parents. They are being judged against the kid whose parents are refugees from Afghanistan and immigrants from El Salvador.

That hypothetical Cambodian kid you are so concerned about is exactly the kid this system was established to help.

DP.. there are poor kids in the W cluster. Sure, they are small, but they exist. Check out Scotland area in Churchill cluster. These lower income kids are being lumped in with wealthy kids in terms of "peer cohort".

But not in terms of FARMS status. So you don't need to be concerned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
+1 what mental gymnastic. If you look at each individual, and yes their test scores because even MCPS looks at all applicants' test scores, irrespective of what their peers scored or where they live, only then is one looking at the individual, and not as a statistic.

The idea of looking at test scores and saying you're looking at an individual....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s absurd. It has become acceptable in the US to use racial slurs against Asian Americans and to discriminate against them.

Here in the US, it doesn’t matter if you are a South Indian immigrant kid with two wealthy doctor parents or if you are the child of a Cambodian refugee. You are all lumped together as Asian and that counts against you for college admissions. Or Magnet MS admissions, as is the case here in MCPS.

I don't even know where to begin with this, except to say that being Asian is not counted against you in MS magnet admissions. Being in a highly segregated (by SES) neighborhood does mean you are compared against a different group of peers than an economically diverse neighborhood.

So, your hypothetical Cambodian refugee family? They don't live in an economically segregated neighborhood. They aren't zoned for Cold Spring or Hoover.

That kid is zoned for Colonel Lee, or Eastern MS, and therefore benefits from the new system because they aren't being judged against the South Asian immigrant kid with two wealthy doctor parents. They are being judged against the kid whose parents are refugees from Afghanistan and immigrants from El Salvador.

That hypothetical Cambodian kid you are so concerned about is exactly the kid this system was established to help.

DP.. there are poor kids in the W cluster. Sure, they are small, but they exist. Check out Scotland area in Churchill cluster. These lower income kids are being lumped in with wealthy kids in terms of "peer cohort".

But not in terms of FARMS status. So you don't need to be concerned.

They are looking at "peer cohort" in terms of academics, not how many poor kids are in the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1 what mental gymnastic. If you look at each individual, and yes their test scores because even MCPS looks at all applicants' test scores, irrespective of what their peers scored or where they live, only then is one looking at the individual, and not as a statistic.

The idea of looking at test scores and saying you're looking at an individual....

Then why does MCPS look at test scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly, everyone who posts acts on cohort for their decision making, and then wants to pretend it's insignificant when MCPS does the same.

People sort themselves when they fear their kid will not be the top student. It's better to be a mediocre student at top school, because when the student's not self-motivated the surrounding students become all important (at least that's the fearful parent logic). But this is exactly why the cohort model makes sense. The students who rise to the very top in each setting are the ones to watch, and the ones who might find a magnet transformative. The next 30 best kids may be very good at a high SES school, but they're already punching above their weight, because of their cohort--which was bought and paid for by their parents.

A parent makes decisions that is best for their own child.

MCPS needs to make decisions that is best for ALL the children. Here, we have MCPS only concerned about certain groups, hence "peer cohort".

That's the difference.

Which is exactly why they (1) added the cohort factor and (2) added the new enriched classes in the home middle schools.

1. the enriched classes are a joke. If they are so great, they should put it in the "magnet" with the lower scoring kids, and move the more challenging magnet curriculum to a school that has WAY MORE higher scoring students. That would be serving ALL children.

2. adding peer cohort doesn't serve ALL students. It only serves those who live in a school cluster with a small higher performing student body, and statistically who don't score as high as those left at the home school with a joke of "enriched" classes. These kids score way higher than those who got into the magnet purely because of peer cohort, and it is highly insulting to those students who were not admitted.

Does that mean that you think peer cohort is okay for the 3-4 students at a high FARMs Downcounty ES, but damaging for the 25 at a school in Potomac?