What's the best way to prepare for language immersion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, ethnic Chinese have deep problems with racism that go unaddressed - they would never voluntarily enroll in any school like YY which has to serve AA and Hispanic students.

+1. YY bashers never, ever address this.

Neither would I voluntarily enroll in any school that purports to be a 50% Chinese immersion program but primarily serves AA and Hispanic students. No way. Too stupid.

When you say “too stupid” are you referring to black and Hispanic students?

[Anonymous]

"Okay, we're racists! Stop learning our language, you stupid black and Latino families!"

At least it's finally out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, ethnic Chinese have deep problems with racism that go unaddressed - they would never voluntarily enroll in any school like YY which has to serve AA and Hispanic students.

+1. YY bashers never, ever address this.

Neither would I voluntarily enroll in any school that purports to be a 50% Chinese immersion program but primarily serves AA and Hispanic students. No way. Too stupid.

When you say “too stupid” are you referring to black and Hispanic students?

Get a life. My read of the above post is that it's ridiculous to think in terms of running any given Chinese immersion program where most students are AA or Hispanic. Some of these kids in America in 2019, sure, but not most. A good cohort of Chinese speakers is obviously needed to keep language and cultural studies from being a flop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Okay, we're racists! Stop learning our language, you stupid black and Latino families!"

At least it's finally out there.

You said it, hon, not anybody else.

[Anonymous]

Low-income kids whose families don't speak target languages don't belong in immersion programs absent all kinds of pricey special support. They simply don't.

My sister sends her children to a Chinese immersion program in MoCo where low-income students attend a month-long summer immersion camp for free. If the kids don't attend the camp,and can't pass a spoken Chinese evaluation test when they return to school in the fall, they're counseled out of the program. Poor kids also given hundreds of dollars worth of technology to access Mandarin education programs and entertainment for kids, and gratis and a great deal of after-school tutoring in Chinese.

No point in pretending that most of the low SES kids (and high SES kids whose parents don't care to splash out to supplement) can learn to speak Chinese without these kind of inputs. YY merely pretends and it hurts the kids.

[Anonymous]

"Keep those low-income kids out of Chinese immersion programs."

Keep them coming, heritage racists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Okay, we're racists! Stop learning our language, you stupid black and Latino families!"

At least it's finally out there.

More foolishness....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ If only the world worked like this. Not even in the program yet and already drinking the Kool-aid.

Check back with us 7 or 8 years from now.

How about you pull back from the wine bottle, and pay your children and husband some attention! Oops, my bad... that's why you have your au pair.

Check back with me 7 or 8 years from now, after your husband has left you and started a new family with your au pair!

***sips blue raspberry lemonade Kool-aid*** it's my favorite kind!!

Not at YY, new poster, no dog in this fight-

While I understand that a lot of these YY posts are pretty hostile, I think it is important to note that a lot of parents have magical thinking when it comes to immersion. It would also benefit everyone to have a close connection with families who have native level proficiency.

I understand that it easy to say that those with au pairs are privileged, which is true, but it is equally true that the school isn’t going to magically turn your monolingual child into a multilingual child without some really hard work and sacrifices on your part. We save as much as we can to travel to Spanish speaking places (at a Spanish immersion school) and really put significant effort to maximize Spanish speaking situations (camps, tutors, enrichment, etc) and we are a Spanish speaking family!

If you’re not willing to do anything outside of the minimum, I’m sorry but the chances of your child actually speaking the target language are really low.

Great post, PP. Really low is right (not that many immersion parents mind). To my mind, most of the critical posts on this particular thread haven't been "hostile" as much as inconveniently incisive.

You're right that magical thinking is sadly pervasive in the world of DC public charter immersion. When parents insist that they don't need a close connection with families who have a native level proficiency during the years of immersion, or regular childcare providers who speak the target language either, the joke is on the immersion students who don't speak the target language at home.

In our several years of recent experience with an immersion program, the hard work and sacrifices are mostly lacking in these DC charter programs. You meet many families with the resources to provide the necessary language inputs who don't bother. You see more of what it takes at Oyster.

I wouldn’t hold oyster up as an example, sorry. They’re a mess and don’t do a good job teaching grammar.

Too bad you your child didn’t get into Oyster OOB, and you can’t afford to live IB. Oyster is a national model for dual immersion language schools. Full stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Okay, we're racists! Stop learning our language, you stupid black and Latino families!"

At least it's finally out there.

And you stupid white familes as well!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Low-income kids whose families don't speak target languages don't belong in immersion programs absent all kinds of pricey special support. They simply don't.

My sister sends her children to a Chinese immersion program in MoCo where low-income students attend a month-long summer immersion camp for free. If the kids don't attend the camp,and can't pass a spoken Chinese evaluation test when they return to school in the fall, they're counseled out of the program. Poor kids also given hundreds of dollars worth of technology to access Mandarin education programs and entertainment for kids, and gratis and a great deal of after-school tutoring in Chinese.

No point in pretending that most of the low SES kids (and high SES kids whose parents don't care to splash out to supplement) can learn to speak Chinese without these kind of inputs. YY merely pretends and it hurts the kids.

There is some truth to this. This is why I think many language immersion programs in DCPS and charters tend to attract more middle class families who don’t speak the target language vs. the same lower income families.

The low income families who don’t speak the target language I think also tend to realize this. They are probably more focused on their child just doing well in the traditional curriculum, not a more challenging dual language one.

[Anonymous]

I wish that we had MoCo type supports for poor kids whose families really want language immersion, along with significantly higher standards for speaking languages for everybody and many more native speakers to model the languages and cultures taught.

There are ways and ways to get there if the political will exists.

DC immersion programs should change with the times. Pouring vast sums into renovations of half empty DCPS buildings then crying poor for creative program support just isn't a great investment in our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Keep those low-income kids out of Chinese immersion programs."

Keep them coming, heritage racists.

Not any kind of heritage type, racist or not. This white lady only speaks English.

Better yet, keep well-meaning but muddle-headed school system planners from duping low and moderate SES families into believing that their kids can learn to speak languages without supplementing extensively and expensively. Teach them that language exposure at the expense of 50% of instruction in English throughout elementary school is crap.

Pony up to provide families of modest means with the support they need for success, and maintain high standards for learning to speak languages.

Alternatively, have the good grace to educate parents of modest means about how immersion programs without big cohorts of native speakers aren't good for their children.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the concern, really, but YY kids are fine. They can all read and write, and many are conversant in Chinese by the time they graduate. There are many international families who speak other languages at home, who know a thing or two about language acquisition and still choose YY. Come by at pickup and you will hear French, Italian, Russian, Amharic, Japanese and more. They are not all crazy or delusional negligent parents.

All YY graduates that we know (we've had three kids there so quite a few) have gone on to do well at DCI, private schools, and other middle and high schools in DC and the suburbs. It's okay. Peace out, folks.

[Anonymous]

Regardless of all of this I still think the best non-heritage speakers of any language are kids who at elementary age determine, for some reason, that they love learning another language and are really really into it, and concomitantly have a talent for it, particularly in the target language, whether that is Russian, Thai, Amharic, or Spanish. Those kids will almost certainly thrive in a dual language school.

Those who aren't like this and don't speak the target language regularly - good luck really getting anywhere, barring a very strong structure that boxes you into learning the language or failing to communicate or learn, like moving to the country where the target language is spoken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Keep those low-income kids out of Chinese immersion programs."

Keep them coming, heritage racists.

Not any kind of heritage type, racist or not. This white lady only speaks English.

Better yet, keep well-meaning but muddle-headed school system planners from duping low and moderate SES families into believing that their kids can learn to speak languages without supplementing extensively and expensively. Teach them that language exposure at the expense of 50% of instruction in English throughout elementary school is crap.

Pony up to provide families of modest means with the support they need for success, and maintain high standards for learning to speak languages.

Alternatively, have the good grace to educate parents of modest means about how immersion programs without big cohorts of native speakers aren't good for their children.

What do you mean “aren’t good for children?” For many families, especially those of modest means, YY is far superior than the alternative; many IBs have abysmal test scores and concentrated poverty. I’d wager that overall outcomes for these families are far superior at popular language immersion schools than at their IB.