Leaving DC for a lower COL area

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"3. Most people seem to have their set friendships from when they were younger, in college, etc. Hard for transplants to break into social scene. Most of my friends are not from the city I now live in (all transplants like me). "

This is the hardest thing my sisters or I have found about leaving this area for another new one. We always took for granted new people coming in or out of a social scene, in our native Northern VA. We have not found it to be so in (the various other places any of us have lived): Chicago (mostly everyone is from SOMEwhere in the Midwest); Indianapolis; Philly/S. Jersey; Greenville, SC. One of us has lived off and on in London, though; we found that equally easy to meet new people who were OPEN to meeting new people.

+1. When you move to a smaller area where everyone has lived all their lives, it can be tough. My friend just moved to a medium-sized midwestern city for work. They are finding it hard to break into social circles because everyone is born and raised in the area, and there are few transplants from other places.

This is part of why I prefer larger cities with lots of transplants--there are more opportunities for getting to know people when everyone's from somewhere else.

PP who moved to Norfolk here. We didn't know anyone in the area and have made a ton of friends. Only one of them grew up here - everyone else is transplants. (Of our friends, I mean, obviously not the entire population). Being in a military city means lots of people coming and going, or lots of people settling here from other places due to work.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Perhaps upstate NY truly is cheaper, but be careful about assuming YOUR costs will be cheaper. I come from a western state that ostensibly is cheaper, but when I look at houses (neighborhoods) I would want to live in, the home cost is the same as here. Restaurants (decent, nothing fancy) are more expensive. Property taxes are less. Etc. We will probably retire out there, but not counting on it being cheaper.

Very valid point. I romanticized about moving out west, to Bozeman, MT, and when I looked at real estate prices, I realized it's really not that much cheaper. But where I'm from in upstate NY, I could get a nice house in a great school district for less than $200,000. I know that plenty of places are more expensive, but....200k! That's a downpayment around here.

There is also something to be said about a slower pace of life and not dealing with all of the BS that comes with our super Type A community in DC. I don't know if I can put a price on that.

+1. A lot of people on this forum seem to not realize that real estate prices have climbed in many other parts of the country. It’s like they think real estate is what it was when they were growing up. Even looking at my childhood home I was shocked how much it costs now.

You can probably find a less expensive house but for real estate to truly be MUCH cheaper means the job market in that area is limited and there is limited money to push up real estate prices. Also don’t discount moving from an area with public transportation to one where people have multiple cars per family. When driving around MCOL areas I’m always shocked at how most of the cars are new and fancy. It’s like instead of spending more on real estate they spend it on cars.

All, well, most areas have seen prices go up. It's called inflation. House prices probably doubled, on average, between 1999 and 2019. But they also did the same thing between 1979 and 1999. Actually, even more. My parents bought their house in a provincial city that's not one of the "hot" cities for 52k in 1976, sold it for 208k in 1994, bought another house for 300k and just sold that house for 650k. It's inflation. It's an upper middle class suburb with good schools.

Some cities (not all, but some) have seen higher than average real estate price increases. But the vast majority of the country remains much more affordable than DC.

^ totally this! I find it so weird how fatalistic people seem about living in DC - like they may as well not even explore other options because surely every place will have the same downsides and so why even bother.

there's a lot of nice places to live. lots cheaper than DC. DC is nice too but expensive.

Because JOBS

There are JOBS in other places. We have a sub 4% unemployment and a booming upper middle class across most American cities.

I think a lot of people get trapped into DC because of the artificially higher salaries paying 25-40% more for the same role than in, say, Atlanta or Minneapolis and are afraid to take bite the bullet and readjust to a lower salary even with a lower cost of living offsetting it.

I lived in a MCOL city like Atlanta. I’m not convinced it’s that much cheaper. A lot of these MCOL cities have a lifestyle of nicer cars, more travel, more furniture for your larger house, a SAHM etc.

If I moved to a MCOL city I’d make around 40 percent less and would have fewer job opportunities in the future. But I would probably only save 20-30 percent in living expenses.

However, we are close to 500k HHI and can afford to live well in DC. I think it may be a very different equation for someone making 150k HHI. I assume they are already out in the exurbs and moving to a city like Atlanta would only improve their quality of life.

Probably true. If you're in the 400-500k bracket then in Atlanta you'd be looking at Buckhead and similar, with a high cost of living. You'd save money at cheaper private school tuition, and maybe get a bigger house for your money, but car costs are the same, travel costs the same, daily expenditures are the same, so your net savings improvement isn't going to be that much.

But it's a very different story for the sub 200k incomes. And that's most people.

+1.

I do think there are a lot of dual income 300k HHIs on this forum where it’s suggested they move to a LCOL/MCOL city since real estate is so much cheaper. Problem I see is that I’m still not convinced for this income bracket it makes sense. You’re significantly limiting your career to take a lower salary with slightly lower expenses.

We're a $400K+ dual HHI and we moved mostly to get out of the DC commute issue. One of us commuted west, the other east, and it took way too much of our time. Given our job locations, there wasn't much we could do about it, but we found a city in which we could both work. So while we still live in an expensive house and send our kids to private school and are buying a new car for the same price we'd pay in DC, our quality of life has nonetheless been impacted dramatically because we have so much more time with shorter commutes. It's also just a different pace of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"3. Most people seem to have their set friendships from when they were younger, in college, etc. Hard for transplants to break into social scene. Most of my friends are not from the city I now live in (all transplants like me). "

This is the hardest thing my sisters or I have found about leaving this area for another new one. We always took for granted new people coming in or out of a social scene, in our native Northern VA. We have not found it to be so in (the various other places any of us have lived): Chicago (mostly everyone is from SOMEwhere in the Midwest); Indianapolis; Philly/S. Jersey; Greenville, SC. One of us has lived off and on in London, though; we found that equally easy to meet new people who were OPEN to meeting new people.

+1. When you move to a smaller area where everyone has lived all their lives, it can be tough. My friend just moved to a medium-sized midwestern city for work. They are finding it hard to break into social circles because everyone is born and raised in the area, and there are few transplants from other places.

This is part of why I prefer larger cities with lots of transplants--there are more opportunities for getting to know people when everyone's from somewhere else.

PP who moved to Norfolk here. We didn't know anyone in the area and have made a ton of friends. Only one of them grew up here - everyone else is transplants. (Of our friends, I mean, obviously not the entire population). Being in a military city means lots of people coming and going, or lots of people settling here from other places due to work.

PP here. I grew up in the Tidewater area. Growing up, I didn't meet many people from outside of the area, and everyone I grew up with is still there. However, if you're on the water in a nice part of Norfolk (or in that new, affluent part of Suffolk near Lockheed Martin), your experience may differ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"3. Most people seem to have their set friendships from when they were younger, in college, etc. Hard for transplants to break into social scene. Most of my friends are not from the city I now live in (all transplants like me). "

This is the hardest thing my sisters or I have found about leaving this area for another new one. We always took for granted new people coming in or out of a social scene, in our native Northern VA. We have not found it to be so in (the various other places any of us have lived): Chicago (mostly everyone is from SOMEwhere in the Midwest); Indianapolis; Philly/S. Jersey; Greenville, SC. One of us has lived off and on in London, though; we found that equally easy to meet new people who were OPEN to meeting new people.

+1. When you move to a smaller area where everyone has lived all their lives, it can be tough. My friend just moved to a medium-sized midwestern city for work. They are finding it hard to break into social circles because everyone is born and raised in the area, and there are few transplants from other places.

This is part of why I prefer larger cities with lots of transplants--there are more opportunities for getting to know people when everyone's from somewhere else.

PP who moved to Norfolk here. We didn't know anyone in the area and have made a ton of friends. Only one of them grew up here - everyone else is transplants. (Of our friends, I mean, obviously not the entire population). Being in a military city means lots of people coming and going, or lots of people settling here from other places due to work.

PP here. I grew up in the Tidewater area. Growing up, I didn't meet many people from outside of the area, and everyone I grew up with is still there. However, if you're on the water in a nice part of Norfolk (or in that new, affluent part of Suffolk near Lockheed Martin), your experience may differ.

I agree that Norfolk can be a mixed bag. We are so fortunate to have found the neighborhood we ended up in. For whatever reason that and my kids' school seems to attract a lot of transplants, many of them military. There are parts of Norfolk I wouldn't want to live in, but we found a nice spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"3. Most people seem to have their set friendships from when they were younger, in college, etc. Hard for transplants to break into social scene. Most of my friends are not from the city I now live in (all transplants like me). "

This is the hardest thing my sisters or I have found about leaving this area for another new one. We always took for granted new people coming in or out of a social scene, in our native Northern VA. We have not found it to be so in (the various other places any of us have lived): Chicago (mostly everyone is from SOMEwhere in the Midwest); Indianapolis; Philly/S. Jersey; Greenville, SC. One of us has lived off and on in London, though; we found that equally easy to meet new people who were OPEN to meeting new people.

+1. When you move to a smaller area where everyone has lived all their lives, it can be tough. My friend just moved to a medium-sized midwestern city for work. They are finding it hard to break into social circles because everyone is born and raised in the area, and there are few transplants from other places.

This is part of why I prefer larger cities with lots of transplants--there are more opportunities for getting to know people when everyone's from somewhere else.

PP who moved to Norfolk here. We didn't know anyone in the area and have made a ton of friends. Only one of them grew up here - everyone else is transplants. (Of our friends, I mean, obviously not the entire population). Being in a military city means lots of people coming and going, or lots of people settling here from other places due to work.

PP here. I grew up in the Tidewater area. Growing up, I didn't meet many people from outside of the area, and everyone I grew up with is still there. However, if you're on the water in a nice part of Norfolk (or in that new, affluent part of Suffolk near Lockheed Martin), your experience may differ.

I agree that Norfolk can be a mixed bag. We are so fortunate to have found the neighborhood we ended up in. For whatever reason that and my kids' school seems to attract a lot of transplants, many of them military. There are parts of Norfolk I wouldn't want to live in, but we found a nice spot.

PP. Yes, while I was growing up, Norfolk was considered pretty rough! However, I don't know anyone who lived in the nicer parts (e.g., Ghent, on the water).

[Anonymous]

We are super happy after moving to Chicago. Friends have moved to Pittsburgh, Detroit, Cleveland, Denver, and Charlottesville, all for similar reasons, and all seem to have more balance.

These are all pretty cosmopolitan places with great restaurant scenes, theater and music, and a healthier (IMO) approach to work/life. Some of my friends in Chicago may pull the same or longer hours than we saw as lawyers in DC, but it's not revered in the same way here.

I really do miss DC, even though I never thought I would, but am glad we made the move.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone looked into North Carolina? Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill are all pretty liberal due to the universities and lots of jobs due to research triangle (even government). I've heard the schools are really good in surburbs like Cary. Charlottesville, VA isn't as big as Raleigh/Durham area but has great restaurants and cool life vibe. Also liberal (ish) due to university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you done it?

We are strongly considering it over the course of the next five years. We have to make it work with careers, of course, but if we can, we'd like to head back to upstate NY to be closer to family and to be in a lower COL area.

We didn't get on the property ladder when we should have and now are still renting while paying for childcare, saving for college, and saving for retirement. We simply cannot afford a home in the city that would guarantee good school options through high school. We hate the thought of long commutes and what that will mean for spending time with our kids. DC is increasingly expensive and we think we can have a better quality of life elsewhere. BUT I am sure I am romanticizing, and there are likely plenty of factors I am not considering. So, have you done it? Have you left for a lower COL area, and if so, what have been the pros and cons?

Some friends move to CO, Denver I think, and they love it.

Denver is nice, but mountains are almost inaccessible b/c of weekend traffic, and you are pretty isolated out there in the plains. And it’s no longer much cheaper. If you moved there 10 years ago, you would be golden!

+1, it's very expensive now, and the traffic is horrible. Also DC types would probably be bored by the fleece-wearing outdoorsy types.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone who posts on here so cagey about the cities they are talking about? "I live in a west Florida city. I'm thinking down South. I looked at a cheaper state out west".

How is this helpful? Why not just say Nashville, Missoula, Bumf*ck, whatever?

Because they don't want more people from DC moving there?

[Anonymous]

I've had friends who have moved from DC to the following and are so happy:

Nashville, TN
Denver, CO (although they don't have kids)
Louisville, KY
Redlands, CA
Jacksonville, FL (two people, actually)
Annapolis, MD (and not commuting to DC)

Some of those cities are where they are from or had family in, others were just moves to get away from DC and somewhere they found jobs.

There's a whole wide world out there, OP (or country, as the case may be). We've left DC and are so grateful every day that we did!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've had friends who have moved from DC to the following and are so happy:

Nashville, TN
Denver, CO (although they don't have kids)
Louisville, KY
Redlands, CA
Jacksonville, FL (two people, actually)
Annapolis, MD (and not commuting to DC)

Some of those cities are where they are from or had family in, others were just moves to get away from DC and somewhere they found jobs.

There's a whole wide world out there, OP (or country, as the case may be). We've left DC and are so grateful every day that we did!

But why are you on a DC website? I left another city for DC and don’t have any interest in websites for that city. It barely crosses my mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had friends who have moved from DC to the following and are so happy:

Nashville, TN
Denver, CO (although they don't have kids)
Louisville, KY
Redlands, CA
Jacksonville, FL (two people, actually)
Annapolis, MD (and not commuting to DC)

Some of those cities are where they are from or had family in, others were just moves to get away from DC and somewhere they found jobs.

There's a whole wide world out there, OP (or country, as the case may be). We've left DC and are so grateful every day that we did!

But why are you on a DC website? I left another city for DC and don’t have any interest in websites for that city. It barely crosses my mind.

Not PP but this is a great website where you can get a lot of information and advice, and it’s fun to keep up. No harm no foul.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had friends who have moved from DC to the following and are so happy:

Nashville, TN
Denver, CO (although they don't have kids)
Louisville, KY
Redlands, CA
Jacksonville, FL (two people, actually)
Annapolis, MD (and not commuting to DC)

Some of those cities are where they are from or had family in, others were just moves to get away from DC and somewhere they found jobs.

There's a whole wide world out there, OP (or country, as the case may be). We've left DC and are so grateful every day that we did!

But why are you on a DC website? I left another city for DC and don’t have any interest in websites for that city. It barely crosses my mind.

Not PP but this is a great website where you can get a lot of information and advice, and it’s fun to keep up. No harm no foul.

I left DC 2 years ago and still come to this site for advice. There's nothing like it in my new city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've had friends who have moved from DC to the following and are so happy:

Nashville, TN
Denver, CO (although they don't have kids)
Louisville, KY
Redlands, CA
Jacksonville, FL (two people, actually)
Annapolis, MD (and not commuting to DC)

Some of those cities are where they are from or had family in, others were just moves to get away from DC and somewhere they found jobs.

There's a whole wide world out there, OP (or country, as the case may be). We've left DC and are so grateful every day that we did!

Redlands is, categorically, awful. But that's true for all of Riverside/San Bernardino. I hope they are not the 'extreme commuters' you hear about. What an awful life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had friends who have moved from DC to the following and are so happy:

Nashville, TN
Denver, CO (although they don't have kids)
Louisville, KY
Redlands, CA
Jacksonville, FL (two people, actually)
Annapolis, MD (and not commuting to DC)

Some of those cities are where they are from or had family in, others were just moves to get away from DC and somewhere they found jobs.

There's a whole wide world out there, OP (or country, as the case may be). We've left DC and are so grateful every day that we did!

But why are you on a DC website? I left another city for DC and don’t have any interest in websites for that city. It barely crosses my mind.

Not PP but this is a great website where you can get a lot of information and advice, and it’s fun to keep up. No harm no foul.

I left DC 2 years ago and still come to this site for advice. There's nothing like it in my new city.

I am PP and these two people beat me to it. I actually rarely look at anything on DCUM that is DC-centric, but I happened to be searching for a post I had seen about another city and this one popped up so I opined. I can't believe you bothered to write your post - why do you care if people who have moved from DC are on here. We are literally the people who could answer OP's post.