Would you get an amnio? Ambiguous genitalia at 20 week US

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the update, OP. Best wishes to you.

[Anonymous]

I'm glad you are starting to get answers. What are you most worried about now? Maybe someone here has experience and can help you out...

[Anonymous]

Good luck OP, I am thinking of you.

[Anonymous]

OP I know this is all very new (and that CHA has health issues apart from the gender issues) but I wonder if you'd be helped by reading about intersex and gender issues in general. The fact is, gender in the animal kingdom (including humans) has never really been wholly binary! In many ways your child (if they are CAH) is extremely lucky to be born today, when we know so much more about gender differences and are more accepting. I can understand it's a shock, but it's going to be OK and will open your mind to a whole new world of information and ways of seeing categories that you formerly thought were entirely fixed.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the update, OP. I'll keep thinking of you and sending all my best, and hoping the waiting game ends for you soon. Take good care and hang in there.

[Anonymous]

Thinking of you, OP, and hoping you can find some calm and some peace along with some answers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I know this is all very new (and that CHA has health issues apart from the gender issues) but I wonder if you'd be helped by reading about intersex and gender issues in general. The fact is, gender in the animal kingdom (including humans) has never really been wholly binary! In many ways your child (if they are CAH) is extremely lucky to be born today, when we know so much more about gender differences and are more accepting. I can understand it's a shock, but it's going to be OK and will open your mind to a whole new world of information and ways of seeing categories that you formerly thought were entirely fixed.

I've been doing a good bit of this, and it's been helpful and enlightening to some extent - I've certainly learned a lot about all the different ways people's development can and does diverge from what we consider the binary "norm." Even as a pretty progressive and well-educated person, I've had my eyes opened to a lot. On the other hand though, I've also encountered a lot of very fraught debate about the right way to raise a child who has a condition like this, arguments about whether corrective surgery is reasonable or beneficial or selfish or barbaric, and wading into those issues knowing I'll have decisions to make about those things in the future is what's contributing to a lot of my stress. It'd be helpful for me to hear from other parents on DCUM who've confronted those kinds of questions, or similar ones, but I know there may not be any folks like that since these conditions are somewhat rare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I know this is all very new (and that CHA has health issues apart from the gender issues) but I wonder if you'd be helped by reading about intersex and gender issues in general. The fact is, gender in the animal kingdom (including humans) has never really been wholly binary! In many ways your child (if they are CAH) is extremely lucky to be born today, when we know so much more about gender differences and are more accepting. I can understand it's a shock, but it's going to be OK and will open your mind to a whole new world of information and ways of seeing categories that you formerly thought were entirely fixed.

I've been doing a good bit of this, and it's been helpful and enlightening to some extent - I've certainly learned a lot about all the different ways people's development can and does diverge from what we consider the binary "norm." Even as a pretty progressive and well-educated person, I've had my eyes opened to a lot. On the other hand though, I've also encountered a lot of very fraught debate about the right way to raise a child who has a condition like this, arguments about whether corrective surgery is reasonable or beneficial or selfish or barbaric, and wading into those issues knowing I'll have decisions to make about those things in the future is what's contributing to a lot of my stress. It'd be helpful for me to hear from other parents on DCUM who've confronted those kinds of questions, or similar ones, but I know there may not be any folks like that since these conditions are somewhat rare.

But isn't the baby genetically a female with just enlarged genitalia? It does sound stressful for you at this point but fully treatable once baby comes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I know this is all very new (and that CHA has health issues apart from the gender issues) but I wonder if you'd be helped by reading about intersex and gender issues in general. The fact is, gender in the animal kingdom (including humans) has never really been wholly binary! In many ways your child (if they are CAH) is extremely lucky to be born today, when we know so much more about gender differences and are more accepting. I can understand it's a shock, but it's going to be OK and will open your mind to a whole new world of information and ways of seeing categories that you formerly thought were entirely fixed.

I've been doing a good bit of this, and it's been helpful and enlightening to some extent - I've certainly learned a lot about all the different ways people's development can and does diverge from what we consider the binary "norm." Even as a pretty progressive and well-educated person, I've had my eyes opened to a lot. On the other hand though, I've also encountered a lot of very fraught debate about the right way to raise a child who has a condition like this, arguments about whether corrective surgery is reasonable or beneficial or selfish or barbaric, and wading into those issues knowing I'll have decisions to make about those things in the future is what's contributing to a lot of my stress. It'd be helpful for me to hear from other parents on DCUM who've confronted those kinds of questions, or similar ones, but I know there may not be any folks like that since these conditions are somewhat rare.

But isn't the baby genetically a female with just enlarged genitalia? It does sound stressful for you at this point but fully treatable once baby comes.

Genetically female, yes, but girls who've been exposed to androgens ("male" hormones) in utero and have virilized genitalia can be more than just "enlarged" - depending on the severity, we could be talking about someone with fused labia, no vaginal opening separate from the urethra, a clitoris that more resembles a penis, and so on. We won't know the extent of it until she's born. And while those issues can be "corrected" surgically in infancy, that's not without risks like the potential need for additional surgeries or impaired/diminished sexual enjoyment/function. So the debate is around whether or not to undertake these kinds of surgical procedures before the child can decide for herself. I won't bore everyone with typing out the argument manifestos on both sides, but suffice it to say there's no clear consensus right thing to do here, and I'm very worried about screwing things up for this little girl no matter what we decide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I know this is all very new (and that CHA has health issues apart from the gender issues) but I wonder if you'd be helped by reading about intersex and gender issues in general. The fact is, gender in the animal kingdom (including humans) has never really been wholly binary! In many ways your child (if they are CAH) is extremely lucky to be born today, when we know so much more about gender differences and are more accepting. I can understand it's a shock, but it's going to be OK and will open your mind to a whole new world of information and ways of seeing categories that you formerly thought were entirely fixed.

I've been doing a good bit of this, and it's been helpful and enlightening to some extent - I've certainly learned a lot about all the different ways people's development can and does diverge from what we consider the binary "norm." Even as a pretty progressive and well-educated person, I've had my eyes opened to a lot. On the other hand though, I've also encountered a lot of very fraught debate about the right way to raise a child who has a condition like this, arguments about whether corrective surgery is reasonable or beneficial or selfish or barbaric, and wading into those issues knowing I'll have decisions to make about those things in the future is what's contributing to a lot of my stress. It'd be helpful for me to hear from other parents on DCUM who've confronted those kinds of questions, or similar ones, but I know there may not be any folks like that since these conditions are somewhat rare.

I'm dealing with a different condition in my kid, but somewhat parallels in that it makes him different, but not different in a way that necessarily requires intervention (aw, will just spell it out: it's high-functioning autism). One thing that has helped so much is to read blogs and articles by adults with autism to understand how the view the world and things that grown-ups did to "help" them, some of which were perceived as abusive and harsh (like trying to force kids not to move their hands so as not to appear different). I suggest you do the same for intersex people -- read what they have to say about themselves. And yeah, it is certainly eye-opening to learn more about gender. Interesting tidbit is that Dr. Kinsey, who did ground-breaking work in the varieties of adult sexuality, started out as a biologist studying insect morphology -- he realized that humans, like the rest of the natural world, vary in may aspects and cannot be fitted into binaries. https://nature.berkeley.edu/blackmanlab/Blackman_Lab/Lab_News/Entries/2014/2/7_Bloom_of_the_Week_-.html

I also highly recommend this series of podcasts on gender from Radiolab! https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/radiolab/projects/radiolab-presents-gonads

[Anonymous]

I am sending you good wishes, OP. I hope that your baby is born healthy and wonderful.

I read a book a few years ago called "Born Both," which was a memoir of an intersex person whose parents did not surgically alter their sex organs at birth. (The writer was assigned the female gender at birth.) The memoir is a bit slow at times, so I wouldn't necessarily give it 5 stars, but it truly opened my eyes to the intersex condition. In particular it was fascinating to read the story of a person who has characteristics of both male and female genitalia and who is comfortable living in their body. I am sure there are other excellent books out there for you to read and consider as you move forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I know this is all very new (and that CHA has health issues apart from the gender issues) but I wonder if you'd be helped by reading about intersex and gender issues in general. The fact is, gender in the animal kingdom (including humans) has never really been wholly binary! In many ways your child (if they are CAH) is extremely lucky to be born today, when we know so much more about gender differences and are more accepting. I can understand it's a shock, but it's going to be OK and will open your mind to a whole new world of information and ways of seeing categories that you formerly thought were entirely fixed.

I've been doing a good bit of this, and it's been helpful and enlightening to some extent - I've certainly learned a lot about all the different ways people's development can and does diverge from what we consider the binary "norm." Even as a pretty progressive and well-educated person, I've had my eyes opened to a lot. On the other hand though, I've also encountered a lot of very fraught debate about the right way to raise a child who has a condition like this, arguments about whether corrective surgery is reasonable or beneficial or selfish or barbaric, and wading into those issues knowing I'll have decisions to make about those things in the future is what's contributing to a lot of my stress. It'd be helpful for me to hear from other parents on DCUM who've confronted those kinds of questions, or similar ones, but I know there may not be any folks like that since these conditions are somewhat rare.

I'm dealing with a different condition in my kid, but somewhat parallels in that it makes him different, but not different in a way that necessarily requires intervention (aw, will just spell it out: it's high-functioning autism). One thing that has helped so much is to read blogs and articles by adults with autism to understand how the view the world and things that grown-ups did to "help" them, some of which were perceived as abusive and harsh (like trying to force kids not to move their hands so as not to appear different). I suggest you do the same for intersex people -- read what they have to say about themselves. And yeah, it is certainly eye-opening to learn more about gender. Interesting tidbit is that Dr. Kinsey, who did ground-breaking work in the varieties of adult sexuality, started out as a biologist studying insect morphology -- he realized that humans, like the rest of the natural world, vary in may aspects and cannot be fitted into binaries. https://nature.berkeley.edu/blackmanlab/Blackman_Lab/Lab_News/Entries/2014/2/7_Bloom_of_the_Week_-.html

I also highly recommend this series of podcasts on gender from Radiolab! https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/radiolab/projects/radiolab-presents-gonads

I mean, Autism is not in any way similar to this situation. At all. You are talking about something physical versus neurological. It's just not a realistic comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I know this is all very new (and that CHA has health issues apart from the gender issues) but I wonder if you'd be helped by reading about intersex and gender issues in general. The fact is, gender in the animal kingdom (including humans) has never really been wholly binary! In many ways your child (if they are CAH) is extremely lucky to be born today, when we know so much more about gender differences and are more accepting. I can understand it's a shock, but it's going to be OK and will open your mind to a whole new world of information and ways of seeing categories that you formerly thought were entirely fixed.

I've been doing a good bit of this, and it's been helpful and enlightening to some extent - I've certainly learned a lot about all the different ways people's development can and does diverge from what we consider the binary "norm." Even as a pretty progressive and well-educated person, I've had my eyes opened to a lot. On the other hand though, I've also encountered a lot of very fraught debate about the right way to raise a child who has a condition like this, arguments about whether corrective surgery is reasonable or beneficial or selfish or barbaric, and wading into those issues knowing I'll have decisions to make about those things in the future is what's contributing to a lot of my stress. It'd be helpful for me to hear from other parents on DCUM who've confronted those kinds of questions, or similar ones, but I know there may not be any folks like that since these conditions are somewhat rare.

I'm dealing with a different condition in my kid, but somewhat parallels in that it makes him different, but not different in a way that necessarily requires intervention (aw, will just spell it out: it's high-functioning autism). One thing that has helped so much is to read blogs and articles by adults with autism to understand how the view the world and things that grown-ups did to "help" them, some of which were perceived as abusive and harsh (like trying to force kids not to move their hands so as not to appear different). I suggest you do the same for intersex people -- read what they have to say about themselves. And yeah, it is certainly eye-opening to learn more about gender. Interesting tidbit is that Dr. Kinsey, who did ground-breaking work in the varieties of adult sexuality, started out as a biologist studying insect morphology -- he realized that humans, like the rest of the natural world, vary in may aspects and cannot be fitted into binaries. https://nature.berkeley.edu/blackmanlab/Blackman_Lab/Lab_News/Entries/2014/2/7_Bloom_of_the_Week_-.html

I also highly recommend this series of podcasts on gender from Radiolab! https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/radiolab/projects/radiolab-presents-gonads

I mean, Autism is not in any way similar to this situation. At all. You are talking about something physical versus neurological. It's just not a realistic comparison.

Obviously, I know that. The overall point is having a child that will be outside the norm. But I do think there is an important similarity: treatments that were considered standard by the medical community and "society" (genital reassignment surgery; harsh ABA) were intended to make the kid "look" normal, and now adults who have been subjected to those treatments have told us clearly that they were harmful. It's about having a child that is different in a way that seems to get the the heart of social acceptability and identity, and how as a parent you adjust emotionally, philosophically, and ethically to handling that difference.

[Anonymous]

OP, have your doctors said that there is no chance that this is a normal variation? I know it’s hard not to focus on the worst case scenarios, but if they haven’t explicitly said that there is no chance of this (or if you have not asked this—in which case you should), don’t rule it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, have your doctors said that there is no chance that this is a normal variation? I know it’s hard not to focus on the worst case scenarios, but if they haven’t explicitly said that there is no chance of this (or if you have not asked this—in which case you should), don’t rule it out.

They haven't quite said that, no - what they said was that when genitalia appear ambiguous there's typically a reason behind it. Nothing they've said or that I've read indicates that this would just be a random thing that happened for no reason, or that what we're seeing is within the normal range of what girls typically look like. I suppose this can be a question in the event that the CAH test comes back negative.