Innovative Ideas to reduce educational disparity

[Anonymous]

People not interested in giving the best to their children academically and making their education a priority should not have children or be allowed only limited number of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's the thing.. most kids from poor families with uneducated parents grow up not thinking that college or some type of higher education is a reality for them. It's not even in their thought process. We need to change that culture- for the kids AND for the parents.

Central American countries only mandate school until 6th grade. Not a value. Not a concept.
That plus zero assimilation here = Still not a value.

Bingo! 4 sentences sum up the problem with the OP's theory. No way busing will fix this.

But kids aren’t their parents.

Hey everybody: raise your hand if you have more education than your parents. It may be hard to believe, but over a third of American college students today have parents who did not go to college: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-generation_college_students_in_the_United_States

You really can’t just write off a generation of students because they don’t have the right parents.

True but it’s a distinction without a difference because college grads today on average know less than our parents on average did graduating high school. College ed has been watered down, that’s it’s almost criminal how expensive it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People not interested in giving the best to their children academically and making their education a priority should not have children or be allowed only limited number of kids.

Thid is very hard to decipher, how do you define ‘best’’ and ‘educational priorities’. Truth is just because it’s catchy to say everyone should go to college, college isn’t for everyone. That said graduating highschool should have meaning. A graduate should be able to read, write, know math up to at least geometry, know geography, civics, and basic understanding of chemistry, economics, world, and American history. Most of this is sorely lacking for many students despite parent interest for good education. Look at Common Core (really Curriculum 2.0) despite parents hating it it was shoved down our throats. Perhaps now we do need to send all MoCo kids to college so they can relearn and be competent in basic math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Busing kids arbitrarily is not going to dramatically improve student achievement. Instead of struggling students you'll have tired, struggling students. It's a major inconvenience for minimal returns.

What you describe is like the desegregation busing that did impact achievement significanty because there were subatantial differences in resource allotment. If one group has current textbooks, lots of lab equipment, and well maintained facilities and the other doesn't, busing the haves to the have-nots school provides an incentive to make up the shortfall. I don't think anyone is suggesting that's the problem here.

Clearly the correlation between academic achievement and SES is complex and tied to a multitude of factors. The best way to address it, however, is to strengthen academics. I think there are 3 key areas that need to be addressed:

1. Curriculum - An independent audit has concluded that MCPS'S curriculum is awful. We need a rigorous, content rich curriculum. We need to teach phonics explicitly. We need to have content rich courses in Science and Social Studies which will also help with reading comprehension by supplying context. We need to have a mathematic curriculum developed by mathematical experts (and eliminate calculators before high school). We need to teach grammar, spelling, and handwriting. We need to have textbooks that are prepared and reviewed by subject matter experts, with topics that progress in a logical order, with explanations and examples (especially vital for those who have the least academic support at home), and with convenient features like glossaries and indexes. (Ideally, I'd like for everyone to learn a foreign language and have a comprehensive health class starting in 1st grade, but those are wants, not need.)

2. Grading - The grading system needs to be overhauled. Every assignment should be graded for correctness and all errors should be marked. I'd like to see a percentage based grading scale as that seems the most straightforward indicator of a child's academic performance. Take away the 50% credit for an attempt. Take away test retakes. If you want to allow retakes, it should be at the assignment level where learning is supposed to occur, not at the assessment level. If the child's grade is low they can do extra course-related work to bring up their grade which will give them a chance to inprove their understanding and/or develop an interest in the subject. Restore cumulative finals.

3. Grouping - Have FLEXIBLE ability grouping (not tracking). With MCPS's preferred heterogeneous grouping, high performance students are often largely ignored, struggling students don't get as much help as they need, and on-level students aren't encouraged to reach their potential. Unless you're going to completely ignore grade level and above grade level students, any attention and class time spent addressing their needs is less that can be devoted to those who need help the most. Sometimes, higher achieving students are set to peer tutor struggling atudents which shortchanges them both. The high achieving student should be given the opportunity to learn. If not, why do they need to be at school? Further, the high achieving student, whatever the reading and math level, will not be as effective as a well-trained, licensed teacher.

Flexible ability grouping has been done, successfully in MCPS.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/03/AR2007110301167.html?sid=ST2007110301386

The fact is that education in MCPS is broken. A lot of times, teachers may go outside the curriculum to make up the deficiencies, but this would be teacher dependent. There could possibly be a correlation by school if more experienced teachers who know what supplemental instruction children need and are secure enough in their jobs to go outside the curriculum are drawn to certain schools. The key is not to shuffle around the students so that students might happen to get one of these gems. The key is to change the curriculum so that all teachers are providing all necessary content.

Going to a high SES school is no guarantee that academic conditions will be better, as amply demonstrated in this recent thread concerning math instruction at Churchill:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/749557.page

I've long been convinced that a large part of MCPS's "success" is that it has a large percentage of well-educated parents. These parents know what is vital for academic success, and where they see shortfalls, will either tutor the child at home or high a tutor from the locally booming tutor industry. Bussing a child to another school "to instill educational virtue", is unlikely to be successful if the key to being a "better student" is to get supplemental instruction outside the school. I think you'd get a better return if you spent the bussing fund on vouchers to Sylvan, Kumon, Mathnasium, Orton Gillingham, Lindamood Bell, etc. They can learn to harmonize there, where they're actually learning.

+1000

+1,000,000

+1

All fantastic points and very accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We need to instill a college going culture starting in Elementary school and we need to make it loud and clear to ALL students and their parents. Check out what this school did in CA: https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2010/12/08/14colleges_ep.h30.html

Actually, I think that MCPS has emphasized "college going culture" too much. Not everyone has equal capacity to do various types of academics. We have very limited vocational programs and enrollment in these programs is often limited by academic criteria. So, we are basically graduating kids who are semi-literate with no trade, all because we hope that everyone can go to college. Especially for kids entering the system as teenagers from other countries. There is no way that they will catch up. Meanwhile the skilled trades are begging for workers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to instill a college going culture starting in Elementary school and we need to make it loud and clear to ALL students and their parents. Check out what this school did in CA: https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2010/12/08/14colleges_ep.h30.html

Actually, I think that MCPS has emphasized "college going culture" too much. Not everyone has equal capacity to do various types of academics. We have very limited vocational programs and enrollment in these programs is often limited by academic criteria. So, we are basically graduating kids who are semi-literate with no trade, all because we hope that everyone can go to college. Especially for kids entering the system as teenagers from other countries. There is no way that they will catch up. Meanwhile the skilled trades are begging for workers.

This was a big deal when my kids were in MCPS..the Seven Steps for College readiness. Like if you are not an advanced reader in K, forget college. And I was happy to read last week that MCPS is expending tech education. Plenty of ways to be successful without college.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2012/10/26/why-mcps-seven-keys-to-college-readiness-should-be-tossed/?utm_term=.9ac1ff14d0d9

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People not interested in giving the best to their children academically and making their education a priority should not have children or be allowed only limited number of kids.

People have different priorities. You don't get to decide what those are or if they can have kids.

[Anonymous]

"DC is a stellar MCPS student who would love to have study buddies of different race/SEC status. Where to find such opportunities? Classmates are either uninterested or unwill.

Your child should learn how to inspire others around her to engage and make them want to learn."

My DC was in a program that taught stellar students how to inspire/engage/make them want to learn.

DC had a huge success rate. The program as a whole had a terrible success rate, so it didn't last very long.

DC's "secret" was that their "successes" were based on friendships built on sports teams.

Groups that already knew how to work together on a team could transferred that knowledge to school work.

Not everyone can use this model but would there be a way to create lots more teams based on video games/online sports/social media based competitions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to send my kids to tutoring until I realized how much free, guided, enrichment is available online.
This isnt about money, its cultural.

It takes money to have a computer and high speed internet access.

The school should provide access to the needed content without having to resort to outside instruction.

Moreover, people are using culture here to describe parental apathy. It could be that a parent who is uneducated themselves doesn't know that outside instruction is necessary in "one of the best school systems in the country". I suppose that a parent's low level of education may be cultural, but it's not apathy. If a parent is busy working 2 jobs trying to keep food on the table and a roof overhead, they are not apathetic, even if they don't have a lot of time to provide outside enrichment.

I was a SAH mom. I volunteered in schools. I provided all the types of enrichment that have been described in this thread I am about as far from apathetic as a parent can be. I was shocked and appalled at how much instruction I had to provide because of MCPS deficiencies. I had the benefit of a strong education in a public school. It had some weaknesses, but it was so much stronger on the fundamentals, which meant that I could identify and address problems as they came up. When we bought our house, school quality was a primary concern. I assumed I would have to occasionally answer a homework question or quiz my child on spelling words. I never envisioned that I would have to become a reading/grammar/math/science/social studies teacher.

I've met parents with struggling students, none of whom were indifferent to their child's education. Yes, I'm sure there are some apathetic, neglectful parents. (I strongly suspect you'll find some of those even in high SES brackets.) However, I think most are trying, like the rest of us, to help our kids to the best of our abilities, even if those abilities vary widely.

The purpose of public schools is to offer a free education to all children, regardless of their parents capabilities and/or interest in educating their children. If you felt it necessary to provide a tutor or online tutor equivalent for your children, then I think it has failed in that purpose. Thank goodness you understood your childrens' needs and had the knowledge required to get them the necessary help.

PP you quoted here.
You misunderstood my tone.
When I say "its cultural " I mean that I, as a parent, have a flexible mindset about my children's education. I dont get their report cards in the mail and think "oh they are_______" (smart, not so smart, average). I get the reports and determine where, exactly, they need to study harder or differently. I know and understand that graduation from even the best school in the country means they have met the bare minimum required by law. I know for them to be competitive they will need to do much more.
Teaching that mindset to PARENTS is the key.

I say "cultural " to establish the belief that the mindset is taught by social peers and family and differentiate it from the idea that it's related to genetics or intelligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

PP you quoted here.
You misunderstood my tone.
When I say "its cultural " I mean that I, as a parent, have a flexible mindset about my children's education. I dont get their report cards in the mail and think "oh they are_______" (smart, not so smart, average). I get the reports and determine where, exactly, they need to study harder or differently. I know and understand that graduation from even the best school in the country means they have met the bare minimum required by law. I know for them to be competitive they will need to do much more.
Teaching that mindset to PARENTS is the key.

I say "cultural " to establish the belief that the mindset is taught by social peers and family and differentiate it from the idea that it's related to genetics or intelligence.

PP, you should know that on DCUM, "it's cultural" means "Asian-Americans are successful because they work hard and value education, white people value friends and sports over education, black people are lazy and only have themselves to blame, and Hispanic people are illiterate and think of schools as free day care".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP you quoted here.
You misunderstood my tone.
When I say "its cultural " I mean that I, as a parent, have a flexible mindset about my children's education. I dont get their report cards in the mail and think "oh they are_______" (smart, not so smart, average). I get the reports and determine where, exactly, they need to study harder or differently. I know and understand that graduation from even the best school in the country means they have met the bare minimum required by law. I know for them to be competitive they will need to do much more.
Teaching that mindset to PARENTS is the key.

I say "cultural " to establish the belief that the mindset is taught by social peers and family and differentiate it from the idea that it's related to genetics or intelligence.

PP, you should know that on DCUM, "it's cultural" means "Asian-Americans are successful because they work hard and value education, white people value friends and sports over education, black people are lazy and only have themselves to blame, and Hispanic people are illiterate and think of schools as free day care".

Maybe so, at some point 1000s of examples of the same thing equals a stereotype, whether you fall into its stereotype or not is up to you.

How you parent and your family's values is based on you and your cultural aspects you choose. Some people just rotely do what they saw their parent(S) role model, some question things and improve, some have a growth mindset all the time.

You pick your culture, then live it. The living it is the important part, not what you say or check in the box. Show me, don't tell me. Show me you are an active parent. Show me you care about educating your child. Show me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Maybe so, at some point 1000s of examples of the same thing equals a stereotype, whether you fall into its stereotype or not is up to you.

How you parent and your family's values is based on you and your cultural aspects you choose. Some people just rotely do what they saw their parent(S) role model, some question things and improve, some have a growth mindset all the time.

You pick your culture, then live it. The living it is the important part, not what you say or check in the box. Show me, don't tell me. Show me you are an active parent. Show me you care about educating your child. Show me.

Really?

I'm the PP you're responding to, and if you're the PP I was responding to - I was just trying to improve communication. What you mean when you say "it's cultural" is not necessarily what the people reading the post understand you to mean.

But, you know, PP, people really don't have an obligation to prove anything to you. Think what you want to think. If you want to believe in bigoted stereotypes, that's on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP you quoted here.
You misunderstood my tone.
When I say "its cultural " I mean that I, as a parent, have a flexible mindset about my children's education. I dont get their report cards in the mail and think "oh they are_______" (smart, not so smart, average). I get the reports and determine where, exactly, they need to study harder or differently. I know and understand that graduation from even the best school in the country means they have met the bare minimum required by law. I know for them to be competitive they will need to do much more.
Teaching that mindset to PARENTS is the key.

I say "cultural " to establish the belief that the mindset is taught by social peers and family and differentiate it from the idea that it's related to genetics or intelligence.

PP, you should know that on DCUM, "it's cultural" means "Asian-Americans are successful because they work hard and value education, white people value friends and sports over education, black people are lazy and only have themselves to blame, and Hispanic people are illiterate and think of schools as free day care".

Maybe so, at some point 1000s of examples of the same thing equals a stereotype, whether you fall into its stereotype or not is up to you.

How you parent and your family's values is based on you and your cultural aspects you choose. Some people just rotely do what they saw their parent(S) role model, some question things and improve, some have a growth mindset all the time.

You pick your culture, then live it. The living it is the important part, not what you say or check in the box. Show me, don't tell me. Show me you are an active parent. Show me you care about educating your child. Show me.

It's not cultural it's almost always SES related and before someone talks about Asians the ones that can actually afford to come here were generally more well off in their home countries.

There are plenty of poor whites and asians who struggle/don't value academics and richer blacks and hispanics who value education

[Anonymous]

There is only one way to catch up in academics. Spend all your time on academics besides eating, sleeping and exercising. When we work hard, other students are also working hard. If we don’t work more, there is no way to catch up. After we catch up, we can just work hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP you quoted here.
You misunderstood my tone.
When I say "its cultural " I mean that I, as a parent, have a flexible mindset about my children's education. I dont get their report cards in the mail and think "oh they are_______" (smart, not so smart, average). I get the reports and determine where, exactly, they need to study harder or differently. I know and understand that graduation from even the best school in the country means they have met the bare minimum required by law. I know for them to be competitive they will need to do much more.
Teaching that mindset to PARENTS is the key.

I say "cultural " to establish the belief that the mindset is taught by social peers and family and differentiate it from the idea that it's related to genetics or intelligence.

PP, you should know that on DCUM, "it's cultural" means "Asian-Americans are successful because they work hard and value education, white people value friends and sports over education, black people are lazy and only have themselves to blame, and Hispanic people are illiterate and think of schools as free day care".

Maybe so, at some point 1000s of examples of the same thing equals a stereotype, whether you fall into its stereotype or not is up to you.

How you parent and your family's values is based on you and your cultural aspects you choose. Some people just rotely do what they saw their parent(S) role model, some question things and improve, some have a growth mindset all the time.

You pick your culture, then live it. The living it is the important part, not what you say or check in the box. Show me, don't tell me. Show me you are an active parent. Show me you care about educating your child. Show me.

It's not cultural it's almost always SES related and before someone talks about Asians the ones that can actually afford to come here were generally more well off in their home countries.

There are plenty of poor whites and asians who struggle/don't value academics and richer blacks and hispanics who value education

DP

Watch your own racist views. There are plenty of poor Asians who come to this country.

You do not have to be wealthy to value education.