are AP exams really necessary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you all seen the statistics on AP testing results? ABYSMAL. We are talking only 5-9% getting a 5 and that is with a curve.

I am not sure the point of AP classes in high school. High school teachers can not teach them like college professors and the kids don’t have the time to digest them.

Public’s really need to start follow private school lead and offer advanced honors courses that prepare the kids for college courses, not try to cram a college course in from Aug to April and having kids take multiple AP tests and missing other classes during school time to do it. It is just way too chaotic to have juniors taking SAT or ACT, SAT subject tests, AP finals, other finals, and term papers all in the span of 1-2 months. These kids aren’t LEARNING anything. It is anxiety induced memorization.

Agree about the teachers. You want college classes? Go to community college.

Community college classes at ours (MC) are easily less rigorous than the AP classes that I teach. I've had students in both. Think about the cohorts...

An AP course is usually taught over the course of 2 semesters, a CC course is generally only 1 semester. There are pros and cons to both. Certainly you have more of an opportunity to go into depth in a year long course than you would if the course was condensed into one semester.

Well if you take a non AP Calculus in high school and THEN take Calculus in college, you get a much more thorough teaching, correct? This is what almost the entire country did prior to AP’s.

So to now say that an AP Cal course goes slowly is actually incorrect. Many kids go from Pre-Calc in high school to one year of AP Calc BC. Then they try and skip Calc 1 and Calc 2 in college. There is no comparison. AP’s are trying to whiz thru Calc on multiple choice questions to get you ready for college? Please.

I'll pose this question: "Which is easier for a student who has never taken calculus before: year long AP Calc AB, Calculus 1 during fall semester community college or Calc 1 summer session at the community college?"

New poster here. Most kids in our school do not take Calc AB. Most skip right to BC like someone else mentioned. I would say 80% The only kids that may take AB are seniors who have no desire to go into anything science or math related and took a slower track. But most of those kids end up taking AP Stats as it is deemed easier and you can bypass a math course in college. Not sure how it is elsewhere.

AB is the equivalent of College Calc 1 and BC is the equivalent of College Calc 2. I suppose they are using AB/BC to place out of Calc 1 and Calc 2 in college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you all seen the statistics on AP testing results? ABYSMAL. We are talking only 5-9% getting a 5 and that is with a curve.

I am not sure the point of AP classes in high school. High school teachers can not teach them like college professors and the kids don’t have the time to digest them.

Public’s really need to start follow private school lead and offer advanced honors courses that prepare the kids for college courses, not try to cram a college course in from Aug to April and having kids take multiple AP tests and missing other classes during school time to do it. It is just way too chaotic to have juniors taking SAT or ACT, SAT subject tests, AP finals, other finals, and term papers all in the span of 1-2 months. These kids aren’t LEARNING anything. It is anxiety induced memorization.

Agree about the teachers. You want college classes? Go to community college.

Community college classes at ours (MC) are easily less rigorous than the AP classes that I teach. I've had students in both. Think about the cohorts...

An AP course is usually taught over the course of 2 semesters, a CC course is generally only 1 semester. There are pros and cons to both. Certainly you have more of an opportunity to go into depth in a year long course than you would if the course was condensed into one semester.

Well if you take a non AP Calculus in high school and THEN take Calculus in college, you get a much more thorough teaching, correct? This is what almost the entire country did prior to AP’s.

So to now say that an AP Cal course goes slowly is actually incorrect. Many kids go from Pre-Calc in high school to one year of AP Calc BC. Then they try and skip Calc 1 and Calc 2 in college. There is no comparison. AP’s are trying to whiz thru Calc on multiple choice questions to get you ready for college? Please.

I'll pose this question: "Which is easier for a student who has never taken calculus before: year long AP Calc AB, Calculus 1 during fall semester community college or Calc 1 summer session at the community college?"

New poster here. Most kids in our school do not take Calc AB. Most skip right to BC like someone else mentioned. I would say 80% The only kids that may take AB are seniors who have no desire to go into anything science or math related and took a slower track. But most of those kids end up taking AP Stats as it is deemed easier and you can bypass a math course in college. Not sure how it is elsewhere.

I'd be wary about the AP Stats track, many of the LAC's my DC applied to this last year had a stated preference for kids to take a math curriculum that terminated with Calculus. So, avoiding AP Calc AB in favor of AP Stats might not be a good course of action even for a non-STEM kid. I'll add that many non-STEM degrees have a Calculus requirement as a terminal math course that satisfying with an AP exam might be a good strategy. Statistics is actually a much more useful course career-wise for a non-STEM major and I'd rather see them take that in a more rigorous college setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you all seen the statistics on AP testing results? ABYSMAL. We are talking only 5-9% getting a 5 and that is with a curve.

I am not sure the point of AP classes in high school. High school teachers can not teach them like college professors and the kids don’t have the time to digest them.

Public’s really need to start follow private school lead and offer advanced honors courses that prepare the kids for college courses, not try to cram a college course in from Aug to April and having kids take multiple AP tests and missing other classes during school time to do it. It is just way too chaotic to have juniors taking SAT or ACT, SAT subject tests, AP finals, other finals, and term papers all in the span of 1-2 months. These kids aren’t LEARNING anything. It is anxiety induced memorization.

Agree about the teachers. You want college classes? Go to community college.

Community college classes at ours (MC) are easily less rigorous than the AP classes that I teach. I've had students in both. Think about the cohorts...

An AP course is usually taught over the course of 2 semesters, a CC course is generally only 1 semester. There are pros and cons to both. Certainly you have more of an opportunity to go into depth in a year long course than you would if the course was condensed into one semester.

Well if you take a non AP Calculus in high school and THEN take Calculus in college, you get a much more thorough teaching, correct? This is what almost the entire country did prior to AP’s.

So to now say that an AP Cal course goes slowly is actually incorrect. Many kids go from Pre-Calc in high school to one year of AP Calc BC. Then they try and skip Calc 1 and Calc 2 in college. There is no comparison. AP’s are trying to whiz thru Calc on multiple choice questions to get you ready for college? Please.

I'll pose this question: "Which is easier for a student who has never taken calculus before: year long AP Calc AB, Calculus 1 during fall semester community college or Calc 1 summer session at the community college?"

The thought is Pre-Calc is teaching A but it really is not. Calc BC is basically ABC at quick speeds, tons of homework to make up on missed concepts, and not very in depth thought producing. Since the AP has more multiple choice which is weighted more heavily, the high school staff focus on past tests and basically teach to pass. Between so many days off, holidays, breaks, and snow days, you would be surprised how little time there is. Also AP staff grade on a curve and on the written portion, each person grades the same question for everyone. So if you have enough compared to everyone else, you get a better grade. The written portions are graded very easily hence the high pass rates of those tests compared to many others.

That said there is a struggle. STEM kids want to show rigor so bypassing AB to BC shows that. But then in college 99% of the STEM and engineering schools make you retake Calculus anyway. It is very hard to bypas because they know the kids aren’t prepared. It is a catch 22.

New poster here. Most kids in our school do not take Calc AB. Most skip right to BC like someone else mentioned. I would say 80% The only kids that may take AB are seniors who have no desire to go into anything science or math related and took a slower track. But most of those kids end up taking AP Stats as it is deemed easier and you can bypass a math course in college. Not sure how it is elsewhere.

AB is the equivalent of College Calc 1 and BC is the equivalent of College Calc 2. I suppose they are using AB/BC to place out of Calc 1 and Calc 2 in college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you all seen the statistics on AP testing results? ABYSMAL. We are talking only 5-9% getting a 5 and that is with a curve.

I am not sure the point of AP classes in high school. High school teachers can not teach them like college professors and the kids don’t have the time to digest them.

Public’s really need to start follow private school lead and offer advanced honors courses that prepare the kids for college courses, not try to cram a college course in from Aug to April and having kids take multiple AP tests and missing other classes during school time to do it. It is just way too chaotic to have juniors taking SAT or ACT, SAT subject tests, AP finals, other finals, and term papers all in the span of 1-2 months. These kids aren’t LEARNING anything. It is anxiety induced memorization.

Agree about the teachers. You want college classes? Go to community college.

Community college classes at ours (MC) are easily less rigorous than the AP classes that I teach. I've had students in both. Think about the cohorts...

An AP course is usually taught over the course of 2 semesters, a CC course is generally only 1 semester. There are pros and cons to both. Certainly you have more of an opportunity to go into depth in a year long course than you would if the course was condensed into one semester.

Well if you take a non AP Calculus in high school and THEN take Calculus in college, you get a much more thorough teaching, correct? This is what almost the entire country did prior to AP’s.

So to now say that an AP Cal course goes slowly is actually incorrect. Many kids go from Pre-Calc in high school to one year of AP Calc BC. Then they try and skip Calc 1 and Calc 2 in college. There is no comparison. AP’s are trying to whiz thru Calc on multiple choice questions to get you ready for college? Please.

I'll pose this question: "Which is easier for a student who has never taken calculus before: year long AP Calc AB, Calculus 1 during fall semester community college or Calc 1 summer session at the community college?"

New poster here. Most kids in our school do not take Calc AB. Most skip right to BC like someone else mentioned. I would say 80% The only kids that may take AB are seniors who have no desire to go into anything science or math related and took a slower track. But most of those kids end up taking AP Stats as it is deemed easier and you can bypass a math course in college. Not sure how it is elsewhere.

AB is the equivalent of College Calc 1 and BC is the equivalent of College Calc 2. I suppose they are using AB/BC to place out of Calc 1 and Calc 2 in college?

Reposting correctly...

The thought is Pre-Calc is teaching A but it really is not. Calc BC is basically ABC at quick speeds, tons of homework to make up on missed concepts, and not very in depth thought producing. Since the AP has more multiple choice which is weighted more heavily, the high school staff focus on past tests and basically teach to pass. Between so many days off, holidays, breaks, and snow days, you would be surprised how little time there is. Also AP staff grade on a curve and on the written portion, each person grades the same question for everyone. So if you have enough compared to everyone else, you get a better grade. The written portions are graded very easily hence the high pass rates of those tests compared to many others.

That said there is a struggle. STEM kids want to show rigor so bypassing AB to BC shows that. But then in college 99% of the STEM and engineering schools make you retake Calculus anyway. It is very hard to bypas because they know the kids aren’t prepared. It is a catch 22.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm. Would a student who took and passed General Chem at their local CC be able to get a 4 or 5 on the AP Chem test w/o additional study?

Would a student who took AP Chem and achieved or 4 or 5 on the AP exam be able to take and pass the Gen Chem final at their local CC w/o any additional study?

Are the courses truly interchangeable? Are the exams of equal difficulty? I wonder if anyone has studied this?

My nephew went to a SLAC and tried to bypass Calc 1 and 2 after taking AP Calc BC. Huge mistake. One year of BC will never ever get you past two rigorous Calc courses. He had to withdrawl and start over. Lost a semester. Kids skipping Calc AB are having the worst issues with it b

My oldest, based on similar advice, opted to retake Second semester calculus in college and said it was a waste of his time, everything was review. The only bonus was an easy A. Our younger son took BC Calculus his junior year in HS and the GMU co-curriular class for Matrix Algebra and Multivariable Calculus. He took differential equations fall freshman year and he was fine- got an A. I have heard similar experiences from parents of their peers. I think our HS must be exceptional in their math prep.

Okay Depends on the student and the school they matriculate too. Most struggle. Very little get easy A’s. Many top SLAC’s test you on your level too. That can and can not work.

Well, one went to Purdue Engineering and went to RIT. Not exactly slacker STEM schools.

[Anonymous]

OP: Re: taking th AP exam, is it important to the student? To you? To the school? To the teacher? The answers are specific to your particular situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm. Would a student who took and passed General Chem at their local CC be able to get a 4 or 5 on the AP Chem test w/o additional study?

Would a student who took AP Chem and achieved or 4 or 5 on the AP exam be able to take and pass the Gen Chem final at their local CC w/o any additional study?

Are the courses truly interchangeable? Are the exams of equal difficulty? I wonder if anyone has studied this?

My nephew went to a SLAC and tried to bypass Calc 1 and 2 after taking AP Calc BC. Huge mistake. One year of BC will never ever get you past two rigorous Calc courses. He had to withdrawl and start over. Lost a semester. Kids skipping Calc AB are having the worst issues with it b

My oldest, based on similar advice, opted to retake Second semester calculus in college and said it was a waste of his time, everything was review. The only bonus was an easy A. Our younger son took BC Calculus his junior year in HS and the GMU co-curriular class for Matrix Algebra and Multivariable Calculus. He took differential equations fall freshman year and he was fine- got an A. I have heard similar experiences from parents of their peers. I think our HS must be exceptional in their math prep.

Okay Depends on the student and the school they matriculate too. Most struggle. Very little get easy A’s. Many top SLAC’s test you on your level too. That can and can not work.

Well, one went to Purdue Engineering and went to RIT. Not exactly slacker STEM schools.

But certainly not the best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you all seen the statistics on AP testing results? ABYSMAL. We are talking only 5-9% getting a 5 and that is with a curve.

I am not sure the point of AP classes in high school. High school teachers can not teach them like college professors and the kids don’t have the time to digest them.

Public’s really need to start follow private school lead and offer advanced honors courses that prepare the kids for college courses, not try to cram a college course in from Aug to April and having kids take multiple AP tests and missing other classes during school time to do it. It is just way too chaotic to have juniors taking SAT or ACT, SAT subject tests, AP finals, other finals, and term papers all in the span of 1-2 months. These kids aren’t LEARNING anything. It is anxiety induced memorization.

Agree about the teachers. You want college classes? Go to community college.

Community college classes at ours (MC) are easily less rigorous than the AP classes that I teach. I've had students in both. Think about the cohorts...

An AP course is usually taught over the course of 2 semesters, a CC course is generally only 1 semester. There are pros and cons to both. Certainly you have more of an opportunity to go into depth in a year long course than you would if the course was condensed into one semester.

Well if you take a non AP Calculus in high school and THEN take Calculus in college, you get a much more thorough teaching, correct? This is what almost the entire country did prior to AP’s.

So to now say that an AP Cal course goes slowly is actually incorrect. Many kids go from Pre-Calc in high school to one year of AP Calc BC. Then they try and skip Calc 1 and Calc 2 in college. There is no comparison. AP’s are trying to whiz thru Calc on multiple choice questions to get you ready for college? Please.

I'll pose this question: "Which is easier for a student who has never taken calculus before: year long AP Calc AB, Calculus 1 during fall semester community college or Calc 1 summer session at the community college?"

New poster here. Most kids in our school do not take Calc AB. Most skip right to BC like someone else mentioned. I would say 80% The only kids that may take AB are seniors who have no desire to go into anything science or math related and took a slower track. But most of those kids end up taking AP Stats as it is deemed easier and you can bypass a math course in college. Not sure how it is elsewhere.

AB is the equivalent of College Calc 1 and BC is the equivalent of College Calc 2. I suppose they are using AB/BC to place out of Calc 1 and Calc 2 in college?

Reposting correctly...

The thought is Pre-Calc is teaching A but it really is not. Calc BC is basically ABC at quick speeds, tons of homework to make up on missed concepts, and not very in depth thought producing. Since the AP has more multiple choice which is weighted more heavily, the high school staff focus on past tests and basically teach to pass. Between so many days off, holidays, breaks, and snow days, you would be surprised how little time there is. Also AP staff grade on a curve and on the written portion, each person grades the same question for everyone. So if you have enough compared to everyone else, you get a better grade. The written portions are graded very easily hence the high pass rates of those tests compared to many others.

That said there is a struggle. STEM kids want to show rigor so bypassing AB to BC shows that. But then in college 99% of the STEM and engineering schools make you retake Calculus anyway. It is very hard to bypas because they know the kids aren’t prepared. It is a catch 22.

I'm sure that they find college calc to be a different animal....but I'll bet that they are glad to have the BC calc under their belts. That way they go into Calc 1 with some good background.

[Anonymous]

I took a handful of class over two summers at a commicollege. Guaranteed transfer credit instead of maybe credit with APs. Graduated a semester early from an expensive university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm. Would a student who took and passed General Chem at their local CC be able to get a 4 or 5 on the AP Chem test w/o additional study?

Would a student who took AP Chem and achieved or 4 or 5 on the AP exam be able to take and pass the Gen Chem final at their local CC w/o any additional study?

Are the courses truly interchangeable? Are the exams of equal difficulty? I wonder if anyone has studied this?

My nephew went to a SLAC and tried to bypass Calc 1 and 2 after taking AP Calc BC. Huge mistake. One year of BC will never ever get you past two rigorous Calc courses. He had to withdrawl and start over. Lost a semester. Kids skipping Calc AB are having the worst issues with it b

My oldest, based on similar advice, opted to retake Second semester calculus in college and said it was a waste of his time, everything was review. The only bonus was an easy A. Our younger son took BC Calculus his junior year in HS and the GMU co-curriular class for Matrix Algebra and Multivariable Calculus. He took differential equations fall freshman year and he was fine- got an A. I have heard similar experiences from parents of their peers. I think our HS must be exceptional in their math prep.

Okay Depends on the student and the school they matriculate too. Most struggle. Very little get easy A’s. Many top SLAC’s test you on your level too. That can and can not work.

Well, one went to Purdue Engineering and went to RIT. Not exactly slacker STEM schools.

But certainly not the best.

You’re clearly not familiar with STEM.

[Anonymous]

My kid’s school (LAC) no longer allows kids to skip into bio 2. Said they had way too many kids starting right away with bio 2 after AP Bio and rarely did those kids have the proper foundation in biology to succeed in a second semester course. (May be the case in other departments too but I’m most familiar with the bio department policies because DD is a biology major...)

But, even tho she didn’t technically get credit she said she was glad she took AP Bio in high school anyway because she was at least familiar with most of the concepts covered. So I guess what she got from AP Bio was enough that it allowed her to feel a lot more comfortable in a college science course but not enough that it could serve as a replacement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you all seen the statistics on AP testing results? ABYSMAL. We are talking only 5-9% getting a 5 and that is with a curve.

I am not sure the point of AP classes in high school. High school teachers can not teach them like college professors and the kids don’t have the time to digest them.

Public’s really need to start follow private school lead and offer advanced honors courses that prepare the kids for college courses, not try to cram a college course in from Aug to April and having kids take multiple AP tests and missing other classes during school time to do it. It is just way too chaotic to have juniors taking SAT or ACT, SAT subject tests, AP finals, other finals, and term papers all in the span of 1-2 months. These kids aren’t LEARNING anything. It is anxiety induced memorization.

Agree about the teachers. You want college classes? Go to community college.

Community college classes at ours (MC) are easily less rigorous than the AP classes that I teach. I've had students in both. Think about the cohorts...

An AP course is usually taught over the course of 2 semesters, a CC course is generally only 1 semester. There are pros and cons to both. Certainly you have more of an opportunity to go into depth in a year long course than you would if the course was condensed into one semester.

Well if you take a non AP Calculus in high school and THEN take Calculus in college, you get a much more thorough teaching, correct? This is what almost the entire country did prior to AP’s.

So to now say that an AP Cal course goes slowly is actually incorrect. Many kids go from Pre-Calc in high school to one year of AP Calc BC. Then they try and skip Calc 1 and Calc 2 in college. There is no comparison. AP’s are trying to whiz thru Calc on multiple choice questions to get you ready for college? Please.

I'll pose this question: "Which is easier for a student who has never taken calculus before: year long AP Calc AB, Calculus 1 during fall semester community college or Calc 1 summer session at the community college?"

New poster here. Most kids in our school do not take Calc AB. Most skip right to BC like someone else mentioned. I would say 80% The only kids that may take AB are seniors who have no desire to go into anything science or math related and took a slower track. But most of those kids end up taking AP Stats as it is deemed easier and you can bypass a math course in college. Not sure how it is elsewhere.

I'd be wary about the AP Stats track, many of the LAC's my DC applied to this last year had a stated preference for kids to take a math curriculum that terminated with Calculus. So, avoiding AP Calc AB in favor of AP Stats might not be a good course of action even for a non-STEM kid. I'll add that many non-STEM degrees have a Calculus requirement as a terminal math course that satisfying with an AP exam might be a good strategy. Statistics is actually a much more useful course career-wise for a non-STEM major and I'd rather see them take that in a more rigorous college setting.

AP Stats has a bad reputation, it looks like someone attempting to avoid math for a year. My DC was going to take it senior year but her counselor pretty much insisted she take a second year of calc instead. We've heard some confirmation of this on college visits.

[Anonymous]

Stats is very important but I would argue that waiting for college is better. Exposure to calculus and linear algebra in HS is very helpful in providing a running start to retaking even basic college level math courses which will be more heavily proof based than many kids have been taught to do.

[Anonymous]

I am not sure why kids are bypassing Calc AB? That is Calc 1 in college. Why would you skip over that to Calc BC which is Calc 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure why kids are bypassing Calc AB? That is Calc 1 in college. Why would you skip over that to Calc BC which is Calc 2.

Because BC covers Calc AB, too. Or so I've heard.