Why is everything now just ASD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not paranoia -- it's a fact of life that diagnosis follows the money trail. Developmental pediatricians often just give an autism label with very little testing. I know multiple people this has happened to -- and the peds tend to think they are doing the parents a favor, because with the ASD dx brings insurance coverage.

When money is involved, no grand conspiracy is needed. Most everyone is incentivized to go on the path that gets money for services for the child.

Developmental pediatricians aren't incentivized to give autism diagnoses. If it's a fact, please cite an actual reputable source. You can't.

You're just pathetic as well as paranoid. Please get some counseling.

No, I'm accurate and realistic. First of all, incentivized doesn't just mean money. Got a dictionary handy? No? Here's a definition from Oxford:


in·cen·tiv·ize
[in?sen(t)??v?z]
VERB

provide (someone) with an incentive for doing something

In this case, doctors want to get insurance coverage for therapy for kids that come to see them.



Here's one off the top of my head example:

http://www.unstrange.com/reviews_timemag.html

TIME Magazine


Thursday, Jan. 11, 2007
What Autism Epidemic?
By Claudia Wallis

MORE HELP, LESS STIGMA As services have become more available for kids with autism, more parents are seeking a diagnosis they would have shunned 30 years ago, when psychiatrists still blamed autism on chilly "refrigerator" mothers. Doctors are also more willing to apply the diagnosis to help a patient. "I'll call a kid a zebra if it will get him the educational services I think he needs," National Institute of Mental Health psychiatrist Judith Rapoport told Grinker.

A quote isn't isn't proof of anything, let alone that doctors have incentive for insurance purposes.

Since you like definitions, here's one: evidence, "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."

Dictionary definition of paranoid = YOU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not paranoia -- it's a fact of life that diagnosis follows the money trail. Developmental pediatricians often just give an autism label with very little testing. I know multiple people this has happened to -- and the peds tend to think they are doing the parents a favor, because with the ASD dx brings insurance coverage.

When money is involved, no grand conspiracy is needed. Most everyone is incentivized to go on the path that gets money for services for the child.

Developmental pediatricians aren't incentivized to give autism diagnoses. If it's a fact, please cite an actual reputable source. You can't.

You're just pathetic as well as paranoid. Please get some counseling.

No, I'm accurate and realistic. First of all, incentivized doesn't just mean money. Got a dictionary handy? No? Here's a definition from Oxford:


in·cen·tiv·ize
[in?sen(t)??v?z]
VERB

provide (someone) with an incentive for doing something

In this case, doctors want to get insurance coverage for therapy for kids that come to see them.



Here's one off the top of my head example:

http://www.unstrange.com/reviews_timemag.html

TIME Magazine


Thursday, Jan. 11, 2007
What Autism Epidemic?
By Claudia Wallis

MORE HELP, LESS STIGMA As services have become more available for kids with autism, more parents are seeking a diagnosis they would have shunned 30 years ago, when psychiatrists still blamed autism on chilly "refrigerator" mothers. Doctors are also more willing to apply the diagnosis to help a patient. "I'll call a kid a zebra if it will get him the educational services I think he needs," National Institute of Mental Health psychiatrist Judith Rapoport told Grinker.

A quote isn't isn't proof of anything, let alone that doctors have incentive for insurance purposes.

Since you like definitions, here's one: evidence, "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."

Dictionary definition of paranoid = YOU.

I don't see how this argument is helpful to the OP. Seems she is doing the right things - researching the symptoms and seeing an experienced professional who will do appropriate testing. A well informed and vigilant parent is the child's best protection against a misdiagnosis, regardless of the reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not paranoia -- it's a fact of life that diagnosis follows the money trail. Developmental pediatricians often just give an autism label with very little testing. I know multiple people this has happened to -- and the peds tend to think they are doing the parents a favor, because with the ASD dx brings insurance coverage.

When money is involved, no grand conspiracy is needed. Most everyone is incentivized to go on the path that gets money for services for the child.

Developmental pediatricians aren't incentivized to give autism diagnoses. If it's a fact, please cite an actual reputable source. You can't.

You're just pathetic as well as paranoid. Please get some counseling.

No, I'm accurate and realistic. First of all, incentivized doesn't just mean money. Got a dictionary handy? No? Here's a definition from Oxford:


in·cen·tiv·ize
[in?sen(t)??v?z]
VERB

provide (someone) with an incentive for doing something

In this case, doctors want to get insurance coverage for therapy for kids that come to see them.



Here's one off the top of my head example:

http://www.unstrange.com/reviews_timemag.html

TIME Magazine


Thursday, Jan. 11, 2007
What Autism Epidemic?
By Claudia Wallis

MORE HELP, LESS STIGMA As services have become more available for kids with autism, more parents are seeking a diagnosis they would have shunned 30 years ago, when psychiatrists still blamed autism on chilly "refrigerator" mothers. Doctors are also more willing to apply the diagnosis to help a patient. "I'll call a kid a zebra if it will get him the educational services I think he needs," National Institute of Mental Health psychiatrist Judith Rapoport told Grinker.

A quote isn't isn't proof of anything, let alone that doctors have incentive for insurance purposes.

Since you like definitions, here's one: evidence, "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."

Dictionary definition of paranoid = YOU.

Doctors, like ours, do have an incentive. With an autism diagnosis, we can get ABA, speech, OT and PT, without much difficulty. Before we had the diagnosis, we had to private pay services and they would not cover it. Doctor wanted child in services, so doctor gives the diagnosis to make sure we can get the diagnosis paid for. Many insurances only pay for services under autism.

They aren't getting kick-backs, but they are doing it to get kids services that kids may not have access to depending on the parents financial situation.

We go the diagnosis after a 30 minute visit, mostly talking to me. Our follow-ups are 15-20 minutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not paranoia -- it's a fact of life that diagnosis follows the money trail. Developmental pediatricians often just give an autism label with very little testing. I know multiple people this has happened to -- and the peds tend to think they are doing the parents a favor, because with the ASD dx brings insurance coverage.

When money is involved, no grand conspiracy is needed. Most everyone is incentivized to go on the path that gets money for services for the child.

Developmental pediatricians aren't incentivized to give autism diagnoses. If it's a fact, please cite an actual reputable source. You can't.

You're just pathetic as well as paranoid. Please get some counseling.

No, I'm accurate and realistic. First of all, incentivized doesn't just mean money. Got a dictionary handy? No? Here's a definition from Oxford:


in·cen·tiv·ize
[in?sen(t)??v?z]
VERB

provide (someone) with an incentive for doing something

In this case, doctors want to get insurance coverage for therapy for kids that come to see them.



Here's one off the top of my head example:

http://www.unstrange.com/reviews_timemag.html

TIME Magazine


Thursday, Jan. 11, 2007
What Autism Epidemic?
By Claudia Wallis

MORE HELP, LESS STIGMA As services have become more available for kids with autism, more parents are seeking a diagnosis they would have shunned 30 years ago, when psychiatrists still blamed autism on chilly "refrigerator" mothers. Doctors are also more willing to apply the diagnosis to help a patient. "I'll call a kid a zebra if it will get him the educational services I think he needs," National Institute of Mental Health psychiatrist Judith Rapoport told Grinker.

A quote isn't isn't proof of anything, let alone that doctors have incentive for insurance purposes.

Since you like definitions, here's one: evidence, "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."

Dictionary definition of paranoid = YOU.

Doctors, like ours, do have an incentive. With an autism diagnosis, we can get ABA, speech, OT and PT, without much difficulty. Before we had the diagnosis, we had to private pay services and they would not cover it. Doctor wanted child in services, so doctor gives the diagnosis to make sure we can get the diagnosis paid for. Many insurances only pay for services under autism.

They aren't getting kick-backs, but they are doing it to get kids services that kids may not have access to depending on the parents financial situation.

We go the diagnosis after a 30 minute visit, mostly talking to me. Our follow-ups are 15-20 minutes.

Do you realize that your personal experience isn't generalizable to most people's experiences? Your kid getting insurance coverage for services like ST or OT does nothing for the doctor. Developmental pediatricians have more patients than they know what to do with--that's why the waits are so long.

Maybe you were the exception to the rule. Maybe your doctor gave you a diagnosis out of pity. Maybe your kid actually has autism.

[Anonymous]

"We go the diagnosis after a 30 minute visit, mostly talking to me. Our follow-ups are 15-20 minutes."

Need a new doctor--- typical experience is hours of testing, questionnaires for the parents and teachers and more than one appointment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
"We go the diagnosis after a 30 minute visit, mostly talking to me. Our follow-ups are 15-20 minutes."

Need a new doctor--- typical experience is hours of testing, questionnaires for the parents and teachers and more than one appointment.

Not really. This kind of drive by diagnosis is very common. Most of the parent in my group didn't have hours of testing --they couldn't afford it. Some d venture just went with labels from the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"We go the diagnosis after a 30 minute visit, mostly talking to me. Our follow-ups are 15-20 minutes."

Need a new doctor--- typical experience is hours of testing, questionnaires for the parents and teachers and more than one appointment.

Not really. This kind of drive by diagnosis is very common. Most of the parent in my group didn't have hours of testing --they couldn't afford it. Some d venture just went with labels from the school.

The MERLD mom strikes again.

Again the anecdotal evidence from your group doesn't prove that doctors are handy out autism diagnoses willy nilly and/or are incentivized in any way to do so by insurance groups. "Labels" from the school aren't a medical diagnosis.

MERLD hasn't been in the DSM since 2013 and won't get you an IEP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"We go the diagnosis after a 30 minute visit, mostly talking to me. Our follow-ups are 15-20 minutes."

Need a new doctor--- typical experience is hours of testing, questionnaires for the parents and teachers and more than one appointment.

Not really. This kind of drive by diagnosis is very common. Most of the parent in my group didn't have hours of testing --they couldn't afford it. Some d venture just went with labels from the school.

The MERLD mom strikes again.

Again the anecdotal evidence from your group doesn't prove that doctors are handy out autism diagnoses willy nilly and/or are incentivized in any way to do so by insurance groups. "Labels" from the school aren't a medical diagnosis.

MERLD hasn't been in the DSM since 2013 and won't get you an IEP.

Your blind anger prevents you from reading properly. People aren't saying they are incentivized by personal gain to go with an ASD diagnosis. They are saying the doctors are more willing to give out ASDs because it helps their patients get therapies.

[Anonymous]

It's not hard to find dozens of articles about the overdiagnosing of autism. The whole DSM 5 rewrite of ASDs was designed to make the diagnosis harder to get. I guess we will have to await a few years to see if that is the case. But you have to do your due diligence as a parent to really understand the landscape of how children are being diagnosed these days.





http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/01/opinion/aspergers-history-of-over-diagnosis.html?_r=0

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-health/study-suggests-autism-being-overdiagnosed-n450671


Autism may be overdiagnosed in as many as 9 percent of children, U.S. government researchers reported Friday.

It might be because autism covers such a broad range of symptoms and behaviors and is difficult to diagnose, and it may also be because increasing awareness about autism means there are resources to help kids who get the diagnosis, the team at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the University of Washington found.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/04/1-in-68-children-now-has-a-diagnosis-of-autism-spectrum-disorder-why/360482/

What gets lost in the debate is an awareness of how the younger in age we assess for problems, the greater the potential a slow-to-mature kid will be given a false diagnosis. In fact, as we venture into more tender years to screen for autism, we need to be reminded that the period of greatest diagnostic uncertainty is probably toddlerhood. A 2007 study out of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill found that over 30 percent of children diagnosed as autistic at age two no longer fit the diagnosis at age four. Since ASD is still generally considered to be a life-long neuropsychiatric condition that is not shed as childhood unfolds, we have to wonder if a large percentage of toddlers get a diagnosis that is of questionable applicability in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Op here. I think I mentioned this in my first post but I have a friend whose son had an ASD diagnosis at age 2 and by 5 it was removed. He's since actually proven to be hyperlexic and was incredibly skilled with large numbers at around age 3.5-4. He has interests in things like bridges, roads and routes and things like that and what it seems like happened is when he was younger, his brain was simply working on things too complex for him to adequately process and it presented as autism but as he got older and could better handle it, he no longer presented as ASD and does not have that label any longer nor an IEP. So he seems to have definitely been in that group of kids diagnosed too young and wrongly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"We go the diagnosis after a 30 minute visit, mostly talking to me. Our follow-ups are 15-20 minutes."

Need a new doctor--- typical experience is hours of testing, questionnaires for the parents and teachers and more than one appointment.

Not really. This kind of drive by diagnosis is very common. Most of the parent in my group didn't have hours of testing --they couldn't afford it. Some d venture just went with labels from the school.

The MERLD mom strikes again.

Again the anecdotal evidence from your group doesn't prove that doctors are handy out autism diagnoses willy nilly and/or are incentivized in any way to do so by insurance groups. "Labels" from the school aren't a medical diagnosis.

MERLD hasn't been in the DSM since 2013 and won't get you an IEP.

Your blind anger prevents you from reading properly. People aren't saying they are incentivized by personal gain to go with an ASD diagnosis. They are saying the doctors are more willing to give out ASDs because it helps their patients get therapies.

I already wrote that that FAPE inflates the actual number of kids with autism, but that's b/c of the limited designations for which you can get an IEP. This "label" isn't the same thing as an independent evaluation.

Read the entire thread. The MERLD mom said over and over on this thread (and others) that the doctors give out autism diagnoses so kids come see them or are incentivized by the insurance companies to give an ASD diagnosis. This is hogwash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I think I mentioned this in my first post but I have a friend whose son had an ASD diagnosis at age 2 and by 5 it was removed. He's since actually proven to be hyperlexic and was incredibly skilled with large numbers at around age 3.5-4. He has interests in things like bridges, roads and routes and things like that and what it seems like happened is when he was younger, his brain was simply working on things too complex for him to adequately process and it presented as autism but as he got older and could better handle it, he no longer presented as ASD and does not have that label any longer nor an IEP. So he seems to have definitely been in that group of kids diagnosed too young and wrongly.

What it shows that child development and diagnostics are fluid. He presented enough at the time of his evaluation to be given an autism diagnosis. Early intervention obviously helped. His re-assessments should that it wasn't on the spectrum, so either he has no new diagnosis or a different one. (I do know plenty of kids on the spectrum who don't have IEPs.)

[Anonymous]

I am one parent who doesn't care what the diagnosis is as long as they pay for services. I can't afford the massive rounds of private tests, and on the two rounds of testing we did do, my child got so stressed and poorly behaved (he kept telling me he was stupid and bad at school because he was figuring out that the testing wasn't "normal") that I declared a moratorium on testing for a couple of years. He did much better in school, and because he got the ASD label slapped on him, he's been getting a bunch of services, including the ones I really wanted for him, like OT.

I don't think it is ASD (they said in the old charts this would have been HFA or Aspergers), and this year we will look into ADHD because he's older now and that's more what it always seemed like. But in elementary school, a label is just a label, and if it gets lots of in-school support and services, I'm for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am one parent who doesn't care what the diagnosis is as long as they pay for services. I can't afford the massive rounds of private tests, and on the two rounds of testing we did do, my child got so stressed and poorly behaved (he kept telling me he was stupid and bad at school because he was figuring out that the testing wasn't "normal") that I declared a moratorium on testing for a couple of years. He did much better in school, and because he got the ASD label slapped on him, he's been getting a bunch of services, including the ones I really wanted for him, like OT.

I don't think it is ASD (they said in the old charts this would have been HFA or Aspergers), and this year we will look into ADHD because he's older now and that's more what it always seemed like. But in elementary school, a label is just a label, and if it gets lots of in-school support and services, I'm for it.

Gosh, I have wondered about this before too. The testing situation is so stressful for them and after years of doing evaluations and such, they know when they are being evaluated and assessed, and mine stresses over whether she's giving the "right" responses or not. It makes you wish they could just somehow invisibly observe the kids in their natural environments (school, family, activities) and base more of their findings off that. It seems only natural that the kids will perhaps not be themselves when they're in an acutely stressful evaluation situation and that might influence findings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"We go the diagnosis after a 30 minute visit, mostly talking to me. Our follow-ups are 15-20 minutes."

Need a new doctor--- typical experience is hours of testing, questionnaires for the parents and teachers and more than one appointment.

Not really. This kind of drive by diagnosis is very common. Most of the parent in my group didn't have hours of testing --they couldn't afford it. Some d venture just went with labels from the school.

The MERLD mom strikes again.

Again the anecdotal evidence from your group doesn't prove that doctors are handy out autism diagnoses willy nilly and/or are incentivized in any way to do so by insurance groups. "Labels" from the school aren't a medical diagnosis.

MERLD hasn't been in the DSM since 2013 and won't get you an IEP.

Your blind anger prevents you from reading properly. People aren't saying they are incentivized by personal gain to go with an ASD diagnosis. They are saying the doctors are more willing to give out ASDs because it helps their patients get therapies.

I already wrote that that FAPE inflates the actual number of kids with autism, but that's b/c of the limited designations for which you can get an IEP. This "label" isn't the same thing as an independent evaluation.

Read the entire thread. The MERLD mom said over and over on this thread (and others) that the doctors give out autism diagnoses so kids come see them or are incentivized by the insurance companies to give an ASD diagnosis. This is hogwash.

9:12 poster looks like a good example of this very idea, and there's more than one poster on this thread who has said they took the ASD label they thought was wrong so they'd get services. So, not hogwash at all.