Why is everything now just ASD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

"Candidly, there is no doubt in my mind that toddlers with ASD can be reliably identified and that early intervention is potentially highly effective in reducing long-term ASD symptomology..."

--Stephen Camarata

Way to cut off the quote.

[Anonymous]

Why don't you two get a room?

You are no longer having a constructive conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not hard to find dozens of articles about the overdiagnosing of autism. The whole DSM 5 rewrite of ASDs was designed to make the diagnosis harder to get. I guess we will have to await a few years to see if that is the case. But you have to do your due diligence as a parent to really understand the landscape of how children are being diagnosed these days.

It's not hard to find salacious headlines, PP, but it's obviously hard for you to actually read the articles you quoted.

Asperger’s History of Overdiagnosis (which is an opinion piece—not proof and not relevant since Aspergers is no longer a diagnosis)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/01/opinion/aspergers-history-of-over-diagnosis.html?_r=0

"A 1992 United States Department of Education directive contributed to the overdiagnosis of Asperger syndrome. It called for enhanced services for children diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum and for children with “pervasive developmental disorder — not otherwise specified (P.D.D.-N.O.S.),” a diagnosis in which children with social disabilities could be lumped. The diagnosis of Asperger syndrome went through the roof. Curiously, in California, where children with P.D.D.-N.O.S. were not given enhanced services, autism-spectrum diagnoses did not increase. (through the roof? yeah, real scientific is that the same as a bushel and a peck?)

--Again, school designations are [b]not medical diagnoses.[/b]
[/b]

Actually, no. Read Dr. Camarata's WHOLE article, which was much more nuanced that you let on.

To the Asperger's quote, it's really the same thing. Diagnosis goes through the roof when someone will pay for services.

Anyway, like I said: You are free to believe what you want. You are not correct, and many people on this thread have told you that their firsthand experience does not agree with your theory.

The Dr. Camarata piece is a great find; although sadly, it does not say what you think it says. Take a deep breath, and read it all the way through with an open mind.

You are more stupid then I thought you were and you obviously didn't read the Camarata article since he writes,

"In the US, individual states have latitude in establishing criteria for early intervention eligibility, so it is possible for a child with language disorders who otherwise does not meet the DSM criteria for ASD diagnosis to be eligible for enrollment in early intervention services under special education ASD criteria. That is, the child may not receive an ASD medical diagnosis but be eligible for ASD special education services."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not hard to find dozens of articles about the overdiagnosing of autism. The whole DSM 5 rewrite of ASDs was designed to make the diagnosis harder to get. I guess we will have to await a few years to see if that is the case. But you have to do your due diligence as a parent to really understand the landscape of how children are being diagnosed these days.

It's not hard to find salacious headlines, PP, but it's obviously hard for you to actually read the articles you quoted.

Asperger’s History of Overdiagnosis (which is an opinion piece—not proof and not relevant since Aspergers is no longer a diagnosis)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/01/opinion/aspergers-history-of-over-diagnosis.html?_r=0

"A 1992 United States Department of Education directive contributed to the overdiagnosis of Asperger syndrome. It called for enhanced services for children diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum and for children with “pervasive developmental disorder — not otherwise specified (P.D.D.-N.O.S.),” a diagnosis in which children with social disabilities could be lumped. The diagnosis of Asperger syndrome went through the roof. Curiously, in California, where children with P.D.D.-N.O.S. were not given enhanced services, autism-spectrum diagnoses did not increase. (through the roof? yeah, real scientific is that the same as a bushel and a peck?)

--Again, school designations are [b]not medical diagnoses.[/b]
[/b]

Actually, no. Read Dr. Camarata's WHOLE article, which was much more nuanced that you let on.

To the Asperger's quote, it's really the same thing. Diagnosis goes through the roof when someone will pay for services.

Anyway, like I said: You are free to believe what you want. You are not correct, and many people on this thread have told you that their firsthand experience does not agree with your theory.

The Dr. Camarata piece is a great find; although sadly, it does not say what you think it says. Take a deep breath, and read it all the way through with an open mind.

You are more stupid then I thought you were and you obviously didn't read the Camarata article since he writes,

"In the US, individual states have latitude in establishing criteria for early intervention eligibility, so it is possible for a child with language disorders who otherwise does not meet the DSM criteria for ASD diagnosis to be eligible for enrollment in early intervention services under special education ASD criteria. That is, the child may not receive an ASD medical diagnosis but be eligible for ASD special education services."

Charming. Again, I've sat down with Dr. Camarata for many hours. This is a great article, with lots of good information -- for people who really are paying attention to what he's writing.

[Anonymous]

Have him explain the big words to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you two get a room?

You are no longer having a constructive conversation.

+1000 I started a separate thread for you to continue on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not hard to find dozens of articles about the overdiagnosing of autism. The whole DSM 5 rewrite of ASDs was designed to make the diagnosis harder to get. I guess we will have to await a few years to see if that is the case. But you have to do your due diligence as a parent to really understand the landscape of how children are being diagnosed these days.

It's not hard to find salacious headlines, PP, but it's obviously hard for you to actually read the articles you quoted.

Asperger’s History of Overdiagnosis (which is an opinion piece—not proof and not relevant since Aspergers is no longer a diagnosis)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/01/opinion/aspergers-history-of-over-diagnosis.html?_r=0

"A 1992 United States Department of Education directive contributed to the overdiagnosis of Asperger syndrome. It called for enhanced services for children diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum and for children with “pervasive developmental disorder — not otherwise specified (P.D.D.-N.O.S.),” a diagnosis in which children with social disabilities could be lumped. The diagnosis of Asperger syndrome went through the roof. Curiously, in California, where children with P.D.D.-N.O.S. were not given enhanced services, autism-spectrum diagnoses did not increase. (through the roof? yeah, real scientific is that the same as a bushel and a peck?)

--Again, school designations are [b]not medical diagnoses.[/b]
[/b]

Actually, no. Read Dr. Camarata's WHOLE article, which was much more nuanced that you let on.

To the Asperger's quote, it's really the same thing. Diagnosis goes through the roof when someone will pay for services.

Anyway, like I said: You are free to believe what you want. You are not correct, and many people on this thread have told you that their firsthand experience does not agree with your theory.

The Dr. Camarata piece is a great find; although sadly, it does not say what you think it says. Take a deep breath, and read it all the way through with an open mind.

You are more stupid then I thought you were and you obviously didn't read the Camarata article since he writes,

"In the US, individual states have latitude in establishing criteria for early intervention eligibility, so it is possible for a child with language disorders who otherwise does not meet the DSM criteria for ASD diagnosis to be eligible for enrollment in early intervention services under special education ASD criteria. That is, the child may not receive an ASD medical diagnosis but be eligible for ASD special education services."

He's not saying this like it's a good thing; just that it is a fact. In our case, he told us not to take the ASD label the school wanted to give us. The district tried to tell us it was the only way we'd get services for our child; but after having Dr. Camarata at the IEP meeting, we came away with every service we wanted, and no ASD educational label.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI, Ivymount Outreach also has a social skills group just for girls.

Op here. Part of the reason I'm not totally sold on ASD being a possibility for my daughter is her social skills are fine. She doesn't struggle at all there- lots of friends, participates in activities. She misses unspoken things like passive aggression and sarcasm (the pragmatics issue) but other than that, does not struggle at all with social skills or in social situations.

if she does fine socially it is not autism, period. is it even age appropriate to expect 7 year olds to understand sarcasm and passive aggression? it sounds like you might be over-focusing on things within the range of normal as you try to sort out the actually functionally problematic stuff.

I'm not trying to focus specifically on anything. I'm simply trying to see if what professionals suggest for my kid fit her. The specialist mentioned the things like sarcasm, someone leaving her out on purpose but not telling her why (passive aggression) as things that she is not correctly perceiving or noticing. Since she knew my DD's age and mentioned those, I assumed she meant those were age appropriate things she should be picking up on now.

I am absolutely seeking all avenues of helping her and am not swayed in any one particular direction as to what she has or doesn't have. I have no hang ups about any potential diagnoses. I just brought up ASD because it was mentioned to us as a possibility for the first time and I was curious since I could see my daughter meeting the standard for PDD which is no longer in existence, but not ASD since she lacks many of the things for that diagnosis. But, if she would have been PDD at one time although not ASD, she would now be ASD simply for showing the signs of PDD I would assume... It's hard to get your brain around!

PDD was kind of a vague catchall that nobody could agree on what it should contain. Some of those kids would now be ASD. Others might SCD. And still others might just be "quirky."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not hard to find dozens of articles about the overdiagnosing of autism. The whole DSM 5 rewrite of ASDs was designed to make the diagnosis harder to get. I guess we will have to await a few years to see if that is the case. But you have to do your due diligence as a parent to really understand the landscape of how children are being diagnosed these days.

It's not hard to find salacious headlines, PP, but it's obviously hard for you to actually read the articles you quoted.

Asperger’s History of Overdiagnosis (which is an opinion piece—not proof and not relevant since Aspergers is no longer a diagnosis)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/01/opinion/aspergers-history-of-over-diagnosis.html?_r=0

"A 1992 United States Department of Education directive contributed to the overdiagnosis of Asperger syndrome. It called for enhanced services for children diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum and for children with “pervasive developmental disorder — not otherwise specified (P.D.D.-N.O.S.),” a diagnosis in which children with social disabilities could be lumped. The diagnosis of Asperger syndrome went through the roof. Curiously, in California, where children with P.D.D.-N.O.S. were not given enhanced services, autism-spectrum diagnoses did not increase. (through the roof? yeah, real scientific is that the same as a bushel and a peck?)

--Again, school designations are [b]not medical diagnoses.[/b]
[/b]

Actually, no. Read Dr. Camarata's WHOLE article, which was much more nuanced that you let on.

To the Asperger's quote, it's really the same thing. Diagnosis goes through the roof when someone will pay for services.

Anyway, like I said: You are free to believe what you want. You are not correct, and many people on this thread have told you that their firsthand experience does not agree with your theory.

The Dr. Camarata piece is a great find; although sadly, it does not say what you think it says. Take a deep breath, and read it all the way through with an open mind.

You are more stupid then I thought you were and you obviously didn't read the Camarata article since he writes,

"In the US, individual states have latitude in establishing criteria for early intervention eligibility, so it is possible for a child with language disorders who otherwise does not meet the DSM criteria for ASD diagnosis to be eligible for enrollment in early intervention services under special education ASD criteria. That is, the child may not receive an ASD medical diagnosis but be eligible for ASD special education services."

He's not saying this like it's a good thing; just that it is a fact. In our case, he told us not to take the ASD label the school wanted to give us. The district tried to tell us it was the only way we'd get services for our child; but after having Dr. Camarata at the IEP meeting, we came away with every service we wanted, and no ASD educational label.

No one is saying that it's a good thing. You're lucky you can pay for Dr. Camarata to advocate for you personally at your IEP meetings. Most people can't afford that. You are fortunate that you got every service you wanted. So many people struggle to just get the basics.

Dr. Camarata will tell you in person not just in what he writes professionally that educational labels are not the same as medical diagnoses and that they artificially inflate the number of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[
PDD was kind of a vague catchall that nobody could agree on what it should contain. Some of those kids would now be ASD. Others might SCD. And still others might just be "quirky."

This. I found this book, "8 Keys to Raising the Quirky Kid" to be an invaluable resource for my kid, who is sitting on some of these lines. This book goes into when to seek a diagnosis vs not, and tips to help quirky kids in general. https://www.amazon.com/Keys-Raising-Quirky-Child-Doesnt/dp/0393709205

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not hard to find dozens of articles about the overdiagnosing of autism. The whole DSM 5 rewrite of ASDs was designed to make the diagnosis harder to get. I guess we will have to await a few years to see if that is the case. But you have to do your due diligence as a parent to really understand the landscape of how children are being diagnosed these days.

It's not hard to find salacious headlines, PP, but it's obviously hard for you to actually read the articles you quoted.

Asperger’s History of Overdiagnosis (which is an opinion piece—not proof and not relevant since Aspergers is no longer a diagnosis)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/01/opinion/aspergers-history-of-over-diagnosis.html?_r=0

"A 1992 United States Department of Education directive contributed to the overdiagnosis of Asperger syndrome. It called for enhanced services for children diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum and for children with “pervasive developmental disorder — not otherwise specified (P.D.D.-N.O.S.),” a diagnosis in which children with social disabilities could be lumped. The diagnosis of Asperger syndrome went through the roof. Curiously, in California, where children with P.D.D.-N.O.S. were not given enhanced services, autism-spectrum diagnoses did not increase. (through the roof? yeah, real scientific is that the same as a bushel and a peck?)

--Again, school designations are [b]not medical diagnoses.[/b]
[/b]

Actually, no. Read Dr. Camarata's WHOLE article, which was much more nuanced that you let on.

To the Asperger's quote, it's really the same thing. Diagnosis goes through the roof when someone will pay for services.

Anyway, like I said: You are free to believe what you want. You are not correct, and many people on this thread have told you that their firsthand experience does not agree with your theory.

The Dr. Camarata piece is a great find; although sadly, it does not say what you think it says. Take a deep breath, and read it all the way through with an open mind.

You are more stupid then I thought you were and you obviously didn't read the Camarata article since he writes,

"In the US, individual states have latitude in establishing criteria for early intervention eligibility, so it is possible for a child with language disorders who otherwise does not meet the DSM criteria for ASD diagnosis to be eligible for enrollment in early intervention services under special education ASD criteria. That is, the child may not receive an ASD medical diagnosis but be eligible for ASD special education services."

He's not saying this like it's a good thing; just that it is a fact. In our case, he told us not to take the ASD label the school wanted to give us. The district tried to tell us it was the only way we'd get services for our child; but after having Dr. Camarata at the IEP meeting, we came away with every service we wanted, and no ASD educational label.

No one is saying that it's a good thing. You're lucky you can pay for Dr. Camarata to advocate for you personally at your IEP meetings. Most people can't afford that. You are fortunate that you got every service you wanted. So many people struggle to just get the basics.

Dr. Camarata will tell you in person not just in what he writes professionally that educational labels are not the same as medical diagnoses and that they artificially inflate the number of kids.

Because Dr. Camarata works for Vanderbilt, his fees are very reasonable compared to evaluators in this area. Not that poster, but we went as it was cheaper even with travel costs for a few days vs. paying a local evaluation. I am surprised he'd go to an IEP. This must have been years ago or he was in the area for something else. We got a lousy report writing by the SLP who was in the room who was terrible. It was raw test scores, with no diagnosis, recommendations, etc. so the report was useless. We called and emailed and he was not responsive. He's great in person but he's gotten too busy between work and his book writing/tours to really be as effective as he used to be. His wife is also affordable from what I understand. So, its not about a luxury, but about being affortable. Plus, he can connect easily to kids making the evaluation more successful. A local evaluation would have been 3 times as much.

[Anonymous]

Flying to see Dr. Camarata and staying in Nashville is a luxury most people can't afford. It may be doable and/or worth the investment for some people, but make no mistake, saying that it's affordable is like Gwyneth Paltrow making a meals for the week on $29.

[Anonymous]

How can flying to Nashville be cheaper than going to Children's or KKI, where insurance covers the eval??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How can flying to Nashville be cheaper than going to Children's or KKI, where insurance covers the eval??

Exactly.

Dr. Camarata is just speech. So if your kid only has a communication disorder, all fine and dandy. But he's not qualified to diagnose things like CP or DCD that can also affect speech.