Teachers, is it true that most of the parents you deal with think their children are 'gifted'?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:left out one thing: 75% of children in my neighborhood are accepted to AAP.

How can they accommodate 75%? I take it this is not like HGC in MCPS. Curious

1. it's 75% in that neighborhood, not the whole district
2. FCPS's AAP program takes about top 15 to 20% of the entire district; MCPS HGC takes in top 2%.

In my mind, MCPS does it right. An area's gifted population is about 2 to 3% of the top. If many of the students in the area are very bright, then the home school should be able to serve them adequately (yes, it's an assumption). A true "gifted" program should serve the top 2 to 3% of the student population of that area.

Agreed. I heard that something like 40% of MCPS tests as gifted (not sure of the source of that). So you are correct that the home school should be able to accommodate that.

We are in MCPS. That figure is correct, however, I always thought that 40% is compared to national test scores. So, 40% of MCPS kids test in the top 2 to 3 % *nationally*. However, within in MCPS, the HGC only serves the top 2-3% and is a different test altogether.

Either that, or MCPS benchmark for gifted is way too low. I'm glad the HGC only serves the top 2 - 3%.

what national test are they giving? I honestly don't know - as we only have a second grader. She did take Inview - is that national?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:left out one thing: 75% of children in my neighborhood are accepted to AAP.

How can they accommodate 75%? I take it this is not like HGC in MCPS. Curious

1. it's 75% in that neighborhood, not the whole district
2. FCPS's AAP program takes about top 15 to 20% of the entire district; MCPS HGC takes in top 2%.

In my mind, MCPS does it right. An area's gifted population is about 2 to 3% of the top. If many of the students in the area are very bright, then the home school should be able to serve them adequately (yes, it's an assumption). A true "gifted" program should serve the top 2 to 3% of the student population of that area.

Agreed. I heard that something like 40% of MCPS tests as gifted (not sure of the source of that). So you are correct that the home school should be able to accommodate that.

We are in MCPS. That figure is correct, however, I always thought that 40% is compared to national test scores. So, 40% of MCPS kids test in the top 2 to 3 % *nationally*. However, within in MCPS, the HGC only serves the top 2-3% and is a different test altogether.

Either that, or MCPS benchmark for gifted is way too low. I'm glad the HGC only serves the top 2 - 3%.

what national test are they giving? I honestly don't know - as we only have a second grader. She did take Inview - is that national?

It's national in a sense that other school districts do use them. Like I stated, it's my assumption that the %ile is based on *all* the kids taking the tests, across the country, and not just MCPS. Maybe it explains it on the results that are sent home. I can't remember, and honestly, right now can't be bothered to go look.

[Anonymous]

All these tests that demonstrate that your child is gifted are culturally, linguistically, and economically biased. At best they measure a small slice of a person's ability. At worst they are measuring economic status. As an example, my daughter taught algebra to a class of kids who were struggling in a school in a working class neighborhood. Many of these kids were working after school or were responsible for younger siblings. Some had substance abuse issues. None had ever had a tutor, been "enriched" at home or had taken a gifted class. Algebra 1 is important because if you don't pass you can't graduate from high school. She really started over with them teaching basic math in a very creative way using multiple approaches. They worked in groups and if they worked hard she bought them pizza. She called and spoke to every parent about the importance of the class in Spanish, English or using an interpreter in other languages and asked for their support. At the end of the year they took the MCPS Algebra 1 final and over 80 percent passed. (That's a rate higher than the W schools.) One student scored 100 percent. He is gifted.

[Anonymous]

To the pp, your daughter is a gifted teacher.

[Anonymous]

Thank you. She is a career changer from a higher paying field; this is her life's calling. We are very proud
of her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All these tests that demonstrate that your child is gifted are culturally, linguistically, and economically biased. At best they measure a small slice of a person's ability. At worst they are measuring economic status. As an example, my daughter taught algebra to a class of kids who were struggling in a school in a working class neighborhood. Many of these kids were working after school or were responsible for younger siblings. Some had substance abuse issues. None had ever had a tutor, been "enriched" at home or had taken a gifted class. Algebra 1 is important because if you don't pass you can't graduate from high school. She really started over with them teaching basic math in a very creative way using multiple approaches. They worked in groups and if they worked hard she bought them pizza. She called and spoke to every parent about the importance of the class in Spanish, English or using an interpreter in other languages and asked for their support. At the end of the year they took the MCPS Algebra 1 final and over 80 percent passed. (That's a rate higher than the W schools.) One student scored 100 percent. He is gifted.

Completely agree. Congrats to your daughter.

[Anonymous]

As a product of a W school in MoCo - many of the kids who were in the "gifted" classes in elementary did not end up excelling in HS or going to top colleges - and many kids who were not did. I know national merit finalists who have spent their lives struggling with addiction. I know kids who everyone said were the most gifted in elementary school who are now regular teachers themselves (not that there's anything wrong with that, but they didn't end up with a Nobel prize). I know kids who were pushed to excel who now as adults want nothing to do with their parents. Many of the kids who went to top colleges are not thriving post academic life and vice versa. Etc. And remember the context is a place where 95+% are going to 4 year colleges and HHI levels mean nearly everyone is middle to high affluent. The culture of parents focusing on status achievement via their kids is more toxic than helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here.
re actual gifted kids--I have been teaching for 35 years in this area, where everyone in a certain type pf school (you know the ones: privates, but also higher SES publics. I haven't done much in charters but hear from friends there that it's even worse) thinks that their children are the smartest snowflakes in the world and are clearly Highly Gifted. I get at least three, but usually more like eight or ten or twelve, parents at the beginning of each year when I am teaching at those schools who tell me that their child is Highly Gifted. Those are just the ones that use that term. Others say "gifted" in a whisper as if they are ashamed of it, which they are not.
I've taught thousands of students. Less than half a dozen have been really, truly, honestly highly gifted, in the sense that their brains are really wired in a way that I cannot even explain and in the ways that they retain and understand information. Doesn't mean that the other kids aren't smart, or even gifted in some areas, but there is a difference, and parents around here are fairly delusional about it.

We had teachers like you. So glad we changed schools.

NP here...why? What did she say that was wrong or offensive to you?

Because there are 11,000 students in FCPS who are 'gifted" by their standards, and this teacher has never seen one. She is confusing gifted with prodigy. I am a teacher also and I have seen 2 prodigies. But this makes some teachers very angry. I don't know why.

you're right, i misspoke. I meant profoundly gifted, kids with IQs over or well over 160. clearly i was not one of them. i've had tons and tons of kids who are gifted but only a small handful were so smart that there was basically nothing I could do for them in a classroom but let them explore whatever they liked.
(I also don't teach in FCPS)
I've loved every kid I have ever taught. Not just the smarties! I have not loved every parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've actually never met an Asian parent that wasn't utterly disappointed with their child. I've rarely met an Asian child that wasn't successful in almost everything.

My child is average, I fully admit it but I believe it's his average abilities that have forced him to learn how to earn things. Who knows how this will play out in hs and college but it's been great for other childhood disciplines.

You obviously havent met very many Asians in that case.

[Anonymous]

"



As a product of a W school in MoCo - many of the kids who were in the "gifted" classes in elementary did not end up excelling in HS or going to top colleges - and many kids who were not did. I know national merit finalists who have spent their lives struggling with addiction. I know kids who everyone said were the most gifted in elementary school who are now regular teachers themselves (not that there's anything wrong with that, but they didn't end up with a Nobel prize). I know kids who were pushed to excel who now as adults want nothing to do with their parents. Many of the kids who went to top colleges are not thriving post academic life and vice versa. Etc. And remember the context is a place where 95+% are going to 4 year colleges and HHI levels mean nearly everyone is middle to high affluent. The culture of parents focusing on status achievement via their kids is more toxic than helpful."

And?? Underachievement and school rejection are pretty common with gifted kids. This thread, like many like it here, reads as if "gifted" is a label to be bragged about. Most parents of gifted kids know that giftedness can be as much of a curse as a blessing, often more so. Many wish their kids were a little more "normal" and a lot more easier to parent. The problem is, we're confusing true giftedness with MoCo top 25% "giftedness," a very apples and oranges comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've actually never met an Asian parent that wasn't utterly disappointed with their child. I've rarely met an Asian child that wasn't successful in almost everything.

My child is average, I fully admit it but I believe it's his average abilities that have forced him to learn how to earn things. Who knows how this will play out in hs and college but it's been great for other childhood disciplines.

You obviously havent met very many Asians in that case.

+1 I don't know where that PP lives, but as an Asian, my parents are quite proud of me. My dad has even told me this, though I think some of this is due to him just getting more sappy as he gets older. My mother, OTH, is a bit disappointed that I am not more of a dutiful child

And I have several cousins and a couple of siblings that are not "successful" by DCUM and apparently "Asian" standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"



As a product of a W school in MoCo - many of the kids who were in the "gifted" classes in elementary did not end up excelling in HS or going to top colleges - and many kids who were not did. I know national merit finalists who have spent their lives struggling with addiction. I know kids who everyone said were the most gifted in elementary school who are now regular teachers themselves (not that there's anything wrong with that, but they didn't end up with a Nobel prize). I know kids who were pushed to excel who now as adults want nothing to do with their parents. Many of the kids who went to top colleges are not thriving post academic life and vice versa. Etc. And remember the context is a place where 95+% are going to 4 year colleges and HHI levels mean nearly everyone is middle to high affluent. The culture of parents focusing on status achievement via their kids is more toxic than helpful."

And?? Underachievement and school rejection are pretty common with gifted kids. This thread, like many like it here, reads as if "gifted" is a label to be bragged about. Most parents of gifted kids know that giftedness can be as much of a curse as a blessing, often more so. Many wish their kids were a little more "normal" and a lot more easier to parent. The problem is, we're confusing true giftedness with MoCo top 25% "giftedness," a very apples and oranges comparison.

Well put and so true.

[Anonymous]

As a parent, I hate the term gifted because it's so emotionally charged.

Many people have argued that learning to work hard is more important than being considered gifted. Unfortunately, when a child knows most of what's being taught year after year, when she tells her teacher that she already knows the material and asks for the chance to learn something new but is refused, she doesn't get the chance to work hard. She doesn't get the chance to struggle with something just a little beyond her ability and then feel the triumph that comes in getting it.

I never knew, when advocating for her if I should start with her test scores (where I would be considered one of those bragging, pushy moms more concerned with labels than my child) or whether I should start with anecdotes about my child and her feelings of frustration (where I would be considered one of those pushy moms who naturally thinks their special snowflake is gifted, whether they actually are or not). Whatever approach I took, I was usually viewed as the pushy mom, when I felt it was more a matter of my child pulling me than me pushing her.

I don't care if you call my child gifted, or high-achieving, or purple-spotted ostrich, as long as you get her what she needs

[Anonymous]

20:20 & 12:21 had wonderful posts that really sum up everything quite well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I hate the term gifted because it's so emotionally charged.

Many people have argued that learning to work hard is more important than being considered gifted. Unfortunately, when a child knows most of what's being taught year after year, when she tells her teacher that she already knows the material and asks for the chance to learn something new but is refused, she doesn't get the chance to work hard. She doesn't get the chance to struggle with something just a little beyond her ability and then feel the triumph that comes in getting it.

I never knew, when advocating for her if I should start with her test scores (where I would be considered one of those bragging, pushy moms more concerned with labels than my child) or whether I should start with anecdotes about my child and her feelings of frustration (where I would be considered one of those pushy moms who naturally thinks their special snowflake is gifted, whether they actually are or not). Whatever approach I took, I was usually viewed as the pushy mom, when I felt it was more a matter of my child pulling me than me pushing her.

I don't care if you call my child gifted, or high-achieving, or purple-spotted ostrich, as long as you get her what she needs

Agreed 1000%. My kid had become too accustomed to being the "smartest" kid in her class, and everything coming so easily to her that she didn't have to work hard for anything, or develop the resilience that comes from dealing with the psychology of working through difficulty and failure. Getting into an HGC felt very important for those reasons. If the home school differentiated and challenged gifted kids appropriately, this would not have been an issue.