Split articulation (bussing) for the new BCC Middle School?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are we talking about bussing? Almost everyone will have to be bussed, regardless of who goes where. Only the Westbrook kids can walk to Westland and only about half the current NCC kids can walk to the new school. It's not as if the CC kids will be able to walk to MS#2, they will still have to get on a bus. Yes, the trip can be shortened and I know that getting to Westland is a pain for most but most everyone will still have driving to do regardless.

Because busing is expensive and kids don't get enough sleep as it is. Why wouldn't we weigh that in the "con" column?
Alternatively, if you don't think busing matters, then let's do away with school boundaries entirely. Let's do a lottery system and everyone in MCPS can draw a number and get sent to whatever randomly assigned school they get. Because busing doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how about this for groupings:

CC, NCC, and Somerset
RCF, Bethesda, and Westbrook

One goes to one MS, the other goes to a different MS.

The groups are pretty balanced in size, probably balanced for SES and race.

Then the decision would be which group gets which building? One groups goes to Westland, another goes to MS #2.

Why not do it in such a way that busing is minimized? Saves money, allows for greater scheduling flexibility, and makes families happier. Not to mention, makes life a little less stressful for the kids (oh yeah, the kids, who cares about them?)

Because there are also other criteria to consider (which also affect the kids).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how about this for groupings:

CC, NCC, and Somerset
RCF, Bethesda, and Westbrook

One goes to one MS, the other goes to a different MS.

The groups are pretty balanced in size, probably balanced for SES and race.

Then the decision would be which group gets which building? One groups goes to Westland, another goes to MS #2.

Why not do it in such a way that busing is minimized? Saves money, allows for greater scheduling flexibility, and makes families happier. Not to mention, makes life a little less stressful for the kids (oh yeah, the kids, who cares about them?)

Because there are also other criteria to consider (which also affect the kids).

Sure, but what is the negative impact of minimizing busing? And can the saved funds from minimizing busing be used to address those impacts? Seems like the biggest problem MCPS has overall is not enough resources to do all it needs to do to meet the needs of the kids. So why opt to spend money on busing unless there is a truly compelling reason?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how about this for groupings:

CC, NCC, and Somerset
RCF, Bethesda, and Westbrook

One goes to one MS, the other goes to a different MS.

The groups are pretty balanced in size, probably balanced for SES and race.

Then the decision would be which group gets which building? One groups goes to Westland, another goes to MS #2.

Why not do it in such a way that busing is minimized? Saves money, allows for greater scheduling flexibility, and makes families happier. Not to mention, makes life a little less stressful for the kids (oh yeah, the kids, who cares about them?)

Because there are also other criteria to consider (which also affect the kids).

Sure, but what is the negative impact of minimizing busing? And can the saved funds from minimizing busing be used to address those impacts? Seems like the biggest problem MCPS has overall is not enough resources to do all it needs to do to meet the needs of the kids. So why opt to spend money on busing unless there is a truly compelling reason?

I'm not sure how you could think resources is the issue. If that was the case the FARMS schools would be the best performing. I would say that school environment via peers is actually priceless. Bus my kid to the better school anyday!

[Anonymous]

Why do I always get the feeling that when people plant their flag in the busing camp it is code for " I spent my money so I didn't have to live around the blacks, and I object you using busing to mix them into my kid's life".

I say change MoCo into open enrollment with 50% slots reserved for out of bounds kids and make elementary at the country's choice but only bus IB kids. Everybody wins, it is BS the everybody has consortium schools except the rich kids who have closed access. It is one thing when the rich people fight to keep the status quo but it is kind of sad seeing the silver spring and middle class part of Chevy Chase fight to keep their inclusion into that system. It reeks of the old saying (pull up the ladder, I am on board).

[Anonymous]

Why do I always get the feeling that when people plant their flag in the busing camp it is code for " I spent my money so I didn't have to live around the blacks, and I object you using busing to mix them into my kid's life".

I used to think that too, and I'm sure that's some of it, but don't overlook the real hassles that the busing and split articulation causes for parents of kids from Chevy Chase and North Chevy Chase whose kids are sent to RHES for K-2 and then back to neighborhood schools for 3-6. RHES is a lovely environment and very well-run, but it's a PITA to have the split. My friend with 2 kids at Woodacres can do a single dropoff and pickup; she can be there for the Halloween parade and other activities where she sees both kids; she's only got to try to be a volunteer or active PTA member at 1 school. And yes, her kids don't have to deal w/ a bus ride that ranges from 15 mins to an hour (and is rarely the same each day.)

Whereas I have same-aged kids at RHES and one of the CCs. I can't pick up the younger one from school by car ever because no one would be home to let the older one into the house. I have to choose which school I visit for various holidays and activities. I only volunteer episodically at one school and I make a passing effort at doing some PTA stuff at the other (I work FT, so this is the best I got.) And while my younger kid loves the bus, the fact that it's been in several accidents this year alone is not a huge plus in my book nor is the fact that it takes me forever to get to RHES for afterschool activity pickups. And it sucks when the kids have to separate at 3rd grade; it so happened that most of my older kid's friends were zoned for the other CC. None of those things would be an issue if Chevy Chase and North Chevy Chase were permitted K-5 neighborhood schools like almost all the other elementaries in MCPS.

So after this experience I'd much prefer a neighborhood school for K-5 and it has nothing to do with skin color or socioeconomic status. But please, go ahead, assume that I must be a racist snob. And btw no one in SS or "middle class" Chevy Chase (where is that exactly?) is responsible for preventing the PP's radical reengineering of MCPS from moving forward. The reason MCPS will never implement a plan that opens all schools up to lotteries is that it's totally unworkable in a system of this size.

[Anonymous]

Yes but you picked a school with an imposed cluster alignment because you didn't like the Silver Spring schools. You can't chose to be IB for RHES and bitch about busing, it is hypocritical. People fight to get bused to a better area and then bitch about the inconvenience of busing? If you want neighborhood schools that align with each other go to one of the organic Clusters and not some school that was court ordered to be a square peg into a round hole. If you could afford RHES you could afford nearby east silver spring elementary and you could walk to all the way to high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes but you picked a school with an imposed cluster alignment because you didn't like the Silver Spring schools. You can't chose to be IB for RHES and bitch about busing, it is hypocritical. People fight to get bused to a better area and then bitch about the inconvenience of busing? If you want neighborhood schools that align with each other go to one of the organic Clusters and not some school that was court ordered to be a square peg into a round hole. If you could afford RHES you could afford nearby east silver spring elementary and you could walk to all the way to high school.

That's a pretty big ASSumption. I'm not PP but with two kids and the same zoning I echo every word she said. And we picked this house because we loved it and weren't outbid. The other houses we bid on were in Capitol View Park.

[Anonymous]

There are plenty of good things about the K-2/3-5 split as well-- such as the fact that you never have 5th graders bullying kindergarteners on the bus-- but I don't think the pros/cons of that split have anything to do with this discussion really.

I also think Bethesda ES and CCES are pretty much in the middle of both middle school sites, so even if you consider geography the most important factor, those schools could easily go either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of good things about the K-2/3-5 split as well-- such as the fact that you never have 5th graders bullying kindergarteners on the bus-- but I don't think the pros/cons of that split have anything to do with this discussion really.

I also think Bethesda ES and CCES are pretty much in the middle of both middle school sites, so even if you consider geography the most important factor, those schools could easily go either way.

Bethesda is absolutely in the middle. CCES is towards the middle but closer to B-CC MS #2, and absolutely one of the three ESs that's closer to the mew MS than to Westland. But it's not so much the distance as it is the traffic. Getting from west of Wisconsin to east of Connecticut in the afternoon is hell on earth and should be avoided if possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why do I always get the feeling that when people plant their flag in the busing camp it is code for " I spent my money so I didn't have to live around the blacks, and I object you using busing to mix them into my kid's life".

I used to think that too, and I'm sure that's some of it, but don't overlook the real hassles that the busing and split articulation causes for parents of kids from Chevy Chase and North Chevy Chase whose kids are sent to RHES for K-2 and then back to neighborhood schools for 3-6. RHES is a lovely environment and very well-run, but it's a PITA to have the split. My friend with 2 kids at Woodacres can do a single dropoff and pickup; she can be there for the Halloween parade and other activities where she sees both kids; she's only got to try to be a volunteer or active PTA member at 1 school. And yes, her kids don't have to deal w/ a bus ride that ranges from 15 mins to an hour (and is rarely the same each day.)

Whereas I have same-aged kids at RHES and one of the CCs. I can't pick up the younger one from school by car ever because no one would be home to let the older one into the house. I have to choose which school I visit for various holidays and activities. I only volunteer episodically at one school and I make a passing effort at doing some PTA stuff at the other (I work FT, so this is the best I got.) And while my younger kid loves the bus, the fact that it's been in several accidents this year alone is not a huge plus in my book nor is the fact that it takes me forever to get to RHES for afterschool activity pickups. And it sucks when the kids have to separate at 3rd grade; it so happened that most of my older kid's friends were zoned for the other CC. None of those things would be an issue if Chevy Chase and North Chevy Chase were permitted K-5 neighborhood schools like almost all the other elementaries in MCPS.

So after this experience I'd much prefer a neighborhood school for K-5 and it has nothing to do with skin color or socioeconomic status. But please, go ahead, assume that I must be a racist snob. And btw no one in SS or "middle class" Chevy Chase (where is that exactly?) is responsible for preventing the PP's radical reengineering of MCPS from moving forward. The reason MCPS will never implement a plan that opens all schools up to lotteries is that it's totally unworkable in a system of this size.

Lucky you! I've had four kids in the RHES and NCC split. It has been a giant pain to constantly juggle the after school clubs, dentist and doctor appointments and everything else.

I do think balancing the diversity is important but believe my kids have put in their time. Another school can take on the burden of inconvenience of not being close, NCC and CCES have both done their time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sure, but what is the negative impact of minimizing busing? And can the saved funds from minimizing busing be used to address those impacts? Seems like the biggest problem MCPS has overall is not enough resources to do all it needs to do to meet the needs of the kids. So why opt to spend money on busing unless there is a truly compelling reason?

Everything is a trade-off, eh? Minimizing busing is good, maximizing socioeconomic segregation is bad. Ideally you will have just enough busing for just enough non-segregation, but optimization works a lot better in computer models than in real life with real people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Nobody wants a split articulation.

Say so loudly and repeatedly.

That isn't true, the Low HHIs will take it as a slight if the are forced out of Westland.

The principal of Westland mentioned last year at a parent night that the new middle school is going to be "a beautiful facility." I don't know why someone would want to continue to go to Westland if they could go to a beautiful new facility. Westland's facility is adequate, but nothing special for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I dont see why having to travel 30 min to school is such a big deal. I grew up going to private school and always had a 30 min commute to school. My kids are young now but I commute with them daily for over 30min to daycare. We live in the cluster and I think what is most important is ensuring both schools are equally as good and have the same expectations and ability to prepare kids to succeed at BCC and beyond.

Is not just the students commute, it is prohibitive to parent evolvement particularly for lower income.

This is a good point. This may be why it seems that the Westbrook alum parents have been the ones to step up to the plate in terms of doing a lot of the work of the PTA. I suspect it's easier for them in part because of the proximity. (I am not involved in the PTA but have observed this.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I dont see why having to travel 30 min to school is such a big deal. I grew up going to private school and always had a 30 min commute to school. My kids are young now but I commute with them daily for over 30min to daycare. We live in the cluster and I think what is most important is ensuring both schools are equally as good and have the same expectations and ability to prepare kids to succeed at BCC and beyond.

Is not just the students commute, it is prohibitive to parent evolvement particularly for lower income.

OK, then bus the affluent kids.