Hush on skin tone. Got it. Red Line attack-take 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't we worry about profiling/silliness when it does happen? I've read from time to time about bald middle black men getting harassed because a dreadlocked black teenager hit up a 7-Eleven an hour ago.

I'd also like to think the MPD and others keep a database of people who're likely to go "OMG Black people in the area!"

Actually, they don't. In fact, I talked to a couple of MPD officers who said that they experience the opposite problem, in that they encounter too many fine folks in
Washington who are reluctant to report suspicious behavior because they don't want to be considered as profiling, or worse. As a result, some persons who may seem up to no good in fact are, and the police might have prevented something had someone called them. The officers said if something seems off, it often is and that people should not be afraid to trust their gut. And when in doubt, call the police and let them sort things out.

Like they sorted out Tamir Rice? No, thank you.

Huh? That has nothing to do with DC. The fact is that the Georgetown Merchants Assoc got pressured into dropping an app that allows businesses to share information with police and each other about suspicious persons. And what happened? Crime in Georgetown is up this quarter, including brazen thefts of stores by a "flash mob", muggings and people harassed by groups of "juveniles" surrounding their vehicles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't we worry about profiling/silliness when it does happen? I've read from time to time about bald middle black men getting harassed because a dreadlocked black teenager hit up a 7-Eleven an hour ago.

I'd also like to think the MPD and others keep a database of people who're likely to go "OMG Black people in the area!"

Actually, they don't. In fact, I talked to a couple of MPD officers who said that they experience the opposite problem, in that they encounter too many fine folks in
Washington who are reluctant to report suspicious behavior because they don't want to be considered as profiling, or worse. As a result, some persons who may seem up to no good in fact are, and the police might have prevented something had someone called them. The officers said if something seems off, it often is and that people should not be afraid to trust their gut. And when in doubt, call the police and let them sort things out.

Like they sorted out Tamir Rice? No, thank you.

Huh? That has nothing to do with DC. The fact is that the Georgetown Merchants Assoc got pressured into dropping an app that allows businesses to share information with police and each other about suspicious persons. And what happened? Crime in Georgetown is up this quarter, including brazen thefts of stores by a "flash mob", muggings and people harassed by groups of "juveniles" surrounding their vehicles.

My husband is guilty of this. We live in a neighborhood where there are a lot of car break ins. He said he saw someone checking out people's cars and trying their doors. I said, why didn't you call the police? He said, well I didn't want to racially-profile anyone. I said, what?? you aren't racially profiling, you are calling the police because of actual, suspicious behavior. Racial profiling is when people post on our neighborhood listserv saying they saw a black man walking down the street looking at people's homes, and it didn't look like "he belonged."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't we worry about profiling/silliness when it does happen? I've read from time to time about bald middle black men getting harassed because a dreadlocked black teenager hit up a 7-Eleven an hour ago.

I'd also like to think the MPD and others keep a database of people who're likely to go "OMG Black people in the area!"

Actually, they don't. In fact, I talked to a couple of MPD officers who said that they experience the opposite problem, in that they encounter too many fine folks in
Washington who are reluctant to report suspicious behavior because they don't want to be considered as profiling, or worse. As a result, some persons who may seem up to no good in fact are, and the police might have prevented something had someone called them. The officers said if something seems off, it often is and that people should not be afraid to trust their gut. And when in doubt, call the police and let them sort things out.

Like they sorted out Tamir Rice? No, thank you.

Huh? That has nothing to do with DC. The fact is that the Georgetown Merchants Assoc got pressured into dropping an app that allows businesses to share information with police and each other about suspicious persons. And what happened? Crime in Georgetown is up this quarter, including brazen thefts of stores by a "flash mob", muggings and people harassed by groups of "juveniles" surrounding their vehicles.

My husband is guilty of this. We live in a neighborhood where there are a lot of car break ins. He said he saw someone checking out people's cars and trying their doors. I said, why didn't you call the police? He said, well I didn't want to racially-profile anyone. I said, what?? you aren't racially profiling, you are calling the police because of actual, suspicious behavior. Racial profiling is when people post on our neighborhood listserv saying they saw a black man walking down the street looking at people's homes, and it didn't look like "he belonged."

+1. If they're actually committing a crime, then it's not profiling.

Profiling would also be pulling over a 5'6" middle aged Black man because some 6'2" athletic teenage Black man just robbed a bank.

And yeah, privilege is a two-way street.

[Anonymous]

I am most horrified that no one else in the train helped this guy. I would have jumped the teens! But I guess I am a crazy woman. I cannot process no one helping this man fight.

[Anonymous]

+1. If they're actually committing a crime, then it's not profiling.

Profiling would also be pulling over a 5'6" middle aged Black man because some 6'2" athletic teenage Black man just robbed a bank.

And yeah, privilege is a two-way street.

The point is that police want to believe that citizens don't call because they don't want to be accused of "profiling." In reality, citizens like myself don't call because we don't trust the police to respond without deadly force.

Remember this one? Can you imagine being the person who called the cops in this case and knowing what happened as a result? http://newsone.com/1249485/dc-police-abuse-homeless-man-wheelchair/

Or this one, where a woman saw two students at an ATM and called the police because they made her "uncomfortable?" http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/33583187-story

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't we worry about profiling/silliness when it does happen? I've read from time to time about bald middle black men getting harassed because a dreadlocked black teenager hit up a 7-Eleven an hour ago.

I'd also like to think the MPD and others keep a database of people who're likely to go "OMG Black people in the area!"

Actually, they don't. In fact, I talked to a couple of MPD officers who said that they experience the opposite problem, in that they encounter too many fine folks in
Washington who are reluctant to report suspicious behavior because they don't want to be considered as profiling, or worse. As a result, some persons who may seem up to no good in fact are, and the police might have prevented something had someone called them. The officers said if something seems off, it often is and that people should not be afraid to trust their gut. And when in doubt, call the police and let them sort things out.

Like they sorted out Tamir Rice? No, thank you.

Yes, I'm sorry to say but the relentless flow of phone, dashboard, and security videos showing police abuse has been quite eye-opening. I will always try to contact the police when I see something that looks suspicious but I now pause and think twice about it because I know now there is no guarantee that an individual police officer will treat someone fairly. The police can help with this by doing a better job of preventing individual cops from behaving unprofessionally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am most horrified that no one else in the train helped this guy. I would have jumped the teens! But I guess I am a crazy woman. I cannot process no one helping this man fight.

I hope I would have, too, but these things happen really quickly. I can't blame people for not doing anything if it happened really fast and they didn't even have time to think.

[Anonymous]

I'm pretty disturbed by this story, because I've lived on that side of the red line for 15 years, and I ride that stretch almost every day. That easily could have been me getting attacked. There are often rowdy groups of teens on the train acting like jackasses, and my usual approach is just to ignore them. I don't want to change cars or alert the train driver, because if they haven't done anything illegal yet, there's no point in creating a problem and perhaps it's unfair to assume all rowdy teens are going to commit crimes.

I also don't think there's much point in standing up to them. Over the years, I've watched a few different people try - usually 30-ish tough guys - and it just escalates the situation because the teens often are just looking for a reason to fight. The only time I ever saw someone successfully stand down a group of teens was when a 50-ish AA woman who must've been a high school teacher started yelling at a group of three 13-15 year old boys. And even then I was getting ready to jump up because it looked for a moment like they were thinking about attacking her. The problem is it's not like a schoolyard bully you can stand up to - it's usually a group of 3-5, and even if you successfully stand up to one group, there will be always be another group of teens tomorrow. And then there's also the risk that someone is carrying a weapon. I'm not afraid to stand up to protect someone in real danger, but I've got children, and I don't want to end up dead just to try to prove a point.

I think I now need to change my habits. Whenever I see a group of rowdy teens on metro, I plan to (a) change cars immediately and (b) contact the transit police. Assuming the best in people is just not worth the safety risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am most horrified that no one else in the train helped this guy. I would have jumped the teens! But I guess I am a crazy woman. I cannot process no one helping this man fight.

One of the accounts said there were 10-15 teens at one end of the car where the victim was being beaten, and only about 5-8 people at the other end of the car. To put it in further perspective, one of the teens was described as 6'2", so these weren't young or small teens. I'd like to think I'd have intervened, but that sounds like a pretty scary situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

+1. If they're actually committing a crime, then it's not profiling.

Profiling would also be pulling over a 5'6" middle aged Black man because some 6'2" athletic teenage Black man just robbed a bank.

And yeah, privilege is a two-way street.

The point is that police want to believe that citizens don't call because they don't want to be accused of "profiling." In reality, citizens like myself don't call because we don't trust the police to respond without deadly force.

Remember this one? Can you imagine being the person who called the cops in this case and knowing what happened as a result? http://newsone.com/1249485/dc-police-abuse-homeless-man-wheelchair/

Or this one, where a woman saw two students at an ATM and called the police because they made her "uncomfortable?" http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/33583187-story

The latter case is very different. Given recent muggings in Georgetown the woman was right to call the police in a situation in which she felt threatened. And the police were justified in their response when at least one of the persons ran away from the cops.'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:4) it was rush hour. ... Could nobody help the man/call for help sooner?

I dunno, but if I were there I sure as f*** wouldn't get near a group of 10 teens in this city.

l

Funny how Americans won't intervene when a fellow citizen is being beaten on a crowded train during rush hour yet some Americans foiled terrorist attack in a midair flight. What happened to American courage?

The people with the guts to fight back are too smart to live in areas served by the red line.

Am originally from VA and now live in areas served by the Red Line. Am researching how to fight back, legally, since I'm over 18
Any ideas?

You made a bad decision to move and must now deal with the consequences. Sorry

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok what do you propose we do with violent criminals?

Whippings and work camps in Alaska sound good to me...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't we worry about profiling/silliness when it does happen? I've read from time to time about bald middle black men getting harassed because a dreadlocked black teenager hit up a 7-Eleven an hour ago.

I'd also like to think the MPD and others keep a database of people who're likely to go "OMG Black people in the area!"

Actually, they don't. In fact, I talked to a couple of MPD officers who said that they experience the opposite problem, in that they encounter too many fine folks in
Washington who are reluctant to report suspicious behavior because they don't want to be considered as profiling, or worse. As a result, some persons who may seem up to no good in fact are, and the police might have prevented something had someone called them. The officers said if something seems off, it often is and that people should not be afraid to trust their gut. And when in doubt, call the police and let them sort things out.

Like they sorted out Tamir Rice? No, thank you.

Yes, I'm sorry to say but the relentless flow of phone, dashboard, and security videos showing police abuse has been quite eye-opening. I will always try to contact the police when I see something that looks suspicious but I now pause and think twice about it because I know now there is no guarantee that an individual police officer will treat someone fairly. The police can help with this by doing a better job of preventing individual cops from behaving unprofessionally.

I wonder if you had access to videos of what police had to deal with in these communities if it would open your eyes as well. IMO, cops an be over the top, and should be held responsible when they are, but the big issue is the rampant lawlessness in certain communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't we worry about profiling/silliness when it does happen? I've read from time to time about bald middle black men getting harassed because a dreadlocked black teenager hit up a 7-Eleven an hour ago.

I'd also like to think the MPD and others keep a database of people who're likely to go "OMG Black people in the area!"

Actually, they don't. In fact, I talked to a couple of MPD officers who said that they experience the opposite problem, in that they encounter too many fine folks in
Washington who are reluctant to report suspicious behavior because they don't want to be considered as profiling, or worse. As a result, some persons who may seem up to no good in fact are, and the police might have prevented something had someone called them. The officers said if something seems off, it often is and that people should not be afraid to trust their gut. And when in doubt, call the police and let them sort things out.

Like they sorted out Tamir Rice? No, thank you.

Yes, I'm sorry to say but the relentless flow of phone, dashboard, and security videos showing police abuse has been quite eye-opening. I will always try to contact the police when I see something that looks suspicious but I now pause and think twice about it because I know now there is no guarantee that an individual police officer will treat someone fairly. The police can help with this by doing a better job of preventing individual cops from behaving unprofessionally.

I wonder if you had access to videos of what police had to deal with in these communities if it would open your eyes as well. IMO, cops an be over the top, and should be held responsible when they are, but the big issue is the rampant lawlessness in certain communities.

What's that got to do with Metro?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm pretty disturbed by this story, because I've lived on that side of the red line for 15 years, and I ride that stretch almost every day. That easily could have been me getting attacked. There are often rowdy groups of teens on the train acting like jackasses, and my usual approach is just to ignore them. I don't want to change cars or alert the train driver, because if they haven't done anything illegal yet, there's no point in creating a problem and perhaps it's unfair to assume all rowdy teens are going to commit crimes.

I also don't think there's much point in standing up to them. Over the years, I've watched a few different people try - usually 30-ish tough guys - and it just escalates the situation because the teens often are just looking for a reason to fight. The only time I ever saw someone successfully stand down a group of teens was when a 50-ish AA woman who must've been a high school teacher started yelling at a group of three 13-15 year old boys. And even then I was getting ready to jump up because it looked for a moment like they were thinking about attacking her. The problem is it's not like a schoolyard bully you can stand up to - it's usually a group of 3-5, and even if you successfully stand up to one group, there will be always be another group of teens tomorrow. And then there's also the risk that someone is carrying a weapon. I'm not afraid to stand up to protect someone in real danger, but I've got children, and I don't want to end up dead just to try to prove a point.

I think I now need to change my habits. Whenever I see a group of rowdy teens on metro, I plan to (a) change cars immediately and (b) contact the transit police. Assuming the best in people is just not worth the safety risk.

Absolutely. Please do! Everyone turning a blind eye is what leads to them feeling invincible and looking to escalate a situation with impunity.