Confederate Battle Flag

[jsteele]

Mitt Romney joins the "pro government busybodies":

https://twitter.com/MittRomney/status/612276050182049792

Mitt Romney
@MittRomney

Take down the #ConfederateFlag at the SC Capitol. To many, it is a symbol of racial hatred. Remove it now to honor #Charleston victims.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

Thank you for this. The north framed the civil war as a free the slaves movement when it was really a loot the south movement as well. The flag is a part of history and it is not all about slaves. There were not that many slaves in the first place. It is a groin issue that is always used to stir people up.

This is complete BS by someone who lacks even a basic understanding of history. But, don't trust me about this. Trust the Confederates. Here is what they wrote in 1860 about the causes leading to their secession. It was entirely about slavery:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

The entire argument in that document is that the Federal government and non-slave states were obligated to protect slavery and not only didn't fulfill those obligations, actually acted in a hostile manner toward slavery. Therefore, the slave-owning states considered the union to be absolved because it wasn't obeying the constitution.

Moreover, the North's justification for going to war was; 1) Federal institutions had been militarily attacked; and 2) to preserve the union. It was not a "free the slaves" movement. There were northern slave-owning states and the slaves were not freed in those states until after the war. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't free those slaves, but only slaves in the states that rebelled.

I agree that the North's motivations have been given the rose-colored glasses treatment, but that doesn't justify overlooking the true cause of the South's secession. It was slavery, plain and simple.

The fact is, it doesn't matter now what the flag stood for 150 years ago or 50 years ago or 15 years ago, when the debate in Columbia resulted in the moving of the flag from the top of the Capitol dome, to the grounds of the state house building. What matters is what it stands for NOW. Like it or not, that flag has been co-opted by a group of people whose sole mission is hate and destruction. That is the reality of 2015 and for that reason if no other, it needs to be removed immediately from its honorary spot on the SC State House grounds, as a part of this memorial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So one crazy murderer with a flag on his car represents the whole state of SC ? Giving even more power to a despicable action. The flag had nothing to do with his action. If the Boston marathon bomber had flown the American flag while doing his deed would that make the U.S. flag responsible? Very flawed logic.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Know what will be the ultimate destruction of this nation? Constantly bending to the 'it hurt my feelings' crowd. I guarantee you that once you bend to A, we will have to bend to B and C and D. Ad nauseum. And I'm not talking just about black people. I'm talking about feminists and all other 'outrage' groups.

Question: Whose "bending" are you referring to?
I bet you're not talking about gays bending (no pun intended) to traditional values and ending their quest for equal rights and protection under the law.
I bet you're not talking about Muslims bending to Christian ideologies and not wearing burkas or turbans and no longer objecting to prayer in schools.
I bet you're not talking about minorities bending to societal stereotypes and no longer objecting to being racially profiled are you?
I bet the ultimate destruction of this nation you're referring to only involves whites having to bend on some of the privileges they've had for so long.

Equal rights or preferred rights? If you want equal rights, you do not deliberately go into businesses knowing their religious values with the intent of hurting them. You accept the fact, that like everything else in life, some will not believe like you do and some won't. When your world revolves around forcing people to bake you cakes and make you special bouquets for your private event, that's done to deliberately screw others to make your 'point'. I consider that nasty behavior.

If I am running a business and want everyone there in my chosen uniform to represent my brand, I expect someone who wears a burka to find that unacceptable, and to therefore, not look for me to employ them. If you come into my business then sue me because I want you to wear my uniform, you are doing it, again to 'make a point'. Nasty behavior.

If a group of people are beating up on a police officer as he's trying to do his job, let's say, arrest a belligerent shoplifter, and you are filming it, then editing it, and putting it in on youtube, etc, you are doing it to 'make a point'. Nasty behavior.

If you are telling me that your right to use a female bathroom if you are a transgendered male to female is more important that another female's right to not having a biological male in the bathroom with her, then you want a preferred right, not equal rights. Liberals are all about science, right? XX and XY mean something. It's not about 'feels'.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So one crazy murderer with a flag on his car represents the whole state of SC ? Giving even more power to a despicable action. The flag had nothing to do with his action. If the Boston marathon bomber had flown the American flag while doing his deed would that make the U.S. flag responsible? Very flawed logic.

Here is your "one crazy murderer":

And?

[Anonymous]

The flag has been located at a Confederate war memorial since 2000. Furthermore, it's not on a pulley. It's within view of the state house, not on the state house itself. It's on the northern end of the grounds.

The Confederate flag has a place at the Confederate war memorial - it's a piece of history.

If you want, you can totally re-write the public school history texts and completely eliminate it and the war. Me? I think it's more important for children to understand history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The flag has been located at a Confederate war memorial since 2000. Furthermore, it's not on a pulley. It's within view of the state house, not on the state house itself. It's on the northern end of the grounds.

The Confederate flag has a place at the Confederate war memorial - it's a piece of history.

If you want, you can totally re-write the public school history texts and completely eliminate it and the war. Me? I think it's more important for children to understand history.

This may be true, but I would then argue that the Confederate war memorial does not belong on the living, active State House Grounds in 2015.

Signed,

A native of Columbia, SC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flag has been located at a Confederate war memorial since 2000. Furthermore, it's not on a pulley. It's within view of the state house, not on the state house itself. It's on the northern end of the grounds.

The Confederate flag has a place at the Confederate war memorial - it's a piece of history.

If you want, you can totally re-write the public school history texts and completely eliminate it and the war. Me? I think it's more important for children to understand history.

This may be true, but I would then argue that the Confederate war memorial does not belong on the living, active State House Grounds in 2015.

Signed,

A native of Columbia, SC

I think that's ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flag has been located at a Confederate war memorial since 2000. Furthermore, it's not on a pulley. It's within view of the state house, not on the state house itself. It's on the northern end of the grounds.

The Confederate flag has a place at the Confederate war memorial - it's a piece of history.

If you want, you can totally re-write the public school history texts and completely eliminate it and the war. Me? I think it's more important for children to understand history.

This may be true, but I would then argue that the Confederate war memorial does not belong on the living, active State House Grounds in 2015.

Signed,

A native of Columbia, SC

I think that's ridiculous.

I'm not a native of SC, but I totally agree with him/her. A Confederate war memorial is very important to SC (although it shouldn't be a way to glorify the war and SC's part in it), but there's no reason for the Confederate war memorial and the Confederate flag to be on the State House grounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So one crazy murderer with a flag on his car represents the whole state of SC ? Giving even more power to a despicable action. The flag had nothing to do with his action. If the Boston marathon bomber had flown the American flag while doing his deed would that make the U.S. flag responsible? Very flawed logic.

Here is your "one crazy murderer":

And?

Hate is hate. You only add to it by making the flag the object of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The flag has been located at a Confederate war memorial since 2000. Furthermore, it's not on a pulley. It's within view of the state house, not on the state house itself. It's on the northern end of the grounds.

The Confederate flag has a place at the Confederate war memorial - it's a piece of history.

If you want, you can totally re-write the public school history texts and completely eliminate it and the war. Me? I think it's more important for children to understand history.

As long as we're talking history, let's talk about when the Confederate flag STARTED being displayed on the state house. It was in 1963, the same year that four litle girls were killed in a bomb blast at their church in Birmingham. The same year as Medgar Evers assassination. The same year that President Kennedy ordered Alabama Governor George Wallace to stand aside and allow Black students to enroll at the public flagship university.

These events are not unrelated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flag has been located at a Confederate war memorial since 2000. Furthermore, it's not on a pulley. It's within view of the state house, not on the state house itself. It's on the northern end of the grounds.

The Confederate flag has a place at the Confederate war memorial - it's a piece of history.

If you want, you can totally re-write the public school history texts and completely eliminate it and the war. Me? I think it's more important for children to understand history.

This may be true, but I would then argue that the Confederate war memorial does not belong on the living, active State House Grounds in 2015.

Signed,

A native of Columbia, SC

I think that's ridiculous.

Would a Nazi War Memorial belong on the grounds of the Bundestag?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flag has been located at a Confederate war memorial since 2000. Furthermore, it's not on a pulley. It's within view of the state house, not on the state house itself. It's on the northern end of the grounds.

The Confederate flag has a place at the Confederate war memorial - it's a piece of history.

If you want, you can totally re-write the public school history texts and completely eliminate it and the war. Me? I think it's more important for children to understand history.

This may be true, but I would then argue that the Confederate war memorial does not belong on the living, active State House Grounds in 2015.

Signed,

A native of Columbia, SC

I think that's ridiculous.

Would a Nazi War Memorial belong on the grounds of the Bundestag?

Show me the 6 million blacks killed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Would a Nazi War Memorial belong on the grounds of the Bundestag?

Would a slave owner be on the US currency?

Oh, wait...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flag has been located at a Confederate war memorial since 2000. Furthermore, it's not on a pulley. It's within view of the state house, not on the state house itself. It's on the northern end of the grounds.

The Confederate flag has a place at the Confederate war memorial - it's a piece of history.

If you want, you can totally re-write the public school history texts and completely eliminate it and the war. Me? I think it's more important for children to understand history.

This may be true, but I would then argue that the Confederate war memorial does not belong on the living, active State House Grounds in 2015.

Signed,

A native of Columbia, SC

I think that's ridiculous.

Would a Nazi War Memorial belong on the grounds of the Bundestag?

Show me the 6 million blacks killed.

12.5 Million were taken from in the slave trade. All of them died either in bondage or during the middle passage and that doesn't include those who were born and died in slavery.