How far should we "Lean In?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a debate that only the well-educated can afford to have.

While professional women engage in hand-wringing about whether they're "leaning in" enough, they don't stop to consider that for the nanny they employ, no amount of leaning in on her behalf will ever lead to a discernible increase in her salary/ benefits/ prestige.

Leaning in only considers the concerns of the professional class.

Truth.

I also agree. It's part of the "feminist" mantra: I want MY rights on the job, but the hell with my domestic workers hidden behind my closed doors.

My "domestic worker" was able to finance a mortgage based solely on her salary working for us. We paid $300 every month for her healthcare premiums. How is that to hell with my domestic worker? She barely graduated from high school and made close to 50K a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since when is raising a child, "not working"?

Hope you don't tell the nanny, she's "not working."

You don't need a graduate degree to raise a child.

I have two graduate degrees and I retired at the ripe old age of 40 to stay at home. Having saved every single penny of my earnings, I was in a good position to do that + my DH is in a secure and well paying job. No debts, low mortgage and pension and savings, fully funded college and tons of insurance means that I can rest easy.

I think my graduate degree actually enabled me to be a SAHM with financial security, unlike a nanny. Another thing - there is a huge difference in the interaction any child will have with a very educated mom vs. a poorly educated child care provider. We all want to give our children the best advantage in life. In our family's case - I was the best advantage.

Wow, you got married before you started working, so your husband supported you financially while you were in, or immediately after, grad school? Great gig. I didn't even marry until I'd been out of grad school 6 years.

Don't you know women who supported their husbands in grad school? I know lots of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a debate that only the well-educated can afford to have.

While professional women engage in hand-wringing about whether they're "leaning in" enough, they don't stop to consider that for the nanny they employ, no amount of leaning in on her behalf will ever lead to a discernible increase in her salary/ benefits/ prestige.

Leaning in only considers the concerns of the professional class.

Truth.

I also agree. It's part of the "feminist" mantra: I want MY rights on the job, but the hell with my domestic workers hidden behind my closed doors.

Right. Equal rights for all - who think and look like us. The undereducated, immigrant women we rely upon so that we and our husbands may "lean in" need not apply.

I don't understand. Do you think nannies should make what doctors and lawyers make? What point are you trying to make?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since when is raising a child, "not working"?

Hope you don't tell the nanny, she's "not working."

You don't need a graduate degree to raise a child.

I have two graduate degrees and I retired at the ripe old age of 40 to stay at home. Having saved every single penny of my earnings, I was in a good position to do that + my DH is in a secure and well paying job. No debts, low mortgage and pension and savings, fully funded college and tons of insurance means that I can rest easy.

I think my graduate degree actually enabled me to be a SAHM with financial security, unlike a nanny. Another thing - there is a huge difference in the interaction any child will have with a very educated mom vs. a poorly educated child care provider. We all want to give our children the best advantage in life. In our family's case - I was the best advantage.

Wow, you got married before you started working, so your husband supported you financially while you were in, or immediately after, grad school? Great gig. I didn't even marry until I'd been out of grad school 6 years.

Don't you know women who supported their husbands in grad school? I know lots of them.

My close friends were all in grad school themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since when is raising a child, "not working"?

Hope you don't tell the nanny, she's "not working."

You don't need a graduate degree to raise a child.

I have two graduate degrees and I retired at the ripe old age of 40 to stay at home. Having saved every single penny of my earnings, I was in a good position to do that + my DH is in a secure and well paying job. No debts, low mortgage and pension and savings, fully funded college and tons of insurance means that I can rest easy.

I think my graduate degree actually enabled me to be a SAHM with financial security, unlike a nanny. Another thing - there is a huge difference in the interaction any child will have with a very educated mom vs. a poorly educated child care provider. We all want to give our children the best advantage in life. In our family's case - I was the best advantage.

Wow, you got married before you started working, so your husband supported you financially while you were in, or immediately after, grad school? Great gig. I didn't even marry until I'd been out of grad school 6 years.

Wha? She didn't say anything like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since when is raising a child, "not working"?

Hope you don't tell the nanny, she's "not working."

You don't need a graduate degree to raise a child.

And yet, the earlier example of the "perfect" nanny stated that she had a degree in child development. So clearly, education is highly valued when searching for a childcare provider. But it makes no difference if you're "just" talking about a parent? Ridiculous. I have several degrees that I may or may not put to use again in the future. But my children certainly benefit from having someone who's been educated take care of them.

But in your case, the difference between a less qualified child care provider providing 40 hours a week of care versus you is, you hope, meaningful. I don't think it is; hence, the reason my family does not have a SAHP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Funny how mum many posters are staying on the "leaning in" potential of their nannies!

My nanny has no leaning in potential. She was lucky to graduate from high school. Who cares?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm wondering why a twenty-something ex-teacher with a degree in child development who can focus exclusively on kid stuff is considered excellent childcare and something to celebrate - while a parent with the same credentials (or much better) staying home to "focus exclusively on kid stuff" is sneered at by so many posters. Having a parent at home is the "truly different calculus". It's the gold standard. So why is having the great nanny celebrated, but having the SAHP not?

Brilliant question.

Why is it the gold standard? First, you have to have one of the two parents who WANTS to SAH. Do you really think little Johnny is more successful if his mother gives up her great job to focus exclusively on raising him? Meanwhile, the family has given up her income and her career ambitions.

I agree completely. Why is having a parent stay at home the gold standard? A SAHP doesn't guarantee a thing other than you have only one person working to support the family.

So paying an educated and engaged childcare provider to care for your kids is your idea of a gold standard... but you don't feel you fit that bill so you pay someone else to do it. Got it.

You are not very smart. It's that the delta between a good childcare provider and a good SAHP isn't worth it to my family or other families with dual WOHPs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a debate that only the well-educated can afford to have.

While professional women engage in hand-wringing about whether they're "leaning in" enough, they don't stop to consider that for the nanny they employ, no amount of leaning in on her behalf will ever lead to a discernible increase in her salary/ benefits/ prestige.

Leaning in only considers the concerns of the professional class.

Truth.

I also agree. It's part of the "feminist" mantra: I want MY rights on the job, but the hell with my domestic workers hidden behind my closed doors.

My "domestic worker" was able to finance a mortgage based solely on her salary working for us. We paid $300 every month for her healthcare premiums. How is that to hell with my domestic worker? She barely graduated from high school and made close to 50K a year.

Good for you and her that you paid her about $25/hour, plus benefits. That's a fair wage in exchange for what she provides for you.

Are you aware of the fact that most nannies in this area don't even earn enough to rent out their own bedroom, let alone an apartment, and are forced to live with a partner and share a bedroom, or "live-in" their jobs and never get to go home to their own place for some peace and quiet?

It's really rather shameful the way most parents take advantage of their nannies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since when is raising a child, "not working"?

Hope you don't tell the nanny, she's "not working."

You don't need a graduate degree to raise a child.

And yet, the earlier example of the "perfect" nanny stated that she had a degree in child development. So clearly, education is highly valued when searching for a childcare provider. But it makes no difference if you're "just" talking about a parent? Ridiculous. I have several degrees that I may or may not put to use again in the future. But my children certainly benefit from having someone who's been educated take care of them.

You still don't need a college degree to raise a child. My mother was a two time college drop out and I think she did an excellent job with me and my siblings. We all went on to get degrees, get married, etc and my brother has an extremely successful career. You don't need a million degrees to be a good mom or dad.

True. But it sure isn't a detriment either!

It's a detriment if the kid doesn't turn out any "better," but the mom went without her income and other intangibles from her career. Let's be real, it's moms who are burned out on working who are the gold standard SAHPs. They don't SAH unless they'd rather be home than work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Lean In" was a lot about having a perfect husband. In that sense it was a weird feminist proclamation. Her construct ignored those who aren't in a perfect marital situation, and unfortunately that is where she sits now.

It also ignored the successful single women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But she held high their supper appearances to be sufficient to qualify as being good parents.

That's just wrong.

Unless, of course, your spouse is a SAHP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since when is raising a child, "not working"?

Hope you don't tell the nanny, she's "not working."

You don't need a graduate degree to raise a child.

I have two graduate degrees and I retired at the ripe old age of 40 to stay at home. Having saved every single penny of my earnings, I was in a good position to do that + my DH is in a secure and well paying job. No debts, low mortgage and pension and savings, fully funded college and tons of insurance means that I can rest easy.

I think my graduate degree actually enabled me to be a SAHM with financial security, unlike a nanny. Another thing - there is a huge difference in the interaction any child will have with a very educated mom vs. a poorly educated child care provider. We all want to give our children the best advantage in life. In our family's case - I was the best advantage.

Wow, you got married before you started working, so your husband supported you financially while you were in, or immediately after, grad school? Great gig. I didn't even marry until I'd been out of grad school 6 years.

Wha? She didn't say anything like that.

Yes, she did. She said she saved every single penny of her earnings. She couldn't save it all unless her husband paid all her bills now could she?

[Anonymous]

I wish the SAHM would shut up about nannies just to try to justify being home. We paid our nanny a great wage, full taxes, etc. most people do pay well unless the nanny is not educated or illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a debate that only the well-educated can afford to have.

While professional women engage in hand-wringing about whether they're "leaning in" enough, they don't stop to consider that for the nanny they employ, no amount of leaning in on her behalf will ever lead to a discernible increase in her salary/ benefits/ prestige.

Leaning in only considers the concerns of the professional class.

Truth.

I also agree. It's part of the "feminist" mantra: I want MY rights on the job, but the hell with my domestic workers hidden behind my closed doors.

My "domestic worker" was able to finance a mortgage based solely on her salary working for us. We paid $300 every month for her healthcare premiums. How is that to hell with my domestic worker? She barely graduated from high school and made close to 50K a year.

Good for you and her that you paid her about $25/hour, plus benefits. That's a fair wage in exchange for what she provides for you.

Are you aware of the fact that most nannies in this area don't even earn enough to rent out their own bedroom, let alone an apartment, and are forced to live with a partner and share a bedroom, or "live-in" their jobs and never get to go home to their own place for some peace and quiet?

It's really rather shameful the way most parents take advantage of their nannies.

That is completely inapplicable to me and to my friends who have nannies.