MS Magnet letters are starting to arrive

[Anonymous]

If this is the case, explain why on application there is Home High School, and gender.
They definitely use both. Otherwise most kids will be only from W cluster, or only from HGCs. That is not the case.

[Anonymous]

Right because there are absolutely no bright kids from outside of the HGCs and W clusters...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this is the case, explain why on application there is Home High School, and gender.
They definitely use both. Otherwise most kids will be only from W cluster, or only from HGCs. That is not the case.

Huh? Because they want to know the demographics of the applicant pool.

They "definitely" use both? What is your source for this?

Why do you think that "otherwise, most kids will (sic) be only from W cluster or HGCs"? Do you believe that the only qualified applicants are from the W-cluster and HGCs? If you do believe that, what is your basis for that belief?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this is the case, explain why on application there is Home High School, and gender.
They definitely use both. Otherwise most kids will be only from W cluster, or only from HGCs. That is not the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this is the case, explain why on application there is Home High School, and gender.
They definitely use both. Otherwise most kids will be only from W cluster, or only from HGCs. That is not the case.

Can you explain this assumption of yours, please?

[Anonymous]

Actually most kids are from HGCs. I watched an AEI presentation and they stated that more than 60% come from HGCs. I also know students who were accepted to HGCs but didn't go and then went on to Ms magnets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this is the case, explain why on application there is Home High School, and gender.
They definitely use both. Otherwise most kids will be only from W cluster, or only from HGCs. That is not the case.

Can you explain this assumption of yours, please?

I am not PP, if you're talking about this assumption as "otherwise most kids will be only from W cluster or only from HGCs," I think the assumption rests on three things.

First, that admission depends almost entirely on test results. I'm not sure that's true given what I've seen over the years about the tests scores and various decisions to admit or deny students.

Second, is that in these types of standardized group-administered ability tests, the same kind of income/performance level correlations are at work that we see, for example, in the SAT. It doesn't mean that wealthy kids are smarter than poor kids, but that there is some kind of advantage they enjoy in the process that helps them score higher on average as a group -- home tutoring, test prep, exposure to enriching activities, more exposure to books, confidence, less stress and anxiety in life, etc. There are a zillion possibilities.

Third, I also think it's clear that those kids who have enjoyed advanced instruction -- in the HGC, for example -- are likely to score better. My DD, who was in the HGC and a MS magnet, mentioned that at some point (I forget whether she said HGC or MS) they actually received explicit instruction and practice in how to solve Raven-type puzzles. I know her math instruction was more advanced, and so she would likely score better on the math portion of the MS exam, which definitely requires math skills/knowledge that can be taught. I have no idea why the school or teachers teach Ravens, as it's not part of curriculum, but I believe her. I've also watched my son's MAP-M percentiles plummet since he's been taken off the accelerated curriculum track after the introduction of C2.0 -- the lack of accelerated instruction is clearly the cause. It would have the same effect on MS SCAT scores. There's no way he could get the questions that depend on understanding averages if he wasn't exposed to them, but another kid was taking compacted 4/5/6 was or getting the instruction at home

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually most kids are from HGCs. I watched an AEI presentation and they stated that more than 60% come from HGCs. I also know students who were accepted to HGCs but didn't go and then went on to Ms magnets.

Maybe that was true that specific year - but it varies from year to year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this is the case, explain why on application there is Home High School, and gender.
They definitely use both. Otherwise most kids will be only from W cluster, or only from HGCs. That is not the case.

Can you explain this assumption of yours, please?

I am not PP, if you're talking about this assumption as "otherwise most kids will be only from W cluster or only from HGCs," I think the assumption rests on three things.

First, that admission depends almost entirely on test results. I'm not sure that's true given what I've seen over the years about the tests scores and various decisions to admit or deny students.

Second, is that in these types of standardized group-administered ability tests, the same kind of income/performance level correlations are at work that we see, for example, in the SAT. It doesn't mean that wealthy kids are smarter than poor kids, but that there is some kind of advantage they enjoy in the process that helps them score higher on average as a group -- home tutoring, test prep, exposure to enriching activities, more exposure to books, confidence, less stress and anxiety in life, etc. There are a zillion possibilities.

Third, I also think it's clear that those kids who have enjoyed advanced instruction -- in the HGC, for example -- are likely to score better. My DD, who was in the HGC and a MS magnet, mentioned that at some point (I forget whether she said HGC or MS) they actually received explicit instruction and practice in how to solve Raven-type puzzles. I know her math instruction was more advanced, and so she would likely score better on the math portion of the MS exam, which definitely requires math skills/knowledge that can be taught. I have no idea why the school or teachers teach Ravens, as it's not part of curriculum, but I believe her. I've also watched my son's MAP-M percentiles plummet since he's been taken off the accelerated curriculum track after the introduction of C2.0 -- the lack of accelerated instruction is clearly the cause. It would have the same effect on MS SCAT scores. There's no way he could get the questions that depend on understanding averages if he wasn't exposed to them, but another kid was taking compacted 4/5/6 was or getting the instruction at home

Your post assumes that the kinds of kids you describe all hail from the W clusters (or the HGC, or both).

You are wrong.

There are many, many affluent families with highly-educated parents who do not live in the W clusters. Many such families have children who both attend school outside the W clusters, *and* who are not in the HGC.

There are also many such affluent, highly-educated parents in such families whose children enjoy advanced instruction through CTY; local college and university programs; 4-H science programs; Kumon math; Russian math - the list goes on. They have the same advantages that their peers in the W clusters have. You may find this hard to imagine, but it is true.

Your post is just another example of how W-area parents sincerely believe that there is the High-Achieving W Cluster, and then Everything Else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this is the case, explain why on application there is Home High School, and gender.
They definitely use both. Otherwise most kids will be only from W cluster, or only from HGCs. That is not the case.

Can you explain this assumption of yours, please?

I am not PP, if you're talking about this assumption as "otherwise most kids will be only from W cluster or only from HGCs," I think the assumption rests on three things.

First, that admission depends almost entirely on test results. I'm not sure that's true given what I've seen over the years about the tests scores and various decisions to admit or deny students.

Second, is that in these types of standardized group-administered ability tests, the same kind of income/performance level correlations are at work that we see, for example, in the SAT. It doesn't mean that wealthy kids are smarter than poor kids, but that there is some kind of advantage they enjoy in the process that helps them score higher on average as a group -- home tutoring, test prep, exposure to enriching activities, more exposure to books, confidence, less stress and anxiety in life, etc. There are a zillion possibilities.

Third, I also think it's clear that those kids who have enjoyed advanced instruction -- in the HGC, for example -- are likely to score better. My DD, who was in the HGC and a MS magnet, mentioned that at some point (I forget whether she said HGC or MS) they actually received explicit instruction and practice in how to solve Raven-type puzzles. I know her math instruction was more advanced, and so she would likely score better on the math portion of the MS exam, which definitely requires math skills/knowledge that can be taught. I have no idea why the school or teachers teach Ravens, as it's not part of curriculum, but I believe her. I've also watched my son's MAP-M percentiles plummet since he's been taken off the accelerated curriculum track after the introduction of C2.0 -- the lack of accelerated instruction is clearly the cause. It would have the same effect on MS SCAT scores. There's no way he could get the questions that depend on understanding averages if he wasn't exposed to them, but another kid was taking compacted 4/5/6 was or getting the instruction at home

+1 You nailed it!

[Anonymous]

Nobody would assume that kids from other clusters than W are stupid. I would say it is even stupid to think that other people would assume it...
However if your child was not in compacted math, and was not instructed extra at home, or did not study math by himself/herself, or was enriched somehow, there is absolutely no way to get high SCAT score.
Raven yes, Reading Comprehension yes.
But SCAT - no way. To solve accurately 50 problems in 20 minutes (without actually solving them, otherwise you will run out of time) require special skills and understanding.
However, that does not translate to deep math knowledge.
I bet that some accepted kids will not be able to solve Math Olympiad level problems for their age group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody would assume that kids from other clusters than W are stupid. I would say it is even stupid to think that other people would assume it...
However if your child was not in compacted math, and was not instructed extra at home, or did not study math by himself/herself, or was enriched somehow, there is absolutely no way to get high SCAT score.
Raven yes, Reading Comprehension yes.
But SCAT - no way. To solve accurately 50 problems in 20 minutes (without actually solving them, otherwise you will run out of time) require special skills and understanding.
However, that does not translate to deep math knowledge.
I bet that some accepted kids will not be able to solve Math Olympiad level problems for their age group.

Oh, hello - it's you again. I can tell from the way you write that you are the same PP who says that if the admissions committee didn't balance for schools, then the magnets would only enroll W cluster and HGC students.

What makes you think that students from clusters other than the W ones are not in compacted math, or instructed extra at home, or do not study math by himself/herself, or are not enriched in various other ways?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All things being equal - they will choose the candidate with a low performing home middle school over the candidate with a high performing middle school.

Why is that?

I've heard that there is a cap per home middle school too.

Because you have a good home option. Seems pretty obvious.

We don't have a good home option and my child was accepted. However, I've heard that there is a cap of how many students are admitted from our home ms school and there are many students who apply to the magnets who are rejected.

Interesting. Glad MCPS knows so well what is best for my child, judging solely on what house we bought.

[Anonymous]

I have actually heard that the home middle schools that are struggling are the ones who are fighting to retain the magnet qualified students. I went to a meeting for 5th grade parents and the school blamed the magnets for taking the smartest kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have actually heard that the home middle schools that are struggling are the ones who are fighting to retain the magnet qualified students. I went to a meeting for 5th grade parents and the school blamed the magnets for taking the smartest kids.

+1