Why Some People Convert to Islam

[Anonymous]

Thanks, PP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dodging and deflecting again. When busted with evidence, you jump to a different topic altogether.

You were asked about death for apostates in Islam. You STILL haven't answered. Who's the one dodging and deflecting?

There seems to be a conversation going on in this post between just 2 people. Since the discussion has come up about apostasy I would just like to offer what I have learned through research. I am not Muslim, I can not read the Quran in Arabic and must rely on a translation which, I sometime find inaccurate.

The authentically verified Hadith from Prophet Muhammad who said, "Whoever changes his religion kill him." This statement, however, would seem to contradict numerous verses in the Quran that guarantee freedom of belief, few of which include "There is no compulsion in religion" [2:256], and "Whoever so wills may believe and whoever so wills may deny" [18:29].

Although the above-mentioned Hadith is authentic, it is also established that Prophet Muhammad never ordered the death penalty to be carried out on people known during his time to have apostatised. Of such people was a Bedouin man who came to Medina (during a time of political and military power for Muslims) to announce his Islam, but apostatised and left the city a short period later without receiving any penalty for his subsequent rejection.

Given how the Prophet treated individuals who entered and left Islam, and the numerous verses in the Quran guaranteeing freedom of belief, the Hadith decreeing a death penalty for apostasy becomes more puzzling. This can be resolved by turning to another authentic Hadith where this penalty is mentioned, but with a qualifier: "…the one leaving his religion and abandoning the group". In addition, another verse in the Quran, which can further resolve this conundrum speaks to a strategy adopted by a rival sect in Medina in one of their attempts to create a schism within the nascent Muslim community by pretending to enter Islam in the morning, then leaving it in the evening [3:72].

Its interesting to note that prior to entering Islam, the two biggest tribes in Medina were engaged in a lengthy civil war that only ended when their allegiances were redefined from the tribal to the religious. If these new allegiances were jeopardised, it was highly likely to lead to civil strife and loss of life again. Hence, the Hadith about the death penalty is not about apostasy in the strict sense of no longer believing in Islam per se. Rather, it is about what can be considered in modern terms political treason.

Human rights violations do occur in which any number of religious justifications have been used and are not limited to the Islamic faith.

Op here. Yes, this is fact. But I want to put this in a different thread as the islamophobes are trying to bury the topic of THIS thread.
Well put though and factually accurate. Now watch them jump to a different subject on this thread again!

I will post on apostasy in the new thread.

I want people to know why people are converting to Islam.

[Anonymous]

"Islamophobes"? Where have I heard this before:

"If you challenge my facts, you are vilifying my beliefs and you're a X-phobe."

Oh, right, totalitarian states.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous
I want people to know why people are converting to Islam.
There is no one global reason why people are converting to Islam. Everyone has their own story.

It is important to note that no one keeps formal count of conversions, so you can assume any conversion numbers you see are guesses driven by the agenda of the author.

[Anonymous]

My husband is Saudi so we know lots of Saudis who marry American girls and take them back to KSA. From what I've seen, conversions in this crowd are driven by the fact that life in KSA is 100% less troublesome for a Muslim.

This reminds me a goodbye party we had for friends of ours who were leaving. The woman is a social animal who loves good red wine, so we gave her a good rubbing about her conversion. She said, laughingly, "everyone assumes if you convert, you become some kind of zealot. I'll convert and be a bad Muslim, like at least 50% of them!"

I always thought that was a neat approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband is Saudi so we know lots of Saudis who marry American girls and take them back to KSA. From what I've seen, conversions in this crowd are driven by the fact that life in KSA is 100% less troublesome for a Muslim.

This reminds me a goodbye party we had for friends of ours who were leaving. The woman is a social animal who loves good red wine, so we gave her a good rubbing about her conversion. She said, laughingly, "everyone assumes if you convert, you become some kind of zealot. I'll convert and be a bad Muslim, like at least 50% of them!"

I always thought that was a neat approach.

Yes there are all kinds of muslims, just like there are all kinds of Christians, Jews, etc...the women I have known who converted fell in love with their boyfriends. Some are very devout now and some are in name only Muslim. Some women convert on their own though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is Saudi so we know lots of Saudis who marry American girls and take them back to KSA. From what I've seen, conversions in this crowd are driven by the fact that life in KSA is 100% less troublesome for a Muslim.

This reminds me a goodbye party we had for friends of ours who were leaving. The woman is a social animal who loves good red wine, so we gave her a good rubbing about her conversion. She said, laughingly, "everyone assumes if you convert, you become some kind of zealot. I'll convert and be a bad Muslim, like at least 50% of them!"

I always thought that was a neat approach.

Yes there are all kinds of muslims, just like there are all kinds of Christians, Jews, etc...the women I have known who converted fell in love with their boyfriends. Some are very devout now and some are in name only Muslim. Some women convert on their own though.

Usually it's not just the falling in love business, it's "if you want to get married and be acceptable to my family, do this." It happens with other faiths too, Islam is not unique in that regard. Although observant Muslims aren't supposed to have these types of relationships to begin with.

My husband's cousin keeps dating these girls, for about 18 months a pop, which always ends with "I'll convert for you!" - "Nope, still don't want to marry you."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Must Read to learn what Apostasy is.

Few Americans know what is going on inside the Muslim world and what it portends for them. The fact is that, most Americans are subjected to much of the same misinformation with regard to Islam that I grew up with inside the Muslim world. Thus Americans are in the dark attempting to formulate their strategy to defend themselves against the threat of terror, domestic jihad and Sharia. While they get ridiculed for being ‘Islamophobes’, the Muslim world itself is undergoing a huge and painful awakening.

For instance, a prominent Egyptian lawyer and women’s rights activist Nagla Al Imam recently announced her conversion to Christianity in Cairo, Egypt. The announcement brought shock waves in and beyond Egypt. This is perhaps the first case ever of its kind where a Muslim woman, who is also a Sharia expert, has openly challenged Islamic apostasy laws.

The relatively few number of Muslims who dare to convert to Christianity do that in extreme secrecy. That is because the penalty for leaving Islam is death in all schools of Sharia, both Sunni and Shiite. Those who wrote Sharia centuries ago knew that keeping Muslims in total submission would be very difficult to maintain, and thus they established barbaric laws condemning Muslims to death for exercising their basic human rights to choose their religion. Sharia never entrusted its enforcement only to the formal legal system. Islam promises heavenly rewards to individual Muslims who take the law into their own hands. Sharia states that the killers of apostates and adulterers are not to be punished as murderers. That is why, for Islam to achieve 100% compliance to Sharia enforcement, Muslim individuals were told they must be Allah’s enforces of Sharia on earth if the government fails to do so. That is the reason honor killing and killing of apostates happen in the West.

http://formermuslimsunited.org/apostasy-from-islam/

Sharia Law mandates death for apostasy. True Islam follows Sharia law which make Islam not only a religion but the who political and social system for everyone. Concept of freedom is not understood and causes fear and anger.

[Anonymous]

+1. Muslim OP says she doesn't believe shariah. That's perfectly fine. But shariah was developed over 13 centuries by Muslim theologians. Sharia is followed by the vast majority of Muslims today. OP rejects shariah as part of her personal Islam, but shariah is part of the Islam followed by the vast majority of Muslims.

Therefore, OP cannot make sweeping statements, without offering any further qualification, that "Islam doesn't execute apostates."

For those of you who want to read it, here's the full statement from the Quran:

Sahih International 9/11-12: "And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is Saudi so we know lots of Saudis who marry American girls and take them back to KSA. From what I've seen, conversions in this crowd are driven by the fact that life in KSA is 100% less troublesome for a Muslim.

This reminds me a goodbye party we had for friends of ours who were leaving. The woman is a social animal who loves good red wine, so we gave her a good rubbing about her conversion. She said, laughingly, "everyone assumes if you convert, you become some kind of zealot. I'll convert and be a bad Muslim, like at least 50% of them!"

I always thought that was a neat approach.

Yes there are all kinds of muslims, just like there are all kinds of Christians, Jews, etc...the women I have known who converted fell in love with their boyfriends. Some are very devout now and some are in name only Muslim. Some women convert on their own though.

Did you tell these women their boyfriends are bad Muslims for having girlfriends in the first place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Must Read to learn what Apostasy is.

Few Americans know what is going on inside the Muslim world and what it portends for them. The fact is that, most Americans are subjected to much of the same misinformation with regard to Islam that I grew up with inside the Muslim world. Thus Americans are in the dark attempting to formulate their strategy to defend themselves against the threat of terror, domestic jihad and Sharia. While they get ridiculed for being ‘Islamophobes’, the Muslim world itself is undergoing a huge and painful awakening.

For instance, a prominent Egyptian lawyer and women’s rights activist Nagla Al Imam recently announced her conversion to Christianity in Cairo, Egypt. The announcement brought shock waves in and beyond Egypt. This is perhaps the first case ever of its kind where a Muslim woman, who is also a Sharia expert, has openly challenged Islamic apostasy laws.

The relatively few number of Muslims who dare to convert to Christianity do that in extreme secrecy. That is because the penalty for leaving Islam is death in all schools of Sharia, both Sunni and Shiite. Those who wrote Sharia centuries ago knew that keeping Muslims in total submission would be very difficult to maintain, and thus they established barbaric laws condemning Muslims to death for exercising their basic human rights to choose their religion. Sharia never entrusted its enforcement only to the formal legal system. Islam promises heavenly rewards to individual Muslims who take the law into their own hands. Sharia states that the killers of apostates and adulterers are not to be punished as murderers. That is why, for Islam to achieve 100% compliance to Sharia enforcement, Muslim individuals were told they must be Allah’s enforces of Sharia on earth if the government fails to do so. That is the reason honor killing and killing of apostates happen in the West.

http://formermuslimsunited.org/apostasy-from-islam/

Sharia Law mandates death for apostasy. True Islam follows Sharia law which make Islam not only a religion but the who political and social system for everyone. Concept of freedom is not understood and causes fear and anger.

A survey conducted by the Pew Research Center in 2010 found relatively widespread popular support for death penalty as a punishment for apostasy in Egypt (84% of respondents in favor of death penalty), Jordan (86% in favor), Indonesia (30% in favor), Pakistan (76% favor) and Nigeria (51% in favor).[114] Another survey conducted by Pew Research Center in 2012 among Muslim populations found little change in attitudes towards apostasy in Islamic countries it was able to conduct a survey. Death penalty for apostasy in Islam was favored by large majorities of Muslims in Egypt (86%), Jordan (82%), Afghanistan (79%), Pakistan (76%), Malaysia (62%), Palestinian Territories (66%); and significant percentage of Muslims in Lebanon (46%), Bangladesh (44%), Iraq (42%), Tunisia (29%), Tajikistan (22%), Indonesia (18%) and Turkey (17%).[115] Governments of six gulf countries - Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain and Kuwait - did not permit Pew Research to survey nationwide public opinion on apostasy in 2010 or 2012.

If they were beheading people in vatican city don't you think there would be an outcry?????

find a moderate muslim

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Must Read to learn what Apostasy is.

Few Americans know what is going on inside the Muslim world and what it portends for them. The fact is that, most Americans are subjected to much of the same misinformation with regard to Islam that I grew up with inside the Muslim world. Thus Americans are in the dark attempting to formulate their strategy to defend themselves against the threat of terror, domestic jihad and Sharia. While they get ridiculed for being ‘Islamophobes’, the Muslim world itself is undergoing a huge and painful awakening.

For instance, a prominent Egyptian lawyer and women’s rights activist Nagla Al Imam recently announced her conversion to Christianity in Cairo, Egypt. The announcement brought shock waves in and beyond Egypt. This is perhaps the first case ever of its kind where a Muslim woman, who is also a Sharia expert, has openly challenged Islamic apostasy laws.

The relatively few number of Muslims who dare to convert to Christianity do that in extreme secrecy. That is because the penalty for leaving Islam is death in all schools of Sharia, both Sunni and Shiite. Those who wrote Sharia centuries ago knew that keeping Muslims in total submission would be very difficult to maintain, and thus they established barbaric laws condemning Muslims to death for exercising their basic human rights to choose their religion. Sharia never entrusted its enforcement only to the formal legal system. Islam promises heavenly rewards to individual Muslims who take the law into their own hands. Sharia states that the killers of apostates and adulterers are not to be punished as murderers. That is why, for Islam to achieve 100% compliance to Sharia enforcement, Muslim individuals were told they must be Allah’s enforces of Sharia on earth if the government fails to do so. That is the reason honor killing and killing of apostates happen in the West.

http://formermuslimsunited.org/apostasy-from-islam/

Sharia Law mandates death for apostasy. True Islam follows Sharia law which make Islam not only a religion but the who political and social system for everyone. Concept of freedom is not understood and causes fear and anger.

A survey conducted by the Pew Research Center in 2010 found relatively widespread popular support for death penalty as a punishment for apostasy in Egypt (84% of respondents in favor of death penalty), Jordan (86% in favor), Indonesia (30% in favor), Pakistan (76% favor) and Nigeria (51% in favor).[114] Another survey conducted by Pew Research Center in 2012 among Muslim populations found little change in attitudes towards apostasy in Islamic countries it was able to conduct a survey. Death penalty for apostasy in Islam was favored by large majorities of Muslims in Egypt (86%), Jordan (82%), Afghanistan (79%), Pakistan (76%), Malaysia (62%), Palestinian Territories (66%); and significant percentage of Muslims in Lebanon (46%), Bangladesh (44%), Iraq (42%), Tunisia (29%), Tajikistan (22%), Indonesia (18%) and Turkey (17%).[115] Governments of six gulf countries - Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain and Kuwait - did not permit Pew Research to survey nationwide public opinion on apostasy in 2010 or 2012.

If they were beheading people in vatican city don't you think there would be an outcry?????

find a moderate muslim

I'm not Catholic, but it's well known the Catholic Church is against the death penalty, period, even for murder. Thou shalt not kill, only a God can judge humans, and all that. Was someone saying there is "no difference" between Islam and Christianity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband is Saudi so we know lots of Saudis who marry American girls and take them back to KSA. From what I've seen, conversions in this crowd are driven by the fact that life in KSA is 100% less troublesome for a Muslim.

This reminds me a goodbye party we had for friends of ours who were leaving. The woman is a social animal who loves good red wine, so we gave her a good rubbing about her conversion. She said, laughingly, "everyone assumes if you convert, you become some kind of zealot. I'll convert and be a bad Muslim, like at least 50% of them!"

I always thought that was a neat approach.

Yes, life is less troublesome. But more to the point is that if a non-Muslim wife does not convert to Islam cannot inherit from her husband if he dies. Financial security requires conversion unless she is independently wealthy.

The prohibition against drinking in Islam is not absolute like the prohibition against pork. The Koran says something along the lines of (and I refuse to look it up for this discussion): "In both drinking and gambling there is some that is good and much that is bad so it is better to refrain." Many Muslims I know drink, but will not do so around Muslims they don't know well (who could be flaming fundamentalists).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is Saudi so we know lots of Saudis who marry American girls and take them back to KSA. From what I've seen, conversions in this crowd are driven by the fact that life in KSA is 100% less troublesome for a Muslim.

This reminds me a goodbye party we had for friends of ours who were leaving. The woman is a social animal who loves good red wine, so we gave her a good rubbing about her conversion. She said, laughingly, "everyone assumes if you convert, you become some kind of zealot. I'll convert and be a bad Muslim, like at least 50% of them!"

I always thought that was a neat approach.

Yes, life is less troublesome. But more to the point is that if a non-Muslim wife does not convert to Islam cannot inherit from her husband if he dies. Financial security requires conversion unless she is independently wealthy.

The prohibition against drinking in Islam is not absolute like the prohibition against pork. The Koran says something along the lines of (and I refuse to look it up for this discussion): "In both drinking and gambling there is some that is good and much that is bad so it is better to refrain." Many Muslims I know drink, but will not do so around Muslims they don't know well (who could be flaming fundamentalists).

We actually have a couple of friends, both doctors, he Saudi, she Indian. They had to do a stint of a few years in Jeddah. The way they worked around that is keep all assets and money outside of KSA and have a power of attorney for custody of children executed for a cousin in Canada who was ready to fly in on a moment's notice if something happened to the husband and the wife lost custody of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is Saudi so we know lots of Saudis who marry American girls and take them back to KSA. From what I've seen, conversions in this crowd are driven by the fact that life in KSA is 100% less troublesome for a Muslim.

This reminds me a goodbye party we had for friends of ours who were leaving. The woman is a social animal who loves good red wine, so we gave her a good rubbing about her conversion. She said, laughingly, "everyone assumes if you convert, you become some kind of zealot. I'll convert and be a bad Muslim, like at least 50% of them!"

I always thought that was a neat approach.

Yes, life is less troublesome. But more to the point is that if a non-Muslim wife does not convert to Islam cannot inherit from her husband if he dies. Financial security requires conversion unless she is independently wealthy.

The prohibition against drinking in Islam is not absolute like the prohibition against pork. The Koran says something along the lines of (and I refuse to look it up for this discussion): "In both drinking and gambling there is some that is good and much that is bad so it is better to refrain." Many Muslims I know drink, but will not do so around Muslims they don't know well (who could be flaming fundamentalists).

We actually have a couple of friends, both doctors, he Saudi, she Indian. They had to do a stint of a few years in Jeddah. The way they worked around that is keep all assets and money outside of KSA and have a power of attorney for custody of children executed for a cousin in Canada who was ready to fly in on a moment's notice if something happened to the husband and the wife lost custody of kids.

Yes--good point about the kids. If the husband died, the wife would not get custody if she were not Muslim. Typically, it would go to her husband's brother.