Fairfax County Schools -- Is there a deterioration?

[Anonymous]

I imagine there are plenty of students with special needs who could benefit from staying in high school until age 22. It seems ludicrous that the taxpayers should be on the hook to educate ESOL students (who, if they immigrate at 18 by their own accord, have likely paid NO taxes up until this point), but don't offer services to anyone else once they age out. I'd love to know what this program is costing the taxpayers, as it apparently isn't working very well, at least according to one ESOL teacher who posted here. I understand the benefits of educating young kids who are brought here by their parents without any say in the matter and I'm alright with that, but I don't think it's the public schools' job to educate adults. Leave that to the local churches, outreach centers, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, no one will touch this. This is a federal issue and we are living the consequences locally.

How so? According to one poster FCPS is the only school district in the area that educates ESOL children to this age limit. How much does the federal government contribute to educate them an extra four years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I imagine there are plenty of students with special needs who could benefit from staying in high school until age 22. It seems ludicrous that the taxpayers should be on the hook to educate ESOL students (who, if they immigrate at 18 by their own accord, have likely paid NO taxes up until this point), but don't offer services to anyone else once they age out. I'd love to know what this program is costing the taxpayers, as it apparently isn't working very well, at least according to one ESOL teacher who posted here. I understand the benefits of educating young kids who are brought here by their parents without any say in the matter and I'm alright with that, but I don't think it's the public schools' job to educate adults. Leave that to the local churches, outreach centers, etc.

Depending on the special need, some student do stay in the public school system until age 22. They normal go to places like the Davis Center at Marshall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, no one will touch this. This is a federal issue and we are living the consequences locally.

How so? According to one poster FCPS is the only school district in the area that educates ESOL children to this age limit. How much does the federal government contribute to educate them an extra four years?

I wonder whether this is really true. Arlington is supposed to be the "progressive," bleeding-heart jurisdiction in NoVa. Would Fairfax really extend benefits to ESOL students that aren't available in Arlington?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The main topic of this discussion is diverted so let's stick to it.

Bad management,and unethical behaviours are the biggest problem in FCPS. Unless that changes, FCPS is not going to get any better but worse.

I don't how many agree to this but I totally agree, that is a big problem in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Arlington definitely has less budgetary issues.

It has its own issues, including major redistricting on the horizon and no more room to build traditional schools.

If you look at the top ranked schools in the state, FCPS still comes out ahead.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/virginia/rankings?schooltypepublic=y&int=c0b4c1&schooltypemagnet=y&state=VA&schooltypecharter=y

Except, US News isn't the arbiter of "top ranked schools." So, there's that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, no one will touch this. This is a federal issue and we are living the consequences locally.

How so? According to one poster FCPS is the only school district in the area that educates ESOL children to this age limit. How much does the federal government contribute to educate them an extra four years?

I wonder whether this is really true. Arlington is supposed to be the "progressive," bleeding-heart jurisdiction in NoVa. Would Fairfax really extend benefits to ESOL students that aren't available in Arlington?

I don't think so. Arlington has several special programs for non traditional older students. I think, though I am not sure, that these programs are separate from regular high schools. These 2 have no upper age limits:

http://www.apsva.us/domain/2746

http://www.apsva.us/domain/3736

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Arlington definitely has less budgetary issues.

It has its own issues, including major redistricting on the horizon and no more room to build traditional schools.

If you look at the top ranked schools in the state, FCPS still comes out ahead.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/virginia/rankings?schooltypepublic=y&int=c0b4c1&schooltypemagnet=y&state=VA&schooltypecharter=y

Except, US News isn't the arbiter of "top ranked schools." So, there's that.

It doesn't have the final say, but sticking one's head in the sand as to the reasons why Arlington schools are rated lower may not be the best approach, either. Each jurisdiction has its challenges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, no one will touch this. This is a federal issue and we are living the consequences locally.

How so? According to one poster FCPS is the only school district in the area that educates ESOL children to this age limit. How much does the federal government contribute to educate them an extra four years?

I wonder whether this is really true. Arlington is supposed to be the "progressive," bleeding-heart jurisdiction in NoVa. Would Fairfax really extend benefits to ESOL students that aren't available in Arlington?

I don't think so. Arlington has several special programs for non traditional older students. I think, though I am not sure, that these programs are separate from regular high schools. These 2 have no upper age limits:

http://www.apsva.us/domain/2746

http://www.apsva.us/domain/3736

I am the FCPS teacher. As far as I know FCPS is the only school that allows ESOL students to stay in REGULAR public high schools until they are 22. FCPS also has programs (Pimmit, Mountain View, etc) where students can stay longer, too, but those are voluntary - no student is placed there after going through central registration. IMO, the issue is that they are in the regular schools - it doesn't serve the students well and it doesn't serve the teachers well. They need a specific program where they can focus on getting caught up to speed - not just being thrown into a regular high school where they are expected to progress quickly, take SOLs, and graduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:California is a bellweather for the rest of the country in many respects, with its large and largely successful confluence of immigrant populations from Asia, Eastern Europe, Latin America, and the Middle East.

For many decades the schools segregated themselves by SES. All CA public schools are very diverse communities, but those with more affluent parent communities, higher on the SES, tended to be the best public schools. Families in less successful public school districts tended to use the private schools -- of which many developed to meet their demands and needs.

Now, with the exception of the poor, urban neighborhoods, you are seeing families return to the local public schools, even in traditionally not-so-great districts. Why? I think families reconsidered the ever-increasing costs if private schools. Also, Californians -- once perhaps wary of the immigrant influx -- came to value and embrace their new neighbors as the first-generation learners turned into successful second-generation strivers, and as a very high-achieving new immigrant populations moved in and brought new life to the public schools.

This renewed influx and investment in the schools has again created a healthy, traditional, successful, and thriving public schools environment. -- like you may remember growing up. The California public schools are currently very socio-economically, racially, ethnically, and socially diverse places -- and increasingly a model of success in public education again on many fronts.

The DC metropolitan region seems to be at the beginning of a cycle that for California began decades ago, and which is finally working its way to a more positive place today.

I'm not sure where you get your information but it's completely wrong. California public schools are as segregated by SES, if not a lot more, as in any other state in the country. The attendant ethnic segregation ensues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And then at age 22 when they get this degree, what can they now do that they couldn't before? Do they then need more schooling? When will they be able to start working? Most kids are done with college by age 22.

By this logic, why should we care if anyone not going to college graduates from high school?

We generally believe there is value in finishing high school/earning a high school diploma, regardless of future plans. If it's valuable for Tom Smith to get a high school diploma, why isn't it valuable for Tomas Juarez?

... because the schools are jam packed already and Juan Valdez is an adult who can go to a remedial class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, no one will touch this. This is a federal issue and we are living the consequences locally.

How so? According to one poster FCPS is the only school district in the area that educates ESOL children to this age limit. How much does the federal government contribute to educate them an extra four years?

I wonder whether this is really true. Arlington is supposed to be the "progressive," bleeding-heart jurisdiction in NoVa. Would Fairfax really extend benefits to ESOL students that aren't available in Arlington?

I don't think so. Arlington has several special programs for non traditional older students. I think, though I am not sure, that these programs are separate from regular high schools. These 2 have no upper age limits:

http://www.apsva.us/domain/2746

http://www.apsva.us/domain/3736

I am the FCPS teacher. As far as I know FCPS is the only school that allows ESOL students to stay in REGULAR public high schools until they are 22. FCPS also has programs (Pimmit, Mountain View, etc) where students can stay longer, too, but those are voluntary - no student is placed there after going through central registration. IMO, the issue is that they are in the regular schools - it doesn't serve the students well and it doesn't serve the teachers well. They need a specific program where they can focus on getting caught up to speed - not just being thrown into a regular high school where they are expected to progress quickly, take SOLs, and graduate.

I agree with this, but where do we draw the line? There are quite a few HS students who are 18 and nearly 19 in the HS simply because they were red shirted as kindergarteners or were held back at some point. Do you set a hard and fast rule based on age or is it more nuanced?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, no one will touch this. This is a federal issue and we are living the consequences locally.

How so? According to one poster FCPS is the only school district in the area that educates ESOL children to this age limit. How much does the federal government contribute to educate them an extra four years?

I wonder whether this is really true. Arlington is supposed to be the "progressive," bleeding-heart jurisdiction in NoVa. Would Fairfax really extend benefits to ESOL students that aren't available in Arlington?

I don't think so. Arlington has several special programs for non traditional older students. I think, though I am not sure, that these programs are separate from regular high schools. These 2 have no upper age limits:

http://www.apsva.us/domain/2746

http://www.apsva.us/domain/3736

I am the FCPS teacher. As far as I know FCPS is the only school that allows ESOL students to stay in REGULAR public high schools until they are 22. FCPS also has programs (Pimmit, Mountain View, etc) where students can stay longer, too, but those are voluntary - no student is placed there after going through central registration. IMO, the issue is that they are in the regular schools - it doesn't serve the students well and it doesn't serve the teachers well. They need a specific program where they can focus on getting caught up to speed - not just being thrown into a regular high school where they are expected to progress quickly, take SOLs, and graduate.

I agree with this, but where do we draw the line? There are quite a few HS students who are 18 and nearly 19 in the HS simply because they were red shirted as kindergarteners or were held back at some point. Do you set a hard and fast rule based on age or is it more nuanced?

For ESOL, I think it should be based on level. If they come through central registration with a 3rd grade education and are placed at ESOL level 1 or 2, there is really no possible way they can earn enough credits to graduate - even by age 22. They have way too much ground to make up - and the reality is they often get really frustrated when they see all that they have to do and often end up dropping out. If they come in as a level 3 or 4 and are well educated in their home country, it's possible if they work really, really hard, that they could graduate by 22.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, no one will touch this. This is a federal issue and we are living the consequences locally.

How so? According to one poster FCPS is the only school district in the area that educates ESOL children to this age limit. How much does the federal government contribute to educate them an extra four years?

I wonder whether this is really true. Arlington is supposed to be the "progressive," bleeding-heart jurisdiction in NoVa. Would Fairfax really extend benefits to ESOL students that aren't available in Arlington?

I don't think so. Arlington has several special programs for non traditional older students. I think, though I am not sure, that these programs are separate from regular high schools. These 2 have no upper age limits:

http://www.apsva.us/domain/2746

http://www.apsva.us/domain/3736

I am the FCPS teacher. As far as I know FCPS is the only school that allows ESOL students to stay in REGULAR public high schools until they are 22. FCPS also has programs (Pimmit, Mountain View, etc) where students can stay longer, too, but those are voluntary - no student is placed there after going through central registration. IMO, the issue is that they are in the regular schools - it doesn't serve the students well and it doesn't serve the teachers well. They need a specific program where they can focus on getting caught up to speed - not just being thrown into a regular high school where they are expected to progress quickly, take SOLs, and graduate.

I agree with this, but where do we draw the line? There are quite a few HS students who are 18 and nearly 19 in the HS simply because they were red shirted as kindergarteners or were held back at some point. Do you set a hard and fast rule based on age or is it more nuanced?

For ESOL, I think it should be based on level. If they come through central registration with a 3rd grade education and are placed at ESOL level 1 or 2, there is really no possible way they can earn enough credits to graduate - even by age 22. They have way too much ground to make up - and the reality is they often get really frustrated when they see all that they have to do and often end up dropping out. If they come in as a level 3 or 4 and are well educated in their home country, it's possible if they work really, really hard, that they could graduate by 22.

I meant to say if they come it at age 18 and are ESOL level 1 or 2.

[Anonymous]

We just left a FFX public school for private last year. The main reason wasn't over crowding but those damn SOLs. Every night we'd ask the kids what they did in school. It seems all they did was an SOL practice test, SOL study guide, or something SOL related.

Yes, we still test but for the first time they are learning grammar, cursive, and literature. They are reading books and doing book reports that help them comprehend what they read. Not just writing an essay but creative ways such as making timelines about the story line, newspaper articles, plays, music lyrics, etc.

VA public schools take a writing SOL in certain grades. How many children in the system can use good grammar when it's not taught? My daughter is in 5th grade and knows what subjects and predicates, adjective phrases, and what subject compliments are, do public educated kids? Sure they know basic parts of speech.

The current system of teaching the test isn't working, and until it changes my kids will stay out of the system. It's not a budget issue, or an over crowding issue but a philosophy issue.