Someone please explain to me the difference between tracking and the AAP program/centers.

[Anonymous]

Actually ther are so many behavior problems in our neighborhood school without the center kids. I think the interruptions would be absolutely uncontrollable if the center kids were there to.

[Anonymous]

How about when the teacher does not like your child and she screws up the GBRS score for your child ? How do you defend that your child who is absolutely deserving AAp is denied the opportunity because partially this falls on how the AART , the other teachers , local committee provide feedback, sample work etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren't all children getting an equal opportunity for advanced elementary education?
Has this been forgotten; "Equal opportunity education for all students"!!
It still isn't equal in 2014!

Some kids are stupider.

Yes, but even the stupidest kids (your phrasing, not mine!) deserve and receive an equal opportunity for advanced elementary education. So FCPS is complying with its requirements! As has already been said on this thread, "equal opportunity" does not mean "equal, period."

They deserve and should receive whatever level of education they're capable of. Not everybody is capable of being advanced. All kids are tested; they have an equal opportunity to get into AAP. Some kids simply aren't bright enough to handle a program like AAP.

There are kids who are too advanced for gen ed, as it is now, and are deemed not eligible for AAP. Those kids aren't being properly served. Something needs to be done to fix this, otherwise you'll have even more crazed parents doing everything possible to get into AAP and even more angry parents of these kids who fall into that gap arguing how unfair and unequal AAP is. I think the whole tracking is bad mentality is what created this divide. Not sure how you get around that.

Yeah, I could see that. I think the local level III etc was supposed to address that, but it doesn't appear that that is the case.

[Anonymous]

I think everyone needs to be clear that tracking is not going to happen. Part of this is due to the legally enforceable mandate that children receiving IEPs are educated in the Least Restrictive Environment. If there was tracking in elementary, children's with learning disabilities etc. would be most likely be defacto put in a "lower track" and consequently be in a more restrictive environment. Unless a child has considerable disabilities whose needs can not be met in a general education setting, they will be mainstreamed in a variety of ways.
LRE is one of the primary considerations of IDEA and it will not change and tracking will not happen.

AAP eligibility is based on multiple criteria and essentially is stating that children found eligible need a specialized environment, similar to special education self-contained settings. Gifted kids in many other states (Pennsylvania, etc) are on IEPs and go through a larger process to be eligible for services. Maybe in time this same larger process (wisc testing by School Psychologists, etc) will occur here, but it is too darn expensive for this district at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread was started for an explanation for the difference between tracking and the AAP program. In reading through the post it seems to me the consenses is that indeed the AAP program is absolutely tracking. So why then do FCPS teachers, at least several I have raised this question to, think that it is not tracking and treat tracking like it is a dirty word. Perhaps the fact that AAP is tracking is why FCPS is filling it with a larger percentage of above average students. I think they need justification for keeping the program. Personally I think they have crated a "monster" by lowering the standards for center admittance. To get rid of the tracking aspect they need to raise the bar for center admittance to accomodate only the truly exceptional academic students. All others should have their needs met in their assigned schools. It is absolutly wrong to give some above average learners advanced class work and not others (not to mention the check box on their school records). The admittance process is terribly flawed for an advanced academic program. Many of the students in the program are not advanced academically and many students who are advanced are not "selected" because of the favoritism and horrible subjectivity which is used in the selection process for all levels of the current AAP program.

You completely nailed it. Thank you for this post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about when the teacher does not like your child and she screws up the GBRS score for your child ? How do you defend that your child who is absolutely deserving AAp is denied the opportunity because partially this falls on how the AART , the other teachers , local committee provide feedback, sample work etc.

Yet another reason the process needs a revamp, requiring much higher cutoff scores and no subjective input from others. You're in or you're not, based on your scores. Right now, far too many parents are going to of course regard their kids as gifted and refer them. This process needs to stop, and FCPS needs to take a good hard look at test scores to determine who is actually in need of a 'specialized' education. AAP could easily be cut in half by raising the cutoff scores, and then we wouldn't need centers or hear about overcrowding, none of which is the fault of the Gen Ed kids. FCPS has created this monster and now they need to rein it in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about when the teacher does not like your child and she screws up the GBRS score for your child ? How do you defend that your child who is absolutely deserving AAp is denied the opportunity because partially this falls on how the AART , the other teachers , local committee provide feedback, sample work etc.

Yet another reason the process needs a revamp, requiring much higher cutoff scores and no subjective input from others. You're in or you're not, based on your scores. Right now, far too many parents are going to of course regard their kids as gifted and refer them. This process needs to stop, and FCPS needs to take a good hard look at test scores to determine who is actually in need of a 'specialized' education. AAP could easily be cut in half by raising the cutoff scores, and then we wouldn't need centers or hear about overcrowding, none of which is the fault of the Gen Ed kids. FCPS has created this monster and now they need to rein it in.

Ditto!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yet another reason the process needs a revamp, requiring much higher cutoff scores and no subjective input from others. You're in or you're not, based on your scores.

Such an approach runs counter to the Commonwealth of Virginia regulations.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+reg+8VAC20-40-40

3. The identification process used by each school division must ensure that no single criterion is used to determine a student's eligibility. The identification process shall include at least three measures from the following categories:
a. Assessment of appropriate student products, performance, or portfolio;
b. Record of observation of in-classroom behavior;
c. Appropriate rating scales, checklists, or questionnaires;
d. Individual interview;
e. Individually administered or group-administered, nationally norm-referenced aptitude or achievement tests;
f. Record of previous accomplishments (such as awards, honors, grades, etc.); or
g. Additional valid and reliable measures or procedures.

[Anonymous]

No single criteria but 7 of which 3 are being manipulated to benefit a few. Look I get why you all want your cild in AAP I just don't agree with the process to get there. Many children are being left in the middle and the current AAP program is directly to blame. Why the hell do so many of you seem to have no concern about this and only care about what your child gets. If you didn't, you wouldn't argue so adamently to keep the program the way it is today. My guess is the majority of post here are from parents of average children who manipulated the system. I have to believe parents of truly gifted children want the best for ALL children as I know they have their own set of challenges with a "truly gifted" child. There is more to this education thing then your child and this program has issues. Ya know eventually you'll be gone and your child will need to make it on their own.

[Anonymous]

Exactly why I want them in AAP - one day I will be gone, and I need to make sure that they get the best while I am still here. It is the least that I can do. I mean, really, it is

[Anonymous]

Oh my god...that response was so predictable. In therapy for your narcissisum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone needs to be clear that tracking is not going to happen. Part of this is due to the legally enforceable mandate that children receiving IEPs are educated in the Least Restrictive Environment. If there was tracking in elementary, children's with learning disabilities etc. would be most likely be defacto put in a "lower track" and consequently be in a more restrictive environment. Unless a child has considerable disabilities whose needs can not be met in a general education setting, they will be mainstreamed in a variety of ways.
LRE is one of the primary considerations of IDEA and it will not change and tracking will not happen.

AAP eligibility is based on multiple criteria and essentially is stating that children found eligible need a specialized environment, similar to special education self-contained settings. Gifted kids in many other states (Pennsylvania, etc) are on IEPs and go through a larger process to be eligible for services. Maybe in time this same larger process (wisc testing by School Psychologists, etc) will occur here, but it is too darn expensive for this district at this point.

IT ALREADY IS HAPPENING!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No single criteria but 7 of which 3 are being manipulated to benefit a few. Look I get why you all want your cild in AAP I just don't agree with the process to get there. Many children are being left in the middle and the current AAP program is directly to blame. Why the hell do so many of you seem to have no concern about this and only care about what your child gets. If you didn't, you wouldn't argue so adamently to keep the program the way it is today. My guess is the majority of post here are from parents of average children who manipulated the system. I have to believe parents of truly gifted children want the best for ALL children as I know they have their own set of challenges with a "truly gifted" child. There is more to this education thing then your child and this program has issues. Ya know eventually you'll be gone and your child will need to make it on their own.

The current AAP system is not to blame for the Gen Ed program's failure with respect to high achieving kids. It's the opposite way around. So many more parents feel the need to push their kids into AAP, leading to an explosion in APP numbers, because the Gen Ed program isn't doing enough to challenge high achieving kids. A major problem is expecting in-class differentiation by one teacher when there are at least 3 levels of differentiation needed, with often times the lowest group needing a significant amount of help to be brought up to basics. That leaves little time for the high achievers. If across grade grouping by subject/ability was allowed, the high achievers would be served and many parents wouldn't feel like their kids were being neglected. That would erase some of the parents' perception that their child needs to be in AAP because their child would already be appropriately challenged based on his or her strength in each subject. In-class differentiation by one teacher for all levels is the problem, and until that's fixed, the AAP craziness and discontent with gen ed for high achieving kids will continue. The across grade differentiation is a fluid process and its by subject, so I don't think it is "tracking", so I'm not sure why it's not done in more schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Exactly why I want them in AAP - one day I will be gone, and I need to make sure that they get the best while I am still here. It is the least that I can do. I mean, really, it is

And along the way you give them a great lesson in getting what THEY want, no matter how it affects anyone else. Bravo!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly why I want them in AAP - one day I will be gone, and I need to make sure that they get the best while I am still here. It is the least that I can do. I mean, really, it is

And along the way you give them a great lesson in getting what THEY want, no matter how it affects anyone else. Bravo!

well they didn't really care one way or the other. I'm the one who wanted them in. Glad I did