How does your family survive making under 200k hhi

[Anonymous]

Ok, I've seen the word "substandard" used twice on this thread and it just baffles me that people think a home costing less than 3k/month or childcare less than 1.5k/month is by definition substandard.

A family of four can easily and comfortably live in a 2 bedroom condo, which just outside the district you can have for a mortgage of less than 2k/month. Licensed, qualified, experience childcare can be found at 1k/month just outside the district.

You people really have no understanding of what hardship is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP asked about how people budget their money with less than 200K HHI *and 2 kids in daycare* but half the respondents here have older kids or don't use daycare at all. Daycare is a huge expense. It would be nice to hear more responses from people who are actually in the circumstances OP describes.

When our kids were in daycare we were living on way less than $200k a year(~110k). Daycare and mortgages seems to keep pace with each other. This is what we did and our friends did. Live within your means. Bought a smaller house (based of one of our incomes not combined - largest is 1800 sqft). Or Rent. Or Rent a house with another couple with small children and combine expenses and save for a large down payment. Find cheaper daycare (home daycares are the cheapest and they are out there- it takes some networking to find them). If you already own a house, make an income suite. Bring your lunch. Cook at home. Swap babysitting with another couple(s). Have potlucks. Join a religious community (plenty out there for all types of belief systems). Exercise by walking/running around neighborhood. Drive cars for 10+ years and take care of them. Put % of money in savings first then figure out budget from what is left. Take kids to zoo, museums-library- tons and tons of free stuff out there. Think before you buy. Buy on sale. Don't overbuy clothes. Decrease your dry cleaning bill by half every year until it is minimal. Make changes gradually - you don't have redo your entire house the minute you purchase it. Do as much of it yourself. Vacation at family house (grandma, sisters.......). Plan your meals and use what is on sale and in season. Plant an herb garden- best bang for buck and effort. Payoff credit cards every month - if you can't don't use them. Live like you lived in college/graduate school - as cheaply as possible. Buy younger kids clothes at church sales and yard sales- they don't wear them long enough to wear them out. Buy your children one or two pair of high quality shoes - they grow out of them every 3 months. One pair is usually enough. Keep temp low in winter and high in summer. No Starbucks and the like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a frugal people. All four of our parents grew up during the depression and came of age during the rationing of WWII. With the exception of a house and occasionally a car, we buy when we have the money (pay as you go).

We wash our shirts (only use dry cleaners a few times a year). We don't do Starbucks. We don't buy lunch more than once a week. We eat real food prepared at home. We keep our thermostat at 68' in the winter and 74' in the summer. We did the non sexy stuff to our house first (insulated, roof, efficient heating and Air conditioning). We drive cars until they die, but take care of them so they don't die prematurely. We fix things, reuse things then recycle them. We buy high quality clothes that last and not tons of them ( we have a regular closet- no walk in). We mow our own lawn. We do get an every other week housecleaner. We plan our errands. We plan our purchases. We tithe. We don't go to concerts or plays (except local free or nearly free ones). We use the library weekly. We clean our own gutters. We go to family for summer vacations most years (have a bigger vacation every 2-4 years- use VBRO type of places). We use DH's frequent flyer miles when we fly (which is not often). We host potlucks. DH has a smart phone from work, but the DCs and I have a pay as you go phones that cost $100/year each. We have purchased couches, beds and mattresses, but most of our other furniture is "inherited" (I call it 'early attic'). We have done renovations to our house once we have saved up the money. We wash and reuse our zip lock bags. We use cloths napkins and dish towels instead of paper in the kitchen. We use rags for cleaning instead of paper towels. From the get go, we set our expenses off of one salary and saved as much as we could.

Little things add up. It isn't just the Starbucks habit- it is 12-24 Starbuck type habits.

Wow! Way to live large, dude.

Way to work until you drop dead, dude. But you will have wonderful memories of driving a leased beemer and popping your collar at your bottle service table to get you through those difficult years of working as a geriatric.

NP here, I would rather work until I was older but live a good life, rather than penny pinch to retire early.

Assuming you're able to work is a big gamble. You or a spouse could have health problems. The economy could shift. Older workers are more susceptible to layoffs and discrimination. Why would you even want to put your eggs in the "I'll work longer" basket?

I'm not the pessimistic type and don't believe in "what ifs," but that particular what-if is one I wouldn't take a chance on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been tracking our household expenses for a few months and just dont kniw how other families with 2 dc in daycare survive making under 200k. I don't feel we spend extravagantly at all. We have two used toyotas the newest is 4 years old. We have a modest 2000sqft house, still furnishing the house slowly, go on 2 vacations a year somewhere on the east coast, eat out maybe 1-2x a week, buy whats necessary for clothing... I do try to buy a lot of organic foods to cook. For the year, we easily spend 130k, which is 200k+ a year gross. How do families in this area survive on less?

OP, I'd say you're doing great if you can afford TWO vacations a year and to eat our 2x a week! Are you also maxing your 401Ks? We decided we justa couldn't save and tried to stay out of debt when we had childcare expense. It does get better - hang in there. It can be discouraging with so many wealthy families around here...easy to feel defeated, don't fall into it... Be grateful you're here in DC!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a frugal people. All four of our parents grew up during the depression and came of age during the rationing of WWII. With the exception of a house and occasionally a car, we buy when we have the money (pay as you go).

We wash our shirts (only use dry cleaners a few times a year). We don't do Starbucks. We don't buy lunch more than once a week. We eat real food prepared at home. We keep our thermostat at 68' in the winter and 74' in the summer. We did the non sexy stuff to our house first (insulated, roof, efficient heating and Air conditioning). We drive cars until they die, but take care of them so they don't die prematurely. We fix things, reuse things then recycle them. We buy high quality clothes that last and not tons of them ( we have a regular closet- no walk in). We mow our own lawn. We do get an every other week housecleaner. We plan our errands. We plan our purchases. We tithe. We don't go to concerts or plays (except local free or nearly free ones). We use the library weekly. We clean our own gutters. We go to family for summer vacations most years (have a bigger vacation every 2-4 years- use VBRO type of places). We use DH's frequent flyer miles when we fly (which is not often). We host potlucks. DH has a smart phone from work, but the DCs and I have a pay as you go phones that cost $100/year each. We have purchased couches, beds and mattresses, but most of our other furniture is "inherited" (I call it 'early attic'). We have done renovations to our house once we have saved up the money. We wash and reuse our zip lock bags. We use cloths napkins and dish towels instead of paper in the kitchen. We use rags for cleaning instead of paper towels. From the get go, we set our expenses off of one salary and saved as much as we could.

Little things add up. It isn't just the Starbucks habit- it is 12-24 Starbuck type habits.

Wow! Way to live large, dude.

Way to work until you drop dead, dude. But you will have wonderful memories of driving a leased beemer and popping your collar at your bottle service table to get you through those difficult years of working as a geriatric.

NP here, I would rather work until I was older but live a good life, rather than penny pinch to retire early.

I have a friend with your attitude. He makes an okay income (~110k, works for the feds) but has 2 kids and a spouse at home. Dude lives it up. They have an Escalade and some other sporty car, huge projector in the basement, gigantic deck that he had built, I think he may have a hot tub by now, vacations to various island locations and Disneyworld every year. If he ever loses his job, they will be out in the street, and he will never be financially secure.

I hope you aren't as foolish as he is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP asked about how people budget their money with less than 200K HHI *and 2 kids in daycare* but half the respondents here have older kids or don't use daycare at all. Daycare is a huge expense. It would be nice to hear more responses from people who are actually in the circumstances OP describes.

We're in the same situation, or more accurately, will be in 6 months. We make just under 200k. Here are our general budget and we live in Alexandria.

Rent - just under 1800 for 2 bd condo (about 800 sq ft)
Childcare - currently $1150/month, will be $2300/month with two
Food - about 1k/month (we don't skimp on this - we eat organic, local through a farm share and eat mostly fresh produce, very little processed stuff)
Utilities - $80-150/month (a lot is included in rent)
Car - $400/month (= payment + insurance + gas)
Student loans - $500/month
Random shopping (clothes, sippy cups, household items) - $100-200/month

Retirement - we put away approx 10% if you include employer matching
529 savings - $750-1000/month
Saving up for a down payment - $2-2.5k/month

To OP's question, we survive by living in the burbs (though we're just across the Potomac, so my commute to work is quicker than many of my friends who live in the district), using a licensed in-home provider instead of a center for childcare, cooking from scratch, and not shopping. I get new clothes every 2-3 years and I don't wear designer labels. I don't go for weekly manicures, I do my own eyebrows, I get my haircut once or twice a year - basically I take it upon myself to look nice and presentable. I don't contract that out to professionals and over the years, I've found ways to make that work. I did take a make up/skincare class years ago, but I think anyone really can learn to do these things yourself and look just as nice as some one who's at the salon every week. For vacations - we pretty much just visit family because our families are spread far and wide. We usually do a mini 1-2 day vacation within the vacation to get our own time, but airfare really is the biggest expense in our travel budget. We stay with family and only have 2-3 nights a year in a hotel - for which, we use AirBnB. We also aren't plowing through our loans as quickly as we would if we were without childcare expenses, but we're not overwhelmed by it and we're making good progress, will finish them off well ahead of schedule. So it is what it is. At least we don't have credit card debt.

We started living a certain way when we got our first jobs out of grad school and we haven't really upped our lifestyle since then, even though our income has doubled, aside from going from 1 bd --> 2 bd and now paying for childcare.

PP, may I ask exactly where in Alexandria do you live? We're in Alexandria (Carlyle) and pay $1800 (include water, sewer, parking fees) for a <700 sqt 1- bdrm! We plan to move when our lease is up, but would like to remain in the general area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They either rent or bought 10+ years ago, or live in an area with bad schools.

Mom stays at home, or grandma watches the kids, or they use a really cheap in-home daycare.

They never eat out.

They never go on vacations.

We are 35. We bought in 2009 (700k) in a great school district (HS in top 5 in VA). We have a 3800/month nanny. Make almost exactly 200k now, made substantially less 3 years ago. We max our 401k, IRAs, and save for college. Now, we vacation inexpensively, we drive paid off cars, did not have student loans, and we mostly eat at home. We have a net worth of almost 800k. You can live very well on 200k in this area. You can't live like the kardashians, but few can. Seems like many have a twisted sense of what "average" and "middle class" are. Take a couple minutes and see where your money goes. Evaluate wants vs needs, decide what is important to you, but don't complain and poor mouth when you are in the top 3-5% of incomes. It's just rude.

You make $200,000 HHI. Most other people do not, so they cannot pay 700K for a house, have a $3800/month nanny, etc.

It depends where you live, on the census map certain zip codes have median income of 200K. Those same zip codes are the good schools with acceptable commutes. In those zip codes 700k is barely above a teardown and may be in fact a small fixer upper house. With two parents working daycare is also very expensive unless you do something that is substandard. Daycare costs about 1500-1800 a child.

+1million -- I get so frustrated by family living in low cost areas who think we are "rich" because our income is around OP's range. Do you people not live in school districts where the PTA fundraiser is at expensive Potomac Pizza? Do your kids not ask to go to the movies? C'mon...there are all kinds of day to day expenses that most would consider normal, middle class life, and yet I think it is very tough to live in NW DC/close-in burbs with a family of four if you're not making...I don't know, cuz we're not making it... $300,000 at least? Like OP, we make just south of $200K but in addition to that we have medical expense of at least $1K a month. It is hard and our kid thinks we're "poor" because of his warped perception...I complain about the movies, expensive fundraisers, etc...how do people do it??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

+1million -- I get so frustrated by family living in low cost areas who think we are "rich" because our income is around OP's range. Do you people not live in school districts where the PTA fundraiser is at expensive Potomac Pizza? Do your kids not ask to go to the movies? C'mon...there are all kinds of day to day expenses that most would consider normal, middle class life, and yet I think it is very tough to live in NW DC/close-in burbs with a family of four if you're not making...I don't know, cuz we're not making it... $300,000 at least? Like OP, we make just south of $200K but in addition to that we have medical expense of at least $1K a month. It is hard and our kid thinks we're "poor" because of his warped perception...I complain about the movies, expensive fundraisers, etc...how do people do it??

Guess what--your income doesn't support living in upper NW or the close-in burbs, no matter how much you want it to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1million -- I get so frustrated by family living in low cost areas who think we are "rich" because our income is around OP's range. Do you people not live in school districts where the PTA fundraiser is at expensive Potomac Pizza? Do your kids not ask to go to the movies? C'mon...there are all kinds of day to day expenses that most would consider normal, middle class life, and yet I think it is very tough to live in NW DC/close-in burbs with a family of four if you're not making...I don't know, cuz we're not making it... $300,000 at least? Like OP, we make just south of $200K but in addition to that we have medical expense of at least $1K a month. It is hard and our kid thinks we're "poor" because of his warped perception...I complain about the movies, expensive fundraisers, etc...how do people do it??

Guess what--your income doesn't support living in upper NW or the close-in burbs, no matter how much you want it to.

This is 13:01, whom you responded to...uh, yes, I know which is the point of this thread. HOWEVER, we bought BEFORE we had kids. We purposely bought under our means (one of those small typical 1500 sq ft 1940s colonials all over Bethesda/DC/Silver Spring). We're NOT going to move. Our kids are in a great school district, they have great friends, easy commute to work, we walk everywhere we can...many positives.

I remember when I was single, making $90 - $140K on my own and thinking, "How do these married guys do it?" They all lived WAY out in the burbs with SAHM...there is definitely more societal pressure if you live in DC/close-in. In addition to the fundraisers I mentioned, even the churches are crazy...If we go to our weekly church dinner, that's about $40!! Activities with church and scout groups cost too...And I think many of these posts about budgets are totally underestimating what people actually spend.

That said, we have a lot saved for retirement, we have investments, etc...which we really try not to touch. Long term I think we'll be fine, but short term it is just NO FUN to live frugally here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that if you stop going to Starbucks, all of your financial problems will disappear.

and cable, don't forget axing cable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that if you stop going to Starbucks, all of your financial problems will disappear.

and cable, don't forget axing cable.

and packing a lunch every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP asked about how people budget their money with less than 200K HHI *and 2 kids in daycare* but half the respondents here have older kids or don't use daycare at all. Daycare is a huge expense. It would be nice to hear more responses from people who are actually in the circumstances OP describes.

We're in the same situation, or more accurately, will be in 6 months. We make just under 200k. Here are our general budget and we live in Alexandria.

Rent - just under 1800 for 2 bd condo (about 800 sq ft)
Childcare - currently $1150/month, will be $2300/month with two
Food - about 1k/month (we don't skimp on this - we eat organic, local through a farm share and eat mostly fresh produce, very little processed stuff)
Utilities - $80-150/month (a lot is included in rent)
Car - $400/month (= payment + insurance + gas)
Student loans - $500/month
Random shopping (clothes, sippy cups, household items) - $100-200/month

Retirement - we put away approx 10% if you include employer matching
529 savings - $750-1000/month
Saving up for a down payment - $2-2.5k/month

To OP's question, we survive by living in the burbs (though we're just across the Potomac, so my commute to work is quicker than many of my friends who live in the district), using a licensed in-home provider instead of a center for childcare, cooking from scratch, and not shopping. I get new clothes every 2-3 years and I don't wear designer labels. I don't go for weekly manicures, I do my own eyebrows, I get my haircut once or twice a year - basically I take it upon myself to look nice and presentable. I don't contract that out to professionals and over the years, I've found ways to make that work. I did take a make up/skincare class years ago, but I think anyone really can learn to do these things yourself and look just as nice as some one who's at the salon every week. For vacations - we pretty much just visit family because our families are spread far and wide. We usually do a mini 1-2 day vacation within the vacation to get our own time, but airfare really is the biggest expense in our travel budget. We stay with family and only have 2-3 nights a year in a hotel - for which, we use AirBnB. We also aren't plowing through our loans as quickly as we would if we were without childcare expenses, but we're not overwhelmed by it and we're making good progress, will finish them off well ahead of schedule. So it is what it is. At least we don't have credit card debt.

We started living a certain way when we got our first jobs out of grad school and we haven't really upped our lifestyle since then, even though our income has doubled, aside from going from 1 bd --> 2 bd and now paying for childcare.

PP, may I ask exactly where in Alexandria do you live? We're in Alexandria (Carlyle) and pay $1800 (include water, sewer, parking fees) for a <700 sqt 1- bdrm! We plan to move when our lease is up, but would like to remain in the general area.

We're renting a condo directly from the couple who owns it. We're in North Old Town. We did rent in Alexandria for a year but found our rental company wanted to up the rent 15% in the second year and all our Alexandria friends were facing the same BS so we decided to rent directly from landowners who have a fairly predictable mortgage they're trying to cover. It's worked out well for us. There are some websites and real estate firms that specialize in these kind of listings but we found ours through a neighborhood listserve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that if you stop going to Starbucks, all of your financial problems will disappear.

and cable, don't forget axing cable.

and packing a lunch every day.

Don't knock it til you try it. When DH stopped working from home and was in an office every day, eating out for lunch & grabbing coffee with coworkers, we quickly realized lunch out + coffee for two working adults can easily be $600+/month! I haven't had cable in years, but that's what - $150-200? So cutting cable and lunch/coffee out at work could save you $800/month. That's not chump change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that if you stop going to Starbucks, all of your financial problems will disappear.

and cable, don't forget axing cable.

and packing a lunch every day.

Perhaps the fact that you mock this kind of idea goes a long way to explaining why you're complaining about how to make ends meet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that if you stop going to Starbucks, all of your financial problems will disappear.

and cable, don't forget axing cable.

and packing a lunch every day.

Perhaps the fact that you mock this kind of idea goes a long way to explaining why you're complaining about how to make ends meet?

I didn't complain about anything. I'm doing great financially. There are many people posting in this thread.

What I am mocking is the bare bones approach that does little to instill proper habits, and doesn't remedy a lifetime of poor decision-making.