How does your family survive making under 200k hhi

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all the replies here, but I'd say that your definition of "survival" is probably what's making you feel so strapped. $3k per month mortgage (I think you said) is not a bargain mortgage. $1100 per month for food and kids stuff (again, I think you said) does not sound like people who are trying to keep their spending down. I'm not saying it's easy to live in this area on incomes that are anywhere near normal - but to characterize your spending as barely surviving is really making it seem as if you live in a bubble.

You want to live a higher-income life than you comfortably have, is what it comes down to. And, look, I'm the same way - husb and I earn about $150k, have no kids, pay $600 per month toward student loans, $2k per month for rent. And it seems like we are just barely keeping our heads above water. But in reality that is bullshit. We order in food every time we want it. We keep an expensive cable package because we feel like keeping it. I buy clothes a fair amount. My husband likes to buy comic books. We may not have a whole lot of savings, and we may not have a huge amount of extra $ once we're done accounting for all the stuff we buy - but that's not barely surviving!

Comment again after having two kids on your salary.

Do you expect PP to think a $3k mortgage is modest once s/he has 2 kids? We have two and I think a $3k mortgage would be ridiculous at a HHI of 200k, which is about how much we make. I wouldn't go above 2k/month for mortgage or rent. $1k for food & supplies is about what we spend but we're buying organic, local, seasonal food through a farm share. If we felt cash strapped, we could definitely cut that down - PP is right. If you spend 3k on a mortgage, another 3k on childcare, and 1k on food+diapers, you're cash strapped because you're living immodestly, not because you're poor.

My numbers never seem to add up when I read these threads. We make about $190K per year and take home $9,600 per month after taxes, health insurance and $1300 per month for 401K (FWIW I also get 5% matching and she gets like 12% of her salary bonus to her 401k). Seems like it would be easy to afford a 3K mortgage (PITI) on that amount of money.

[Anonymous]

I paid for a 4k mortgage with similar numbers. It was definitely tight. But 4k is a lot more than 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all the replies here, but I'd say that your definition of "survival" is probably what's making you feel so strapped. $3k per month mortgage (I think you said) is not a bargain mortgage. $1100 per month for food and kids stuff (again, I think you said) does not sound like people who are trying to keep their spending down. I'm not saying it's easy to live in this area on incomes that are anywhere near normal - but to characterize your spending as barely surviving is really making it seem as if you live in a bubble.

You want to live a higher-income life than you comfortably have, is what it comes down to. And, look, I'm the same way - husb and I earn about $150k, have no kids, pay $600 per month toward student loans, $2k per month for rent. And it seems like we are just barely keeping our heads above water. But in reality that is bullshit. We order in food every time we want it. We keep an expensive cable package because we feel like keeping it. I buy clothes a fair amount. My husband likes to buy comic books. We may not have a whole lot of savings, and we may not have a huge amount of extra $ once we're done accounting for all the stuff we buy - but that's not barely surviving!

Comment again after having two kids on your salary.

Do you expect PP to think a $3k mortgage is modest once s/he has 2 kids? We have two and I think a $3k mortgage would be ridiculous at a HHI of 200k, which is about how much we make. I wouldn't go above 2k/month for mortgage or rent. $1k for food & supplies is about what we spend but we're buying organic, local, seasonal food through a farm share. If we felt cash strapped, we could definitely cut that down - PP is right. If you spend 3k on a mortgage, another 3k on childcare, and 1k on food+diapers, you're cash strapped because you're living immodestly, not because you're poor.

My numbers never seem to add up when I read these threads. We make about $190K per year and take home $9,600 per month after taxes, health insurance and $1300 per month for 401K (FWIW I also get 5% matching and she gets like 12% of her salary bonus to her 401k). Seems like it would be easy to afford a 3K mortgage (PITI) on that amount of money.

Yeah, we've had a mortgage of just under 3k for several years now, including during a period when our HHI was ~180k. Big difference for us is childcare costs. One of the reasons I had my kids 5 years apart is because I knew having 2 in daycare would mean making sacrifices I didn't want to make. I highly recommend a large age gap; I honestly cannot see the downside. I think it's nice for WOHPs to have just one little one at a time--easier for everyone (including the kids).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all the replies here, but I'd say that your definition of "survival" is probably what's making you feel so strapped. $3k per month mortgage (I think you said) is not a bargain mortgage. $1100 per month for food and kids stuff (again, I think you said) does not sound like people who are trying to keep their spending down. I'm not saying it's easy to live in this area on incomes that are anywhere near normal - but to characterize your spending as barely surviving is really making it seem as if you live in a bubble.

You want to live a higher-income life than you comfortably have, is what it comes down to. And, look, I'm the same way - husb and I earn about $150k, have no kids, pay $600 per month toward student loans, $2k per month for rent. And it seems like we are just barely keeping our heads above water. But in reality that is bullshit. We order in food every time we want it. We keep an expensive cable package because we feel like keeping it. I buy clothes a fair amount. My husband likes to buy comic books. We may not have a whole lot of savings, and we may not have a huge amount of extra $ once we're done accounting for all the stuff we buy - but that's not barely surviving!

Comment again after having two kids on your salary.

Do you expect PP to think a $3k mortgage is modest once s/he has 2 kids? We have two and I think a $3k mortgage would be ridiculous at a HHI of 200k, which is about how much we make. I wouldn't go above 2k/month for mortgage or rent. $1k for food & supplies is about what we spend but we're buying organic, local, seasonal food through a farm share. If we felt cash strapped, we could definitely cut that down - PP is right. If you spend 3k on a mortgage, another 3k on childcare, and 1k on food+diapers, you're cash strapped because you're living immodestly, not because you're poor.

My numbers never seem to add up when I read these threads. We make about $190K per year and take home $9,600 per month after taxes, health insurance and $1300 per month for 401K (FWIW I also get 5% matching and she gets like 12% of her salary bonus to her 401k). Seems like it would be easy to afford a 3K mortgage (PITI) on that amount of money.

Sure it can work but without a lot of room for savings, 529s, incidentals. . . This is how ppl end up feeling strapped. 70% of their take home is going to the mortgage, childcare, and food.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all the replies here, but I'd say that your definition of "survival" is probably what's making you feel so strapped. $3k per month mortgage (I think you said) is not a bargain mortgage. $1100 per month for food and kids stuff (again, I think you said) does not sound like people who are trying to keep their spending down. I'm not saying it's easy to live in this area on incomes that are anywhere near normal - but to characterize your spending as barely surviving is really making it seem as if you live in a bubble.

You want to live a higher-income life than you comfortably have, is what it comes down to. And, look, I'm the same way - husb and I earn about $150k, have no kids, pay $600 per month toward student loans, $2k per month for rent. And it seems like we are just barely keeping our heads above water. But in reality that is bullshit. We order in food every time we want it. We keep an expensive cable package because we feel like keeping it. I buy clothes a fair amount. My husband likes to buy comic books. We may not have a whole lot of savings, and we may not have a huge amount of extra $ once we're done accounting for all the stuff we buy - but that's not barely surviving!

Comment again after having two kids on your salary.

Do you expect PP to think a $3k mortgage is modest once s/he has 2 kids? We have two and I think a $3k mortgage would be ridiculous at a HHI of 200k, which is about how much we make. I wouldn't go above 2k/month for mortgage or rent. $1k for food & supplies is about what we spend but we're buying organic, local, seasonal food through a farm share. If we felt cash strapped, we could definitely cut that down - PP is right. If you spend 3k on a mortgage, another 3k on childcare, and 1k on food+diapers, you're cash strapped because you're living immodestly, not because you're poor.

My numbers never seem to add up when I read these threads. We make about $190K per year and take home $9,600 per month after taxes, health insurance and $1300 per month for 401K (FWIW I also get 5% matching and she gets like 12% of her salary bonus to her 401k). Seems like it would be easy to afford a 3K mortgage (PITI) on that amount of money.

Yeah, we've had a mortgage of just under 3k for several years now, including during a period when our HHI was ~180k. Big difference for us is childcare costs. One of the reasons I had my kids 5 years apart is because I knew having 2 in daycare would mean making sacrifices I didn't want to make. I highly recommend a large age gap; I honestly cannot see the downside. I think it's nice for WOHPs to have just one little one at a time--easier for everyone (including the kids).

This is our approach too. So many of my friends/neighbors have asked when we're having a second and when I tell them that they all act incredulous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all the replies here, but I'd say that your definition of "survival" is probably what's making you feel so strapped. $3k per month mortgage (I think you said) is not a bargain mortgage. $1100 per month for food and kids stuff (again, I think you said) does not sound like people who are trying to keep their spending down. I'm not saying it's easy to live in this area on incomes that are anywhere near normal - but to characterize your spending as barely surviving is really making it seem as if you live in a bubble.

You want to live a higher-income life than you comfortably have, is what it comes down to. And, look, I'm the same way - husb and I earn about $150k, have no kids, pay $600 per month toward student loans, $2k per month for rent. And it seems like we are just barely keeping our heads above water. But in reality that is bullshit. We order in food every time we want it. We keep an expensive cable package because we feel like keeping it. I buy clothes a fair amount. My husband likes to buy comic books. We may not have a whole lot of savings, and we may not have a huge amount of extra $ once we're done accounting for all the stuff we buy - but that's not barely surviving!

Comment again after having two kids on your salary.

Do you expect PP to think a $3k mortgage is modest once s/he has 2 kids? We have two and I think a $3k mortgage would be ridiculous at a HHI of 200k, which is about how much we make. I wouldn't go above 2k/month for mortgage or rent. $1k for food & supplies is about what we spend but we're buying organic, local, seasonal food through a farm share. If we felt cash strapped, we could definitely cut that down - PP is right. If you spend 3k on a mortgage, another 3k on childcare, and 1k on food+diapers, you're cash strapped because you're living immodestly, not because you're poor.

This sounds good in theory but $3k mortgage is a $500k house, 20% down. $2k mortgage is 2/3 that. Many families will decide, quite reasonably, that its better to cut back elsewhere than live in a 2-br apartment or over an hour away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sure it can work but without a lot of room for savings, 529s, incidentals. . . This is how ppl end up feeling strapped. 70% of their take home is going to the mortgage, childcare, and food.

Child care can be up to 65% of take home pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all the replies here, but I'd say that your definition of "survival" is probably what's making you feel so strapped. $3k per month mortgage (I think you said) is not a bargain mortgage. $1100 per month for food and kids stuff (again, I think you said) does not sound like people who are trying to keep their spending down. I'm not saying it's easy to live in this area on incomes that are anywhere near normal - but to characterize your spending as barely surviving is really making it seem as if you live in a bubble.

You want to live a higher-income life than you comfortably have, is what it comes down to. And, look, I'm the same way - husb and I earn about $150k, have no kids, pay $600 per month toward student loans, $2k per month for rent. And it seems like we are just barely keeping our heads above water. But in reality that is bullshit. We order in food every time we want it. We keep an expensive cable package because we feel like keeping it. I buy clothes a fair amount. My husband likes to buy comic books. We may not have a whole lot of savings, and we may not have a huge amount of extra $ once we're done accounting for all the stuff we buy - but that's not barely surviving!

Comment again after having two kids on your salary.

Do you expect PP to think a $3k mortgage is modest once s/he has 2 kids? We have two and I think a $3k mortgage would be ridiculous at a HHI of 200k, which is about how much we make. I wouldn't go above 2k/month for mortgage or rent. $1k for food & supplies is about what we spend but we're buying organic, local, seasonal food through a farm share. If we felt cash strapped, we could definitely cut that down - PP is right. If you spend 3k on a mortgage, another 3k on childcare, and 1k on food+diapers, you're cash strapped because you're living immodestly, not because you're poor.

This sounds good in theory but $3k mortgage is a $500k house, 20% down. $2k mortgage is 2/3 that. Many families will decide, quite reasonably, that its better to cut back elsewhere than live in a 2-br apartment or over an hour away.

That's just not accurate. A 3k mortgage on a 30 year fixed would be a 480k loan, so a 600k house with 20% down (assuming 1100 insurance and 0.0109% property tax at a current 4.25 interest rate). Your number would be accurate for a 6.25% rate. That definitely gets you in a good neighborhood in the suburbs (vienna. Fairfax, Burke, parts of Arlington, etc). For a nicer home or a closer neighborhood it may mean saving for an additional year or two in order to keep the loan to the amount you are comfortable with or can afford on one income, but that is possible at the income level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all the replies here, but I'd say that your definition of "survival" is probably what's making you feel so strapped. $3k per month mortgage (I think you said) is not a bargain mortgage. $1100 per month for food and kids stuff (again, I think you said) does not sound like people who are trying to keep their spending down. I'm not saying it's easy to live in this area on incomes that are anywhere near normal - but to characterize your spending as barely surviving is really making it seem as if you live in a bubble.

You want to live a higher-income life than you comfortably have, is what it comes down to. And, look, I'm the same way - husb and I earn about $150k, have no kids, pay $600 per month toward student loans, $2k per month for rent. And it seems like we are just barely keeping our heads above water. But in reality that is bullshit. We order in food every time we want it. We keep an expensive cable package because we feel like keeping it. I buy clothes a fair amount. My husband likes to buy comic books. We may not have a whole lot of savings, and we may not have a huge amount of extra $ once we're done accounting for all the stuff we buy - but that's not barely surviving!

Comment again after having two kids on your salary.

PP here: and, look, this is sort of exactly the point. DC is expensive! You can't have everything you want here. That might mean not having 2 kids in daycare at the same time. Or if you want to do that, then you need a cheaper house. Or to spend less on food. Again, like I said before, just like OP, I would like to live a more luxurious, more comfortable life than I actually have. But to characterize this as not being able to SURVIVE is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is our approach too. So many of my friends/neighbors have asked when we're having a second and when I tell them that they all act incredulous.

I tried this approach, and it wound up not working out for me. Our first is almost 8 and we're secondary infertile. I would love to have had my second by now. We never meant for our daughter to be an only.

On the plus side, we had our first in our late 20's, so we aren't completely up against a clock. Our issues seem to be aftereffects of having our first (it really made a mess of my insides, apparently) making a second pregnancy more difficult to achieve, so it isn't "old eggs" or anything.

I think that is why people are incredulous - for any number of reasons, a lot of people around here don't have their kids until their mid-late 30's, and don't really have the luxury of time like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have said this on many threads, and I will say it again.

Being cash strapped because you spent all your $$ is NOT the same as being poor. You are making choices.

Very well said. I am shocked at how poorly people are managing their money. At far less money than this, we have accumulated wealth. And are very comfortable and secure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all the replies here, but I'd say that your definition of "survival" is probably what's making you feel so strapped. $3k per month mortgage (I think you said) is not a bargain mortgage. $1100 per month for food and kids stuff (again, I think you said) does not sound like people who are trying to keep their spending down. I'm not saying it's easy to live in this area on incomes that are anywhere near normal - but to characterize your spending as barely surviving is really making it seem as if you live in a bubble.

You want to live a higher-income life than you comfortably have, is what it comes down to. And, look, I'm the same way - husb and I earn about $150k, have no kids, pay $600 per month toward student loans, $2k per month for rent. And it seems like we are just barely keeping our heads above water. But in reality that is bullshit. We order in food every time we want it. We keep an expensive cable package because we feel like keeping it. I buy clothes a fair amount. My husband likes to buy comic books. We may not have a whole lot of savings, and we may not have a huge amount of extra $ once we're done accounting for all the stuff we buy - but that's not barely surviving!

Comment again after having two kids on your salary.

PP here: and, look, this is sort of exactly the point. DC is expensive! You can't have everything you want here. That might mean not having 2 kids in daycare at the same time. Or if you want to do that, then you need a cheaper house. Or to spend less on food. Again, like I said before, just like OP, I would like to live a more luxurious, more comfortable life than I actually have. But to characterize this as not being able to SURVIVE is stupid.

NP here. On less than 200K HHI, we have funded our retirement, heavily insured, Prepaid college tuition for both kids, 2 cars, a SFH in the suburbs. Our kids will have very little or no student loans.

So what did we not do?
1) Did not do private schools
2) Did not have student loans
3) Did not upgrade to a bigger house (ours is 3200 sq ft)
4) Do not lease new cars. We have fuel efficient cars
5) Do not have pets.
6) Brought the house at the BOTTOM of the market. Even with the housing crash we were up 50%. Very low mortgage rates.
7) No childcare cost now.
8) No one is in therapy
9) No divorce, alimony, child support
10) No fertility treatments
11) No spa days
12) Only some organic stuff is consumed - milk, eggs, meat, berries. Rest is regular produce.
13) Do not have consumer loan (except for cars and house - we are not in debt)
14) I do not buy designer clothes, bags, shoes etc. Most of my clothes come from Kohl's and Macy's.
15) I will not buy most things from a shop, if I can buy from Costco.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is our approach too. So many of my friends/neighbors have asked when we're having a second and when I tell them that they all act incredulous.

I tried this approach, and it wound up not working out for me. Our first is almost 8 and we're secondary infertile. I would love to have had my second by now. We never meant for our daughter to be an only.

On the plus side, we had our first in our late 20's, so we aren't completely up against a clock. Our issues seem to be aftereffects of having our first (it really made a mess of my insides, apparently) making a second pregnancy more difficult to achieve, so it isn't "old eggs" or anything.

I think that is why people are incredulous - for any number of reasons, a lot of people around here don't have their kids until their mid-late 30's, and don't really have the luxury of time like this.

A gap of 7 years between my 2 kids. DC1 wants to go into medicine. I have prepaid tuition for state school for both kids. I can right now afford to pay all the way up to residency for DC1, before I have to start paying for my 2nd. My kids will not have student loans if we can help it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sure it can work but without a lot of room for savings, 529s, incidentals. . . This is how ppl end up feeling strapped. 70% of their take home is going to the mortgage, childcare, and food.

Child care can be up to 65% of take home pay.

That's when it's time to quit work and SAH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sure it can work but without a lot of room for savings, 529s, incidentals. . . This is how ppl end up feeling strapped. 70% of their take home is going to the mortgage, childcare, and food.

Child care can be up to 65% of take home pay.

That's when it's time to quit work and SAH.

+ 100

The fact is that no one is assigning a dollar amount to the work SAHP do at home, the savings as well as cost of going to work - clothes, commuting, childcare etc.

But sometimes it is more economical if one partner stays at home and takes care of things at home and save money. If HHI goes up along with expenses - then it may not be worth it for one partner to WOH