Jews and Germans

[Anonymous]

It was a different time and Britain still had much of its colonial empire. Britain "ceded control" of Palestine to the UN because Pakestine had little economic value (no oil) and Britain did not want to absorb the Jewish refugees. Basically zbritain didn't care what happened to the Palestinians

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the Jews have done to everyone in the Middle East is unforgivable. They have destabilized an entire region in one big land grab

Jews didn't grab the land. While they did so later in Israel's history, initially, the UN gave the land to them.

The Nazis exterminated millions of Jews during WW II, but then when the war was over, many Jews who tried to go home were ordered to go away and/or murdered by members of their communities. As many of you know, this wasn't a new development. Jews have been discriminated against, and worse, for centuries. The UN's decision was motivated by a pragmatic understanding that Jews would continue to experience ill treatment because, despite vows and assertions to the contrary, the global community did not really learn the kind of meaningful lessons necessary to stop this abuse. The UN's decision to give Jews their own country represented an avoidant solution. As long as Jews had their own country, the global community didn't have to confront the root causes for the centuries-old discrimination. Sadly, the ongoing conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, and anti-Semitism's recent rise in Europe, suggests that avoidant solutions aren't always good solutions.

The land that was given to the Jews was taken from the Palestinians. The land the Israelis continue to take is from the Palestinians. That UN sanctioned land grab created the destabilization of the Middle East and has resulted in the terrorism of today. You know like the Je wish terrorists that forced the UN to take Palestinian land for Israel The avoidant solution may have had a better chance of success if the Israelis had not decided to expand their original territories. You know the way the Germans did in the 1939s and 1940s.

Each of Israel's major "land grabs" have occurred under provocation. They were attacked and were legitimately defending themselves. Very different from what went on in Germany in the 30s. It's a very biased and prejudiced reading to say otherwise. Now the current problems with the settlements...I would tend to agree that those fall more under the category of "land grab." However, the expansion of these communities often follow terrorist attacks on the part of Palestinians so it's hard to say that they're *completely* unjustified. They definitely don't help the situation though, I agree with that.

As far as the creation of Israel, I don't know I'm kind of torn. I think it's too easy with hindsight to say "well they should have known this would happen." Is it really so unreasonable to expect people of different religions or ethnicities to be able to live together peacefully in the modern world? I mean, with hindsight, it obviously is but that is a very unfortunate conclusion to have to draw.

Why didn't the Jews originally have their own homeland? How did the UN decide to give that particular spot to them? Were the Palestinians okay with it when the UN made the decision?

The original Jewish state was conquered by the Romans and after a failed uprising, the Jews were dispersed (thus beginning the Diaspora). Palestine is a region that was formerly ruled by the Ottoman Empire for centuries which crumbled after their defeat in WWI. It then became a British protectorate. Britain ceded control to the UN in order to form the modern state of Israel after the war. No the Arabs were not happy about it but the world community (well really the West) did not believe they should have much of a say in the matter because they did not have a sovereign government.

Thanks for the explanation. Was the original Jewish state in the Palestine region?

yes, more or less. Capital city in Jerusalem.

This seems a little bit like taking away the property of descendants of a bona fide purchaser and giving it back to descendants of the original owners who either abandoned the property or had it stolen from them. Why would the UN think this would resolve and not create more problems?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Deutschland, Deutschland über alles....

Frightening.

You know that's not actually Germany's national anthem, right?

[Anonymous]

An honest, serious question.

For those that criticize the Zionists for what may have happened to Palestinians when Israel became a state, what do you think about what American settlers did to the native american people? Or for that matter, the current state of many native american people?

Life, and history, is not black and white. But bigotry is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This seems a little bit like taking away the property of descendants of a bona fide purchaser and giving it back to descendants of the original owners who either abandoned the property or had it stolen from them. Why would the UN think this would resolve and not create more problems?

PP, there are about 8 billion books on this subject. If you want to know more, I suggest that you go and read some of them. It will be substantially more enlightening than asking questions of anonymous posters on DCUM Off-Topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An honest, serious question.

For those that criticize the Zionists for what may have happened to Palestinians when Israel became a state, what do you think about what American settlers did to the native american people? Or for that matter, the current state of many native american people?

Life, and history, is not black and white. But bigotry is.

Umm yea. So I think it's fucked up all around

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a German, I am offended when a Jew says they won't drive a German car or whatever - IF they say so in a manner that hints that I have something to do with "it". That is, if they group us all together.

My family happens to have a history of helping Jews during the war. It is an amazing and historically significant story, but not my story to tell.

Don't come barking up my tree about how terrible you think my people are; especially when you will never know the real story.

They built the ovens. Not sure what more justification they would need to insinuate with you when they say they won't by a German car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I blame the Romans.

What did they ever do for us?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a German, I am offended when a Jew says they won't drive a German car or whatever - IF they say so in a manner that hints that I have something to do with "it". That is, if they group us all together.

My family happens to have a history of helping Jews during the war. It is an amazing and historically significant story, but not my story to tell.

Don't come barking up my tree about how terrible you think my people are; especially when you will never know the real story.

I'm a Jew and I love German cars! I used to be anti German cars because I did not want to be associated with the types of people who drove them (stuck up, rich people who think they own the road). Then I drove one. I can't go back.

I would love to hear the the story of your family. My Great-Grandfather was one of the organizers of the exodus. I two cousins who are holocaust survivors. One of them survived because of someone helping to hide them. It sucks when people make blanket generalizations. It shows just how ignorant people can be.

Do you like the amazing eyes Germans have?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a German, I am offended when a Jew says they won't drive a German car or whatever - IF they say so in a manner that hints that I have something to do with "it". That is, if they group us all together.

My family happens to have a history of helping Jews during the war. It is an amazing and historically significant story, but not my story to tell.

Don't come barking up my tree about how terrible you think my people are; especially when you will never know the real story.

They built the ovens. Not sure what more justification they would need to insinuate with you when they say they won't by a German car.

I cannot imagine what the planning meetings between the Nazis and MB were like when they were building the ovens to spec - what they were to be used for, how large, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Deutschland, Deutschland über alles....

Frightening.

You know that's not actually Germany's national anthem, right?

Well, you could be a little more intellectually honest and say that after WWII they no longer sing that verse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An honest, serious question.

For those that criticize the Zionists for what may have happened to Palestinians when Israel became a state, what do you think about what American settlers did to the native american people? Or for that matter, the current state of many native american people?

Life, and history, is not black and white. But bigotry is.

The Palestinians and Native Americans share the common problem of occupying land more powerful people wanted. The current Palestinians suffer the same economic disadvantages as Native Americans except those tribes with casinos or cigarette stored. Both got screwed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Deutschland, Deutschland über alles....

Frightening.

You know that's not actually Germany's national anthem, right?

God bless America isn't ours, but we hear it a shitload.

Point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Deutschland, Deutschland über alles....

Frightening.

You know that's not actually Germany's national anthem, right?

Well, you could be a little more intellectually honest and say that after WWII they no longer sing that verse.

They no longer sing "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles". What's intellectually dishonest about that? I suppose that you could say that the tune is "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles", but you could also say that the tune is "Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser," and you could also say that the Yale song is "Die Wacht am Rhein".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Deutschland, Deutschland über alles....

Frightening.

You know that's not actually Germany's national anthem, right?

God bless America isn't ours, but we hear it a shitload.

Point?

Ask the next German you see how often you hear people singing "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles" in Germany on official or patriotic occasions.