I’m a recruiter AMA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Where I differ from the OP is about thank you notes following interviews. Send them. Do you want the job? If so, do everything in your power to stand out among other candidates.

Does your company send out thank-you letters to candidates? Do you want those candidates to work for you? If so, then you should do everything to stand out among other companies.

Snark noted, but actually, we do. The ultimate thank you is the offer letter, I guess. but for those who don't get that far we send an update to inform them and I we always thank candidates for the time they've invested in our process and the opportunity to get to know them.

We stand out among other companies in terms of our industry reputation and employer brand and that is apparent before an interview process. Apply, or don't, based on your sentiment about us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Calibri, Arial, a clean sans serif font works really well

Why would sans-serif be preferable? It is generally considered to be harder to read for body text, and it also looks less serious than serif type. And Arial is sort of an abomination.

😖😖😖 hate Arial with a passion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, are you annoyed that your particular AMA has been hijacked by other all-knowing HR experts?

Lol not at all. The more the merrier if it helps DCUM land their next job!

And this is the spirit in which I added some additional perspective. OP is doing great. Some of y'all are intent on being mad. Neither one of us can help with that, but I like to share information that helps to demystify the process for people that are earnestly looking for new opportunities. Those candidates deserve to find something great for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Excluding CEO/President level (think VP, senior manager, manager types) at what point does a candidate's age start working against them?

Good question. It depends on the role and the company to be honest. I’ve been in old school industries (think commercial and retail banking) where people stay a looonnng time and someone who is say 45 is about the midpoint of the workforce distribution. I’ve also worked in digital marketing where the average age was like 30. And then in F500 the average age might be in the middle say 38, but by 50 the company is packaging people out.

I will say this
There is no reason to ever put more than 15 years of experience on your resume
There is no reason to put your college graduation date. (1982??!)
There is no reason to still be using Yahoo email. SMH
There is no reason to use Times Roman Font
— when I see a combination of these things on a resume I start thinking ‘This PERSON Has Aged Himself/Herself With This Resume - they are demonstrating by this document that they are not adaptable, will not change.

I see some major age discrimination here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When a recruiter closes with "if anyone comes to mind that you think would be a fit...."

Are they really looking for me to apply and don't want to appear to be directly saying that?

TIA

That sounds like the end of an external recruiter convo - but regardless - yeah, not a good sign.

I don't think you're understanding. That was the initial email. Why go thru the effort to track me down just to hope I'd find them a lead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When a recruiter closes with "if anyone comes to mind that you think would be a fit...."

Are they really looking for me to apply and don't want to appear to be directly saying that?

TIA

That sounds like the end of an external recruiter convo - but regardless - yeah, not a good sign.

I don't think you're understanding. That was the initial email. Why go thru the effort to track me down just to hope I'd find them a lead.

I have gotten e-mails like that before and passed them along to friends that I thought would be interested (I wasnt for geographic reasons). I think it is both, if you are interested apply and if not pas it along if you know anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Calibri, Arial, a clean sans serif font works really well

Why would sans-serif be preferable? It is generally considered to be harder to read for body text, and it also looks less serious than serif type. And Arial is sort of an abomination.

😖😖😖 hate Arial with a passion

No snark, but getting a job is not about what we like or like to do, but about what we need to do to get a job.

[Anonymous]

I’m an early 50s employee, one level down from VP at my Fortune 500. I’ve had 4-5 roles in my 20 years at this company, progressing steadily every 2-3 years.

I also had roles at 2-3 other well known, Fortune 500 companies, but that was 20+ years ago.

If I limit my resume to only 10-15 years, I look much more limited in terms of my work experience.

What do you recommend for someone like me who looks like a dinosaur for staying at a company for so long? I feel like I’m one layoff away from a long stint of unemployment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m an early 50s employee, one level down from VP at my Fortune 500. I’ve had 4-5 roles in my 20 years at this company, progressing steadily every 2-3 years.

I also had roles at 2-3 other well known, Fortune 500 companies, but that was 20+ years ago.

If I limit my resume to only 10-15 years, I look much more limited in terms of my work experience.

What do you recommend for someone like me who looks like a dinosaur for staying at a company for so long? I feel like I’m one layoff away from a long stint of unemployment.

Your progression every 3 years probably looks amazing. The title changes are really good and I’m guessing you’ve had different bosses also. So the question of ‘why did this person stay at xyz so long’ is answered: bc there were varied opportunities inside the company and they picked her/him for them. (Ie S/he was talented enough to be promoted - many times).

For your resume, I would have a section Previous Roles or Other Experience. Simply List the
Title, Company, Years
Title, Company, Years
Title, Company, Years
(follow the format you used in the earlier section)
I don’t need more job tasks, duties, outcomes explained in these. I will know what those jobs are by title. In this section I want to see that you did work elsewhere - that you have seen other work cultures. So keep it Brief and decide when to truncate it.

Somewhere above I noted that 50 is old in some F500 so if you are sensing it it is probably true. This is advice you didn’t ask but I will give it anyway. You are unlikely to land a VP job at a F500. There are already VP level candidates in our application funnel. A Director or Sr Director role yes, you’d be an easy pick. But also look at smaller companies with say 1-5k employees. They WANT your expertise and there are many with your profile in them in the executive levels. You have to be willing to work in the chaos as opposed to a well oiled machine though so it is a culture change for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an early 50s employee, one level down from VP at my Fortune 500. I’ve had 4-5 roles in my 20 years at this company, progressing steadily every 2-3 years.

I also had roles at 2-3 other well known, Fortune 500 companies, but that was 20+ years ago.

If I limit my resume to only 10-15 years, I look much more limited in terms of my work experience.

What do you recommend for someone like me who looks like a dinosaur for staying at a company for so long? I feel like I’m one layoff away from a long stint of unemployment.

Your progression every 3 years probably looks amazing. The title changes are really good and I’m guessing you’ve had different bosses also. So the question of ‘why did this person stay at xyz so long’ is answered: bc there were varied opportunities inside the company and they picked her/him for them. (Ie S/he was talented enough to be promoted - many times).

For your resume, I would have a section Previous Roles or Other Experience. Simply List the
Title, Company, Years
Title, Company, Years
Title, Company, Years
(follow the format you used in the earlier section)
I don’t need more job tasks, duties, outcomes explained in these. I will know what those jobs are by title. In this section I want to see that you did work elsewhere - that you have seen other work cultures. So keep it Brief and decide when to truncate it.

Somewhere above I noted that 50 is old in some F500 so if you are sensing it it is probably true. This is advice you didn’t ask but I will give it anyway. You are unlikely to land a VP job at a F500. There are already VP level candidates in our application funnel. A Director or Sr Director role yes, you’d be an easy pick. But also look at smaller companies with say 1-5k employees. They WANT your expertise and there are many with your profile in them in the executive levels. You have to be willing to work in the chaos as opposed to a well oiled machine though so it is a culture change for sure.

This is such excellent advice. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

I am an external recruiter ( headhunter ). The OP’s answers are outstanding!! Compliments. Please do not discard or discount anything she has said. Jobseekers are getting priceless info.

Also please know:
*Recruiters have a special, expensive LinkedIn option called LinkedIn Recruiter, with tons of functionality.
*If you are a good source for a recruiter ( if you have suggested a candidate right for a role she is filling ), you now have an ally and you won’t be ignored/forgotten.

[Anonymous]

How much should i say/not say to a recruiter when my real reason for a break between jobs is splitting with my spouse and their family business?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much should i say/not say to a recruiter when my real reason for a break between jobs is splitting with my spouse and their family business?

None of it. That’s TMI. You would make me wonder about your emotional and mental state, whether you are stable (in all the ways stable can be interpreted). Never make me or any recruiter Wonderrrr about you. I want to be CERTAIN about you when I go talk to the hiring manager. That kind of info is not for an interview. After you get hired, you can chirp all you want with your teammates.

Just say I took time off to assess my options and consider what I really wanted to do next in my career. I’ve decided that it’s X which is why I applied for your job.

[Anonymous]

When it comes to a position that will manage a small team of direct reports in a medium-sized public company, what is your view of an otherwise-qualified candidate who has not had direct reports, but for 10+ years was the leader of cross-functional teams for very large, C-suite facing deals at an F100? Assume the candidate has excellent references both from his/her manager and from junior personnel that the candidate coached and mentored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an early 50s employee, one level down from VP at my Fortune 500. I’ve had 4-5 roles in my 20 years at this company, progressing steadily every 2-3 years.

I also had roles at 2-3 other well known, Fortune 500 companies, but that was 20+ years ago.

If I limit my resume to only 10-15 years, I look much more limited in terms of my work experience.

What do you recommend for someone like me who looks like a dinosaur for staying at a company for so long? I feel like I’m one layoff away from a long stint of unemployment.

Your progression every 3 years probably looks amazing. The title changes are really good and I’m guessing you’ve had different bosses also. So the question of ‘why did this person stay at xyz so long’ is answered: bc there were varied opportunities inside the company and they picked her/him for them. (Ie S/he was talented enough to be promoted - many times).

For your resume, I would have a section Previous Roles or Other Experience. Simply List the
Title, Company, Years
Title, Company, Years
Title, Company, Years
(follow the format you used in the earlier section)
I don’t need more job tasks, duties, outcomes explained in these. I will know what those jobs are by title. In this section I want to see that you did work elsewhere - that you have seen other work cultures. So keep it Brief and decide when to truncate it.

Somewhere above I noted that 50 is old in some F500 so if you are sensing it it is probably true. This is advice you didn’t ask but I will give it anyway. You are unlikely to land a VP job at a F500. There are already VP level candidates in our application funnel. A Director or Sr Director role yes, you’d be an easy pick. But also look at smaller companies with say 1-5k employees. They WANT your expertise and there are many with your profile in them in the executive levels. You have to be willing to work in the chaos as opposed to a well oiled machine though so it is a culture change for sure.

PP. So basically age discrimination. Brutal truth. If you aren't at X-level in your F500 career, you're not going to level up at another. The big corporations accept the value judgments placed on you by the talent-grinding-up machine at the place you came from.

I am watching some humorous things happen at my big company. They laid off an already pension-eligible well-known professional with 39 years of service. And his complaint about their inhumanity went viral at a national level. 1 year later, his carefully-developed skills are available to companies that never could have afforded to develop them internally. I'm also watching our cross-town rival keep hiring the major players from real VP (CEO direct report) on down that my company keeps voting off the island. Let's just say that now they know which of the company's moves were luck, crazy, or crazy like a fox. This was a lifetime loyalty kind of industry but management decided that had no value. We will see how the FAFO'ing ends up.