MacArthur feeder panic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Anecdotal but my good friend’s kid in VA took advanced math, and he is killing it at Virginia tech as an engineering major. Straight A’s.

Oh and no he didn’t go to TJ either. Just good pyramid in McLean

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet their senior class has gotten into phenomenal colleges/universities. Yep. Must be a terrible place. Full panic. 🙄

No kids at the school but I just looked up the SAT average and it’s abysmal at 964. There is a disconnect here with what you are saying.

What you call a “disconnect” is the simple statistical fact that the average does not define the upper bound of a distribution.

The SAT average at JR is 1083, and everyone knows the top kids there have high scores and attend great colleges. MacArthur is the same.

There is not many kids at the upper bound of distribution if the average is that low.

A few outliers does not define a good school with challenge and rigor.

The average scores will go up do to an increased number of kids on the high end.

There are more high-performing kids in the current 9th grade because that's the first class of Hardy kids to no longer have j-R as an option.

With that said, if DCPS actually wanted to create a successful rather than middling school, they would have given no Hardy students to the option to choose J-R.

Have you looked at CAPE scores? Not a lot of high performing kids coming from Hardy esp in math. Deal was the one contributing many mire high performing kids, the majority, when JR was the only feeder for both schools.

Also only about 1/2 Hardy families continued on to MA thus year. I would not consider that a lot of buy in. Scores will not miraculously go way up with such a small sample.

Hardy and Deal both have >95% of students meeting or exceeding on Geometry CAPE. Both the highest in the city.

For Algebra I, Deal had 92% meeting or exceeding, Hardy 84%. Only other school with higher rate was MacFarland at 86%.

We are talking high performing so look at exceeding only and Geometry or higher. Also take that and actually get absolute numbers of kids.

Meeting standards on coursework two years years ahead of grade level is not high performing? There are very few schools anywhere that are going to meet your standards then.

In any case, Deal had 63% level 5 on Geometry, Hardy 28%. Both the highest in the city.

Example of low expectations. Algebra 1 is the standard track and anything below that is remedial for any college bound kid. Geometry is just 1 year ahead. Algebra 2 in 8th is 2 years ahead.

People in the burbs would laugh in your face if you think Algebra 1 in 8th is advance.

So Deal has not only more than 2 times the number of high performing kids in percentages but also more than 2 times the absolute number of kids. Thanks for proving my point that majority of high performing kids going to JR in the past was from Deal.

Enjoy the suburbs I guess.

You should if you have a mathy and Stem kid because geometry and Algebra 2 are a standard part of the curriculum. Algebra 2 will get you to AP Calculus by 10th and you can go 2 years beyond that. TJ is the only school which offers even more advancement and if your kid is gifted, that is where they should go.

It’s shocking that the majority of DCPS middle schools don’t even offer Geometry. The few that do that is the highest. No Algebra 2. But I guess if 95% of the kids are below grade level in math, there is no point because you don’t have any kids who can do it.

Social promotion and low expectations is a vicious cycle that begets more.

Did Deal stop offering Algebra 2? My kid took it in 8th grade.

Many advanced math kids in DCPS take DE math classes at GW et al. Mine took two. I assume MCPS has a similar offering.

No kids at Deal but I heard that you have to squeeze in a math course in the summer to get to Cal in 10th. Doesn’t JR offer at least 2 years of advance math past Cal?

You don't if they still offer Algebra 2 (again, they did as of three years ago).

JR offers AP Stat and you can take AP CS A (as well as AP Physics C)...but those aren't really post-Calc BC. Again, you can take Dual Enrollment courses at GW and other local colleges and basically take whatever you want...multivariable, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, et al.

Wow, I can’t believe JR doesn’t offer Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, or Multivariable Calculus

The math offerings are just so subpar and behind in DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet their senior class has gotten into phenomenal colleges/universities. Yep. Must be a terrible place. Full panic. 🙄

No kids at the school but I just looked up the SAT average and it’s abysmal at 964. There is a disconnect here with what you are saying.

What you call a “disconnect” is the simple statistical fact that the average does not define the upper bound of a distribution.

The SAT average at JR is 1083, and everyone knows the top kids there have high scores and attend great colleges. MacArthur is the same.

There is not many kids at the upper bound of distribution if the average is that low.

A few outliers does not define a good school with challenge and rigor.

The average scores will go up do to an increased number of kids on the high end.

There are more high-performing kids in the current 9th grade because that's the first class of Hardy kids to no longer have j-R as an option.

With that said, if DCPS actually wanted to create a successful rather than middling school, they would have given no Hardy students to the option to choose J-R.

Have you looked at CAPE scores? Not a lot of high performing kids coming from Hardy esp in math. Deal was the one contributing many mire high performing kids, the majority, when JR was the only feeder for both schools.

Also only about 1/2 Hardy families continued on to MA thus year. I would not consider that a lot of buy in. Scores will not miraculously go way up with such a small sample.

Hardy and Deal both have >95% of students meeting or exceeding on Geometry CAPE. Both the highest in the city.

For Algebra I, Deal had 92% meeting or exceeding, Hardy 84%. Only other school with higher rate was MacFarland at 86%.

We are talking high performing so look at exceeding only and Geometry or higher. Also take that and actually get absolute numbers of kids.

Meeting standards on coursework two years years ahead of grade level is not high performing? There are very few schools anywhere that are going to meet your standards then.

In any case, Deal had 63% level 5 on Geometry, Hardy 28%. Both the highest in the city.

Example of low expectations. Algebra 1 is the standard track and anything below that is remedial for any college bound kid. Geometry is just 1 year ahead. Algebra 2 in 8th is 2 years ahead.

People in the burbs would laugh in your face if you think Algebra 1 in 8th is advance.

So Deal has not only more than 2 times the number of high performing kids in percentages but also more than 2 times the absolute number of kids. Thanks for proving my point that majority of high performing kids going to JR in the past was from Deal.

Enjoy the suburbs I guess.

You should if you have a mathy and Stem kid because geometry and Algebra 2 are a standard part of the curriculum. Algebra 2 will get you to AP Calculus by 10th and you can go 2 years beyond that. TJ is the only school which offers even more advancement and if your kid is gifted, that is where they should go.

It’s shocking that the majority of DCPS middle schools don’t even offer Geometry. The few that do that is the highest. No Algebra 2. But I guess if 95% of the kids are below grade level in math, there is no point because you don’t have any kids who can do it.

Social promotion and low expectations is a vicious cycle that begets more.

Did Deal stop offering Algebra 2? My kid took it in 8th grade.

Many advanced math kids in DCPS take DE math classes at GW et al. Mine took two. I assume MCPS has a similar offering.

No kids at Deal but I heard that you have to squeeze in a math course in the summer to get to Cal in 10th. Doesn’t JR offer at least 2 years of advance math past Cal?

You don't if they still offer Algebra 2 (again, they did as of three years ago).

JR offers AP Stat and you can take AP CS A (as well as AP Physics C)...but those aren't really post-Calc BC. Again, you can take Dual Enrollment courses at GW and other local colleges and basically take whatever you want...multivariable, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, et al.

Wow, I can’t believe JR doesn’t offer Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, or Multivariable Calculus

The math offerings are just so subpar and behind in DCPS.

Why is that so concerning to you if DCPS makes it easy to take those classes at GW or Georgetown and you are taught by a COLLEGE professor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet their senior class has gotten into phenomenal colleges/universities. Yep. Must be a terrible place. Full panic. 🙄

No kids at the school but I just looked up the SAT average and it’s abysmal at 964. There is a disconnect here with what you are saying.

What you call a “disconnect” is the simple statistical fact that the average does not define the upper bound of a distribution.

The SAT average at JR is 1083, and everyone knows the top kids there have high scores and attend great colleges. MacArthur is the same.

There is not many kids at the upper bound of distribution if the average is that low.

A few outliers does not define a good school with challenge and rigor.

The average scores will go up do to an increased number of kids on the high end.

There are more high-performing kids in the current 9th grade because that's the first class of Hardy kids to no longer have j-R as an option.

With that said, if DCPS actually wanted to create a successful rather than middling school, they would have given no Hardy students to the option to choose J-R.

Have you looked at CAPE scores? Not a lot of high performing kids coming from Hardy esp in math. Deal was the one contributing many mire high performing kids, the majority, when JR was the only feeder for both schools.

Also only about 1/2 Hardy families continued on to MA thus year. I would not consider that a lot of buy in. Scores will not miraculously go way up with such a small sample.

Hardy and Deal both have >95% of students meeting or exceeding on Geometry CAPE. Both the highest in the city.

For Algebra I, Deal had 92% meeting or exceeding, Hardy 84%. Only other school with higher rate was MacFarland at 86%.

We are talking high performing so look at exceeding only and Geometry or higher. Also take that and actually get absolute numbers of kids.

Meeting standards on coursework two years years ahead of grade level is not high performing? There are very few schools anywhere that are going to meet your standards then.

In any case, Deal had 63% level 5 on Geometry, Hardy 28%. Both the highest in the city.

Example of low expectations. Algebra 1 is the standard track and anything below that is remedial for any college bound kid. Geometry is just 1 year ahead. Algebra 2 in 8th is 2 years ahead.

People in the burbs would laugh in your face if you think Algebra 1 in 8th is advance.

So Deal has not only more than 2 times the number of high performing kids in percentages but also more than 2 times the absolute number of kids. Thanks for proving my point that majority of high performing kids going to JR in the past was from Deal.

Enjoy the suburbs I guess.

You should if you have a mathy and Stem kid because geometry and Algebra 2 are a standard part of the curriculum. Algebra 2 will get you to AP Calculus by 10th and you can go 2 years beyond that. TJ is the only school which offers even more advancement and if your kid is gifted, that is where they should go.

It’s shocking that the majority of DCPS middle schools don’t even offer Geometry. The few that do that is the highest. No Algebra 2. But I guess if 95% of the kids are below grade level in math, there is no point because you don’t have any kids who can do it.

Social promotion and low expectations is a vicious cycle that begets more.

Did Deal stop offering Algebra 2? My kid took it in 8th grade.

Many advanced math kids in DCPS take DE math classes at GW et al. Mine took two. I assume MCPS has a similar offering.

No kids at Deal but I heard that you have to squeeze in a math course in the summer to get to Cal in 10th. Doesn’t JR offer at least 2 years of advance math past Cal?

You don't if they still offer Algebra 2 (again, they did as of three years ago).

JR offers AP Stat and you can take AP CS A (as well as AP Physics C)...but those aren't really post-Calc BC. Again, you can take Dual Enrollment courses at GW and other local colleges and basically take whatever you want...multivariable, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, et al.

Wow, I can’t believe JR doesn’t offer Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, or Multivariable Calculus

The math offerings are just so subpar and behind in DCPS.

Why is that so concerning to you if DCPS makes it easy to take those classes at GW or Georgetown and you are taught by a COLLEGE professor?

First, it is not easy to try to coordinate your high school schedule to fit in the class. What if you can’t fit it in? So kids don’t get more math and challenge after just Calculus??

Second, you also have to travel and get there and back to your school in time and if you are taking public transportation, lots of variables that could go wrong.

Third, it is isolating when you are taking a class by yourself and not at school with classmates.

But most importantly, math is the only subject that DCPS tracks and they can’t even offer anything past Calculus at what is their best neighborhood high school in 2026? Really? When these offerings are standard just across our border?

If you don’t think that is concerning, I don’t know what to say. What else is so lacking then in the other subjects that don’t track? Is this a sign of a more systemic problem in the system? I would argue most likely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet their senior class has gotten into phenomenal colleges/universities. Yep. Must be a terrible place. Full panic. 🙄

No kids at the school but I just looked up the SAT average and it’s abysmal at 964. There is a disconnect here with what you are saying.

What you call a “disconnect” is the simple statistical fact that the average does not define the upper bound of a distribution.

The SAT average at JR is 1083, and everyone knows the top kids there have high scores and attend great colleges. MacArthur is the same.

There is not many kids at the upper bound of distribution if the average is that low.

A few outliers does not define a good school with challenge and rigor.

The average scores will go up do to an increased number of kids on the high end.

There are more high-performing kids in the current 9th grade because that's the first class of Hardy kids to no longer have j-R as an option.

With that said, if DCPS actually wanted to create a successful rather than middling school, they would have given no Hardy students to the option to choose J-R.

Have you looked at CAPE scores? Not a lot of high performing kids coming from Hardy esp in math. Deal was the one contributing many mire high performing kids, the majority, when JR was the only feeder for both schools.

Also only about 1/2 Hardy families continued on to MA thus year. I would not consider that a lot of buy in. Scores will not miraculously go way up with such a small sample.

Hardy and Deal both have >95% of students meeting or exceeding on Geometry CAPE. Both the highest in the city.

For Algebra I, Deal had 92% meeting or exceeding, Hardy 84%. Only other school with higher rate was MacFarland at 86%.

We are talking high performing so look at exceeding only and Geometry or higher. Also take that and actually get absolute numbers of kids.

Meeting standards on coursework two years years ahead of grade level is not high performing? There are very few schools anywhere that are going to meet your standards then.

In any case, Deal had 63% level 5 on Geometry, Hardy 28%. Both the highest in the city.

Example of low expectations. Algebra 1 is the standard track and anything below that is remedial for any college bound kid. Geometry is just 1 year ahead. Algebra 2 in 8th is 2 years ahead.

People in the burbs would laugh in your face if you think Algebra 1 in 8th is advance.

So Deal has not only more than 2 times the number of high performing kids in percentages but also more than 2 times the absolute number of kids. Thanks for proving my point that majority of high performing kids going to JR in the past was from Deal.

Enjoy the suburbs I guess.

You should if you have a mathy and Stem kid because geometry and Algebra 2 are a standard part of the curriculum. Algebra 2 will get you to AP Calculus by 10th and you can go 2 years beyond that. TJ is the only school which offers even more advancement and if your kid is gifted, that is where they should go.

It’s shocking that the majority of DCPS middle schools don’t even offer Geometry. The few that do that is the highest. No Algebra 2. But I guess if 95% of the kids are below grade level in math, there is no point because you don’t have any kids who can do it.

Social promotion and low expectations is a vicious cycle that begets more.

Did Deal stop offering Algebra 2? My kid took it in 8th grade.

Many advanced math kids in DCPS take DE math classes at GW et al. Mine took two. I assume MCPS has a similar offering.

No kids at Deal but I heard that you have to squeeze in a math course in the summer to get to Cal in 10th. Doesn’t JR offer at least 2 years of advance math past Cal?

You don't if they still offer Algebra 2 (again, they did as of three years ago).

JR offers AP Stat and you can take AP CS A (as well as AP Physics C)...but those aren't really post-Calc BC. Again, you can take Dual Enrollment courses at GW and other local colleges and basically take whatever you want...multivariable, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, et al.

Wow, I can’t believe JR doesn’t offer Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, or Multivariable Calculus

The math offerings are just so subpar and behind in DCPS.

Why is that so concerning to you if DCPS makes it easy to take those classes at GW or Georgetown and you are taught by a COLLEGE professor?

First, it is not easy to try to coordinate your high school schedule to fit in the class. What if you can’t fit it in? So kids don’t get more math and challenge after just Calculus??

Second, you also have to travel and get there and back to your school in time and if you are taking public transportation, lots of variables that could go wrong.

Third, it is isolating when you are taking a class by yourself and not at school with classmates.

But most importantly, math is the only subject that DCPS tracks and they can’t even offer anything past Calculus at what is their best neighborhood high school in 2026? Really? When these offerings are standard just across our border?

If you don’t think that is concerning, I don’t know what to say. What else is so lacking then in the other subjects that don’t track? Is this a sign of a more systemic problem in the system? I would argue most likely.

Those offerings aren't standard in MoCo...I see only multivariable offered at BCC, nothing at Whitman...I am not going to check every school. Those schools promote DE at Montgomery College as ways to take other classes if you want.

They are offered at Blair and Poolesville Magnet and TJ, but not really anywhere else.

Plenty of kids from JR and other schools take DE classes all the time. It's really that not difficult because most of those students already finished their HS requirements and usually have a number of free periods for DE.

Furthermore, maybe 10-15 kids in the entire school would be taking math past Calc BC, so you can only offer one of the advanced math classes...certainly not all three.

Your faux concern makes no sense...at all. My kid had zero issues taking Multivariable and Linear Algebra at GW and loved taking it in an actual college classroom with an actual college professor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet their senior class has gotten into phenomenal colleges/universities. Yep. Must be a terrible place. Full panic. 🙄

No kids at the school but I just looked up the SAT average and it’s abysmal at 964. There is a disconnect here with what you are saying.

What you call a “disconnect” is the simple statistical fact that the average does not define the upper bound of a distribution.

The SAT average at JR is 1083, and everyone knows the top kids there have high scores and attend great colleges. MacArthur is the same.

There is not many kids at the upper bound of distribution if the average is that low.

A few outliers does not define a good school with challenge and rigor.

The average scores will go up do to an increased number of kids on the high end.

There are more high-performing kids in the current 9th grade because that's the first class of Hardy kids to no longer have j-R as an option.

With that said, if DCPS actually wanted to create a successful rather than middling school, they would have given no Hardy students to the option to choose J-R.

Have you looked at CAPE scores? Not a lot of high performing kids coming from Hardy esp in math. Deal was the one contributing many mire high performing kids, the majority, when JR was the only feeder for both schools.

Also only about 1/2 Hardy families continued on to MA thus year. I would not consider that a lot of buy in. Scores will not miraculously go way up with such a small sample.

Hardy and Deal both have >95% of students meeting or exceeding on Geometry CAPE. Both the highest in the city.

For Algebra I, Deal had 92% meeting or exceeding, Hardy 84%. Only other school with higher rate was MacFarland at 86%.

We are talking high performing so look at exceeding only and Geometry or higher. Also take that and actually get absolute numbers of kids.

Meeting standards on coursework two years years ahead of grade level is not high performing? There are very few schools anywhere that are going to meet your standards then.

In any case, Deal had 63% level 5 on Geometry, Hardy 28%. Both the highest in the city.

Example of low expectations. Algebra 1 is the standard track and anything below that is remedial for any college bound kid. Geometry is just 1 year ahead. Algebra 2 in 8th is 2 years ahead.

People in the burbs would laugh in your face if you think Algebra 1 in 8th is advance.

So Deal has not only more than 2 times the number of high performing kids in percentages but also more than 2 times the absolute number of kids. Thanks for proving my point that majority of high performing kids going to JR in the past was from Deal.

Enjoy the suburbs I guess.

You should if you have a mathy and Stem kid because geometry and Algebra 2 are a standard part of the curriculum. Algebra 2 will get you to AP Calculus by 10th and you can go 2 years beyond that. TJ is the only school which offers even more advancement and if your kid is gifted, that is where they should go.

It’s shocking that the majority of DCPS middle schools don’t even offer Geometry. The few that do that is the highest. No Algebra 2. But I guess if 95% of the kids are below grade level in math, there is no point because you don’t have any kids who can do it.

Social promotion and low expectations is a vicious cycle that begets more.

Did Deal stop offering Algebra 2? My kid took it in 8th grade.

Many advanced math kids in DCPS take DE math classes at GW et al. Mine took two. I assume MCPS has a similar offering.

No kids at Deal but I heard that you have to squeeze in a math course in the summer to get to Cal in 10th. Doesn’t JR offer at least 2 years of advance math past Cal?

You don't if they still offer Algebra 2 (again, they did as of three years ago).

JR offers AP Stat and you can take AP CS A (as well as AP Physics C)...but those aren't really post-Calc BC. Again, you can take Dual Enrollment courses at GW and other local colleges and basically take whatever you want...multivariable, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, et al.

Wow, I can’t believe JR doesn’t offer Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, or Multivariable Calculus

The math offerings are just so subpar and behind in DCPS.

Why is that so concerning to you if DCPS makes it easy to take those classes at GW or Georgetown and you are taught by a COLLEGE professor?

First, it is not easy to try to coordinate your high school schedule to fit in the class. What if you can’t fit it in? So kids don’t get more math and challenge after just Calculus??

Second, you also have to travel and get there and back to your school in time and if you are taking public transportation, lots of variables that could go wrong.

Third, it is isolating when you are taking a class by yourself and not at school with classmates.

But most importantly, math is the only subject that DCPS tracks and they can’t even offer anything past Calculus at what is their best neighborhood high school in 2026? Really? When these offerings are standard just across our border?

If you don’t think that is concerning, I don’t know what to say. What else is so lacking then in the other subjects that don’t track? Is this a sign of a more systemic problem in the system? I would argue most likely.

Those offerings aren't standard in MoCo...I see only multivariable offered at BCC, nothing at Whitman...I am not going to check every school. Those schools promote DE at Montgomery College as ways to take other classes if you want.

They are offered at Blair and Poolesville Magnet and TJ, but not really anywhere else.

Plenty of kids from JR and other schools take DE classes all the time. It's really that not difficult because most of those students already finished their HS requirements and usually have a number of free periods for DE.

Furthermore, maybe 10-15 kids in the entire school would be taking math past Calc BC, so you can only offer one of the advanced math classes...certainly not all three.

Your faux concern makes no sense...at all. My kid had zero issues taking Multivariable and Linear Algebra at GW and loved taking it in an actual college classroom with an actual college professor.

PP here. I never said standard to offer all 3. I said or meaning any of the 3, anything past Cal. Yes it is standard to offer math class past Cal. You seriously don’t believe that Whitman doesn’t offer that?

I’ll add in VA that Langley offers Linear Algebra, Multivariable Calculus, Discrete math. Mclean high offers Linear Algebra and Multivariable Calculus.

Also at JR with almost 2000 kids, if only 10-15 kids are in the most advanced track, that tells me that lots of the mathy kids have left DCPS and not stayed on. Let’s guess why.

Lastly, no plenty of kids do not take DE and it is not easy the logistics and all roses as you make it.

Instead of making excuses for DCPS, demand better. How can it be acceptable not to offer any math past Cal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

No idea if this is still the case anyway, but at the state flagship where I went to college (20 years ago), they made you take a math placement exam and they'd recommend what class you should enroll in. Most people who had taken AP Calc were still recommended to start with Calc 1. It was just a recommendation, and if you'd taken calc in HS you could try just skipping Calc 1. But I knew people who did that and really struggled, including my roommate who loved math and had declared a math major and then got frustrated by that experience and wound up in a non-math major.

I think it's very hard for a HS student to truly do college-level math while still being a HS student. They are taking too many classes and have too many other commitments to really go deep. It's the same way most HS students can't write a college-level thesis paper, design and execute lab experiments, etc. These things take sustained focus -- longer classes, more study and work outside of class, fewer distractions. It's literally what college is for. HS is meant to largely complete your general studies (college will have some general studies requirements but they will be mostly entry level and most people will take no more than one of these a semester after freshman year). College is for dedicated study in the field where you will work.

It's not that smart HS kids are not capable of college level work -- many are, especially by junior or senior year. It's that their lives, and their education, are not structured in a way to truly facilitate it. I think this is one reason a lot of teens are so stressed these days -- they are being asked to do things that don't really make sense within the confines of their lifestyle, which they didn't even choose for themselves. The obsession with math acceleration is part of that.

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Anonymous wrote:And yet their senior class has gotten into phenomenal colleges/universities. Yep. Must be a terrible place. Full panic. 🙄

No kids at the school but I just looked up the SAT average and it’s abysmal at 964. There is a disconnect here with what you are saying.

What you call a “disconnect” is the simple statistical fact that the average does not define the upper bound of a distribution.

The SAT average at JR is 1083, and everyone knows the top kids there have high scores and attend great colleges. MacArthur is the same.

There is not many kids at the upper bound of distribution if the average is that low.

A few outliers does not define a good school with challenge and rigor.

The average scores will go up do to an increased number of kids on the high end.

There are more high-performing kids in the current 9th grade because that's the first class of Hardy kids to no longer have j-R as an option.

With that said, if DCPS actually wanted to create a successful rather than middling school, they would have given no Hardy students to the option to choose J-R.

Have you looked at CAPE scores? Not a lot of high performing kids coming from Hardy esp in math. Deal was the one contributing many mire high performing kids, the majority, when JR was the only feeder for both schools.

Also only about 1/2 Hardy families continued on to MA thus year. I would not consider that a lot of buy in. Scores will not miraculously go way up with such a small sample.

Hardy and Deal both have >95% of students meeting or exceeding on Geometry CAPE. Both the highest in the city.

For Algebra I, Deal had 92% meeting or exceeding, Hardy 84%. Only other school with higher rate was MacFarland at 86%.

We are talking high performing so look at exceeding only and Geometry or higher. Also take that and actually get absolute numbers of kids.

Meeting standards on coursework two years years ahead of grade level is not high performing? There are very few schools anywhere that are going to meet your standards then.

In any case, Deal had 63% level 5 on Geometry, Hardy 28%. Both the highest in the city.

Example of low expectations. Algebra 1 is the standard track and anything below that is remedial for any college bound kid. Geometry is just 1 year ahead. Algebra 2 in 8th is 2 years ahead.

People in the burbs would laugh in your face if you think Algebra 1 in 8th is advance.

So Deal has not only more than 2 times the number of high performing kids in percentages but also more than 2 times the absolute number of kids. Thanks for proving my point that majority of high performing kids going to JR in the past was from Deal.

Enjoy the suburbs I guess.

You should if you have a mathy and Stem kid because geometry and Algebra 2 are a standard part of the curriculum. Algebra 2 will get you to AP Calculus by 10th and you can go 2 years beyond that. TJ is the only school which offers even more advancement and if your kid is gifted, that is where they should go.

It’s shocking that the majority of DCPS middle schools don’t even offer Geometry. The few that do that is the highest. No Algebra 2. But I guess if 95% of the kids are below grade level in math, there is no point because you don’t have any kids who can do it.

Social promotion and low expectations is a vicious cycle that begets more.

Did Deal stop offering Algebra 2? My kid took it in 8th grade.

Many advanced math kids in DCPS take DE math classes at GW et al. Mine took two. I assume MCPS has a similar offering.

No kids at Deal but I heard that you have to squeeze in a math course in the summer to get to Cal in 10th. Doesn’t JR offer at least 2 years of advance math past Cal?

You don't if they still offer Algebra 2 (again, they did as of three years ago).

JR offers AP Stat and you can take AP CS A (as well as AP Physics C)...but those aren't really post-Calc BC. Again, you can take Dual Enrollment courses at GW and other local colleges and basically take whatever you want...multivariable, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, et al.

Wow, I can’t believe JR doesn’t offer Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, or Multivariable Calculus

The math offerings are just so subpar and behind in DCPS.

Why is that so concerning to you if DCPS makes it easy to take those classes at GW or Georgetown and you are taught by a COLLEGE professor?

First, it is not easy to try to coordinate your high school schedule to fit in the class. What if you can’t fit it in? So kids don’t get more math and challenge after just Calculus??

Second, you also have to travel and get there and back to your school in time and if you are taking public transportation, lots of variables that could go wrong.

Third, it is isolating when you are taking a class by yourself and not at school with classmates.

But most importantly, math is the only subject that DCPS tracks and they can’t even offer anything past Calculus at what is their best neighborhood high school in 2026? Really? When these offerings are standard just across our border?

If you don’t think that is concerning, I don’t know what to say. What else is so lacking then in the other subjects that don’t track? Is this a sign of a more systemic problem in the system? I would argue most likely.

Those offerings aren't standard in MoCo...I see only multivariable offered at BCC, nothing at Whitman...I am not going to check every school. Those schools promote DE at Montgomery College as ways to take other classes if you want.

They are offered at Blair and Poolesville Magnet and TJ, but not really anywhere else.

Plenty of kids from JR and other schools take DE classes all the time. It's really that not difficult because most of those students already finished their HS requirements and usually have a number of free periods for DE.

Furthermore, maybe 10-15 kids in the entire school would be taking math past Calc BC, so you can only offer one of the advanced math classes...certainly not all three.

Your faux concern makes no sense...at all. My kid had zero issues taking Multivariable and Linear Algebra at GW and loved taking it in an actual college classroom with an actual college professor.

PP here. I never said standard to offer all 3. I said or meaning any of the 3, anything past Cal. Yes it is standard to offer math class past Cal. You seriously don’t believe that Whitman doesn’t offer that?

I’ll add in VA that Langley offers Linear Algebra, Multivariable Calculus, Discrete math. Mclean high offers Linear Algebra and Multivariable Calculus.

Also at JR with almost 2000 kids, if only 10-15 kids are in the most advanced track, that tells me that lots of the mathy kids have left DCPS and not stayed on. Let’s guess why.

Lastly, no plenty of kids do not take DE and it is not easy the logistics and all roses as you make it.

Instead of making excuses for DCPS, demand better. How can it be acceptable not to offer any math past Cal?

You don’t seem to even have a kid at JR or even in DCPS. If you did, you would know that plenty of kids take DE…and many colleges will accept those credits (while they won’t for a class taught at HS) because they are actual college classes taught by college professors.

Whitman in fact doesnt offer anything above BC…many MoCo schools don’t.

It’s bizarre that you continue to rant on this for really no apparent reason.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:And yet their senior class has gotten into phenomenal colleges/universities. Yep. Must be a terrible place. Full panic. 🙄

No kids at the school but I just looked up the SAT average and it’s abysmal at 964. There is a disconnect here with what you are saying.

What you call a “disconnect” is the simple statistical fact that the average does not define the upper bound of a distribution.

The SAT average at JR is 1083, and everyone knows the top kids there have high scores and attend great colleges. MacArthur is the same.

There is not many kids at the upper bound of distribution if the average is that low.

A few outliers does not define a good school with challenge and rigor.

The average scores will go up do to an increased number of kids on the high end.

There are more high-performing kids in the current 9th grade because that's the first class of Hardy kids to no longer have j-R as an option.

With that said, if DCPS actually wanted to create a successful rather than middling school, they would have given no Hardy students to the option to choose J-R.

Have you looked at CAPE scores? Not a lot of high performing kids coming from Hardy esp in math. Deal was the one contributing many mire high performing kids, the majority, when JR was the only feeder for both schools.

Also only about 1/2 Hardy families continued on to MA thus year. I would not consider that a lot of buy in. Scores will not miraculously go way up with such a small sample.

Hardy and Deal both have >95% of students meeting or exceeding on Geometry CAPE. Both the highest in the city.

For Algebra I, Deal had 92% meeting or exceeding, Hardy 84%. Only other school with higher rate was MacFarland at 86%.

We are talking high performing so look at exceeding only and Geometry or higher. Also take that and actually get absolute numbers of kids.

Meeting standards on coursework two years years ahead of grade level is not high performing? There are very few schools anywhere that are going to meet your standards then.

In any case, Deal had 63% level 5 on Geometry, Hardy 28%. Both the highest in the city.

Example of low expectations. Algebra 1 is the standard track and anything below that is remedial for any college bound kid. Geometry is just 1 year ahead. Algebra 2 in 8th is 2 years ahead.

People in the burbs would laugh in your face if you think Algebra 1 in 8th is advance.

So Deal has not only more than 2 times the number of high performing kids in percentages but also more than 2 times the absolute number of kids. Thanks for proving my point that majority of high performing kids going to JR in the past was from Deal.

Enjoy the suburbs I guess.

You should if you have a mathy and Stem kid because geometry and Algebra 2 are a standard part of the curriculum. Algebra 2 will get you to AP Calculus by 10th and you can go 2 years beyond that. TJ is the only school which offers even more advancement and if your kid is gifted, that is where they should go.

It’s shocking that the majority of DCPS middle schools don’t even offer Geometry. The few that do that is the highest. No Algebra 2. But I guess if 95% of the kids are below grade level in math, there is no point because you don’t have any kids who can do it.

Social promotion and low expectations is a vicious cycle that begets more.

Did Deal stop offering Algebra 2? My kid took it in 8th grade.

Many advanced math kids in DCPS take DE math classes at GW et al. Mine took two. I assume MCPS has a similar offering.

No kids at Deal but I heard that you have to squeeze in a math course in the summer to get to Cal in 10th. Doesn’t JR offer at least 2 years of advance math past Cal?

You don't if they still offer Algebra 2 (again, they did as of three years ago).

JR offers AP Stat and you can take AP CS A (as well as AP Physics C)...but those aren't really post-Calc BC. Again, you can take Dual Enrollment courses at GW and other local colleges and basically take whatever you want...multivariable, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, et al.

Wow, I can’t believe JR doesn’t offer Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, or Multivariable Calculus

The math offerings are just so subpar and behind in DCPS.

Why is that so concerning to you if DCPS makes it easy to take those classes at GW or Georgetown and you are taught by a COLLEGE professor?

First, it is not easy to try to coordinate your high school schedule to fit in the class. What if you can’t fit it in? So kids don’t get more math and challenge after just Calculus??

Second, you also have to travel and get there and back to your school in time and if you are taking public transportation, lots of variables that could go wrong.

Third, it is isolating when you are taking a class by yourself and not at school with classmates.

But most importantly, math is the only subject that DCPS tracks and they can’t even offer anything past Calculus at what is their best neighborhood high school in 2026? Really? When these offerings are standard just across our border?

If you don’t think that is concerning, I don’t know what to say. What else is so lacking then in the other subjects that don’t track? Is this a sign of a more systemic problem in the system? I would argue most likely.

Those offerings aren't standard in MoCo...I see only multivariable offered at BCC, nothing at Whitman...I am not going to check every school. Those schools promote DE at Montgomery College as ways to take other classes if you want.

They are offered at Blair and Poolesville Magnet and TJ, but not really anywhere else.

Plenty of kids from JR and other schools take DE classes all the time. It's really that not difficult because most of those students already finished their HS requirements and usually have a number of free periods for DE.

Furthermore, maybe 10-15 kids in the entire school would be taking math past Calc BC, so you can only offer one of the advanced math classes...certainly not all three.

Your faux concern makes no sense...at all. My kid had zero issues taking Multivariable and Linear Algebra at GW and loved taking it in an actual college classroom with an actual college professor.

PP here. I never said standard to offer all 3. I said or meaning any of the 3, anything past Cal. Yes it is standard to offer math class past Cal. You seriously don’t believe that Whitman doesn’t offer that?

I’ll add in VA that Langley offers Linear Algebra, Multivariable Calculus, Discrete math. Mclean high offers Linear Algebra and Multivariable Calculus.

Also at JR with almost 2000 kids, if only 10-15 kids are in the most advanced track, that tells me that lots of the mathy kids have left DCPS and not stayed on. Let’s guess why.

Lastly, no plenty of kids do not take DE and it is not easy the logistics and all roses as you make it.

Instead of making excuses for DCPS, demand better. How can it be acceptable not to offer any math past Cal?

You don’t seem to even have a kid at JR or even in DCPS. If you did, you would know that plenty of kids take DE…and many colleges will accept those credits (while they won’t for a class taught at HS) because they are actual college classes taught by college professors.

Whitman in fact doesnt offer anything above BC…many MoCo schools don’t.

It’s bizarre that you continue to rant on this for really no apparent reason.

Whitman offers multivariable calculus

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:And yet their senior class has gotten into phenomenal colleges/universities. Yep. Must be a terrible place. Full panic. 🙄

No kids at the school but I just looked up the SAT average and it’s abysmal at 964. There is a disconnect here with what you are saying.

What you call a “disconnect” is the simple statistical fact that the average does not define the upper bound of a distribution.

The SAT average at JR is 1083, and everyone knows the top kids there have high scores and attend great colleges. MacArthur is the same.

There is not many kids at the upper bound of distribution if the average is that low.

A few outliers does not define a good school with challenge and rigor.

The average scores will go up do to an increased number of kids on the high end.

There are more high-performing kids in the current 9th grade because that's the first class of Hardy kids to no longer have j-R as an option.

With that said, if DCPS actually wanted to create a successful rather than middling school, they would have given no Hardy students to the option to choose J-R.

Have you looked at CAPE scores? Not a lot of high performing kids coming from Hardy esp in math. Deal was the one contributing many mire high performing kids, the majority, when JR was the only feeder for both schools.

Also only about 1/2 Hardy families continued on to MA thus year. I would not consider that a lot of buy in. Scores will not miraculously go way up with such a small sample.

Hardy and Deal both have >95% of students meeting or exceeding on Geometry CAPE. Both the highest in the city.

For Algebra I, Deal had 92% meeting or exceeding, Hardy 84%. Only other school with higher rate was MacFarland at 86%.

We are talking high performing so look at exceeding only and Geometry or higher. Also take that and actually get absolute numbers of kids.

Meeting standards on coursework two years years ahead of grade level is not high performing? There are very few schools anywhere that are going to meet your standards then.

In any case, Deal had 63% level 5 on Geometry, Hardy 28%. Both the highest in the city.

Example of low expectations. Algebra 1 is the standard track and anything below that is remedial for any college bound kid. Geometry is just 1 year ahead. Algebra 2 in 8th is 2 years ahead.

People in the burbs would laugh in your face if you think Algebra 1 in 8th is advance.

So Deal has not only more than 2 times the number of high performing kids in percentages but also more than 2 times the absolute number of kids. Thanks for proving my point that majority of high performing kids going to JR in the past was from Deal.

Enjoy the suburbs I guess.

You should if you have a mathy and Stem kid because geometry and Algebra 2 are a standard part of the curriculum. Algebra 2 will get you to AP Calculus by 10th and you can go 2 years beyond that. TJ is the only school which offers even more advancement and if your kid is gifted, that is where they should go.

It’s shocking that the majority of DCPS middle schools don’t even offer Geometry. The few that do that is the highest. No Algebra 2. But I guess if 95% of the kids are below grade level in math, there is no point because you don’t have any kids who can do it.

Social promotion and low expectations is a vicious cycle that begets more.

Did Deal stop offering Algebra 2? My kid took it in 8th grade.

Many advanced math kids in DCPS take DE math classes at GW et al. Mine took two. I assume MCPS has a similar offering.

No kids at Deal but I heard that you have to squeeze in a math course in the summer to get to Cal in 10th. Doesn’t JR offer at least 2 years of advance math past Cal?

You don't if they still offer Algebra 2 (again, they did as of three years ago).

JR offers AP Stat and you can take AP CS A (as well as AP Physics C)...but those aren't really post-Calc BC. Again, you can take Dual Enrollment courses at GW and other local colleges and basically take whatever you want...multivariable, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, et al.

Wow, I can’t believe JR doesn’t offer Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, or Multivariable Calculus

The math offerings are just so subpar and behind in DCPS.

Why is that so concerning to you if DCPS makes it easy to take those classes at GW or Georgetown and you are taught by a COLLEGE professor?

First, it is not easy to try to coordinate your high school schedule to fit in the class. What if you can’t fit it in? So kids don’t get more math and challenge after just Calculus??

Second, you also have to travel and get there and back to your school in time and if you are taking public transportation, lots of variables that could go wrong.

Third, it is isolating when you are taking a class by yourself and not at school with classmates.

But most importantly, math is the only subject that DCPS tracks and they can’t even offer anything past Calculus at what is their best neighborhood high school in 2026? Really? When these offerings are standard just across our border?

If you don’t think that is concerning, I don’t know what to say. What else is so lacking then in the other subjects that don’t track? Is this a sign of a more systemic problem in the system? I would argue most likely.

Those offerings aren't standard in MoCo...I see only multivariable offered at BCC, nothing at Whitman...I am not going to check every school. Those schools promote DE at Montgomery College as ways to take other classes if you want.

They are offered at Blair and Poolesville Magnet and TJ, but not really anywhere else.

Plenty of kids from JR and other schools take DE classes all the time. It's really that not difficult because most of those students already finished their HS requirements and usually have a number of free periods for DE.

Furthermore, maybe 10-15 kids in the entire school would be taking math past Calc BC, so you can only offer one of the advanced math classes...certainly not all three.

Your faux concern makes no sense...at all. My kid had zero issues taking Multivariable and Linear Algebra at GW and loved taking it in an actual college classroom with an actual college professor.

MVC is offered at Wheaton as well. My kid took it and was able to take the UMD Math Department exam at the end of 12th grade. He got an A on the UMD exam and after paying thirty bucks to get the grade recorded on his transcript, he started UMD with the A on his transcript. It was really helpful to get that pre-req for engineering out of the way.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

I work in college admissions so I know that the statement above is out of date. In fact, even colleges admitting in the single digits and teens ("Ivy Plus" and top 10 SLACs) have been steadily deemphasizing AP Calc in admissions for applicants who aren't engineering-oriented in the past decade. Admissions officers are increasingly happy with AP Stats instead, or a pass in IB Diploma Standard Level mixed math as long as an applicant is strong subject that line up with their likely intended major/concentration. If you doubt this, do a search. It's true.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

But taking it easy in college will cost the actual last few years of their childhood.

Some families will do fine letting their older now adult children actually work to master the new to them math they will encounter in college.

So you want your kid to be at a huge disadvantage and potentially struggle to keep up in college, rather then be prepared and on same level as their classmates?

There is no cost when the math is not hard. This is what you don’t get. These kids are bored to death and need more. They can and want more.

BTW if you want to go to medicine or really good PHD after college, you absolutely cannot afford to not do well your 1st year and hope to make it up later.

My kids are really good at math. That's why we are using this time to shore up things they aren't naturally good at. I don't want them to be one dimensional.

Are they bored sometime? Maybe? But they've been busy enough outside of school.

I've taken some of the classes they'll take in college and I think they will be able to take the classes in stride. They have good habits in math and school in general.

You realize it’s not one or the other. If your kids school could offer them enough challenge with advance classes, it would cost you no time. That is the point. They are learning and being challenged in school. It doesn’t sound like it is the case right now for you. You could still spend your time with other stuff with your kids.

Being good is also relative. Being good in DCPS is not the same as being good at a magnet in MCPS.

The playing field is much higher in college and I wouldn’t be so confident that your kid is going to do well when the competition is much more if they go to a good school.

+1. PP does not understand just how bad math instruction is in DCPS. That said I am not convinced it is all that much better anywhere. I’m actually pretty close to just giving up at focusing on my DS (current 8th grader) doing what is necessary to get decent math grades as opposed to actual intellectual challenge. It helps that math isn’t his strongest subject and he was never going to be on a STEM track career-wise, so ultimately, a poor math education impacts him less. The kids that it is MORE important for are actually the “mathy” kids who need math for their higher education and career success. Those are the ones whose parents need to understand just how very bad math instruction is. Meanwhile I will focus more on writing and research skills since that is my DS’s path.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There is a refuge. Advanced academic HS programs that run as school-within-a-school programs in the burbs are the refuge. The MoCo magnets and IB Diploma programs in the VA burbs don't serve high-needs populations. The honors middle school classes in all core subjects in VA are what we need in DC. If DCPS would only follow suit, far more UMC families would stay in the system. We expect so little of our city politicians that they don't need to bother pushing a refuge.

This reflexive, unexamined assumption that schools with high needs populations should divert resources from serving that population to, for some unexplained reason, chase UMC kids is bizarre to me. As a DC taxpayer, that’s not the priority I want to see.

School SYSTEMS should address the needs of all students which always includes advanced students - who exist in low resource schools. Stop having such low standards.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

No idea if this is still the case anyway, but at the state flagship where I went to college (20 years ago), they made you take a math placement exam and they'd recommend what class you should enroll in. Most people who had taken AP Calc were still recommended to start with Calc 1. It was just a recommendation, and if you'd taken calc in HS you could try just skipping Calc 1. But I knew people who did that and really struggled, including my roommate who loved math and had declared a math major and then got frustrated by that experience and wound up in a non-math major.

I think it's very hard for a HS student to truly do college-level math while still being a HS student. They are taking too many classes and have too many other commitments to really go deep. It's the same way most HS students can't write a college-level thesis paper, design and execute lab experiments, etc. These things take sustained focus -- longer classes, more study and work outside of class, fewer distractions. It's literally what college is for. HS is meant to largely complete your general studies (college will have some general studies requirements but they will be mostly entry level and most people will take no more than one of these a semester after freshman year). College is for dedicated study in the field where you will work.

It's not that smart HS kids are not capable of college level work -- many are, especially by junior or senior year. It's that their lives, and their education, are not structured in a way to truly facilitate it. I think this is one reason a lot of teens are so stressed these days -- they are being asked to do things that don't really make sense within the confines of their lifestyle, which they didn't even choose for themselves. The obsession with math acceleration is part of that.

That’s really quite insightful. I went to a high performing public school (in the 90s) and was pushed into math acceleration and did calculus as a jr, barely getting a 3 on the AP exam. I never ended up doing math after that because my college accepted the AP credit. In retrospect I could have understood and enjoyed calculus much more at a slower pace and more focus and maybe with some 1:1 tutoring. I don’t think I ever would have been a STEM major but it could have been a more meaningful learning experience. Same with AP Physics.