Did Noah really live

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, it is kind of insane that we refer back to some random book - that no one even knows how it was written - to make major decisions in our lives. I mean, are the Jews really God's chosen people? What does that mean for the rest of us? Does God have other choices out there? Are the elephants God's chosen too, over say, the zebras?

It's not a "random book" like the Book of Mormon. It's a compilation of centuries of oral and written history, such as it was understood by the people of the time in that place.

It is random. The earliest parts of the Old Testament are dated to around 1400-1200 BCE. The current product was not canonized until the fourth century CE. Prior to that, different communities assembled various collections of scriptures. Even now, with one "standard" form, we have multitudes of denominations due to different interpretations of those same words.

The lord works in mysterious ways

[Anonymous]

How is this even a thread?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is this even a thread?

Because MAGA exists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, it is kind of insane that we refer back to some random book - that no one even knows how it was written - to make major decisions in our lives. I mean, are the Jews really God's chosen people? What does that mean for the rest of us? Does God have other choices out there? Are the elephants God's chosen too, over say, the zebras?

And they were only God's chosen people till 500 years after the Torah God changed his mind. Try to make sense of that.

Well, Jews would disagree with this.

My rabbi actually devoted his Yom Kippur sermon to this question of what it means for Jews to be chosen. He basically said, citing Torah, we were chosen to receive the Torah not because we were so good or virtuous, but because we don’t worship idols and because God still felt loyal to Abraham and Sarah. And that we aren’t the only chosen people — we just happen to be the chosen people in the story we tell about ourselves. But then Christianity spread our story, written as a narrative for ourselves, around the world, and it took on new contexts no Jews intended (and which mostly have not benefited us). Then he also said we need to condemn and confront Jewish supremacy rooted in chosen-ness among our right-wing brethren here and in Israel.

Anyway, it made me think of this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, it is kind of insane that we refer back to some random book - that no one even knows how it was written - to make major decisions in our lives. I mean, are the Jews really God's chosen people? What does that mean for the rest of us? Does God have other choices out there? Are the elephants God's chosen too, over say, the zebras?

Nice explanation, I hope it’s correct

And they were only God's chosen people till 500 years after the Torah God changed his mind. Try to make sense of that.

Well, Jews would disagree with this.

My rabbi actually devoted his Yom Kippur sermon to this question of what it means for Jews to be chosen. He basically said, citing Torah, we were chosen to receive the Torah not because we were so good or virtuous, but because we don’t worship idols and because God still felt loyal to Abraham and Sarah. And that we aren’t the only chosen people — we just happen to be the chosen people in the story we tell about ourselves. But then Christianity spread our story, written as a narrative for ourselves, around the world, and it took on new contexts no Jews intended (and which mostly have not benefited us). Then he also said we need to condemn and confront Jewish supremacy rooted in chosen-ness among our right-wing brethren here and in Israel.

Anyway, it made me think of this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, it is kind of insane that we refer back to some random book - that no one even knows how it was written - to make major decisions in our lives. I mean, are the Jews really God's chosen people? What does that mean for the rest of us? Does God have other choices out there? Are the elephants God's chosen too, over say, the zebras?

And they were only God's chosen people till 500 years after the Torah God changed his mind. Try to make sense of that.

Well, Jews would disagree with this.

My rabbi actually devoted his Yom Kippur sermon to this question of what it means for Jews to be chosen. He basically said, citing Torah, we were chosen to receive the Torah not because we were so good or virtuous, but because we don’t worship idols and because God still felt loyal to Abraham and Sarah. And that we aren’t the only chosen people — we just happen to be the chosen people in the story we tell about ourselves. But then Christianity spread our story, written as a narrative for ourselves, around the world, and it took on new contexts no Jews intended (and which mostly have not benefited us). Then he also said we need to condemn and confront Jewish supremacy rooted in chosen-ness among our right-wing brethren here and in Israel.

Anyway, it made me think of this thread.

To be chosen... to be chosen among the sextillion number of worlds in the universe, to be chosen among the hundreds of cultures and peoples that live across multiple locations around the globe, to be chosen among religious beliefs that "don't worship idols" and are still promoting good and virtue...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, it is kind of insane that we refer back to some random book - that no one even knows how it was written - to make major decisions in our lives. I mean, are the Jews really God's chosen people? What does that mean for the rest of us? Does God have other choices out there? Are the elephants God's chosen too, over say, the zebras?

And they were only God's chosen people till 500 years after the Torah God changed his mind. Try to make sense of that.

Well, Jews would disagree with this.

My rabbi actually devoted his Yom Kippur sermon to this question of what it means for Jews to be chosen. He basically said, citing Torah, we were chosen to receive the Torah not because we were so good or virtuous, but because we don’t worship idols and because God still felt loyal to Abraham and Sarah. And that we aren’t the only chosen people — we just happen to be the chosen people in the story we tell about ourselves. But then Christianity spread our story, written as a narrative for ourselves, around the world, and it took on new contexts no Jews intended (and which mostly have not benefited us). Then he also said we need to condemn and confront Jewish supremacy rooted in chosen-ness among our right-wing brethren here and in Israel.

Anyway, it made me think of this thread.

To be chosen... to be chosen among the sextillion number of worlds in the universe, to be chosen among the hundreds of cultures and peoples that live across multiple locations around the globe, to be chosen among religious beliefs that "don't worship idols" and are still promoting good and virtue...

Right, that’s why he pointed out that we are the chosen people IN THE STORY WE TELL ABOUT OURSELVES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. If there were humans who had lived to hundreds of years old, there would be fossil evidence of it. There is none. The human body was not designed for that kind of longevity. The animals who regularly live to over 100 years old, other than humans now with the help of technology, are all sea animals. So unless you think Noah was some kind of gilled, underwater human (which of course makes no sense), then no, he did not live to be 950 years old.

But then I assume most things about Noah's story are just folklore. There probably was a really big flood and then some myths arose around the survivors and how they survived.

Do we have fossil evidence from the time of Noah from humans?

Well, if Bishop Usher's calculations were right, Noah lived a few thousand years ago, so yes we do have human remains. I'm not clear if those are technically fossils (totally mineralized) but between mummies and bog bodies and bones and people whose remains emerge from melting glaciers, we got plenty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. If there were humans who had lived to hundreds of years old, there would be fossil evidence of it. There is none. The human body was not designed for that kind of longevity. The animals who regularly live to over 100 years old, other than humans now with the help of technology, are all sea animals. So unless you think Noah was some kind of gilled, underwater human (which of course makes no sense), then no, he did not live to be 950 years old.

But then I assume most things about Noah's story are just folklore. There probably was a really big flood and then some myths arose around the survivors and how they survived.

Do we have fossil evidence from the time of Noah from humans?

Well, if Bishop Usher's calculations were right, Noah lived a few thousand years ago, so yes we do have human remains. I'm not clear if those are technically fossils (totally mineralized) but between mummies and bog bodies and bones and people whose remains emerge from melting glaciers, we got plenty.

We don't have fossil evidence from the time of Noah because Noah was not a real person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, it is kind of insane that we refer back to some random book - that no one even knows how it was written - to make major decisions in our lives. I mean, are the Jews really God's chosen people? What does that mean for the rest of us? Does God have other choices out there? Are the elephants God's chosen too, over say, the zebras?

And they were only God's chosen people till 500 years after the Torah God changed his mind. Try to make sense of that.

Well, Jews would disagree with this.

My rabbi actually devoted his Yom Kippur sermon to this question of what it means for Jews to be chosen. He basically said, citing Torah, we were chosen to receive the Torah not because we were so good or virtuous, but because we don’t worship idols and because God still felt loyal to Abraham and Sarah. And that we aren’t the only chosen people — we just happen to be the chosen people in the story we tell about ourselves. But then Christianity spread our story, written as a narrative for ourselves, around the world, and it took on new contexts no Jews intended (and which mostly have not benefited us). Then he also said we need to condemn and confront Jewish supremacy rooted in chosen-ness among our right-wing brethren here and in Israel.

Anyway, it made me think of this thread.

To be chosen... to be chosen among the sextillion number of worlds in the universe, to be chosen among the hundreds of cultures and peoples that live across multiple locations around the globe, to be chosen among religious beliefs that "don't worship idols" and are still promoting good and virtue...

Right, that’s why he pointed out that we are the chosen people IN THE STORY WE TELL ABOUT OURSELVES.

Which any athiest would say that's why your god makes you the chosen people. The religion is for your people. It doesn't make it true. It also doesn't make sense that Christianity would be a continuation of the same God.

[Anonymous]

In other words men from your tribe wrote a book starting a religion and naturally put themselves and their tribe at the head and center of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, it is kind of insane that we refer back to some random book - that no one even knows how it was written - to make major decisions in our lives. I mean, are the Jews really God's chosen people? What does that mean for the rest of us? Does God have other choices out there? Are the elephants God's chosen too, over say, the zebras?

And they were only God's chosen people till 500 years after the Torah God changed his mind. Try to make sense of that.

Well, Jews would disagree with this.

My rabbi actually devoted his Yom Kippur sermon to this question of what it means for Jews to be chosen. He basically said, citing Torah, we were chosen to receive the Torah not because we were so good or virtuous, but because we don’t worship idols and because God still felt loyal to Abraham and Sarah. And that we aren’t the only chosen people — we just happen to be the chosen people in the story we tell about ourselves. But then Christianity spread our story, written as a narrative for ourselves, around the world, and it took on new contexts no Jews intended (and which mostly have not benefited us). Then he also said we need to condemn and confront Jewish supremacy rooted in chosen-ness among our right-wing brethren here and in Israel.

Anyway, it made me think of this thread.

To be chosen... to be chosen among the sextillion number of worlds in the universe, to be chosen among the hundreds of cultures and peoples that live across multiple locations around the globe, to be chosen among religious beliefs that "don't worship idols" and are still promoting good and virtue...

Right, that’s why he pointed out that we are the chosen people IN THE STORY WE TELL ABOUT OURSELVES.

I get it and I hope that pp above gets it too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, it is kind of insane that we refer back to some random book - that no one even knows how it was written - to make major decisions in our lives. I mean, are the Jews really God's chosen people? What does that mean for the rest of us? Does God have other choices out there? Are the elephants God's chosen too, over say, the zebras?

And they were only God's chosen people till 500 years after the Torah God changed his mind. Try to make sense of that.

Well, Jews would disagree with this.

My rabbi actually devoted his Yom Kippur sermon to this question of what it means for Jews to be chosen. He basically said, citing Torah, we were chosen to receive the Torah not because we were so good or virtuous, but because we don’t worship idols and because God still felt loyal to Abraham and Sarah. And that we aren’t the only chosen people — we just happen to be the chosen people in the story we tell about ourselves. But then Christianity spread our story, written as a narrative for ourselves, around the world, and it took on new contexts no Jews intended (and which mostly have not benefited us). Then he also said we need to condemn and confront Jewish supremacy rooted in chosen-ness among our right-wing brethren here and in Israel.

Anyway, it made me think of this thread.

To be chosen... to be chosen among the sextillion number of worlds in the universe, to be chosen among the hundreds of cultures and peoples that live across multiple locations around the globe, to be chosen among religious beliefs that "don't worship idols" and are still promoting good and virtue...

Right, that’s why he pointed out that we are the chosen people IN THE STORY WE TELL ABOUT OURSELVES.

Which any athiest would say that's why your god makes you the chosen people. The religion is for your people. It doesn't make it true. It also doesn't make sense that Christianity would be a continuation of the same God.

Yes, exactly. Jews don’t believe Christianity is a continuation of the same god, because we don’t believe in Christianity. And my rabbi’s point was that being “chosen” doesn’t mean what a lot of people — Jewish or not — have said it means. So I think you agree with his point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In other words men from your tribe wrote a book starting a religion and naturally put themselves and their tribe at the head and center of it.

Correct, and it was only meant for us, and a lot of the fascination with Jews by non-Jews since the rise of Christianity has been because other people decided they didn’t like the implications they read into that story about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, it is kind of insane that we refer back to some random book - that no one even knows how it was written - to make major decisions in our lives. I mean, are the Jews really God's chosen people? What does that mean for the rest of us? Does God have other choices out there? Are the elephants God's chosen too, over say, the zebras?

Nice explanation, I hope it’s correct

And they were only God's chosen people till 500 years after the Torah God changed his mind. Try to make sense of that.

Well, Jews would disagree with this.

My rabbi actually devoted his Yom Kippur sermon to this question of what it means for Jews to be chosen. He basically said, citing Torah, we were chosen to receive the Torah not because we were so good or virtuous, but because we don’t worship idols and because God still felt loyal to Abraham and Sarah. And that we aren’t the only chosen people — we just happen to be the chosen people in the story we tell about ourselves. But then Christianity spread our story, written as a narrative for ourselves, around the world, and it took on new contexts no Jews intended (and which mostly have not benefited us). Then he also said we need to condemn and confront Jewish supremacy rooted in chosen-ness among our right-wing brethren here and in Israel.

Anyway, it made me think of this thread.

Sounds right to me.