I am Luis Fernandez - of Woodley suspension (in)famy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

Who are you to know whether they did?? It was the opposing team. They very well may have had a discussion with that teams coaches, that seems really likely. That is why self righteous egotistical jerks without all the information don’t need to come in, “scan” children’s bodies, make assumptions, and embarrass children in a mini meet that isn’t even a real competition. That is about pride and politics and nothing else. It was cruel and self centered. As others have said intersex is a medical condition. God forbid this child has that. And if gender dysphoria is what they are struggling with they deserve to be treated like a child and not shamed as well. It is not your place.

I am a new poster and like others Luis, I completely and unequivocally disagree with how you approached this. Under NO circumstances was this an appropriate response in front of a child. If you have an issue or a question of policy bring it up with the adults after the event.

Doesn’t sound like they gave an alert to the participants that it was now a mixed gender event. Shouldn’t the participants know what kind of event they are participating in when they thought they signed up for segregated sex?

Weighing the harm to the child you questioned (whether you were right or wrong about their private parts) versus any potential harms to the kids swimming against that child, no. The meet itself was a mixed-gender event both in terms of participants and spectators; if someone was concerned about being seen in a bathing suit by a member of the opposite sex, they wouldn't have been there. People were not desperately in need of your opinion about the sex of one of the swimmers. An alert is for fire, lightning, improper chemical balance in the pool, someone choking, or other emergencies. "I was staring at a child's crotch and think I saw a bulge" is not an emergency.

That’s not how it works. The events and individual heats shouldn’t suddenly be mixed gender because someone decided to change their entry at the last minute. That’s not fair to the other swimmers. Is there a rule that says you can change or sex or age at the last minute?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your argument holds some merit from a broad perspective—it’s reasonable to suggest that boys might have a biological advantage in certain athletic events. However, when we look at the actual performance data from NVSL 2025 for the 9–10 age group in the 25-meter butterfly, the gap is far smaller than one might assume.

An analysis of the top 100 times for boys and girls reveals that boys’ average time is just 0.0529 seconds faster than girls’. That’s a mere five-hundredths of a second—a difference so small it’s essentially negligible in the context of summer league swimming.

Here’s a detailed breakdown:

| Tier | Girls’ Avg Time | Boys’ Avg Time | Difference (Girls - Boys) |
| ------- | ---------------- | --------------- | -------------------------- |
| Top 25 | 16.53 s | 16.62 s | -0.087 s |
| Top 50 | 17.14 s | 17.21 s | -0.067 s |
| Top 75 | 17.59 s | 17.63 s | -0.040 s |
| Top 100 | 17.95 s | 18.01 s | -0.053 s |

As the data shows, girls and boys are almost evenly matched, even at the very top. The gender-based performance gap becomes even smaller as the sample size increases, demonstrating that, at this age and in this event, any perceived advantage is statistically insignificant.

Commentary on Your Conduct at the Meet

Regarding how this issue was raised, your behavior, as described in your post, was entirely inappropriate—particularly at a Mini Meet designed to prioritize fun, inclusion, and growth. As a Marshal, your responsibility is to ensure safety and order, not to confront families or unilaterally enforce gender classifications.

Publicly confronting a child’s family, making baseless accusations, and later annotating meet result sheets with the word “boy” showed poor judgment and a serious lack of professionalism. That this occurred in a low-stakes developmental meet only underscores how disproportionate your actions were.

The Board’s decision to suspend your membership is understandable. Frankly, you should consider issuing a formal apology—not only to the participating teams but also to the child and family you targeted. There are respectful and appropriate ways to address concerns, but your approach was neither. Take this as a learning opportunity to reflect and grow from this mistake.

They should make all meets coed for those 10 and under. If there is no difference in times, there is no need for sex segregation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

Who are you to know whether they did?? It was the opposing team. They very well may have had a discussion with that teams coaches, that seems really likely. That is why self righteous egotistical jerks without all the information don’t need to come in, “scan” children’s bodies, make assumptions, and embarrass children in a mini meet that isn’t even a real competition. That is about pride and politics and nothing else. It was cruel and self centered. As others have said intersex is a medical condition. God forbid this child has that. And if gender dysphoria is what they are struggling with they deserve to be treated like a child and not shamed as well. It is not your place.

I am a new poster and like others Luis, I completely and unequivocally disagree with how you approached this. Under NO circumstances was this an appropriate response in front of a child. If you have an issue or a question of policy bring it up with the adults after the event.

Doesn’t sound like they gave an alert to the participants that it was now a mixed gender event. Shouldn’t the participants know what kind of event they are participating in when they thought they signed up for segregated sex?

Weighing the harm to the child you questioned (whether you were right or wrong about their private parts) versus any potential harms to the kids swimming against that child, no. The meet itself was a mixed-gender event both in terms of participants and spectators; if someone was concerned about being seen in a bathing suit by a member of the opposite sex, they wouldn't have been there. People were not desperately in need of your opinion about the sex of one of the swimmers. An alert is for fire, lightning, improper chemical balance in the pool, someone choking, or other emergencies. "I was staring at a child's crotch and think I saw a bulge" is not an emergency.

That’s not how it works. The events and individual heats shouldn’t suddenly be mixed gender because someone decided to change their entry at the last minute. That’s not fair to the other swimmers. Is there a rule that says you can change or sex or age at the last minute?

How is that question relevant? Is there any evidence this kid previously swam as a boy? I find it hard to believe that Luis knows that about this child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

Who are you to know whether they did?? It was the opposing team. They very well may have had a discussion with that teams coaches, that seems really likely. That is why self righteous egotistical jerks without all the information don’t need to come in, “scan” children’s bodies, make assumptions, and embarrass children in a mini meet that isn’t even a real competition. That is about pride and politics and nothing else. It was cruel and self centered. As others have said intersex is a medical condition. God forbid this child has that. And if gender dysphoria is what they are struggling with they deserve to be treated like a child and not shamed as well. It is not your place.

I am a new poster and like others Luis, I completely and unequivocally disagree with how you approached this. Under NO circumstances was this an appropriate response in front of a child. If you have an issue or a question of policy bring it up with the adults after the event.

Doesn’t sound like they gave an alert to the participants that it was now a mixed gender event. Shouldn’t the participants know what kind of event they are participating in when they thought they signed up for segregated sex?

Weighing the harm to the child you questioned (whether you were right or wrong about their private parts) versus any potential harms to the kids swimming against that child, no. The meet itself was a mixed-gender event both in terms of participants and spectators; if someone was concerned about being seen in a bathing suit by a member of the opposite sex, they wouldn't have been there. People were not desperately in need of your opinion about the sex of one of the swimmers. An alert is for fire, lightning, improper chemical balance in the pool, someone choking, or other emergencies. "I was staring at a child's crotch and think I saw a bulge" is not an emergency.

That’s not how it works. The events and individual heats shouldn’t suddenly be mixed gender because someone decided to change their entry at the last minute. That’s not fair to the other swimmers. Is there a rule that says you can change or sex or age at the last minute?

How is that question relevant? Is there any evidence this kid previously swam as a boy? I find it hard to believe that Luis knows that about this child.

When someone steps forward to say that Luis was wrong all along then we’ll know, but the silence is deafening right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

Who are you to know whether they did?? It was the opposing team. They very well may have had a discussion with that teams coaches, that seems really likely. That is why self righteous egotistical jerks without all the information don’t need to come in, “scan” children’s bodies, make assumptions, and embarrass children in a mini meet that isn’t even a real competition. That is about pride and politics and nothing else. It was cruel and self centered. As others have said intersex is a medical condition. God forbid this child has that. And if gender dysphoria is what they are struggling with they deserve to be treated like a child and not shamed as well. It is not your place.

I am a new poster and like others Luis, I completely and unequivocally disagree with how you approached this. Under NO circumstances was this an appropriate response in front of a child. If you have an issue or a question of policy bring it up with the adults after the event.

Doesn’t sound like they gave an alert to the participants that it was now a mixed gender event. Shouldn’t the participants know what kind of event they are participating in when they thought they signed up for segregated sex?

Weighing the harm to the child you questioned (whether you were right or wrong about their private parts) versus any potential harms to the kids swimming against that child, no. The meet itself was a mixed-gender event both in terms of participants and spectators; if someone was concerned about being seen in a bathing suit by a member of the opposite sex, they wouldn't have been there. People were not desperately in need of your opinion about the sex of one of the swimmers. An alert is for fire, lightning, improper chemical balance in the pool, someone choking, or other emergencies. "I was staring at a child's crotch and think I saw a bulge" is not an emergency.

That’s not how it works. The events and individual heats shouldn’t suddenly be mixed gender because someone decided to change their entry at the last minute. That’s not fair to the other swimmers. Is there a rule that says you can change or sex or age at the last minute?

How is that question relevant? Is there any evidence this kid previously swam as a boy? I find it hard to believe that Luis knows that about this child.

When someone steps forward to say that Luis was wrong all along then we’ll know, but the silence is deafening right now.

Then we will know what? That this was a sudden decision by the family?

What makes anyone think that this was a sudden decision?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

Who are you to know whether they did?? It was the opposing team. They very well may have had a discussion with that teams coaches, that seems really likely. That is why self righteous egotistical jerks without all the information don’t need to come in, “scan” children’s bodies, make assumptions, and embarrass children in a mini meet that isn’t even a real competition. That is about pride and politics and nothing else. It was cruel and self centered. As others have said intersex is a medical condition. God forbid this child has that. And if gender dysphoria is what they are struggling with they deserve to be treated like a child and not shamed as well. It is not your place.

I am a new poster and like others Luis, I completely and unequivocally disagree with how you approached this. Under NO circumstances was this an appropriate response in front of a child. If you have an issue or a question of policy bring it up with the adults after the event.

Doesn’t sound like they gave an alert to the participants that it was now a mixed gender event. Shouldn’t the participants know what kind of event they are participating in when they thought they signed up for segregated sex?

Weighing the harm to the child you questioned (whether you were right or wrong about their private parts) versus any potential harms to the kids swimming against that child, no. The meet itself was a mixed-gender event both in terms of participants and spectators; if someone was concerned about being seen in a bathing suit by a member of the opposite sex, they wouldn't have been there. People were not desperately in need of your opinion about the sex of one of the swimmers. An alert is for fire, lightning, improper chemical balance in the pool, someone choking, or other emergencies. "I was staring at a child's crotch and think I saw a bulge" is not an emergency.

That’s not how it works. The events and individual heats shouldn’t suddenly be mixed gender because someone decided to change their entry at the last minute. That’s not fair to the other swimmers. Is there a rule that says you can change or sex or age at the last minute?

How is that question relevant? Is there any evidence this kid previously swam as a boy? I find it hard to believe that Luis knows that about this child.

When someone steps forward to say that Luis was wrong all along then we’ll know, but the silence is deafening right now.

Why should anyone step forward.

So as a marshall, all I have to do is randomly pick any kid in the crowd and insist that they are a different gender than they claim and the parents would then have to step up to show that I am wrong?

Where does this end? Can I randomly pick a kid and claim they are too tall for their age and the parents would have to provide proof of their age?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

Who are you to know whether they did?? It was the opposing team. They very well may have had a discussion with that teams coaches, that seems really likely. That is why self righteous egotistical jerks without all the information don’t need to come in, “scan” children’s bodies, make assumptions, and embarrass children in a mini meet that isn’t even a real competition. That is about pride and politics and nothing else. It was cruel and self centered. As others have said intersex is a medical condition. God forbid this child has that. And if gender dysphoria is what they are struggling with they deserve to be treated like a child and not shamed as well. It is not your place.

I am a new poster and like others Luis, I completely and unequivocally disagree with how you approached this. Under NO circumstances was this an appropriate response in front of a child. If you have an issue or a question of policy bring it up with the adults after the event.

Doesn’t sound like they gave an alert to the participants that it was now a mixed gender event. Shouldn’t the participants know what kind of event they are participating in when they thought they signed up for segregated sex?

What alert do you think was needed? It hasn’t even been established that the kid was a boy. But neither Luis nor the posters on this forum had kids participating in the 8 and under event in question. Do you think they should have hired a sky writer? Or just made sure to alert the most hateful marshal?

It’s a bait and switch if you thought you had your kid signed up for a certain event and then it changed. It’s fine if you sign your kid up for co-ed sports but not ok to arbitrarily decide the sports are co-ed after the fact if that’s not what you paid for.

If someone went to the league after this meet and asked for a refund because they were pulling their kid, I think the response would have been very different. When you don't get what you signed up for, getting your money back is a reasonable remedy. But if a restaurant is out of my preferred food, and I respond by speaking in a heated tone, using profanity, and writing on the menu posted in the window, I should not feel wronged when I am banned.

Luis and his antics aside, just giving you chicken when you ordered fish is not a suitable substitution without letting you know first. Rules shouldn’t be bent on the fly for Luis or anyone. We all know what the rules are and conduct is one of them. Is everyone being held accountable or just Luis?

There are a variety of reasonable responses if you ordered fish and [think you may have] got chicken. Cursing and writing on a paper that didn't belong to you are not among them. If you did that, the restaurant might reasonably ask you to leave and prohibit you from returning. Even if you were unusually affected by the potential swap (and there is no indication Luis was) there are ways to reduce the chances of it happening again or to be compensated for any harm that it caused you other than, say, chucking your plate on the floor and stalking off to the kitchen to yell at the expediter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

Who are you to know whether they did?? It was the opposing team. They very well may have had a discussion with that teams coaches, that seems really likely. That is why self righteous egotistical jerks without all the information don’t need to come in, “scan” children’s bodies, make assumptions, and embarrass children in a mini meet that isn’t even a real competition. That is about pride and politics and nothing else. It was cruel and self centered. As others have said intersex is a medical condition. God forbid this child has that. And if gender dysphoria is what they are struggling with they deserve to be treated like a child and not shamed as well. It is not your place.

I am a new poster and like others Luis, I completely and unequivocally disagree with how you approached this. Under NO circumstances was this an appropriate response in front of a child. If you have an issue or a question of policy bring it up with the adults after the event.

Doesn’t sound like they gave an alert to the participants that it was now a mixed gender event. Shouldn’t the participants know what kind of event they are participating in when they thought they signed up for segregated sex?

Weighing the harm to the child you questioned (whether you were right or wrong about their private parts) versus any potential harms to the kids swimming against that child, no. The meet itself was a mixed-gender event both in terms of participants and spectators; if someone was concerned about being seen in a bathing suit by a member of the opposite sex, they wouldn't have been there. People were not desperately in need of your opinion about the sex of one of the swimmers. An alert is for fire, lightning, improper chemical balance in the pool, someone choking, or other emergencies. "I was staring at a child's crotch and think I saw a bulge" is not an emergency.

That’s not how it works. The events and individual heats shouldn’t suddenly be mixed gender because someone decided to change their entry at the last minute. That’s not fair to the other swimmers. Is there a rule that says you can change or sex or age at the last minute?

How is that question relevant? Is there any evidence this kid previously swam as a boy? I find it hard to believe that Luis knows that about this child.

When someone steps forward to say that Luis was wrong all along then we’ll know, but the silence is deafening right now.

Why should anyone step forward.

So as a marshall, all I have to do is randomly pick any kid in the crowd and insist that they are a different gender than they claim and the parents would then have to step up to show that I am wrong?

Where does this end? Can I randomly pick a kid and claim they are too tall for their age and the parents would have to provide proof of their age?

To bask in the limelight of the great injustice to their family. To blame the pool and sue them for emotional distress. People live for this type of drama and the ensuing payoff.

[Anonymous]

Was there even an opposing team? Someone brought up that there was an opposing team, but it sounds like it was just an internal event by this particular pool. Specifically for kids 10 and under.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your argument holds some merit from a broad perspective—it’s reasonable to suggest that boys might have a biological advantage in certain athletic events. However, when we look at the actual performance data from NVSL 2025 for the 9–10 age group in the 25-meter butterfly, the gap is far smaller than one might assume.

An analysis of the top 100 times for boys and girls reveals that boys’ average time is just 0.0529 seconds faster than girls’. That’s a mere five-hundredths of a second—a difference so small it’s essentially negligible in the context of summer league swimming.

Here’s a detailed breakdown:

| Tier | Girls’ Avg Time | Boys’ Avg Time | Difference (Girls - Boys) |
| ------- | ---------------- | --------------- | -------------------------- |
| Top 25 | 16.53 s | 16.62 s | -0.087 s |
| Top 50 | 17.14 s | 17.21 s | -0.067 s |
| Top 75 | 17.59 s | 17.63 s | -0.040 s |
| Top 100 | 17.95 s | 18.01 s | -0.053 s |

As the data shows, girls and boys are almost evenly matched, even at the very top. The gender-based performance gap becomes even smaller as the sample size increases, demonstrating that, at this age and in this event, any perceived advantage is statistically insignificant.

Commentary on Your Conduct at the Meet

Regarding how this issue was raised, your behavior, as described in your post, was entirely inappropriate—particularly at a Mini Meet designed to prioritize fun, inclusion, and growth. As a Marshal, your responsibility is to ensure safety and order, not to confront families or unilaterally enforce gender classifications.

Publicly confronting a child’s family, making baseless accusations, and later annotating meet result sheets with the word “boy” showed poor judgment and a serious lack of professionalism. That this occurred in a low-stakes developmental meet only underscores how disproportionate your actions were.

The Board’s decision to suspend your membership is understandable. Frankly, you should consider issuing a formal apology—not only to the participating teams but also to the child and family you targeted. There are respectful and appropriate ways to address concerns, but your approach was neither. Take this as a learning opportunity to reflect and grow from this mistake.

They should make all meets coed for those 10 and under. If there is no difference in times, there is no need for sex segregation.

Often they do because of number of lanes in the pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

Who are you to know whether they did?? It was the opposing team. They very well may have had a discussion with that teams coaches, that seems really likely. That is why self righteous egotistical jerks without all the information don’t need to come in, “scan” children’s bodies, make assumptions, and embarrass children in a mini meet that isn’t even a real competition. That is about pride and politics and nothing else. It was cruel and self centered. As others have said intersex is a medical condition. God forbid this child has that. And if gender dysphoria is what they are struggling with they deserve to be treated like a child and not shamed as well. It is not your place.

I am a new poster and like others Luis, I completely and unequivocally disagree with how you approached this. Under NO circumstances was this an appropriate response in front of a child. If you have an issue or a question of policy bring it up with the adults after the event.

Doesn’t sound like they gave an alert to the participants that it was now a mixed gender event. Shouldn’t the participants know what kind of event they are participating in when they thought they signed up for segregated sex?

What alert do you think was needed? It hasn’t even been established that the kid was a boy. But neither Luis nor the posters on this forum had kids participating in the 8 and under event in question. Do you think they should have hired a sky writer? Or just made sure to alert the most hateful marshal?

It’s a bait and switch if you thought you had your kid signed up for a certain event and then it changed. It’s fine if you sign your kid up for co-ed sports but not ok to arbitrarily decide the sports are co-ed after the fact if that’s not what you paid for.

If someone went to the league after this meet and asked for a refund because they were pulling their kid, I think the response would have been very different. When you don't get what you signed up for, getting your money back is a reasonable remedy. But if a restaurant is out of my preferred food, and I respond by speaking in a heated tone, using profanity, and writing on the menu posted in the window, I should not feel wronged when I am banned.

Luis and his antics aside, just giving you chicken when you ordered fish is not a suitable substitution without letting you know first. Rules shouldn’t be bent on the fly for Luis or anyone. We all know what the rules are and conduct is one of them. Is everyone being held accountable or just Luis?

There are a variety of reasonable responses if you ordered fish and [think you may have] got chicken. Cursing and writing on a paper that didn't belong to you are not among them. If you did that, the restaurant might reasonably ask you to leave and prohibit you from returning. Even if you were unusually affected by the potential swap (and there is no indication Luis was) there are ways to reduce the chances of it happening again or to be compensated for any harm that it caused you other than, say, chucking your plate on the floor and stalking off to the kitchen to yell at the expediter.

Those are all on the lone diner. What about the restaurant? In this case the swimmer was winning the races, what about the kid who came in 2nd place instead of first and every girl after her? You don’t consider that a harm? Luis is not the only person affected. Every swimmer in those races was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

Who are you to know whether they did?? It was the opposing team. They very well may have had a discussion with that teams coaches, that seems really likely. That is why self righteous egotistical jerks without all the information don’t need to come in, “scan” children’s bodies, make assumptions, and embarrass children in a mini meet that isn’t even a real competition. That is about pride and politics and nothing else. It was cruel and self centered. As others have said intersex is a medical condition. God forbid this child has that. And if gender dysphoria is what they are struggling with they deserve to be treated like a child and not shamed as well. It is not your place.

I am a new poster and like others Luis, I completely and unequivocally disagree with how you approached this. Under NO circumstances was this an appropriate response in front of a child. If you have an issue or a question of policy bring it up with the adults after the event.

Doesn’t sound like they gave an alert to the participants that it was now a mixed gender event. Shouldn’t the participants know what kind of event they are participating in when they thought they signed up for segregated sex?

Weighing the harm to the child you questioned (whether you were right or wrong about their private parts) versus any potential harms to the kids swimming against that child, no. The meet itself was a mixed-gender event both in terms of participants and spectators; if someone was concerned about being seen in a bathing suit by a member of the opposite sex, they wouldn't have been there. People were not desperately in need of your opinion about the sex of one of the swimmers. An alert is for fire, lightning, improper chemical balance in the pool, someone choking, or other emergencies. "I was staring at a child's crotch and think I saw a bulge" is not an emergency.

That’s not how it works. The events and individual heats shouldn’t suddenly be mixed gender because someone decided to change their entry at the last minute. That’s not fair to the other swimmers. Is there a rule that says you can change or sex or age at the last minute?

Apparently YOU don't know how things work! This was a mini-meet. At B meets and other friendly fun meets, including b meets, our NVSL frequently decide to combine girls and boys heats in the interest of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While the child in the story is not mine, I do have a male 8u that participates in a ffx county NVSL swim league.

Since he was 2 he’s been obsessed with dresses/princesses/more categorically “girly” things. He wore dresses to preK. As he’s gotten older, he’s realized kids will make fun of him so now when he’s out and about, he dresses like any other “boy”. I know this likely isn’t the end of a journey for us. He may turn out cis, may be gay, may be trans.

While admittedly I’m a democrat and supportive of trans kids/trans rights, it’s much harder when it could be your own kid realizing the world isn’t kind to kids who are different.

What would you do if from the age of 2 your child came home bawling everyday that his friends who are girls could wear dresses and he couldn’t? That he wishes he wasn’t alive?

You don’t know this child, you don’t know the family. Neither do I. You don’t need to know the situation to be respectful. You told the referee and that’s where this should have stopped.

For the record, if my kid winds up trans I don’t think he should be swimming with girls.

I think he should be allowed to swim with boys but wear the girls suit (which im pretty sure isn’t allowed currently).

Honest response: No 2 year old makes statements that "he wishes he wasn't alive." I'm sorry, PP, I simply do not believe this.

And to your question, I would have guided him from the beginning. Boys do not wear dresses. End of story. Want some ice cream?

Actually, boys can wear dresses if they want.
The clothing I wear doesn’t make me (or anyone else) a girl or a boy.
Want some ice cream?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

Who are you to know whether they did?? It was the opposing team. They very well may have had a discussion with that teams coaches, that seems really likely. That is why self righteous egotistical jerks without all the information don’t need to come in, “scan” children’s bodies, make assumptions, and embarrass children in a mini meet that isn’t even a real competition. That is about pride and politics and nothing else. It was cruel and self centered. As others have said intersex is a medical condition. God forbid this child has that. And if gender dysphoria is what they are struggling with they deserve to be treated like a child and not shamed as well. It is not your place.

I am a new poster and like others Luis, I completely and unequivocally disagree with how you approached this. Under NO circumstances was this an appropriate response in front of a child. If you have an issue or a question of policy bring it up with the adults after the event.

Doesn’t sound like they gave an alert to the participants that it was now a mixed gender event. Shouldn’t the participants know what kind of event they are participating in when they thought they signed up for segregated sex?

Weighing the harm to the child you questioned (whether you were right or wrong about their private parts) versus any potential harms to the kids swimming against that child, no. The meet itself was a mixed-gender event both in terms of participants and spectators; if someone was concerned about being seen in a bathing suit by a member of the opposite sex, they wouldn't have been there. People were not desperately in need of your opinion about the sex of one of the swimmers. An alert is for fire, lightning, improper chemical balance in the pool, someone choking, or other emergencies. "I was staring at a child's crotch and think I saw a bulge" is not an emergency.

That’s not how it works. The events and individual heats shouldn’t suddenly be mixed gender because someone decided to change their entry at the last minute. That’s not fair to the other swimmers. Is there a rule that says you can change or sex or age at the last minute?

How is that question relevant? Is there any evidence this kid previously swam as a boy? I find it hard to believe that Luis knows that about this child.

When someone steps forward to say that Luis was wrong all along then we’ll know, but the silence is deafening right now.

Why should anyone step forward.

So as a marshall, all I have to do is randomly pick any kid in the crowd and insist that they are a different gender than they claim and the parents would then have to step up to show that I am wrong?

Where does this end? Can I randomly pick a kid and claim they are too tall for their age and the parents would have to provide proof of their age?

To bask in the limelight of the great injustice to their family. To blame the pool and sue them for emotional distress. People live for this type of drama and the ensuing payoff.

I dont know whether the kid in question is male or female. But not everyone is as attention seeking as OP. This family cannot sue the pool because the pool did not do anything wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

Who are you to know whether they did?? It was the opposing team. They very well may have had a discussion with that teams coaches, that seems really likely. That is why self righteous egotistical jerks without all the information don’t need to come in, “scan” children’s bodies, make assumptions, and embarrass children in a mini meet that isn’t even a real competition. That is about pride and politics and nothing else. It was cruel and self centered. As others have said intersex is a medical condition. God forbid this child has that. And if gender dysphoria is what they are struggling with they deserve to be treated like a child and not shamed as well. It is not your place.

I am a new poster and like others Luis, I completely and unequivocally disagree with how you approached this. Under NO circumstances was this an appropriate response in front of a child. If you have an issue or a question of policy bring it up with the adults after the event.

Doesn’t sound like they gave an alert to the participants that it was now a mixed gender event. Shouldn’t the participants know what kind of event they are participating in when they thought they signed up for segregated sex?

Weighing the harm to the child you questioned (whether you were right or wrong about their private parts) versus any potential harms to the kids swimming against that child, no. The meet itself was a mixed-gender event both in terms of participants and spectators; if someone was concerned about being seen in a bathing suit by a member of the opposite sex, they wouldn't have been there. People were not desperately in need of your opinion about the sex of one of the swimmers. An alert is for fire, lightning, improper chemical balance in the pool, someone choking, or other emergencies. "I was staring at a child's crotch and think I saw a bulge" is not an emergency.

That’s not how it works. The events and individual heats shouldn’t suddenly be mixed gender because someone decided to change their entry at the last minute. That’s not fair to the other swimmers. Is there a rule that says you can change or sex or age at the last minute?

Apparently YOU don't know how things work! This was a mini-meet. At B meets and other friendly fun meets, including b meets, our NVSL frequently decide to combine girls and boys heats in the interest of time.

That’s not what happened here. What determines whether you enter as a male or femaie? Apparently it’s just what suit you put on that day. The suit determines who you swim with apparently.