IB at Kennedy HS

[Anonymous]

To posters asking about IB Math, the IB Math offered at schools in IBDP might be different than offered at the lottery regional or county IB programs. Check with your math department.

[Anonymous]

Prospective parents to MCP high schools should have a better way to receive clarity on what exactly each school offers. Is there IB level math for 9th + 10th grade students at high schools that offer IBDP (besides at county-wide IB@RM)?

[Anonymous]

People need to really understand what IB is in order for this conversation to work. It is not necessarily that IB is more expensive than a traditional school, it's that it requires more cross collaboration and a thoughtful approach to teaching across subjects. It's an interdisciplinary and global based approach to learning. The Diploma program culminates in an exam and paper that is meant to test that students have acquired a level of discipline, research, and critical thinking to make them global citizens.

The reason this works well in other countries is because they don't have every state, county, and school trying to make up their own curriculum from K-12. Also, they are typically done with basic education by 16, so those students pursing the Diploma program are choosing it in order to do advance study/learning/work.

This is why schools in the US schools try to make it a magnet program because they expect those kids will succeed in the Diploma part. However, that also makes it inequitable which is not something that the IBO actual promotes. So, leaving it as a choice for students to pursue the Diploma Program as intended in 11/12th grade(i.e local option) solves that problem. But, it still leaves the challenge that schools didn't provide the necessary pre-program rigor/teaching/learning that would support students being successful in the Diploma program.

The fix isn't making specific "pre-IB" class for certain students. It's for schools that have IB World designation to make sure that their full curriculum has the rigor and resources necessary to challenge all students and grade and support them appropriately, so they are prepared to make a choice on whether they want to pursue the IB Diploma program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is a rising freshman at Einstein and there doesn’t seem to be any pre-IB classes. However, the IB courses offered in 11th and 12th grade seem similar to the IB classes at other schools (from the written course descriptions and course codes).

I asked someone who worked in CO with a child at RM about the differences between the 2 schools IB programs, specifically in 9th and 10th grade. She kept saying that RM’s 9/10 courses are a different program (MYP) and made it seem like the 11/12 options are similar. I am still confused why one school has an application for IB and the other doesn’t. This makes me think non-application based IB programs are not legit

That person is confused or did not articulate clearly.

RM has RMS designated classes for 9th/10th magnet students - RMS English, for example. Those classes are ONLY available to IB magnet students. The in cluster non magnet students cannot take those classes.

The person in central office who oversees IB/AP is not an expert on either of these programs. It does not surprise me that that person gave out misinformation, presuming that's who PP spoke with.

Who is it?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Brand-new principal after the last brand-new principal got pushed out.

IB program needs lots of help. Don’t send your kid.

Why was last new principal pushed out?
What were the main problems at the school last year?
Why is there an IB program at that school?

The last principal was pushed out due to a number of issues, including safety and security at the school, staff dissatisfaction and poor academic outcomes.

The Regional IB program was put in place at Kennedy to attract whiter, wealthier kids who aren’t directly zoned for Kennedy in the hopes that those kids and their families would uplift the scores and standards for the school.

and this is why in the new regions, they will have Kennedy as region 4 IB, not RMIB, which is the longest running IB magnet in the county with the most seasoned teachers.

Is it off the table that they would have 2 IB schools in a region? Because if that is the case, then I think they will keep RMIB and retire Kennedy

Einstein has IB

Starting in 9th or 11th grade?

Starting in 11th. They used to have pre-IB English in 9th and 10th, but central office put a stop to that a few years ago.

Principal said at an open house that the demographic distribution in those classes was inequitable, leaving some well prepared and others not, and with many, then, having benefitted from the early enrichment, deciding not to pursue the later program, as it had lost its earlier tendency to offer higher-level coursework as the overall demographic changed. Instead of working in the cluster to build competency across demographics to encourage (difficult as these were student/family choices coming from middle schools across the DCC rather than any requirement that could be imposed), they went with dropping the 9th/10th courses in favor of the honors-for-all MCPS standard.

The Pre-IB classes were discontinued because the IBO doesn't allow schools to offer them unless they are MYP schools. It's a whole process high schools have to go through with IBO in order to offer the 9th and 10th grade program(me).

B-CC is MYP and still isn't allowed to offer them.

So what do students who want to do IB get for the first two years? And if there's no IB for 9th and 10th, are those students prepared when they enter IB in 11th, if yes,how do they prepare students for IB in 11th?

There are pre-IB courses. Students are more than prepared to enter the diploma programme in grade 11 at B-CC.

How does B-CC prepare students for diploma if posters are saying that there are no pre-IB classes at the school and that Honors English is honors for all?

All Pre-IB means is that students would take the prerequisite AP classes in Social Studies for example to prepare them for IB diploma track in 11th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brand-new principal after the last brand-new principal got pushed out.

IB program needs lots of help. Don’t send your kid.

Why was last new principal pushed out?
What were the main problems at the school last year?
Why is there an IB program at that school?

The last principal was pushed out due to a number of issues, including safety and security at the school, staff dissatisfaction and poor academic outcomes.

The Regional IB program was put in place at Kennedy to attract whiter, wealthier kids who aren’t directly zoned for Kennedy in the hopes that those kids and their families would uplift the scores and standards for the school.

and this is why in the new regions, they will have Kennedy as region 4 IB, not RMIB, which is the longest running IB magnet in the county with the most seasoned teachers.

Is it off the table that they would have 2 IB schools in a region? Because if that is the case, then I think they will keep RMIB and retire Kennedy

Einstein has IB

Starting in 9th or 11th grade?

Starting in 11th. They used to have pre-IB English in 9th and 10th, but central office put a stop to that a few years ago.

Principal said at an open house that the demographic distribution in those classes was inequitable, leaving some well prepared and others not, and with many, then, having benefitted from the early enrichment, deciding not to pursue the later program, as it had lost its earlier tendency to offer higher-level coursework as the overall demographic changed. Instead of working in the cluster to build competency across demographics to encourage (difficult as these were student/family choices coming from middle schools across the DCC rather than any requirement that could be imposed), they went with dropping the 9th/10th courses in favor of the honors-for-all MCPS standard.

The Pre-IB classes were discontinued because the IBO doesn't allow schools to offer them unless they are MYP schools. It's a whole process high schools have to go through with IBO in order to offer the 9th and 10th grade program(me).

B-CC is MYP and still isn't allowed to offer them.

So what do students who want to do IB get for the first two years? And if there's no IB for 9th and 10th, are those students prepared when they enter IB in 11th, if yes,how do they prepare students for IB in 11th?

There are pre-IB courses. Students are more than prepared to enter the diploma programme in grade 11 at B-CC.

How does B-CC prepare students for diploma if posters are saying that there are no pre-IB classes at the school and that Honors English is honors for all?

All Pre-IB means is that students would take the prerequisite AP classes in Social Studies for example to prepare them for IB diploma track in 11th grade.

RMS English which is only for IB magnet students at RMIB starts at 9th grade. Then they take RMS 10. RMIB kids don't take AP English unless they want to, but it's not in the pathway; they take IB english. Also, 9th/10th graders can't take AP English. Same for Gov, US History, Bio - though they are similar to AP classes, but I think the RMS courses require more writing.

So, I disagree with your statement. RMS English classes prepare kids for the heavy writing in the IB classes. A lot of the RMIB kids got their first C in a writing assignment in RMS 9.

[Anonymous]

How is it fair that there is ONE school in the county where students get RMS and no one else does, not even students at that HS that has the RMS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is it fair that there is ONE school in the county where students get RMS and no one else does, not even students at that HS that has the RMS?

Because it's a selective magnet program? MCPS does not have unlimited budget to offer every HS the same exact classes.

Or are you of the opinion that if everyone can't have it then no one should?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is it fair that there is ONE school in the county where students get RMS and no one else does, not even students at that HS that has the RMS?

Because it's a selective magnet program? MCPS does not have unlimited budget to offer every HS the same exact classes.

Or are you of the opinion that if everyone can't have it then no one should?

But weren't folks just saying that several other schools used to offer pre-IB classes and then were told they were no longer allowed to? Except at RMIB where I guess it's okay?

What extra costs are you talking about that would be involved in letting all schools offer rigorous English classes in 9th and 10th grade for advanced students rather than sticking them in "honors for all"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is it fair that there is ONE school in the county where students get RMS and no one else does, not even students at that HS that has the RMS?

Because it's a selective magnet program? MCPS does not have unlimited budget to offer every HS the same exact classes.

Or are you of the opinion that if everyone can't have it then no one should?

But weren't folks just saying that several other schools used to offer pre-IB classes and then were told they were no longer allowed to? Except at RMIB where I guess it's okay?

What extra costs are you talking about that would be involved in letting all schools offer rigorous English classes in 9th and 10th grade for advanced students rather than sticking them in "honors for all"?

+100. Honors should be meaningful as should on-level as should class for those not on level. If you want on level and non on-level students in the same class then English teachers are going to need less teaching load so they can plan and support accordingly or they are going to need Teacher Aide/Para support that can actually help (meaning real small groups, homework review, etc).

What extra cost? You mean buying books. I’m sure the county would be for that cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brand-new principal after the last brand-new principal got pushed out.

IB program needs lots of help. Don’t send your kid.

Why was last new principal pushed out?
What were the main problems at the school last year?
Why is there an IB program at that school?

The last principal was pushed out due to a number of issues, including safety and security at the school, staff dissatisfaction and poor academic outcomes.

The Regional IB program was put in place at Kennedy to attract whiter, wealthier kids who aren’t directly zoned for Kennedy in the hopes that those kids and their families would uplift the scores and standards for the school.

and this is why in the new regions, they will have Kennedy as region 4 IB, not RMIB, which is the longest running IB magnet in the county with the most seasoned teachers.

Is it off the table that they would have 2 IB schools in a region? Because if that is the case, then I think they will keep RMIB and retire Kennedy

Einstein has IB

Starting in 9th or 11th grade?

Starting in 11th. They used to have pre-IB English in 9th and 10th, but central office put a stop to that a few years ago.

Principal said at an open house that the demographic distribution in those classes was inequitable, leaving some well prepared and others not, and with many, then, having benefitted from the early enrichment, deciding not to pursue the later program, as it had lost its earlier tendency to offer higher-level coursework as the overall demographic changed. Instead of working in the cluster to build competency across demographics to encourage (difficult as these were student/family choices coming from middle schools across the DCC rather than any requirement that could be imposed), they went with dropping the 9th/10th courses in favor of the honors-for-all MCPS standard.

The Pre-IB classes were discontinued because the IBO doesn't allow schools to offer them unless they are MYP schools. It's a whole process high schools have to go through with IBO in order to offer the 9th and 10th grade program(me).

B-CC is MYP and still isn't allowed to offer them.

So what do students who want to do IB get for the first two years? And if there's no IB for 9th and 10th, are those students prepared when they enter IB in 11th, if yes,how do they prepare students for IB in 11th?

There are pre-IB courses. Students are more than prepared to enter the diploma programme in grade 11 at B-CC.

How does B-CC prepare students for diploma if posters are saying that there are no pre-IB classes at the school and that Honors English is honors for all?

It doesn't prepare them in school. But it has students who have gone through the Eastern magnet program, and students who supplement outside of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is a rising freshman at Einstein and there doesn’t seem to be any pre-IB classes. However, the IB courses offered in 11th and 12th grade seem similar to the IB classes at other schools (from the written course descriptions and course codes).

I asked someone who worked in CO with a child at RM about the differences between the 2 schools IB programs, specifically in 9th and 10th grade. She kept saying that RM’s 9/10 courses are a different program (MYP) and made it seem like the 11/12 options are similar. I am still confused why one school has an application for IB and the other doesn’t. This makes me think non-application based IB programs are not legit

What do you meaN by "legit"? RMIB happens to be a very popular and selective program which means that kids who are in it tend to have higher test scores than at other IB programs. But it doesn't make the IB classes themselves any different than those at other schools (except I think there are a couple low-demand IB classes at RMIB and not elsewhere, like the very highest-level math class.)

IBHL math had a full class when my DC was in it 3 years ago. But, yea, this is why if they regionalize the IB program, some of these harder classes like HL AA math will no longer be offered due less demand since the highest achievers will be spread out.

And that would be a shame. My DC is a dual math/CS major, and they said that IB HL math (AA) helped them in some of their higher level math/CS classes. I can't remember the topic, but DC said that when they were learning this topic in class, they remember it from RMIB, so that unit was easier for DC. They have a 4.0 in college (and in HS). DC thinks that class, and MVC, helped.

What is AA math?

There are two types of HL math:

Analysis and Approaches - more difficult, theoretical, more for math related fields
Applications and Interpretation - more stats related, for non math related fields

https://www.ibmath.sg/what-is-the-hardest-math-course-in-ib/

All IB programs are not created equal.

Kennedy doesn't have IB physics HL; RMIB does. Kennedy only has IB Precalc, per the course catalog. RMIB has that and IB HL AA, the hardest IB math class.

If they make the IB programs regional, the demand for such high level classes will be distributed, thus reducing the demand in the IB regionals for these harder HL classes. And that would be a real shame for the truly high achievers. MCPS would be short changing them all in the name of equity.

I'm so glad my RMIB DC graduated a few years ago. We moved here specifically for the high level programming with a good size peer group. Thankfully, my DC is now gone from MCPS.

DP and thank you for this.

Below are the 3 IB math classes B-CC offers. Is the HL
Version the more challenging version? I think it should be despite a slightly different name, as in junior year those students are taking AP Calc BC.

2082A/2082B. IB Applic Stats Calculus SL 2A & 2B
2062A/2062B IB Analysis Stats Calc SL 2A & 2B
2064A/2064B IB Analysis Stats Calc HL 2A & 2B

PP here. Sorry, I was confused. MCPS label of IB math classes is not the exactly the same as IBO.

Per my DC:

IB Analysis Stats is the harder math
IB An/App Functions at RM is 9th grade IB math, which is not the same as IB Analysis and Approaches

I honestly don't know how MCPS is categorizing these math classes. But, DC said that at RMIB, all the kids who are strong in math take HL IB Analysis Stats.

OK thanks. It sounds like B-CC does offer the more rigorous math track, though it has no pre-IB courses.

Does it have IB An/App Functions?

Here is the 12th grade course card: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1556jHAFThI9iv1Ob8pNa2UTmklQUkYa-VqOinsaNdyY/edit?gid=1912123422#gid=1912123422

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is it fair that there is ONE school in the county where students get RMS and no one else does, not even students at that HS that has the RMS?

Because it's a selective magnet program? MCPS does not have unlimited budget to offer every HS the same exact classes.

Or are you of the opinion that if everyone can't have it then no one should?

But weren't folks just saying that several other schools used to offer pre-IB classes and then were told they were no longer allowed to? Except at RMIB where I guess it's okay?

What extra costs are you talking about that would be involved in letting all schools offer rigorous English classes in 9th and 10th grade for advanced students rather than sticking them in "honors for all"?

I think that change came from IB who said the whole school must do myp ...which what happens at RM...at least on paper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is it fair that there is ONE school in the county where students get RMS and no one else does, not even students at that HS that has the RMS?

Because it's a selective magnet program? MCPS does not have unlimited budget to offer every HS the same exact classes.

Or are you of the opinion that if everyone can't have it then no one should?

But weren't folks just saying that several other schools used to offer pre-IB classes and then were told they were no longer allowed to? Except at RMIB where I guess it's okay?

What extra costs are you talking about that would be involved in letting all schools offer rigorous English classes in 9th and 10th grade for advanced students rather than sticking them in "honors for all"?

I think that change came from IB who said the whole school must do myp ...which what happens at RM...at least on paper.

Again, B-CC has all 9-1 graders in MYP (and its feeder schools are both MYP), but is not allowed to offer pre-IB courses per central office. This is coming from MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is it fair that there is ONE school in the county where students get RMS and no one else does, not even students at that HS that has the RMS?

Because it's a selective magnet program? MCPS does not have unlimited budget to offer every HS the same exact classes.

Or are you of the opinion that if everyone can't have it then no one should?

But weren't folks just saying that several other schools used to offer pre-IB classes and then were told they were no longer allowed to? Except at RMIB where I guess it's okay?

What extra costs are you talking about that would be involved in letting all schools offer rigorous English classes in 9th and 10th grade for advanced students rather than sticking them in "honors for all"?

+100. Honors should be meaningful as should on-level as should class for those not on level. If you want on level and non on-level students in the same class then English teachers are going to need less teaching load so they can plan and support accordingly or they are going to need Teacher Aide/Para support that can actually help (meaning real small groups, homework review, etc).

What extra cost? You mean buying books. I’m sure the county would be for that cost.

Principal cost would be the increased personnel required to reduce the class sizes to manage the differentiation. Costs, and then allocated funding, would be highest where highly heterogeneous classrooms exist.

Recall that a cost-cutting measure this past year was to increase the recommended class size maximums and to allow teacher attrition in association so that no teachers were forced out. (Backfill was reduced.)