It's all true

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP could have led with a more descriptive title and given more information on their own thoughts. If they can use this as a personal journal page that has nothing to do with anyone else why can't others?

If you want to use a dcum thread for your own personal thoughts, as op did in your opinion, make your own thread for yourself.

It’s respectful to let people have their own thoughts and opinions and feelings.

Rushing to tell op their thoughts are false because your thoughts differ isn’t respectful on any level.

You think you believe so - and yet, that is exactly what you just did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when atheists overrun this forum with their disbelief. This forum isn’t *for you*

I would agree with you IF religion didn't try to worm its way into MY life. I don't want to stand between anyone and their faith practice. But I don't want to be dragged into it. When religion is used as justification for laws and practices that affect me, then you've invited me in. When religion justifies and encourages attacks and oppression on others, then it becomes my business.

To be clear, I don't want this. I want you go to church, say grace, abstain from whatever your religion doesn't approve of. But you don't get to tell me what to do or not do based on your faith. Quit doing that, and I'll never have any reason to visit YOUR forum.

To be clear, PP, you live in a country whose very laws and structure are predicated on the fact that just about everyone, at the time of America's founding, was religious. As John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Which is why we're in so much trouble as a country now.

Lol. The religious people in this country are the most out of control not being moral and just being religious whatever that means. We are in trouble as a country because we have too much freedom and too much anger and blame towards others and too much influence with the rest of the world however we are not in more trouble than the rest of history. Civil War. Great war. Revolutionary war. We are nowhere near the level of problems of those days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when atheists overrun this forum with their disbelief. This forum isn’t *for you*

I would agree with you IF religion didn't try to worm its way into MY life. I don't want to stand between anyone and their faith practice. But I don't want to be dragged into it. When religion is used as justification for laws and practices that affect me, then you've invited me in. When religion justifies and encourages attacks and oppression on others, then it becomes my business.

To be clear, I don't want this. I want you go to church, say grace, abstain from whatever your religion doesn't approve of. But you don't get to tell me what to do or not do based on your faith. Quit doing that, and I'll never have any reason to visit YOUR forum.

To be clear, PP, you live in a country whose very laws and structure are predicated on the fact that just about everyone, at the time of America's founding, was religious. As John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Which is why we're in so much trouble as a country now.

Lol. The religious people in this country are the most out of control not being moral and just being religious whatever that means. We are in trouble as a country because we have too much freedom and too much anger and blame towards others and too much influence with the rest of the world however we are not in more trouble than the rest of history. Civil War. Great war. Revolutionary war. We are nowhere near the level of problems of those days.

Every day we are getting closer and closer to the problems of those days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a Christian for pretty much all my life too however the older I get the more I feel like I'm left alone and why would God want to punish me and make me suffer so much? I struggle with this every.second.of.the.day I'm still praying but feel abandoned by everyone.

A few thoughts for you:

1. Suffering is real, but it is not of infinite consequence. Either there is no God, in which case suffering is arbitrary and unimportant, or God is real, in which case He is greater than it. In other words, while you contend with whatever is making you suffer, try to keep in mind that no coherent understanding of the unverse can make suffering so important as to make it a suitable heuristic for determining the existence of God.

2. If you believe in God-- and I'd suggest to you that God is real and there will come a day when we see it was absurd to have contemplated otherwise-- keep in mind that He will not be surprised to learn suffering exists; we humans are limited in our capacity to understand, but He is not. So, trite though you might find it in your despair, embrace the hypothesis that God has a bigger plan.

3. If you are a Christian, and it sounds like you are, you should have an extra oomph of confidence in believing my second point. By His wounds we have been healed (Isaiah). We are strong in our weakness (2 Corinthians). The last will be first (Matthew).

4. As humans, we are limited in what we can experience. Our eyes don't see certain colors. Our ears don't hear certain sounds. Surely, there are sufferings God has shielded you from that haven't even occurred to you or perhaps that you could not comprehend. Be sure to know that there are blessings you would count if you knew you'd been given them.

God bless you and hang tough!

I'm not the PP but thank you for this. I am not sure what I believe in but I have faith though it has waxed and waned over the years. The older I get the more I see the meaning and wisdom that arises from hardship or thwarted desires.

You may see meaning&wisdom coming from hardship or unmet desires, but that doesn't mean there's a God.

PP and yes, that's a good point. I've gone through many phases in my life where I've believed, sort of believed and not believed. I have doubt. I have sometimes had certainty. I ultimately do not know. Lately I have felt more faith but I don't have OP's certainty. I do believe in being ethical and honest and that's not because of religion.

I do think God wants us to suffer. If we do wrong, we suffer. We also suffer due to actions of other people and events Otherwise why would there be a hell or the idea of redemption?

this is actually one of the biggest arguments against the existence of a higher power-- uncountable cases of the worst people never seeing any consequences for the harm they cause, and the best, most generous, hardworking, "godly" people leading the hardest lives and suffering daily.

Again, if you have to say "trust me, your reward/ punishment will come later, and no, there will be no proof" then I don't have time for it. Show me, don't tell me.

This is the kind of hot take offered by someone with basically no familiarity with the actual tenets of Christianity. It is one of the most basic principles of the faith that we all are varsity-level sinners. So the notion that the doubly or triply bad should deserve some sort of obvious temporal punishment above and beyond what others get is basically contrary to Christianity's premise-- we have all flunked out, and there is no point comparing GPAs.

But by this standard, there is no meaningful difference between Hitler and Florence Nightingale. No delta between a callous murderer and a teacher who shows love and grace caring for special needs children day after day.

I am absolutely willing to say I myself have flunked out — guilty as charged! — but I do think that there are appreciable differences in GPAs

DP. Here's the thing - you are both right about what Christianity says. There is absolutely, 100% a measurable difference is degree between sins. The Old Testament had more serious punishments for more serious sins encoded into Israel's civil and ceremonial law, showing that God thinks that too (assuming you'll grand the premise that God set up ancient Israel's laws). Jesus kept those laws and thought they were good.

That said, our sin is against an infinite, eternal, all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good God. That means that the degree of difference basically vanishes when you stack it up against the perfection of God. 1 million and 1 are meaningless when compared to infinity, you know? So we all equally deserve punishment from that vantage point. Yet from a human vantage point Hitler is so much more of a monster than Florence Nightingale.

And the only good news from the infinite vantage point is that an infinite, eternal, all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good Jesus was willing to take the wrath of God on his vast self for a moment in time, which equated to the eternal punishment of everyone whose wrath he took. That means everyone who believes in him has their punishment already paid for. Since God is just, he won't punish those people twice - Jesus already paid so nobody who believes has to. Because we love him and are grateful to him for what he has done, we try to follow after him and do good. Because he loves us, he makes us good in his time and his way. That's the good news.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a Christian for pretty much all my life too however the older I get the more I feel like I'm left alone and why would God want to punish me and make me suffer so much? I struggle with this every.second.of.the.day I'm still praying but feel abandoned by everyone.

A few thoughts for you:

1. Suffering is real, but it is not of infinite consequence. Either there is no God, in which case suffering is arbitrary and unimportant, or God is real, in which case He is greater than it. In other words, while you contend with whatever is making you suffer, try to keep in mind that no coherent understanding of the unverse can make suffering so important as to make it a suitable heuristic for determining the existence of God.

2. If you believe in God-- and I'd suggest to you that God is real and there will come a day when we see it was absurd to have contemplated otherwise-- keep in mind that He will not be surprised to learn suffering exists; we humans are limited in our capacity to understand, but He is not. So, trite though you might find it in your despair, embrace the hypothesis that God has a bigger plan.

3. If you are a Christian, and it sounds like you are, you should have an extra oomph of confidence in believing my second point. By His wounds we have been healed (Isaiah). We are strong in our weakness (2 Corinthians). The last will be first (Matthew).

4. As humans, we are limited in what we can experience. Our eyes don't see certain colors. Our ears don't hear certain sounds. Surely, there are sufferings God has shielded you from that haven't even occurred to you or perhaps that you could not comprehend. Be sure to know that there are blessings you would count if you knew you'd been given them.

God bless you and hang tough!

I'm not the PP but thank you for this. I am not sure what I believe in but I have faith though it has waxed and waned over the years. The older I get the more I see the meaning and wisdom that arises from hardship or thwarted desires.

You may see meaning&wisdom coming from hardship or unmet desires, but that doesn't mean there's a God.

PP and yes, that's a good point. I've gone through many phases in my life where I've believed, sort of believed and not believed. I have doubt. I have sometimes had certainty. I ultimately do not know. Lately I have felt more faith but I don't have OP's certainty. I do believe in being ethical and honest and that's not because of religion.

I do think God wants us to suffer. If we do wrong, we suffer. We also suffer due to actions of other people and events Otherwise why would there be a hell or the idea of redemption?

this is actually one of the biggest arguments against the existence of a higher power-- uncountable cases of the worst people never seeing any consequences for the harm they cause, and the best, most generous, hardworking, "godly" people leading the hardest lives and suffering daily.

Again, if you have to say "trust me, your reward/ punishment will come later, and no, there will be no proof" then I don't have time for it. Show me, don't tell me.

This is the kind of hot take offered by someone with basically no familiarity with the actual tenets of Christianity. It is one of the most basic principles of the faith that we all are varsity-level sinners. So the notion that the doubly or triply bad should deserve some sort of obvious temporal punishment above and beyond what others get is basically contrary to Christianity's premise-- we have all flunked out, and there is no point comparing GPAs.

But by this standard, there is no meaningful difference between Hitler and Florence Nightingale. No delta between a callous murderer and a teacher who shows love and grace caring for special needs children day after day.

I am absolutely willing to say I myself have flunked out — guilty as charged! — but I do think that there are appreciable differences in GPAs

DP. Here's the thing - you are both right about what Christianity says. There is absolutely, 100% a measurable difference is degree between sins. The Old Testament had more serious punishments for more serious sins encoded into Israel's civil and ceremonial law, showing that God thinks that too (assuming you'll grand the premise that God set up ancient Israel's laws). Jesus kept those laws and thought they were good.

That said, our sin is against an infinite, eternal, all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good God. That means that the degree of difference basically vanishes when you stack it up against the perfection of God. 1 million and 1 are meaningless when compared to infinity, you know? So we all equally deserve punishment from that vantage point. Yet from a human vantage point Hitler is so much more of a monster than Florence Nightingale.

And the only good news from the infinite vantage point is that an infinite, eternal, all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good Jesus was willing to take the wrath of God on his vast self for a moment in time, which equated to the eternal punishment of everyone whose wrath he took. That means everyone who believes in him has their punishment already paid for. Since God is just, he won't punish those people twice - Jesus already paid so nobody who believes has to. Because we love him and are grateful to him for what he has done, we try to follow after him and do good. Because he loves us, he makes us good in his time and his way. That's the good news.

So your all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good God didn't know Satan would betray him and eventually corrupt his creation (mankind)? Or, he did know, and let it happen so that humanity could suffer and sin all so that he could sacrifice his son/himself to redeem them?

Sounds like a great plan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when atheists overrun this forum with their disbelief. This forum isn’t *for you*

I would agree with you IF religion didn't try to worm its way into MY life. I don't want to stand between anyone and their faith practice. But I don't want to be dragged into it. When religion is used as justification for laws and practices that affect me, then you've invited me in. When religion justifies and encourages attacks and oppression on others, then it becomes my business.

To be clear, I don't want this. I want you go to church, say grace, abstain from whatever your religion doesn't approve of. But you don't get to tell me what to do or not do based on your faith. Quit doing that, and I'll never have any reason to visit YOUR forum.

To be clear, PP, you live in a country whose very laws and structure are predicated on the fact that just about everyone, at the time of America's founding, was religious. As John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Which is why we're in so much trouble as a country now.

Lol. The religious people in this country are the most out of control not being moral and just being religious whatever that means. We are in trouble as a country because we have too much freedom and too much anger and blame towards others and too much influence with the rest of the world however we are not in more trouble than the rest of history. Civil War. Great war. Revolutionary war. We are nowhere near the level of problems of those days.

Too much freedom? That's impossible. I suppose you'd prefer that people like you ran everything, for all of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when atheists overrun this forum with their disbelief. This forum isn’t *for you*

I would agree with you IF religion didn't try to worm its way into MY life. I don't want to stand between anyone and their faith practice. But I don't want to be dragged into it. When religion is used as justification for laws and practices that affect me, then you've invited me in. When religion justifies and encourages attacks and oppression on others, then it becomes my business.

To be clear, I don't want this. I want you go to church, say grace, abstain from whatever your religion doesn't approve of. But you don't get to tell me what to do or not do based on your faith. Quit doing that, and I'll never have any reason to visit YOUR forum.

To be clear, PP, you live in a country whose very laws and structure are predicated on the fact that just about everyone, at the time of America's founding, was religious. As John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Which is why we're in so much trouble as a country now.

Lol. The religious people in this country are the most out of control not being moral and just being religious whatever that means. We are in trouble as a country because we have too much freedom and too much anger and blame towards others and too much influence with the rest of the world however we are not in more trouble than the rest of history. Civil War. Great war. Revolutionary war. We are nowhere near the level of problems of those days.

Too much freedom? That's impossible. I suppose you'd prefer that people like you ran everything, for all of us.

I would prefer that good people ran everything, despite their political party and despite their religion or lack of it.

[Anonymous]

What's the difference between a Christian, a Mormon, and a Scientologost?

Nothing, they are all make believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when atheists overrun this forum with their disbelief. This forum isn’t *for you*

I would agree with you IF religion didn't try to worm its way into MY life. I don't want to stand between anyone and their faith practice. But I don't want to be dragged into it. When religion is used as justification for laws and practices that affect me, then you've invited me in. When religion justifies and encourages attacks and oppression on others, then it becomes my business.

To be clear, I don't want this. I want you go to church, say grace, abstain from whatever your religion doesn't approve of. But you don't get to tell me what to do or not do based on your faith. Quit doing that, and I'll never have any reason to visit YOUR forum.

To be clear, PP, you live in a country whose very laws and structure are predicated on the fact that just about everyone, at the time of America's founding, was religious. As John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Which is why we're in so much trouble as a country now.

Lol. The religious people in this country are the most out of control not being moral and just being religious whatever that means. We are in trouble as a country because we have too much freedom and too much anger and blame towards others and too much influence with the rest of the world however we are not in more trouble than the rest of history. Civil War. Great war. Revolutionary war. We are nowhere near the level of problems of those days.

Every day we are getting closer and closer to the problems of those days.

Because of evangelicals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when atheists overrun this forum with their disbelief. This forum isn’t *for you*

I would agree with you IF religion didn't try to worm its way into MY life. I don't want to stand between anyone and their faith practice. But I don't want to be dragged into it. When religion is used as justification for laws and practices that affect me, then you've invited me in. When religion justifies and encourages attacks and oppression on others, then it becomes my business.

To be clear, I don't want this. I want you go to church, say grace, abstain from whatever your religion doesn't approve of. But you don't get to tell me what to do or not do based on your faith. Quit doing that, and I'll never have any reason to visit YOUR forum.

To be clear, PP, you live in a country whose very laws and structure are predicated on the fact that just about everyone, at the time of America's founding, was religious. As John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Which is why we're in so much trouble as a country now.

Lol. The religious people in this country are the most out of control not being moral and just being religious whatever that means. We are in trouble as a country because we have too much freedom and too much anger and blame towards others and too much influence with the rest of the world however we are not in more trouble than the rest of history. Civil War. Great war. Revolutionary war. We are nowhere near the level of problems of those days.

Too much freedom? That's impossible. I suppose you'd prefer that people like you ran everything, for all of us.

No, I think people get in trouble when they don't have to work. By too much I meant too much porn, food, alcohol, money, power. Elon has more money than most people in history comparatively. Your average person has too much access to sex. etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when atheists overrun this forum with their disbelief. This forum isn’t *for you*

I would agree with you IF religion didn't try to worm its way into MY life. I don't want to stand between anyone and their faith practice. But I don't want to be dragged into it. When religion is used as justification for laws and practices that affect me, then you've invited me in. When religion justifies and encourages attacks and oppression on others, then it becomes my business.

To be clear, I don't want this. I want you go to church, say grace, abstain from whatever your religion doesn't approve of. But you don't get to tell me what to do or not do based on your faith. Quit doing that, and I'll never have any reason to visit YOUR forum.

To be clear, PP, you live in a country whose very laws and structure are predicated on the fact that just about everyone, at the time of America's founding, was religious. As John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Which is why we're in so much trouble as a country now.

Lol. The religious people in this country are the most out of control not being moral and just being religious whatever that means. We are in trouble as a country because we have too much freedom and too much anger and blame towards others and too much influence with the rest of the world however we are not in more trouble than the rest of history. Civil War. Great war. Revolutionary war. We are nowhere near the level of problems of those days.

Too much freedom? That's impossible. I suppose you'd prefer that people like you ran everything, for all of us.

I would prefer that good people ran everything, despite their political party and despite their religion or lack of it.

What’s a “good person?” Who decides? Without Gods law, there is no “good.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when atheists overrun this forum with their disbelief. This forum isn’t *for you*

I would agree with you IF religion didn't try to worm its way into MY life. I don't want to stand between anyone and their faith practice. But I don't want to be dragged into it. When religion is used as justification for laws and practices that affect me, then you've invited me in. When religion justifies and encourages attacks and oppression on others, then it becomes my business.

To be clear, I don't want this. I want you go to church, say grace, abstain from whatever your religion doesn't approve of. But you don't get to tell me what to do or not do based on your faith. Quit doing that, and I'll never have any reason to visit YOUR forum.

To be clear, PP, you live in a country whose very laws and structure are predicated on the fact that just about everyone, at the time of America's founding, was religious. As John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Which is why we're in so much trouble as a country now.

Lol. The religious people in this country are the most out of control not being moral and just being religious whatever that means. We are in trouble as a country because we have too much freedom and too much anger and blame towards others and too much influence with the rest of the world however we are not in more trouble than the rest of history. Civil War. Great war. Revolutionary war. We are nowhere near the level of problems of those days.

Too much freedom? That's impossible. I suppose you'd prefer that people like you ran everything, for all of us.

No, I think people get in trouble when they don't have to work. By too much I meant too much porn, food, alcohol, money, power. Elon has more money than most people in history comparatively. Your average person has too much access to sex. etc.

Completely agree. Temptation abounds and the human spirit is very weak. That’s why we need God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when atheists overrun this forum with their disbelief. This forum isn’t *for you*

I would agree with you IF religion didn't try to worm its way into MY life. I don't want to stand between anyone and their faith practice. But I don't want to be dragged into it. When religion is used as justification for laws and practices that affect me, then you've invited me in. When religion justifies and encourages attacks and oppression on others, then it becomes my business.

To be clear, I don't want this. I want you go to church, say grace, abstain from whatever your religion doesn't approve of. But you don't get to tell me what to do or not do based on your faith. Quit doing that, and I'll never have any reason to visit YOUR forum.

To be clear, PP, you live in a country whose very laws and structure are predicated on the fact that just about everyone, at the time of America's founding, was religious. As John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Which is why we're in so much trouble as a country now.

Lol. The religious people in this country are the most out of control not being moral and just being religious whatever that means. We are in trouble as a country because we have too much freedom and too much anger and blame towards others and too much influence with the rest of the world however we are not in more trouble than the rest of history. Civil War. Great war. Revolutionary war. We are nowhere near the level of problems of those days.

Too much freedom? That's impossible. I suppose you'd prefer that people like you ran everything, for all of us.

No, I think people get in trouble when they don't have to work. By too much I meant too much porn, food, alcohol, money, power. Elon has more money than most people in history comparatively. Your average person has too much access to sex. etc.

Completely agree. Temptation abounds and the human spirit is very weak. That’s why we need God.

Individuals who need the fear of eternal fire to not murder or rape should maybe be manipulated to believe in the hellfire. The issue is that when whole groups believe their path is the only right way to exist, others bear the brunt of their madness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when atheists overrun this forum with their disbelief. This forum isn’t *for you*

I would agree with you IF religion didn't try to worm its way into MY life. I don't want to stand between anyone and their faith practice. But I don't want to be dragged into it. When religion is used as justification for laws and practices that affect me, then you've invited me in. When religion justifies and encourages attacks and oppression on others, then it becomes my business.

To be clear, I don't want this. I want you go to church, say grace, abstain from whatever your religion doesn't approve of. But you don't get to tell me what to do or not do based on your faith. Quit doing that, and I'll never have any reason to visit YOUR forum.

To be clear, PP, you live in a country whose very laws and structure are predicated on the fact that just about everyone, at the time of America's founding, was religious. As John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Which is why we're in so much trouble as a country now.

Lol. The religious people in this country are the most out of control not being moral and just being religious whatever that means. We are in trouble as a country because we have too much freedom and too much anger and blame towards others and too much influence with the rest of the world however we are not in more trouble than the rest of history. Civil War. Great war. Revolutionary war. We are nowhere near the level of problems of those days.

Too much freedom? That's impossible. I suppose you'd prefer that people like you ran everything, for all of us.

No, I think people get in trouble when they don't have to work. By too much I meant too much porn, food, alcohol, money, power. Elon has more money than most people in history comparatively. Your average person has too much access to sex. etc.

Completely agree. Temptation abounds and the human spirit is very weak. That’s why we need God.

Individuals who need the fear of eternal fire to not murder or rape should maybe be manipulated to believe in the hellfire. The issue is that when whole groups believe their path is the only right way to exist, others bear the brunt of their madness.

We weren’t talking about murder. PP mentioned everyday temptations that we all face- excess in food, money, sex, etc that can lead to harm. God teaches us how to deal with all of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when atheists overrun this forum with their disbelief. This forum isn’t *for you*

I would agree with you IF religion didn't try to worm its way into MY life. I don't want to stand between anyone and their faith practice. But I don't want to be dragged into it. When religion is used as justification for laws and practices that affect me, then you've invited me in. When religion justifies and encourages attacks and oppression on others, then it becomes my business.

To be clear, I don't want this. I want you go to church, say grace, abstain from whatever your religion doesn't approve of. But you don't get to tell me what to do or not do based on your faith. Quit doing that, and I'll never have any reason to visit YOUR forum.

To be clear, PP, you live in a country whose very laws and structure are predicated on the fact that just about everyone, at the time of America's founding, was religious. As John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Which is why we're in so much trouble as a country now.

Lol. The religious people in this country are the most out of control not being moral and just being religious whatever that means. We are in trouble as a country because we have too much freedom and too much anger and blame towards others and too much influence with the rest of the world however we are not in more trouble than the rest of history. Civil War. Great war. Revolutionary war. We are nowhere near the level of problems of those days.

Too much freedom? That's impossible. I suppose you'd prefer that people like you ran everything, for all of us.

No, I think people get in trouble when they don't have to work. By too much I meant too much porn, food, alcohol, money, power. Elon has more money than most people in history comparatively. Your average person has too much access to sex. etc.

Completely agree. Temptation abounds and the human spirit is very weak. That’s why we need God.

Individuals who need the fear of eternal fire to not murder or rape should maybe be manipulated to believe in the hellfire. The issue is that when whole groups believe their path is the only right way to exist, others bear the brunt of their madness.

We weren’t talking about murder. PP mentioned everyday temptations that we all face- excess in food, money, sex, etc that can lead to harm. God teaches us how to deal with all of that.

Individually. Not against others.