European Expansion: Eye-Opening, Frustrating, and Possibly Not Worth It - Underperforming employee culture

[Anonymous]

I joined a British company (tho based in US) as part of a turnaround and was shocked at the low salaries. We had US based exec assistants making more than senior professionals in the UK. Seniorish leaders making what I made a couple of years out of grad school. It had nothing to do with health care. US healthcare was a stipend on top of an already huge salary differential. There’s a somewhat bigger govt safety net there, but here there’s more disposable income to save and invest for your future. Before I left, we had moved most of the operations to Britain to save on costs although that creates less flexibility for layoffs (don’t get me started on the consultation process). It’s a poorer quality labor market too. I found you can’t really turnaround a company when no one really is motivated to work hard, and will think much harder about any kind of Europe based opps in the future — particularly the UK which is struggling mightily from a global perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait, people are just finding out now that Europe sucks in terms of work ethic? And you wonder why they have such loooooooowwwwww salaries. They almost never work, are lazy, and went to live off govt money.

And Americans think it'd be amazing to go live in Europe.. .... Yeah, have fun trying to live off 40% your current salary with double the amount of taxation.

I moved to Europe, and it is amazing. Everything is paid for, so any money I earn is just fun money— and I don’t have to work to earn this money. I just get it for showing up. This place realizes that life is short and gives you plenty of time to live it up.

[Anonymous]

When the tax ponzi scheme runs out....guess happy hours are out because of work life balance.

[Anonymous]

The trick is to earn $ and spend €…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Yes this is obvious if you’re worked with Europeans.

Liberal websites laud their social benefits and ample leave, but rarely talk about how salaries are is incredibly low or the lack of job opportunities.

It’s painfully obvious it’s only a good place to work if you want to achieve the bare minimum.

It’s difficult to achieve much if you don’t go to work.

Most American don’t make much or achieve much, only the connected Executive class make real money. Are you one of those or just a wannabe they have fooled into thinking it could be you too?

Statistically this isn’t true.

Median Purchasing Power Parity:

the median equivalised disposable income in 2021 (USD PPP) showed:
* Luxembourg: $49,748
* United States: $48,625
* Germany: $35,537
* United Kingdom: $26,884
* France: $30,622

What statistics were you looking at?

Seriously, Luxembourg? It is the wealthiest nation in the world; of course, it is at the top.

Try Ireland at €28,235
Spain €16,480
Portugal $24,877
Italy $29,431

Luxembourg is pure soulless city living. I don’t envy them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Out of curiosity, why is your company expanding in Europe? There must be reasons right?

I’ve noticed a lot of European companies buying up American companies. They treat us like we’ve treated the Chinese — a profit center where they can work the crap out of people with fewer regulatory restrictions. (Plus they don’t want the old school standard American things like pension because in europe that’s all done by the government). It’s shocking how many long standing businesses are now owned by European parents. I think there’s some benefit to being able to trade in Europe to having a European parent.

As Chinese American who worked for European companies, I laughed then cried then laughed more.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Working with our Europe branch has been quite an intense endeavor. As part of a large tech company expanding aggressively across the region, I’ve been leading hiring efforts for multiple new office locations — and I’ve hit a wall of cultural and structural friction.

Simply put: they don’t want to work long hours. They don’t want to commit. And they have a lot of demands — mandatory holidays, strict work-hour rules, protected leave policies, the list goes on.

Yes, salaries may be half the cost of U.S.-based employees, but in many cases, it feels like you’re getting half the output. And no, that’s not an exaggeration.

Here are some of the realities we’ve faced:

One employee took a full year of maternity leave, then extended it into a second year for a new baby — with no firm return date.
A male employee took one year of paternity leave, returned just in time for “mandatory” summer PTO — a month off, like clockwork.
In Spain, we’re required to offer additional vacation banks separate from standard PTO, and summer laws restrict work to no more than 5 hours a day.
New hires often start with 20+ hours of vacation built in. Day one.

The structure seems designed to protect mediocrity — not reward performance.

Ironically, our best hires in Europe have been Americans who’ve relocated, or folks from post-Soviet countries who still bring hunger, accountability, and a willingness to go above and beyond.

I get that Europe values work-life balance. But when that balance tilts so far toward comfort that productivity suffers, it raises a real question: Is it worth it?

If you’re trying to run a business, grow fast, or compete globally, these restrictions are more than just frustrating — they’re counterproductive.

No wonder the U.S. keeps leading. Say what you will about hustle culture — it gets things done.

I worked for a European Company for 10 years at their NY location. It was called "two butts one seat" approach to staffing. Between maternity leave, paternity leave, how long to fire someone and even if you hire someone with Gardening Leave rules could be 2-3 months before they start. Hence you had to over hire.

We had a women in our German Office who took max maternity leave of two years actually got pregnant with two more kids while out on leave. She left early and took max after birth of third child. My company had to hold her job for six years. Was funny, she had a desk at work, in phone book on staff list.

The European people were shocked that in NYC we can be fired at anytime, no severance required and with no garden leave requirements workers can also quit on a moments notice. They were shocked.

It is shocking, no? ...that people can be fired at any moment. You have illness in the family, kids in college, a mortgage, then you get fired. Then what? No health insurance, kids have to drop out, you have to sell the house. Is that a great way to live? I would find this a stressful way of life.

That’s why you have savings and a dual income household.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Out of curiosity, why is your company expanding in Europe? There must be reasons right?

I’ve noticed a lot of European companies buying up American companies. They treat us like we’ve treated the Chinese — a profit center where they can work the crap out of people with fewer regulatory restrictions. (Plus they don’t want the old school standard American things like pension because in europe that’s all done by the government). It’s shocking how many long standing businesses are now owned by European parents. I think there’s some benefit to being able to trade in Europe to having a European parent.

We are treated like machines in the US and it sucks.

European society has it right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Working with our Europe branch has been quite an intense endeavor. As part of a large tech company expanding aggressively across the region, I’ve been leading hiring efforts for multiple new office locations — and I’ve hit a wall of cultural and structural friction.

Simply put: they don’t want to work long hours. They don’t want to commit. And they have a lot of demands — mandatory holidays, strict work-hour rules, protected leave policies, the list goes on.

Yes, salaries may be half the cost of U.S.-based employees, but in many cases, it feels like you’re getting half the output. And no, that’s not an exaggeration.

Here are some of the realities we’ve faced:

One employee took a full year of maternity leave, then extended it into a second year for a new baby — with no firm return date.
A male employee took one year of paternity leave, returned just in time for “mandatory” summer PTO — a month off, like clockwork.
In Spain, we’re required to offer additional vacation banks separate from standard PTO, and summer laws restrict work to no more than 5 hours a day.
New hires often start with 20+ hours of vacation built in. Day one.

The structure seems designed to protect mediocrity — not reward performance.

Ironically, our best hires in Europe have been Americans who’ve relocated, or folks from post-Soviet countries who still bring hunger, accountability, and a willingness to go above and beyond.

I get that Europe values work-life balance. But when that balance tilts so far toward comfort that productivity suffers, it raises a real question: Is it worth it?

If you’re trying to run a business, grow fast, or compete globally, these restrictions are more than just frustrating — they’re counterproductive.

No wonder the U.S. keeps leading. Say what you will about hustle culture — it gets things done.

Which country restricts summer work to 5 hours a day? I’m not sure I believe that one.

Spain. 🇪🇸 it was the case when I worked for a Spanish company in the 80s. Summer hours were from 9-2, except August when we were out all month on vacation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:How many millions does your ceo get paid? I bet he can afford to give some up for maternity leave. I’m not at all proud that our ‘hustle’ culture means moms in the US return to work still bleeding from delivery and infant babies are warehoused in childcare centers. Get some perspective. Leading in what? First in making billionaires? That just makes us suckers.

NP. I agree that CEO pay is out of control. Business owners are one thing, but CEOs are hired by the company. They shouldn't be paid 100x what the lowest paid person on staff is.

But I thought 3m of maternity leave was reasonable. Most jobs really can't have people missing for longer than that without having to hire someone to replace them. I would have liked for job security instead of maternity leave. Let me take a year unpaid and then return to my same job. That would have been ideal for me.

Europe has a much more robust temp worker industry than the US for this reason. Companies WILL hire a temp to replace that person for a year or two while they are out on leave. Or, if the new mom only comes back for 50% of the time initially, the temp worker will cover the other 50%. "Job sharing" is incredibly common in Europe and makes for much better flexibility while still maintaining skillsets (relative to dropping out of the work force completely).

Say all you want about this flexibility, but it’s incredibly difficult to find a permanent job in many European countries for this reason. Not everyone wants temporary jobs.

There's no such thing as a permanent job in the US, given that employment is at will.

[Anonymous]

USA is for suckers, lol. Just wait till orange deports all immigrants. USA workers will be able to easily get that second and third job.🤷‍♂️

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of these happiness studies are a bit odd.

Here are the results of one where the U.S. is ranked 24th, just behind Germany and the UK, but well above France:

https://data.worldhappiness.report/table

What struck if that one of the factors measured is freedom, and the study ranks the US 115th in the world. That makes no sense to me.

Why? We talk a lot about freedom in the US, but talk is cheap and the rule of law including the Constitution doesn't seem to mean much currently.

[Anonymous]

My company did this too. You nailed it in your first post though - the company did it I guess because it saw it could pay employees half the amount it would pay US employees. But it didn’t factor in a) the additional costs of hiring employees in Europe, like the maternity leave, notice period, etc; and b) when people aren’t afraid they are going to lose their job at a moment’s notice and when the pay isn’t even that good anyway, people are a lot less motivated!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1.

European work culture has it right.

Not if you want to actually earn money.

Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.

Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US

If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.

But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.

Eh those studies are biased and heavily dependent on how people consider happiness and what their standard is.

so, Americans have more sh&+ but they are still unhappy, work too much, and complain a lot compared to those other countries. Got it.

Don't forget fat. And all that sh* is poor quality. Working 10 hours, commuting 2 more so you can buy polyester at Macy's and overpriced diabetes medication. Don't get me started on the quality of the housing.