Question on High Tuition…

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:But why is the case tuition is very similar across private schools in dc. Same average cost. Not sure.

Have you ever noticed that Mercedes BMW and Lexus all have cars in a very similar price range.? Why is it that Honda Toyota and Nissan are all in the same price category? Is this legal?

When you buy a Mercedes you don’t pay over 12 years and at the third year the price starts rising like crazy. Again. Private education is not like buying blue jeans.

On the contrary, what your jeans and your Mercedes and your private school have in common is they are all subject to the free market, and they are also subject to the very real cost of providing that product. In the case of a school, they all have to pay approximately the same salary to each of their teachers that a competing school will have to pay. There is a cost per square foot for real estate that is fairly consistent. And when school A wants to raise their tuition to 58k to cover their expenses, but they notice that school B is getting the job done for 54k, school A just might think twice and go to 56k which appears really close to the tuition from the other school. This is all free market stuff.

Yes. They are in the free market except that they don’t pay taxes like any normal corporation and they could pass those savings to the parents via lower tuition. Am I missing something?

You are missing a great many things. Too many to enumerate.

Such as?…..

NP here.

Every independent school sets tuition lower than the actual cost to educate each child

Independent schools receive no funding from the government. Older schools have a huge leg up because they have more alumni and more generations of family wealth to draw from. Just for example:

Sidwell, founded in 1883 $81.1 million
Maret, founded in 1911, $50 million
NCS, founded in 1900, $40 million

That's not the situation at most schools. Most are trying to balance a budget, meet the significant expectations of parents, and retain faculty. And all of this while jobs are disappearing and we're in a global trade war.

Agree. The schools you mentioned have an unlimited appretite for diollars, that’s why they keep raising tuition above their costs.

Nobody is agreeing with you. Everyone is trying to explain this to you. So here’s another try: There is a business model supporting every independent school so that they can stay solvent. They have to raise their revenue to meet their expenses. Revenue is tuition. However, it’s proven that the tuition revenue does not cover the expenses so they also fundraise.

The truth about endowments: they have to be hundreds of millions of dollars before they can truly ensure the viability of a school/business with a $40millon budget. Most endowment prohibit the use of principle so you have to have a huge production of interest. So the year to year business model/budget is everything. And even if your endowment was large enough to cover all of your operating expenses, that still is no way to run a business, and there is no school or not for profit that would do that. There is no value to anything that is given for free.

To begin with, I don’t agree with you. Second, yes you can always design budget that is higher than tuition. Revenue. That doesn’t prove anything. For any school you could also choose a budget that is consistent with tuition revenue. Third, private schools receive an obscene amount of subsidies from government via tax exemptions on a lot of things plus endowments. Fourth. A school can be expensive and that’s understandable. What is hard to understand is that school tuition grows faster than wages or household income. Yes there is demand for private schools, but there should be check and balances to ensure there are no inflated budget at schools. Is a 1 million salary justified in a school for 600 kids? Maybe but sounds off to me.

The opposite can also happen where you underpay your teachers, increase class size, let facilities run down, and cut programming. Then you’re no different than a public and your enrollment will decrease thus your costs go up and you’re in a death spiral. Read the SSFS thread.

Luckily, most private school administrators disagree with you.

Of course they disagree. No admin staff wants a wage cut.

But just to be clear. Also an alternative scenario could happen. The board could raise tuition 20 percent to buy a field no one wants. The board hires an unprofessional HOS for 1 million. The same person starts hiring his friends without any recruitment process. The biggest donors get access to the board and approve budgets based on their preferenced with disregard to the education of the kids.

Unfortunately these things happen because of passive parents like you.

Oh Lordy, it’s the Maret person. 🤦‍♂️
You don’t know anything about private school governance or administration. As a previous poster just said if you want to cut all the budgets to bring tuition to something you feel is right, there’s no point in having the private school because you’re just gonna have big classes, rundown building buildings and no programming.

These are hypothetical. Never said it is Maret.

You lost me at recruitment process, Maret person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But why is the case tuition is very similar across private schools in dc. Same average cost. Not sure.

Have you ever noticed that Mercedes BMW and Lexus all have cars in a very similar price range.? Why is it that Honda Toyota and Nissan are all in the same price category? Is this legal?

When you buy a Mercedes you don’t pay over 12 years and at the third year the price starts rising like crazy. Again. Private education is not like buying blue jeans.

On the contrary, what your jeans and your Mercedes and your private school have in common is they are all subject to the free market, and they are also subject to the very real cost of providing that product. In the case of a school, they all have to pay approximately the same salary to each of their teachers that a competing school will have to pay. There is a cost per square foot for real estate that is fairly consistent. And when school A wants to raise their tuition to 58k to cover their expenses, but they notice that school B is getting the job done for 54k, school A just might think twice and go to 56k which appears really close to the tuition from the other school. This is all free market stuff.

Yes. They are in the free market except that they don’t pay taxes like any normal corporation and they could pass those savings to the parents via lower tuition. Am I missing something?

You are missing a great many things. Too many to enumerate.

Such as?…..

NP here.

Every independent school sets tuition lower than the actual cost to educate each child

Independent schools receive no funding from the government. Older schools have a huge leg up because they have more alumni and more generations of family wealth to draw from. Just for example:

Sidwell, founded in 1883 $81.1 million
Maret, founded in 1911, $50 million
NCS, founded in 1900, $40 million

That's not the situation at most schools. Most are trying to balance a budget, meet the significant expectations of parents, and retain faculty. And all of this while jobs are disappearing and we're in a global trade war.

Agree. The schools you mentioned have an unlimited appretite for diollars, that’s why they keep raising tuition above their costs.

Nobody is agreeing with you. Everyone is trying to explain this to you. So here’s another try: There is a business model supporting every independent school so that they can stay solvent. They have to raise their revenue to meet their expenses. Revenue is tuition. However, it’s proven that the tuition revenue does not cover the expenses so they also fundraise.

The truth about endowments: they have to be hundreds of millions of dollars before they can truly ensure the viability of a school/business with a $40millon budget. Most endowment prohibit the use of principle so you have to have a huge production of interest. So the year to year business model/budget is everything. And even if your endowment was large enough to cover all of your operating expenses, that still is no way to run a business, and there is no school or not for profit that would do that. There is no value to anything that is given for free.

To begin with, I don’t agree with you. Second, yes you can always design budget that is higher than tuition. Revenue. That doesn’t prove anything. For any school you could also choose a budget that is consistent with tuition revenue. Third, private schools receive an obscene amount of subsidies from government via tax exemptions on a lot of things plus endowments. Fourth. A school can be expensive and that’s understandable. What is hard to understand is that school tuition grows faster than wages or household income. Yes there is demand for private schools, but there should be check and balances to ensure there are no inflated budget at schools. Is a 1 million salary justified in a school for 600 kids? Maybe but sounds off to me.

The opposite can also happen where you underpay your teachers, increase class size, let facilities run down, and cut programming. Then you’re no different than a public and your enrollment will decrease thus your costs go up and you’re in a death spiral. Read the SSFS thread.

Luckily, most private school administrators disagree with you.

Of course they disagree. No admin staff wants a wage cut.

But just to be clear. Also an alternative scenario could happen. The board could raise tuition 20 percent to buy a field no one wants. The board hires an unprofessional HOS for 1 million. The same person starts hiring his friends without any recruitment process. The biggest donors get access to the board and approve budgets based on their preferenced with disregard to the education of the kids.

Unfortunately these things happen because of passive parents like you.

Oh Lordy, it’s the Maret person. 🤦‍♂️
You don’t know anything about private school governance or administration. As a previous poster just said if you want to cut all the budgets to bring tuition to something you feel is right, there’s no point in having the private school because you’re just gonna have big classes, rundown building buildings and no programming.

These are hypothetical. Never said it is Maret.

You lost me at recruitment process, Maret person.

Just mentioning random corruption acts that you read in DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a private school. They can charge whatever they want. Only the people who can’t afford it are complaining about the cost.

Not complaining at all. The US legal system allows consumers to contest abusive practices by corporations. Nothing outrageous about that. Just curious if there was something similar in DC. In Arizona has being proposed. Nothing crazy.

Let’s start with the fact that schools aren’t corporations, but mostly non profits. Your comparison is just silly. You’d be better off comparing a private school education to a luxury purse. Private school is a luxury. Sure there are those affordable privates. But parents are choosing expensive schools because they want the expensive facilities, the cache, and connections. The market dictates how much this is worth to people. Private schools aren’t kept afloat by people complaining about costs. They are kept afloat by the rich. Rich people that don’t want a down-market, penny-pinching school where all the plebes go - just go to public then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a private school. They can charge whatever they want. Only the people who can’t afford it are complaining about the cost.

Not complaining at all. The US legal system allows consumers to contest abusive practices by corporations. Nothing outrageous about that. Just curious if there was something similar in DC. In Arizona has being proposed. Nothing crazy.

Let’s start with the fact that schools aren’t corporations, but mostly non profits. Your comparison is just silly. You’d be better off comparing a private school education to a luxury purse. Private school is a luxury. Sure there are those affordable privates. But parents are choosing expensive schools because they want the expensive facilities, the cache, and connections. The market dictates how much this is worth to people. Private schools aren’t kept afloat by people complaining about costs. They are kept afloat by the rich. Rich people that don’t want a down-market, penny-pinching school where all the plebes go - just go to public then.

A better comparison would a counterfeit purse, that is sold at a price similar to the original brand, and hence you would like to get the correct price for the good your are buying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a private school. They can charge whatever they want. Only the people who can’t afford it are complaining about the cost.

Not complaining at all. The US legal system allows consumers to contest abusive practices by corporations. Nothing outrageous about that. Just curious if there was something similar in DC. In Arizona has being proposed. Nothing crazy.

Let’s start with the fact that schools aren’t corporations, but mostly non profits. Your comparison is just silly. You’d be better off comparing a private school education to a luxury purse. Private school is a luxury. Sure there are those affordable privates. But parents are choosing expensive schools because they want the expensive facilities, the cache, and connections. The market dictates how much this is worth to people. Private schools aren’t kept afloat by people complaining about costs. They are kept afloat by the rich. Rich people that don’t want a down-market, penny-pinching school where all the plebes go - just go to public then.

A better comparison would a counterfeit purse, that is sold at a price similar to the original brand, and hence you would like to get the correct price for the good your are buying.

LMAO. That is the most tortured nonsensical comparison 🤣🤣🤣

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a private school. They can charge whatever they want. Only the people who can’t afford it are complaining about the cost.

Not complaining at all. The US legal system allows consumers to contest abusive practices by corporations. Nothing outrageous about that. Just curious if there was something similar in DC. In Arizona has being proposed. Nothing crazy.

Looking to Arizona for DC private school policy is apples to oranges. The reason why a bill has been proposed in AZ to limit tuition increases in private schools is because AZ has a fairly rare voucher system (they call it ESA) that gives thousands of dollars to families who request it to pay for private school.

The problem is that once lawmakers in AZ dropped limits for the vouchers and allowed anyone to get the funds, including people who were already paying for private school without the ESA voucher funds, some private schools raised tuition by more than usual.

This isn’t a case of AZ state legislators having a soft spot for private school parents and looking to cap tuition costs because it’s just too expensive. It’s because, in AZ, some schools said “oh, families are now getting $8,000 on average from the state to pay for tuition. Well, they could afford the price before they got these funds so let’s raise tuition by $8,000”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a private school. They can charge whatever they want. Only the people who can’t afford it are complaining about the cost.

Not complaining at all. The US legal system allows consumers to contest abusive practices by corporations. Nothing outrageous about that. Just curious if there was something similar in DC. In Arizona has being proposed. Nothing crazy.

Let’s start with the fact that schools aren’t corporations, but mostly non profits. Your comparison is just silly. You’d be better off comparing a private school education to a luxury purse. Private school is a luxury. Sure there are those affordable privates. But parents are choosing expensive schools because they want the expensive facilities, the cache, and connections. The market dictates how much this is worth to people. Private schools aren’t kept afloat by people complaining about costs. They are kept afloat by the rich. Rich people that don’t want a down-market, penny-pinching school where all the plebes go - just go to public then.

A better comparison would a counterfeit purse, that is sold at a price similar to the original brand, and hence you would like to get the correct price for the good your are buying.

LMAO. That is the most tortured nonsensical comparison 🤣🤣🤣

Not really. Some private schools that go bankrupt have some similarities with counterfeited goods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a private school. They can charge whatever they want. Only the people who can’t afford it are complaining about the cost.

Not complaining at all. The US legal system allows consumers to contest abusive practices by corporations. Nothing outrageous about that. Just curious if there was something similar in DC. In Arizona has being proposed. Nothing crazy.

Looking to Arizona for DC private school policy is apples to oranges. The reason why a bill has been proposed in AZ to limit tuition increases in private schools is because AZ has a fairly rare voucher system (they call it ESA) that gives thousands of dollars to families who request it to pay for private school.

The problem is that once lawmakers in AZ dropped limits for the vouchers and allowed anyone to get the funds, including people who were already paying for private school without the ESA voucher funds, some private schools raised tuition by more than usual.

This isn’t a case of AZ state legislators having a soft spot for private school parents and looking to cap tuition costs because it’s just too expensive. It’s because, in AZ, some schools said “oh, families are now getting $8,000 on average from the state to pay for tuition. Well, they could afford the price before they got these funds so let’s raise tuition by $8,000”.

That was good policy. Wonder why tuition is growing higher than the wages of most parents. Hopefully such a regulation could help.

[Anonymous]

Serving on a board where you do due diligence, take on committee assignments, etc is a significant amount of work.

Not every school has a pay for play system. Board members don’t run admissions. Board members don’t make operational decisions. If the governance committee does its job, the board of trustees will reflect the makeup off eg school and include alumni and community members who are experts in their professional fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a private school. They can charge whatever they want. Only the people who can’t afford it are complaining about the cost.

Not complaining at all. The US legal system allows consumers to contest abusive practices by corporations. Nothing outrageous about that. Just curious if there was something similar in DC. In Arizona has being proposed. Nothing crazy.

Looking to Arizona for DC private school policy is apples to oranges. The reason why a bill has been proposed in AZ to limit tuition increases in private schools is because AZ has a fairly rare voucher system (they call it ESA) that gives thousands of dollars to families who request it to pay for private school.

The problem is that once lawmakers in AZ dropped limits for the vouchers and allowed anyone to get the funds, including people who were already paying for private school without the ESA voucher funds, some private schools raised tuition by more than usual.

This isn’t a case of AZ state legislators having a soft spot for private school parents and looking to cap tuition costs because it’s just too expensive. It’s because, in AZ, some schools said “oh, families are now getting $8,000 on average from the state to pay for tuition. Well, they could afford the price before they got these funds so let’s raise tuition by $8,000”.

That was good policy. Wonder why tuition is growing higher than the wages of most parents. Hopefully such a regulation could help.

Supply and demand, maybe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a private school. They can charge whatever they want. Only the people who can’t afford it are complaining about the cost.

Not complaining at all. The US legal system allows consumers to contest abusive practices by corporations. Nothing outrageous about that. Just curious if there was something similar in DC. In Arizona has being proposed. Nothing crazy.

Looking to Arizona for DC private school policy is apples to oranges. The reason why a bill has been proposed in AZ to limit tuition increases in private schools is because AZ has a fairly rare voucher system (they call it ESA) that gives thousands of dollars to families who request it to pay for private school.

The problem is that once lawmakers in AZ dropped limits for the vouchers and allowed anyone to get the funds, including people who were already paying for private school without the ESA voucher funds, some private schools raised tuition by more than usual.

This isn’t a case of AZ state legislators having a soft spot for private school parents and looking to cap tuition costs because it’s just too expensive. It’s because, in AZ, some schools said “oh, families are now getting $8,000 on average from the state to pay for tuition. Well, they could afford the price before they got these funds so let’s raise tuition by $8,000”.

That was good policy. Wonder why tuition is growing higher than the wages of most parents. Hopefully such a regulation could help.

Supply and demand, maybe?

Corruption maybe ?

[Anonymous]

OP the DOJ is actively investigating at least one NAIS affiliated organization for something similar to this. If you have proof of anticompetitive scheme I would contact the DOJ antitrust division.

[Anonymous]

Clearly the equilibrium would be achieved when the tuition is such that there are no people in a waiting list. That’s not the case now. But the equilibrium of supply and demand would need to deliver a much higher tuition.

Now there are goods that typically are regulated like water electricity or gas. Nothing strange at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP the DOJ is actively investigating at least one NAIS affiliated organization for something similar to this. If you have proof of anticompetitive scheme I would contact the DOJ antitrust division.

Which organization?

[Anonymous]

There are some private schools that I would put them at the same level as Trump university in terms of quality and transparency.