Harvard Rejects Trump Admin’s Demands, Going to Court

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So dumb. “No government — regardless of which party is in power — should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue”’

The government isn’t saying that. No one is forcing Harvard to do anything. They have a billion dollar endowment and can do as they please.

What they can’t do is foster an educational atmosphere of harassment and expect the taxpayers to finance it.

The govt-university partnership for research was put in place post WW2 and is the basis of the innovation ecosystem of the United States. It has been extremely productive for America. If the govt wants to break that partnership by imposing limitations on the college, they are free to do so.

If the country doesn’t want premier research universities, we won’t have premier research universities. No university can afford to fund this on their own for the good of the United States.

What we won’t have is premier research universities where free expression is stifled. Those two things don’t work together. If you want creativity and big ideas out of people, you can’t tell them what to think like the govt is trying to do right now.

Free expression at Harvard is at 0%
They shouldn't get any taxpayer money with their multi-billion dollar endowment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The letter to Harvard contains two phrases that are concerning - ideological capture and viewpoint diversity. Neither of these are real things. They are weasel words invented by the Trump administration. Ask any Trumper “if it’s real, it should be measurable. What percent of the faculty has been ideologically captured and how did you measure it? Can you draw me a graph? When you say that there needs to be viewpoint diversity how are you measuring it? How would you know if you have achieved it? Would that mean that half of the Divinity School faculty needs to be an atheist? What percentage of the economics department at George Mason should be Marxist? Half, right?”

+1000 there is no need for an anti-vaccine viewpoint to be represented in the medical school unless it's about how to talk to anti-vaccine patients and their parents. Just like there's no need to have a professor who doesn't believe in evolution on faculty in the biology dept.

You need to look closer at the fraudulent science backing the vax industry. Esp the time period around 1986 when they shed liability because of the payments to injured patients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So dumb. “No government — regardless of which party is in power — should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue”’

The government isn’t saying that. No one is forcing Harvard to do anything. They have a billion dollar endowment and can do as they please.

What they can’t do is foster an educational atmosphere of harassment and expect the taxpayers to finance it.

The govt-university partnership for research was put in place post WW2 and is the basis of the innovation ecosystem of the United States. It has been extremely productive for America. If the govt wants to break that partnership by imposing limitations on the college, they are free to do so.

If the country doesn’t want premier research universities, we won’t have premier research universities. No university can afford to fund this on their own for the good of the United States.

What we won’t have is premier research universities where free expression is stifled. Those two things don’t work together. If you want creativity and big ideas out of people, you can’t tell them what to think like the govt is trying to do right now.

Free expression at Harvard is at 0%
They shouldn't get any taxpayer money with their multi-billion dollar endowment.

If free expression at Harvard was actually 0% then the administration would not have demanded surveillance on who says and writes what on campus. Have you even read these documents??? It seems like you have not

[Anonymous]

People need to understand that for years all these colleges have moved in a hostile manner against Jews and also Christians. This is on top of allowing aggressive treatment of conservatives. Remember what happened at Stanford and also years back at Middlebury.
This was not a one day let’s get tough. Colleges should be places of expression but the violence and censorship has been appalling and more people are for the government saying enough than against. I am actually surprised to see so much support on DCUM which is pretty liberal. Can you imagine what people think beyond our liberal bubble here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People need to understand that for years all these colleges have moved in a hostile manner against Jews and also Christians. This is on top of allowing aggressive treatment of conservatives. Remember what happened at Stanford and also years back at Middlebury.
This was not a one day let’s get tough. Colleges should be places of expression but the violence and censorship has been appalling and more people are for the government saying enough than against. I am actually surprised to see so much support on DCUM which is pretty liberal. Can you imagine what people think beyond our liberal bubble here?

So then you agree that this action isn't actually about protecting Jewish students at Harvard. It is about protecting conservative and /or Christian students on campus. I personally think that is fine. But the concurrent sudden stop in national policing action against ultra right extremist groups is not fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People need to understand that for years all these colleges have moved in a hostile manner against Jews and also Christians. This is on top of allowing aggressive treatment of conservatives. Remember what happened at Stanford and also years back at Middlebury.
This was not a one day let’s get tough. Colleges should be places of expression but the violence and censorship has been appalling and more people are for the government saying enough than against. I am actually surprised to see so much support on DCUM which is pretty liberal. Can you imagine what people think beyond our liberal bubble here?

Please don't keep repeating propaganda without actually knowing the views of the majority of Jews or Christians at these institutions. It's just like how the Russians believe Putin is trying to free the Jews from their Nazi oppressors in the Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard has hundreds of billions in endowments. They can support their own programs without 9 biillion in government funds.

Ok. And they will keep and retain all rights to their medical innovations, cancer treatments, etc., going forward. No more cheap labor for the government and no more technology available to them. Harvard can retain all rights. Public can no longer re rice the benefits or vaccines developed by this private institution.

Harvard is not the only does that in the world. Government can have better deal elsewhere anytime.

Trump decided to benefit big pharma. If you're looking to him to negotiate lower prices for drugs like insulin or obesity drugs, you are supporting the wrong party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard has hundreds of billions in endowments. They can support their own programs without 9 biillion in government funds.

Ok. And they will keep and retain all rights to their medical innovations, cancer treatments, etc., going forward. No more cheap labor for the government and no more technology available to them. Harvard can retain all rights. Public can no longer re rice the benefits or vaccines developed by this private institution.

Harvard is not the only does that in the world. Government can have better deal elsewhere anytime.

Trump decided to benefit big pharma. If you're looking to him to negotiate lower prices for drugs like insulin or obesity drugs, you are supporting the wrong party.

I don't support private school cartels that think they can do whatever they want.
People were lying that these private schools were free to do whatever they want since they were privates and don't take Federal money.
I'm in shock now that they have been taking tons of tax money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s put this in perspective. If a Harvard grad were to manage its endowment and earn 4.25% then that would cover the $2.2B.

So, send the money to help support public education and let Harvard do its own thing.

There are enough R1 public institutions to pick up the slack.

There are people on this thread who have zero understanding of higher ed financing.
Trump is eviscerating NIH, the CDC, and the NSF. Where do you think R1s are supposed to be getting their funding? Why don't you actually try to educate yourself before making nonsense comments. It's not just Harvard and private universities that are being skewered, it's all universities, both public and private, that have a significant research arm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So dumb. “No government — regardless of which party is in power — should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue”’

The government isn’t saying that. No one is forcing Harvard to do anything. They have a billion dollar endowment and can do as they please.

What they can’t do is foster an educational atmosphere of harassment and expect the taxpayers to finance it.

The govt-university partnership for research was put in place post WW2 and is the basis of the innovation ecosystem of the United States. It has been extremely productive for America. If the govt wants to break that partnership by imposing limitations on the college, they are free to do so.

If the country doesn’t want premier research universities, we won’t have premier research universities. No university can afford to fund this on their own for the good of the United States.

What we won’t have is premier research universities where free expression is stifled. Those two things don’t work together. If you want creativity and big ideas out of people, you can’t tell them what to think like the govt is trying to do right now.

Free expression at Harvard is at 0%
They shouldn't get any taxpayer money with their multi-billion dollar endowment.

Stop the false narrative that the government is just "giving" money to universities.

The government wants services/research from private and public universities that the government cannot do itself. The government puts out a request for proposals to the general population to get those services. Various university professors with expertise and resources to do the work submit proposals. The government reviews them all and picks the one they deem best to give them the services they need.

This helps the university because it attracts student who are interested in that area of research, and it helps fund the process of furthering that area of research deemed important by Congress. And it helps our country because the government is getting the results it asked for, in addition to attracting and developing the best and brightest in academia and research, which is a huge asset to the country. Destroying this process is very bad for the United States.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So dumb. “No government — regardless of which party is in power — should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue”’

The government isn’t saying that. No one is forcing Harvard to do anything. They have a billion dollar endowment and can do as they please.

What they can’t do is foster an educational atmosphere of harassment and expect the taxpayers to finance it.

The govt-university partnership for research was put in place post WW2 and is the basis of the innovation ecosystem of the United States. It has been extremely productive for America. If the govt wants to break that partnership by imposing limitations on the college, they are free to do so.

If the country doesn’t want premier research universities, we won’t have premier research universities. No university can afford to fund this on their own for the good of the United States.

What we won’t have is premier research universities where free expression is stifled. Those two things don’t work together. If you want creativity and big ideas out of people, you can’t tell them what to think like the govt is trying to do right now.

Free expression at Harvard is at 0%
They shouldn't get any taxpayer money with their multi-billion dollar endowment.

Stop the false narrative that the government is just "giving" money to universities.

The government wants services/research from private and public universities that the government cannot do itself. The government puts out a request for proposals to the general population to get those services. Various university professors with expertise and resources to do the work submit proposals. The government reviews them all and picks the one they deem best to give them the services they need.

This helps the university because it attracts student who are interested in that area of research, and it helps fund the process of furthering that area of research deemed important by Congress. And it helps our country because the government is getting the results it asked for, in addition to attracting and developing the best and brightest in academia and research, which is a huge asset to the country. Destroying this process is very bad for the United States.

Yes, he government is the paying customer. It's not obligated to pay Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So dumb. “No government — regardless of which party is in power — should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue”’

The government isn’t saying that. No one is forcing Harvard to do anything. They have a billion dollar endowment and can do as they please.

What they can’t do is foster an educational atmosphere of harassment and expect the taxpayers to finance it.

Sounds like you skipped the letter with the Trump admin’s demands. In the second link.

I literally quoted from the article.

No one is forcing Harvard to do anything.

Harvard is throwing a hissy fit because it wants to do certain things AND get taxpayer funds.

Doesn’t work like that.

You truly do not get it. There's a lot more at stake than Harvard. Colleges like Hillsdale are fine because they don't do cutting edge research that costs millions of dollars year in and year out. You are supporting the tactics of an authoritarian regime that is telling scholars and students what and how they should think, and allowing the mobs to take out people with whom you disagree. If you are in favor of these cuts because you are fearful of antisemitism or you think that Harvard is full of antisemites, you are foolish. Putin and Orban, and Mao all used these oppressive tactics. You're siding with the Devil, who will have no scruples turning on Jews when convenient.

Exactly this. Jews have just become a convenient excuse for repression and censorship by budding fascists and their right-wing toadies.

+1 and it's so ironic. If Jews think this type of tactic will never harm them, they have another thing coming.

I'm a Christian, and I support separation of church and government because at some point, we may get an anti-christian POTUS who wants to punish Christians. Never say never, as we've seen. These are unprecedented times. Never think the unthinkable can't happen again. Jews should know that better than anyone.

[Anonymous]

As a graduate of one of the most elite colleges, Harvard's complaints are hypocritical. They are very happy to comply with progressive mandates from the Federal government (the Fed has long used the threat of the purse to get universities to comply with Federal mandates, such as Title IX or affirmative action or sex/gender politics). But when the Federal government uses the threat of the purse in a different way, suddenly it's a violation of free speech? While the other mandates weren't? Wow!

Cry me a river. Harvard isn't that special. Like all progressive institutions, it is deeply hypocritical. It, along with other elite colleges, has lost a great deal of credibility and respect in the last 10-15 years. A Harvard diploma does not carry the weight it did in 2005. Harvard can do what it wants but if it loses Federal funding, few Americans outside the NYT readership will care, and that is what Harvard doesn't understand.

[Anonymous]

Harvard acted like it's above the law and discriminated Asians all they want.
Now it's acting like it's entiled to my tax money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So dumb. “No government — regardless of which party is in power — should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue”’

The government isn’t saying that. No one is forcing Harvard to do anything. They have a billion dollar endowment and can do as they please.

What they can’t do is foster an educational atmosphere of harassment and expect the taxpayers to finance it.

The govt-university partnership for research was put in place post WW2 and is the basis of the innovation ecosystem of the United States. It has been extremely productive for America. If the govt wants to break that partnership by imposing limitations on the college, they are free to do so.

If the country doesn’t want premier research universities, we won’t have premier research universities. No university can afford to fund this on their own for the good of the United States.

What we won’t have is premier research universities where free expression is stifled. Those two things don’t work together. If you want creativity and big ideas out of people, you can’t tell them what to think like the govt is trying to do right now.

Free expression at Harvard is at 0%
They shouldn't get any taxpayer money with their multi-billion dollar endowment.

Stop the false narrative that the government is just "giving" money to universities.

The government wants services/research from private and public universities that the government cannot do itself. The government puts out a request for proposals to the general population to get those services. Various university professors with expertise and resources to do the work submit proposals. The government reviews them all and picks the one they deem best to give them the services they need.

This helps the university because it attracts student who are interested in that area of research, and it helps fund the process of furthering that area of research deemed important by Congress. And it helps our country because the government is getting the results it asked for, in addition to attracting and developing the best and brightest in academia and research, which is a huge asset to the country. Destroying this process is very bad for the United States.

Yes, he government is the paying customer. It's not obligated to pay Harvard.

It's not (unless it is already contractually obligated to, which it is; in that case the terms of the contract and related regulations govern what it cad and cannot do -- obviously). However, because it IS the government, it cannot condition or refuse to do business with any entity on grounds that violate that entity's Constitutional rights.