This high school test retake policy is wild

[Anonymous]

If retakes are handled well, meaning that the kid has to complete some sort of remediation packet and then sit for a test that is completely different from the first one, the kid benefits from actually learning the material. The problem is that doing retakes properly adds a ton of work for the teacher.

My high school offered retakes 30 years ago. What tended to happen is that even the A students didn't bother studying the for the first test at all. Then, after seeing what was on it and the types of problems covered, they tailored their studying to what would be on the test, did the retake, and got an A. The "scouting missions" helped them learn much less than they would have needed to learn if they didn't have a retake and needed to study everything. I imagine it's similar today.

Kids are clever and want to spend as little time as possible on school while still getting an A. Schools don't seem to take that into account when they devise these policies.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They need to end retakes completely. It's an unfair demand on teachers and it makes GPAs meaningless.

Everyone on here crying about retakes are the same people who have their kids take the SAT/ACT 2+ times to improve and/or superscore. Is the score meaningless?

Now watch them twist themselves into knots to justify it.

I'm not anti-retakes, at least for certain grades. But I do think the policy of letting kids scoreup to 100% on retakes, rather than 80 or 90% is entirely unworkable for teachers and creates more anxiety and pressure and kids that will retake a low A just to get a higher A.

SAT/ACT should say you only get 1 chance but if you score below 1340 or 29 you can retake once, but only up to 1340 or 29.

Surely you can grasp the difference between a test kids take 2-3 times ever and that the testing body is paid for each time kids take it vs the constant year in year out dynamics of HS grades and the added work that pours onto teachers already overworked.

The arguments consist mostly of people saying a retake doesn't prepare the kids for the real world (which is false you can retake most anything), doesn't prepare them for college, creates bad habits, makes the A "meaningless," makes it harder to get into UVA and other coveted colleges, etc . . . no one complaining cares about the teachers, I assure you, except teachers.

Every single complaint can be said for repeated SAT/ACT and superscoring but never is.

If a surgeon makes a mistake, it's generally too late for a retake.

If a truck driver makes a mistake and crashes into someone, it's generally too late for a retake.

If someone is caught committing a crime, it's generally too late for a "retake."

If a trial attorney does a poor job prosecuting or defending, it's generally too late for a do-over.

If a homeowner forgets to turn off the power before changing an outlet, it's generally too late for a re-do.

There are countless other examples to discredit your claim that in real life, you can retake almost everything.

I promise you the doctor, truck driver, and lawyer could take the LSAT, MCAT, bar exam, Boards, and drivera licensing multiple times. But keep being loud and wrong.

Much Ado about Nothing – Act 1, Scene 1. Lines: 56

The point is retakes are not allowed in college, and by the time kids get to high school we should be preparing them for college. Also, if I'm hiring a lawyer or choosing a doctor, I want the one that knows how to get something right the first time.

My kids are at a school with a stupid SBG policy. I've seen firsthand how this leads to sloth in that it does not create an environment where kids cultivate organizational and time management skills. Instead, we have an increase in absences and lower test score. Everything FCPS is quietly implementing (retakes) and doing away with (homework) is the opposite of what kids need in order to prepare them for the demands of real life.

If you want your kid to have a decent education now in Fairfax County, you have to send them to private school. This was not the case before Covid. Fortunately, there are other places in the country that are taking the opposite approach. My nieces & nephews live in one such place, and these middle schoolers have homework, text books, and traditional grading at a public school. If every school was taking the FCPS approach, it would have serious consequences for the future of this country.

- just a parent with a kid that got a B at an SBG school, only to find out kid knows nothing about the subject.

This information is not reported and you will never know. Sorry to disappoint you. If you ask, they can tell you they passed on the first time, whether they did or not because there is no way to verify it. Chances are though, it's never discussed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They need to end retakes completely. It's an unfair demand on teachers and it makes GPAs meaningless.

Everyone on here crying about retakes are the same people who have their kids take the SAT/ACT 2+ times to improve and/or superscore. Is the score meaningless?

Now watch them twist themselves into knots to justify it.

I'm not anti-retakes, at least for certain grades. But I do think the policy of letting kids scoreup to 100% on retakes, rather than 80 or 90% is entirely unworkable for teachers and creates more anxiety and pressure and kids that will retake a low A just to get a higher A.

SAT/ACT should say you only get 1 chance but if you score below 1340 or 29 you can retake once, but only up to 1340 or 29.

Surely you can grasp the difference between a test kids take 2-3 times ever and that the testing body is paid for each time kids take it vs the constant year in year out dynamics of HS grades and the added work that pours onto teachers already overworked.

The arguments consist mostly of people saying a retake doesn't prepare the kids for the real world (which is false you can retake most anything), doesn't prepare them for college, creates bad habits, makes the A "meaningless," makes it harder to get into UVA and other coveted colleges, etc . . . no one complaining cares about the teachers, I assure you, except teachers.

Every single complaint can be said for repeated SAT/ACT and superscoring but never is.

If a surgeon makes a mistake, it's generally too late for a retake.

If a truck driver makes a mistake and crashes into someone, it's generally too late for a retake.

If someone is caught committing a crime, it's generally too late for a "retake."

If a trial attorney does a poor job prosecuting or defending, it's generally too late for a do-over.

If a homeowner forgets to turn off the power before changing an outlet, it's generally too late for a re-do.

There are countless other examples to discredit your claim that in real life, you can retake almost everything.

I promise you the doctor, truck driver, and lawyer could take the LSAT, MCAT, bar exam, Boards, and drivera licensing multiple times. But keep being loud and wrong.

Much Ado about Nothing – Act 1, Scene 1. Lines: 56

The point is retakes are not allowed in college, and by the time kids get to high school we should be preparing them for college. Also, if I'm hiring a lawyer or choosing a doctor, I want the one that knows how to get something right the first time.

My kids are at a school with a stupid SBG policy. I've seen firsthand how this leads to sloth in that it does not create an environment where kids cultivate organizational and time management skills. Instead, we have an increase in absences and lower test score. Everything FCPS is quietly implementing (retakes) and doing away with (homework) is the opposite of what kids need in order to prepare them for the demands of real life.

If you want your kid to have a decent education now in Fairfax County, you have to send them to private school. This was not the case before Covid. Fortunately, there are other places in the country that are taking the opposite approach. My nieces & nephews live in one such place, and these middle schoolers have homework, text books, and traditional grading at a public school. If every school was taking the FCPS approach, it would have serious consequences for the future of this country.

- just a parent with a kid that got a B at an SBG school, only to find out kid knows nothing about the subject.

This is not true. It is college and even professor dependent. Also, Yale and Brown are notorious grade inflators so schools like that don't need retakes. I went to Brown and my daughter did Yale undergrad and is not at Yale Law school. The idea that kids who are not yet in college need to be treated like they are to prepare them is asinine and not accurate. Some college professors do allow retakes. I had retakes back in 1994. Not many, but in 4 years I had 2 professors who allowed it.

[Anonymous]

High school isn't college. I'm tired of hearing that they need to be the same. There are tons of rules and policies that differ between the two. They should not be the same; they serve two very different purposes, two very different populations.

If you want to argue that AP courses should mirror college policies, okay, I guess (but even then I'd argue they aren't the same).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:High school isn't college. I'm tired of hearing that they need to be the same. There are tons of rules and policies that differ between the two. They should not be the same; they serve two very different purposes, two very different populations.

If you want to argue that AP courses should mirror college policies, okay, I guess (but even then I'd argue they aren't the same).

This isn’t the path I want for my own child. I don’t want the school to set low expectations that my child is supposed to magically overcome when she goes to college.

This isn’t preparation at all, and it’s only going to burn through more teachers at a time we can’t afford to lose them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High school isn't college. I'm tired of hearing that they need to be the same. There are tons of rules and policies that differ between the two. They should not be the same; they serve two very different purposes, two very different populations.

If you want to argue that AP courses should mirror college policies, okay, I guess (but even then I'd argue they aren't the same).

This isn’t the path I want for my own child. I don’t want the school to set low expectations that my child is supposed to magically overcome when she goes to college.

This isn’t preparation at all, and it’s only going to burn through more teachers at a time we can’t afford to lose them.

Plenty of private schools for you to enroll in or you can move. Bye!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High school isn't college. I'm tired of hearing that they need to be the same. There are tons of rules and policies that differ between the two. They should not be the same; they serve two very different purposes, two very different populations.

If you want to argue that AP courses should mirror college policies, okay, I guess (but even then I'd argue they aren't the same).

This isn’t the path I want for my own child. I don’t want the school to set low expectations that my child is supposed to magically overcome when she goes to college.

This isn’t preparation at all, and it’s only going to burn through more teachers at a time we can’t afford to lose them.

So when does it stop? Should 7th grade look like college? Kindergarten?

K-12 schooling isn't college. Kids can and will adapt to new policies, just like they did when they came from elementary to middle and had to switch classes for the first time, or went from middle to high school and had their first final exams. We don't need to make 10 year olds change classes, take finals, and never redo assignments because that is how college will work down the road.

There are two drastically different opinions on the purpose of k-12 school. It's either 1) To get students to learn as much as possible by the time they graduate or 2) To rank kids for college applications. Retakes help the first, and hinder the second. I feel like #1 is far more important though, so I'm happily willing to let #2 suffer a bit if it means my students gain more knowledge at the end of the day.

--math teacher and parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High school isn't college. I'm tired of hearing that they need to be the same. There are tons of rules and policies that differ between the two. They should not be the same; they serve two very different purposes, two very different populations.

If you want to argue that AP courses should mirror college policies, okay, I guess (but even then I'd argue they aren't the same).

This isn’t the path I want for my own child. I don’t want the school to set low expectations that my child is supposed to magically overcome when she goes to college.

This isn’t preparation at all, and it’s only going to burn through more teachers at a time we can’t afford to lose them.

So when does it stop? Should 7th grade look like college? Kindergarten?

K-12 schooling isn't college. Kids can and will adapt to new policies, just like they did when they came from elementary to middle and had to switch classes for the first time, or went from middle to high school and had their first final exams. We don't need to make 10 year olds change classes, take finals, and never redo assignments because that is how college will work down the road.

There are two drastically different opinions on the purpose of k-12 school. It's either 1) To get students to learn as much as possible by the time they graduate or 2) To rank kids for college applications. Retakes help the first, and hinder the second. I feel like #1 is far more important though, so I'm happily willing to let #2 suffer a bit if it means my students gain more knowledge at the end of the day.

--math teacher and parent

Students have plenty of opportunities to make mistakes in education. At some point, they need to demonstrate understanding and mastery. There are plenty of chances to revise and relearn prior to an exam: homework, class work, group work, tutoring sessions, etc. You blur the line when you don’t have true expectations, therefore deemphasizing the importance of all the formative steps before it.

I’m a teacher and a parent, too. I have a child in college and one in high school. I’m grateful my college student was held to higher expectations. She is at a college with firm deadlines, zero retake policies, etc. This environment doesn’t phase her at all, but she has dorm mates who are struggling to accept this. You think students will easily adapt, but aren’t we setting them up for a rude awakening?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High school isn't college. I'm tired of hearing that they need to be the same. There are tons of rules and policies that differ between the two. They should not be the same; they serve two very different purposes, two very different populations.

If you want to argue that AP courses should mirror college policies, okay, I guess (but even then I'd argue they aren't the same).

This isn’t the path I want for my own child. I don’t want the school to set low expectations that my child is supposed to magically overcome when she goes to college.

This isn’t preparation at all, and it’s only going to burn through more teachers at a time we can’t afford to lose them.

So when does it stop? Should 7th grade look like college? Kindergarten?

K-12 schooling isn't college. Kids can and will adapt to new policies, just like they did when they came from elementary to middle and had to switch classes for the first time, or went from middle to high school and had their first final exams. We don't need to make 10 year olds change classes, take finals, and never redo assignments because that is how college will work down the road.

There are two drastically different opinions on the purpose of k-12 school. It's either 1) To get students to learn as much as possible by the time they graduate or 2) To rank kids for college applications. Retakes help the first, and hinder the second. I feel like #1 is far more important though, so I'm happily willing to let #2 suffer a bit if it means my students gain more knowledge at the end of the day.

--math teacher and parent

HS math teacher and I completely disagree with you and agree with the PP.

A summative is when you get to display mastery, after many opportunities to make mistakes on homework and quizzes and remediate issues so you actually gain more knowledge.

The current policy means that a lot of students don't even study for the test and treat it as a first try, thinking they'll do better on the retake. By the time the retake rolls around, they're behind and now have to master old material while trying to keep up with new material that they don't understand because they never mastered previous topics we're building on.
Others may study somewhat, but treat the first pass as an opportunity to see what's on the test and then try it again since they can retake to 100%.

At my HS, it's abundantly clear that our middle school and some other high schools are wildly inflating grades because students come to us or transfer with extraordinary gaps in knowledge and high grades that make absolutely no sense given how little (or nothing) they know. I presume retakes are partly to blame for this.

We also hear from time to time about students in college being shell shocked by the policies they have to adapt to (no late work, no make-up, no retake, no curve, long and difficult assignments).
Just because you graduated from college doesn't mean you accomplished your goal if you had to drop the major you intended due to lack of preparation. Remember that 40% of college grads are either underemployed (meaning doing jobs that don't require a college degree) or unemployed.

[Anonymous]

FCPS just needs to go back to the 80 or if they really want to bump it up slightly to an 85. Retakes to 100 completely miss the point of the purpose of them. Why do they keep changing things and doing such a poor job at it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High school isn't college. I'm tired of hearing that they need to be the same. There are tons of rules and policies that differ between the two. They should not be the same; they serve two very different purposes, two very different populations.

If you want to argue that AP courses should mirror college policies, okay, I guess (but even then I'd argue they aren't the same).

This isn’t the path I want for my own child. I don’t want the school to set low expectations that my child is supposed to magically overcome when she goes to college.

This isn’t preparation at all, and it’s only going to burn through more teachers at a time we can’t afford to lose them.

So when does it stop? Should 7th grade look like college? Kindergarten?

K-12 schooling isn't college. Kids can and will adapt to new policies, just like they did when they came from elementary to middle and had to switch classes for the first time, or went from middle to high school and had their first final exams. We don't need to make 10 year olds change classes, take finals, and never redo assignments because that is how college will work down the road.

There are two drastically different opinions on the purpose of k-12 school. It's either 1) To get students to learn as much as possible by the time they graduate or 2) To rank kids for college applications. Retakes help the first, and hinder the second. I feel like #1 is far more important though, so I'm happily willing to let #2 suffer a bit if it means my students gain more knowledge at the end of the day.

--math teacher and parent

HS math teacher and I completely disagree with you and agree with the PP.

A summative is when you get to display mastery, after many opportunities to make mistakes on homework and quizzes and remediate issues so you actually gain more knowledge.

The current policy means that a lot of students don't even study for the test and treat it as a first try, thinking they'll do better on the retake. By the time the retake rolls around, they're behind and now have to master old material while trying to keep up with new material that they don't understand because they never mastered previous topics we're building on.
Others may study somewhat, but treat the first pass as an opportunity to see what's on the test and then try it again since they can retake to 100%.

At my HS, it's abundantly clear that our middle school and some other high schools are wildly inflating grades because students come to us or transfer with extraordinary gaps in knowledge and high grades that make absolutely no sense given how little (or nothing) they know. I presume retakes are partly to blame for this.

We also hear from time to time about students in college being shell shocked by the policies they have to adapt to (no late work, no make-up, no retake, no curve, long and difficult assignments).
Just because you graduated from college doesn't mean you accomplished your goal if you had to drop the major you intended due to lack of preparation. Remember that 40% of college grads are either underemployed (meaning doing jobs that don't require a college degree) or unemployed.

I think things like the push to have everyone take Algebra by 8th grade also comes into play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid just got his first test back and did well, but said most kids are retaking anything under 97 so that they can be sure they are in good shape in case the final ends up being hard.

This seems like it is going to push the highly perfectionist crowd to insanity.

I hope the kids that really need the retakes are doing it too.

Interesting that the teachers even allow for retakes if the students get over a certain grade. None of my kid's teachers allow retakes if the original grade is a B or above unless it is a test near the end of the semester where scoring higher would bump their overall semester grade up a letter.

Several of her teachers also require anyone who scores below a C minus to automatically do the retake. A few others require the retake only if the first grade is a D+ or lower.

The current FCPS policy is to allow retakes for any test grade. If your kids are in FCPS, retakes are allowed this year.

This will drive more teachers to quit. A total waste of their time to re-grade exams in the 90s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid just got his first test back and did well, but said most kids are retaking anything under 97 so that they can be sure they are in good shape in case the final ends up being hard.

This seems like it is going to push the highly perfectionist crowd to insanity.

I hope the kids that really need the retakes are doing it too.

Interesting that the teachers even allow for retakes if the students get over a certain grade. None of my kid's teachers allow retakes if the original grade is a B or above unless it is a test near the end of the semester where scoring higher would bump their overall semester grade up a letter.

Several of her teachers also require anyone who scores below a C minus to automatically do the retake. A few others require the retake only if the first grade is a D+ or lower.

The current FCPS policy is to allow retakes for any test grade. If your kids are in FCPS, retakes are allowed this year.

This will drive more teachers to quit. A total waste of their time to re-grade exams in the 90s.

No one is retaking tests in the 90s after the first unit. Once work picks up and grades start to level out, kids realize real fast it's not worth their time.

I've been doing retakes to 100 for years (like, 12+) and i always have a ton of high achieving kids want to retake the first test and then it's crickets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid just got his first test back and did well, but said most kids are retaking anything under 97 so that they can be sure they are in good shape in case the final ends up being hard.

This seems like it is going to push the highly perfectionist crowd to insanity.

I hope the kids that really need the retakes are doing it too.

Interesting that the teachers even allow for retakes if the students get over a certain grade. None of my kid's teachers allow retakes if the original grade is a B or above unless it is a test near the end of the semester where scoring higher would bump their overall semester grade up a letter.

Several of her teachers also require anyone who scores below a C minus to automatically do the retake. A few others require the retake only if the first grade is a D+ or lower.

The current FCPS policy is to allow retakes for any test grade. If your kids are in FCPS, retakes are allowed this year.

This will drive more teachers to quit. A total waste of their time to re-grade exams in the 90s.

No one is retaking tests in the 90s after the first unit. Once work picks up and grades start to level out, kids realize real fast it's not worth their time.

I've been doing retakes to 100 for years (like, 12+) and i always have a ton of high achieving kids want to retake the first test and then it's crickets.

For my AP and Honors classes, about 70% of the student who got a 79% or below did a retake. I prepared two tests as a matter of course.

For my GE classes, retakes were rarely done.

Here’s how I am handling this new policy. The first test will be the regular difficulty. The second test will be incredibly difficult. It will be longer and impossible to finish even for kids with extended time.

I made time to help the kids who wanted to do retakes last year since it was reasonable and they generally seemed very motivated.

No longer. Any makeup tests will not help this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid just got his first test back and did well, but said most kids are retaking anything under 97 so that they can be sure they are in good shape in case the final ends up being hard.

This seems like it is going to push the highly perfectionist crowd to insanity.

I hope the kids that really need the retakes are doing it too.

Interesting that the teachers even allow for retakes if the students get over a certain grade. None of my kid's teachers allow retakes if the original grade is a B or above unless it is a test near the end of the semester where scoring higher would bump their overall semester grade up a letter.

Several of her teachers also require anyone who scores below a C minus to automatically do the retake. A few others require the retake only if the first grade is a D+ or lower.

The current FCPS policy is to allow retakes for any test grade. If your kids are in FCPS, retakes are allowed this year.

This will drive more teachers to quit. A total waste of their time to re-grade exams in the 90s.

No one is retaking tests in the 90s after the first unit. Once work picks up and grades start to level out, kids realize real fast it's not worth their time.

I've been doing retakes to 100 for years (like, 12+) and i always have a ton of high achieving kids want to retake the first test and then it's crickets.

For my AP and Honors classes, about 70% of the student who got a 79% or below did a retake. I prepared two tests as a matter of course.

For my GE classes, retakes were rarely done.

Here’s how I am handling this new policy. The first test will be the regular difficulty. The second test will be incredibly difficult. It will be longer and impossible to finish even for kids with extended time.

I made time to help the kids who wanted to do retakes last year since it was reasonable and they generally seemed very motivated.

No longer. Any makeup tests will not help this year.

Thanks for sharing.