Explain implications of Arizona abortion ruling to me like I'm 5 years old

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Abortion can be approached two ways:

1) as an issue of values. Some people consider abortion to be murder and therefore are compelled to prohibit it. Others consider this an issue of privacy and rights for women and support abortion rights. For both groups, this is a matter of right and wrong.

2) as a political issue which which can be supported or opposed by various political strategies and can be used itself as part of a political strategy to motivate voters.

The Arizona ruling showed where these two approaches to abortion clash. The ruling is great for the pro-life values crowd, but politically it is very dangerous because it is far out of the mainstream. As such, it is a gift to Democrats and puts Republicans in a difficult position of trying to thread the needle of supporting prohibitions on abortion, but just not this prohibition.

I am a MAGA conservative, not an evangelical Christian. I would vote against that abortion restriction (too restrictive) but vote for Trump, Lake and others

So you would vote against the restriction but vote for candidates who, once in office, would push the restrictions.

Ok.

Dp- hey, there’s a whole thread dedicated to a study re: conservatives are stupid. They prove it here every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So they got what they wanted and are unhappy about it? Is that only because voters can undo it in November?

This is what I don't get: they got what they wanted! Are they upset that what they wanted is TOO strict?

Make it make sense.

They got what they wanted, but they didn’t want it so close to the election. Reason being that a total ban is deeply unpopular, and is going to drive turnout in a way that will negatively impact Republicans on the ballot. Given the unreasonableness of this (not only the lack of exceptions, but the fact that this is based on a law from before Arizona was even a state), it is going to impact turnout not only in Arizona, but nationwide. People are getting a really good idea of what Republican control looks like, and by and large, they don’t like it.

People can vote yes on abortion and still vote Republican. They are separate on the ballot

That is such a remarkably stupid decision. It’s like voting for Trump and his right wing judges and being shocked that they overturned Roe. I mean sure you could vote yes on abortion and vote Republican. But then don’t be surprised when those republicans figure out a new way to restrict abortion.

Exactly. Even in states that have passed referendums the Rs in those states are undoing them.

If Trump gets in abortion and contraception are GONE thanks to the Comstock law.

Not enough people understand the Comstock law. Sure, Trump can say he's not for a national ban but the Comstock law makes all of that mute. But those who vote to YES on abortion and still vote Republican are either wealthy and think they will still be able to get an abortion (they won't) or believe MAGA propaganda about the latest "insert here" cultural issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So they got what they wanted and are unhappy about it? Is that only because voters can undo it in November?

This is what I don't get: they got what they wanted! Are they upset that what they wanted is TOO strict?

Make it make sense.

They got what they wanted, but they didn’t want it so close to the election. Reason being that a total ban is deeply unpopular, and is going to drive turnout in a way that will negatively impact Republicans on the ballot. Given the unreasonableness of this (not only the lack of exceptions, but the fact that this is based on a law from before Arizona was even a state), it is going to impact turnout not only in Arizona, but nationwide. People are getting a really good idea of what Republican control looks like, and by and large, they don’t like it.

People can vote yes on abortion and still vote Republican. They are separate on the ballot

That is such a remarkably stupid decision. It’s like voting for Trump and his right wing judges and being shocked that they overturned Roe. I mean sure you could vote yes on abortion and vote Republican. But then don’t be surprised when those republicans figure out a new way to restrict abortion.

Exactly. Even in states that have passed referendums the Rs in those states are undoing them.

If Trump gets in abortion and contraception are GONE thanks to the Comstock law.

Not enough people understand the Comstock law. Sure, Trump can say he's not for a national ban but the Comstock law makes all of that mute. But those who vote to YES on abortion and still vote Republican are either wealthy and think they will still be able to get an abortion (they won't) or believe MAGA propaganda about the latest "insert here" cultural issue.

DP. I don't care how solid your plans are, emergencies will eff them up. I suppose if you were rich enough always to have your own OB/Gyn surgeon and surgical suite with full team ready at all times, maybe. But if not, you are the one sitting in your car in the ED parking lot waiting to go into shock so they can finally take care of you medically. All the money in the world does not change that.

And IVF? Good luck. Money won't be able to buy what doesn't exist anymore.

[Anonymous]

(PS: I am agreeing with you, in case that was not clear)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Abortion can be approached two ways:

1) as an issue of values. Some people consider abortion to be murder and therefore are compelled to prohibit it. Others consider this an issue of privacy and rights for women and support abortion rights. For both groups, this is a matter of right and wrong.

2) as a political issue which which can be supported or opposed by various political strategies and can be used itself as part of a political strategy to motivate voters.

The Arizona ruling showed where these two approaches to abortion clash. The ruling is great for the pro-life values crowd, but politically it is very dangerous because it is far out of the mainstream. As such, it is a gift to Democrats and puts Republicans in a difficult position of trying to thread the needle of supporting prohibitions on abortion, but just not this prohibition.

I am a MAGA conservative, not an evangelical Christian. I would vote against that abortion restriction (too restrictive) but vote for Trump, Lake and others

So you would vote against the restriction but vote for candidates who, once in office, would push the restrictions.

Ok.

And people like that wonder why no one thinks they’re smart.

[Anonymous]

In case anyone missed it on Page 7, the risk of death with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than that with abortion -- and there is a lower complication rate with abortions than with removal of your wisdom teeth.

FYI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In case anyone missed it on Page 7, the risk of death with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than that with abortion -- and there is a lower complication rate with abortions than with removal of your wisdom teeth.

FYI.

It’s not widely understood though. I remember reading before I gave birth the first time that childbirth is the most dangerous thing humans go through.

Then add in that the US has an alarmingly high rate of maternal and neonate mortality from preventable causes.

Those numbers will surely go up in Arizona (and Florida and Texas too).

[Anonymous]

Just a quick note to thank the previous poster(s) who have brought in relevant data and context concerning women's health and abortion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So they got what they wanted and are unhappy about it? Is that only because voters can undo it in November?

This is what I don't get: they got what they wanted! Are they upset that what they wanted is TOO strict?

Make it make sense.

If by “they” you mean GOP, well then, yes. When has MAGA ever made sense?

Um, easy: border security. That’s what most of us care about, our basic safety, not getting an abortion.

I mean I care about my life and the repercussions from getting pregnant - that is BASIC SAFETY. I dont want to have to be septic or bleeding out or have 3 doctors agree my life is in imminent danger ( remember basic safety?!!?) until I can get an abortion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Please, let's stay on topic. Let's not go off on a tangent about pro-life vs anti-life.

It sounds to me like Trump was trying to stop abortion from being an issue in November, but Arizona's Supreme Court ensured that it will be an issue, in Arizona and beyond, due to the strictness of the law there.

In other words, they would have been happier if this ruling had come about after November, when Trump would have potentially already been elected. Then it wouldn't affect the electability of Republicans throughout the country.

Thanks everyone! I appreciate you helping me connect the dots on this one.

Yeah, thanks, we’ll be sure to follow your directive not to go off on a tangent about pro-life vs “anti-life”, as you so eloquently put it, when this is not an “anti-life” discussion. It’s a pro-choice discussion. In fact, what’s anti-life is when women who need abortions to survive an unviable pregnancy are denied one. But you already knew that. Much as you probably already knew the answer to the question you posted here today.

It’s not even about “choice”, but womens healthcare. A woman doesn’t choose to have an etopic pregnancy, or a failed miscarriage. Why don’t women have a Legal right to make medical decisions about their own body?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So they got what they wanted and are unhappy about it? Is that only because voters can undo it in November?

This is what I don't get: they got what they wanted! Are they upset that what they wanted is TOO strict?

Make it make sense.

If by “they” you mean GOP, well then, yes. When has MAGA ever made sense?

Um, easy: border security. That’s what most of us care about, our basic safety, not getting an abortion.

Weird that you don’t equate a women’s ability to get an abortion for her health with safety.

For most women, intervening to end the life within her, is so much more risky than allowing her baby to have a normal birth. Study obstetrics, my friend.

WHAT??!!!!!! Lies. Lies. Lies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These threads always devolve into a debate about the morality of abortion.
I would love to debate the politics but we can’t because republicans are so deeply misinformed/ignorant, the threads unravel into arguing the basics of science and anatomy.
All for not, because some idiot will wander in 3 pages later spewing some nonsense Sister Agnes or Pastor Steve told them in 8th grade.
And the cycle will begin anew.

All for naught, rather than not.

[Anonymous]

A certain president’s spawn allegedly had an abortion in high school. @TheLSD “You are noticeably quiet today. The high school friends who took you to get abortion are not”

Spawn has since announced that she is now pro-life, after years of keeping her beliefs secret — declaring that becoming a mother has made her unapologetically against abortion.

When the Anti-Choice Choose— “Many anti-choice women are convinced that their need for abortion is unique — not like those other women — even though they have abortions for the same sorts of reasons. Anti-choice women often expect special treatment from clinic staff. Some demand an abortion immediately, wanting to skip important preliminaries such as taking a history or waiting for blood test results. Frequently, anti-abortion women will refuse counseling. Some women insist on sneaking in the back door and hiding in a room away from other patients. Others refuse to sit in the waiting room with women they call “sluts” and trash.Or if they do, they get angry when other patients in the waiting room talk or laugh, because it proves to them that women get abortions casually, for convenience.” https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So they got what they wanted and are unhappy about it? Is that only because voters can undo it in November?

This is what I don't get: they got what they wanted! Are they upset that what they wanted is TOO strict?

Make it make sense.

They got what they wanted, but they didn’t want it so close to the election. Reason being that a total ban is deeply unpopular, and is going to drive turnout in a way that will negatively impact Republicans on the ballot. Given the unreasonableness of this (not only the lack of exceptions, but the fact that this is based on a law from before Arizona was even a state), it is going to impact turnout not only in Arizona, but nationwide. People are getting a really good idea of what Republican control looks like, and by and large, they don’t like it.

People can vote yes on abortion and still vote Republican. They are separate on the ballot

That is such a remarkably stupid decision. It’s like voting for Trump and his right wing judges and being shocked that they overturned Roe. I mean sure you could vote yes on abortion and vote Republican. But then don’t be surprised when those republicans figure out a new way to restrict abortion.

Exactly. Even in states that have passed referendums the Rs in those states are undoing them.

If Trump gets in abortion and contraception are GONE thanks to the Comstock law.

Not enough people understand the Comstock law. Sure, Trump can say he's not for a national ban but the Comstock law makes all of that mute. But those who vote to YES on abortion and still vote Republican are either wealthy and think they will still be able to get an abortion (they won't) or believe MAGA propaganda about the latest "insert here" cultural issue.

DP. I don't care how solid your plans are, emergencies will eff them up. I suppose if you were rich enough always to have your own OB/Gyn surgeon and surgical suite with full team ready at all times, maybe. But if not, you are the one sitting in your car in the ED parking lot waiting to go into shock so they can finally take care of you medically. All the money in the world does not change that.

And IVF? Good luck. Money won't be able to buy what doesn't exist anymore.

Why would any medical professional risk their license or jail time to perform an emergency abortion if the brown shirts can come knocking the next day?