Why don’t schools make you just through some hoops for redshirting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ll have to reach out to your school board. A redshirted spring/summer birthday would be turning six before K not 7.

I’m talking about our current class. 3 kids are 7 already and it’s February. This is a Sep 1 cutoff public school.

What do you want the school to do?

This is a serious question.

Those kids didn’t attend kindergarten last year. Do you want them to start school in 1st grade? What are their teachers supposed to do?

Put them in a remedial class.

These classes don't even exist anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

This is….objectively not better. Also (and, again.) if they’re graduating in May at 20 - or, in the vast majority of cases, at 19…it’s not redshirting, something else is going on

That’s what you’re missing. There are now kids who have Jan/Feb birthdays with a Sep 1 cutoff held back for “the gift of time” and the kids are tough additions in the grade. In this case, they boss around the younger kids and there have been issues with teasing. It’s not ideal for the other kids.

Where do you live??

This is what I want to know. I have three kids ranging elementary to high school and they’ve attended different schools each, and I’ve NEVER seen redshirted kids with Jan/Feb birthdays in their classes. My youngest had an April bday, but otherwise it’s been May-August birthdays for those kids.

Agreed. There was some weirdness around Covid and virtual instruction with kids starting late, but I'm otherwise unaware of anyone redshirted with a birthday earlier than June, and really it's usually July-September birthdays who are redshirted. I'm pretty sensitive to this as someone with a kid with a labor day birthday who wasn't redshirted, but there aren't a lot of kids who are more than 12 months older than her. She also has several friends with August and September birthdays who weren't redshirted.

I do think K and 1st grade teachers often have unrealistic expectations for younger students and those were really hard for my kid. My 4-5yo kindergartner was sent to the office almost daily that first month of kindergarten for pushing to get to the front of the line when lining up. The principal told her if she came back, that she'd call her parents. My kid thought that would be a reward, as she'd get a private party with the principal and her parents. Totally didn't get it.

It ended up being a really traumatic start to school with a 4-5 yo who was crying and upset about going to school every day. Kindergarten was too much seat time and the behavior expectations didn't work for her. She's always been far ahead on academics, so that was never the issue. It's was the other expectations.

Did she go to preschool? Mine went to a strict preschool that set the kids up well so the transition was no problem. I think these play based programs are part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ll have to reach out to your school board. A redshirted spring/summer birthday would be turning six before K not 7.

I’m talking about our current class. 3 kids are 7 already and it’s February. This is a Sep 1 cutoff public school.

What do you want the school to do?

This is a serious question.

Those kids didn’t attend kindergarten last year. Do you want them to start school in 1st grade? What are their teachers supposed to do?

Put them in a remedial class.

These classes don't even exist anymore.

We need to bring them back. If a kid cannot handle k at age five, they still need to go for the supports and should go to a special class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you all so obsessed with other people's kids? Maybe your problem is really with colleges and competitions with artificial grade-based boundaries for giving out prizes. Attack the real problem.

It’s the teasing, it’s the spots on select athletic teams sorted by grade… it’s an unfair advantage in elementary school and it puts the youngest kids at a disadvantage. My kid has been teased for his height and he’s in the 95 percentile for height for his age but in such a redshirt heavy school with a lot of tall peers he plays sports with, you would not be able to tell he’s tall for his age. He is still smaller than kids 14m older. He’s mid June birthday and has several early spring kids in his class. I don’t really care about the height thing but time and time again, the younger kids are held to higher standards. Most of the kids selected for the peer leadership team at our school are redshirted kids. I think the schools want to older kids to be honest. They have less to worry about all around, especially with academic. A 6.5 year old is much more read to read than a just turned 5 year old. Everything is just easier. They are usually behaved in the classroom, but many have issues with peers and teasing/bullying outside of the classroom. That’s been my experience. I’m not talking about redshirts within a month or two, Im talking about kids who were intentionally held back to have an advantage that are 6m from the cut off.

When are you going to stop external supplementation and education for your child? When are you going to move to an at-risk school district? Since you claim to care so much about parents not doing anything that might advantage their child, I assume you are going to be consistent. Please update us!

They do that too. There is a big difference between getting tutoring and just holding your kid back so they are a full year older than most kids and 18m older than the younger kids. The fact that you don’t see the difference says a lot. I think once people make up their minds they just don’t see it as gaming the system, which it is.

You don't think spending all your free time in math tutoring to get ahead a year isn't also gaming the system? Then those parents complain that the math curriculum is too slow and holding their kid back. Same difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ll have to reach out to your school board. A redshirted spring/summer birthday would be turning six before K not 7.

I’m talking about our current class. 3 kids are 7 already and it’s February. This is a Sep 1 cutoff public school.

What do you want the school to do?

This is a serious question.

Those kids didn’t attend kindergarten last year. Do you want them to start school in 1st grade? What are their teachers supposed to do?

Put them in a remedial class.

These classes don't even exist anymore.

We need to bring them back. If a kid cannot handle k at age five, they still need to go for the supports and should go to a special class.

Which cost money. Are you too stupid to realize the schools can save money by just letting the kids start later than use your unnecessary and much more expensive solution?

[Anonymous]

Yes, OP, you are the ideal person to decide what’s best for every single person’s kid. Should’ve asked you before! Commie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you all so obsessed with other people's kids? Maybe your problem is really with colleges and competitions with artificial grade-based boundaries for giving out prizes. Attack the real problem.

It’s the teasing, it’s the spots on select athletic teams sorted by grade… it’s an unfair advantage in elementary school and it puts the youngest kids at a disadvantage. My kid has been teased for his height and he’s in the 95 percentile for height for his age but in such a redshirt heavy school with a lot of tall peers he plays sports with, you would not be able to tell he’s tall for his age. He is still smaller than kids 14m older. He’s mid June birthday and has several early spring kids in his class. I don’t really care about the height thing but time and time again, the younger kids are held to higher standards. Most of the kids selected for the peer leadership team at our school are redshirted kids. I think the schools want to older kids to be honest. They have less to worry about all around, especially with academic. A 6.5 year old is much more read to read than a just turned 5 year old. Everything is just easier. They are usually behaved in the classroom, but many have issues with peers and teasing/bullying outside of the classroom. That’s been my experience. I’m not talking about redshirts within a month or two, Im talking about kids who were intentionally held back to have an advantage that are 6m from the cut off.

There are a bunch of kids 6m from the cutoff at your school? Sounds like you're a bad fit for the culture of this school. No way this is a public school, why do you stay?

It’s a public school and really highly ranked. We aren’t a bad fit for the culture and our family and kids have a very solid group of friends with their peers and thriving. It is still annoying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you all so obsessed with other people's kids? Maybe your problem is really with colleges and competitions with artificial grade-based boundaries for giving out prizes. Attack the real problem.

It’s the teasing, it’s the spots on select athletic teams sorted by grade… it’s an unfair advantage in elementary school and it puts the youngest kids at a disadvantage. My kid has been teased for his height and he’s in the 95 percentile for height for his age but in such a redshirt heavy school with a lot of tall peers he plays sports with, you would not be able to tell he’s tall for his age. He is still smaller than kids 14m older. He’s mid June birthday and has several early spring kids in his class. I don’t really care about the height thing but time and time again, the younger kids are held to higher standards. Most of the kids selected for the peer leadership team at our school are redshirted kids. I think the schools want to older kids to be honest. They have less to worry about all around, especially with academic. A 6.5 year old is much more read to read than a just turned 5 year old. Everything is just easier. They are usually behaved in the classroom, but many have issues with peers and teasing/bullying outside of the classroom. That’s been my experience. I’m not talking about redshirts within a month or two, Im talking about kids who were intentionally held back to have an advantage that are 6m from the cut off.

When are you going to stop external supplementation and education for your child? When are you going to move to an at-risk school district? Since you claim to care so much about parents not doing anything that might advantage their child, I assume you are going to be consistent. Please update us!

They do that too. There is a big difference between getting tutoring and just holding your kid back so they are a full year older than most kids and 18m older than the younger kids. The fact that you don’t see the difference says a lot. I think once people make up their minds they just don’t see it as gaming the system, which it is.

You don't think spending all your free time in math tutoring to get ahead a year isn't also gaming the system? Then those parents complain that the math curriculum is too slow and holding their kid back. Same difference.

Supplementing and educating your kids is not gaming the system. Elementary school is very slow and does't teach the basics anymore. Most decent parents supplement. If you are holding back, you should be educating them at home so they keep up with their true peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ll have to reach out to your school board. A redshirted spring/summer birthday would be turning six before K not 7.

I’m talking about our current class. 3 kids are 7 already and it’s February. This is a Sep 1 cutoff public school.

What do you want the school to do?

This is a serious question.

Those kids didn’t attend kindergarten last year. Do you want them to start school in 1st grade? What are their teachers supposed to do?

Put them in a remedial class.

These classes don't even exist anymore.

We need to bring them back. If a kid cannot handle k at age five, they still need to go for the supports and should go to a special class.

Which cost money. Are you too stupid to realize the schools can save money by just letting the kids start later than use your unnecessary and much more expensive solution?

Starting later isn't fixing these kid's problems. The parents ignoring them is making it worse too. It's one thing to hold them back for therapies, etc. but that's not what's happening so you are postponing these kids getting real help in school because you will not help them outside of school. At least if the kids are in school, they can get evaluated and IEP's to address the concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

Red-shirting delays everything by a single year. Please explain how you think red-shirting leads to graduating with a bachelor's at 26. I simply must know how your mind works.

How do we go from graduation at 17 to 19 or 20? What happened to 18? The age most redshirted kids will be when they graduate? Like almost all of the other kids? I have a late May birthday and even I was 18 at HS graduation.

Kids held back will be 18 all of senior year, and some 19. Do the math. As a late may birthday, if your parents held you back a year, you'd be 19 at graduation. All your true peers will be at college and you will be at home in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you all so obsessed with other people's kids? Maybe your problem is really with colleges and competitions with artificial grade-based boundaries for giving out prizes. Attack the real problem.

It’s the teasing, it’s the spots on select athletic teams sorted by grade… it’s an unfair advantage in elementary school and it puts the youngest kids at a disadvantage. My kid has been teased for his height and he’s in the 95 percentile for height for his age but in such a redshirt heavy school with a lot of tall peers he plays sports with, you would not be able to tell he’s tall for his age. He is still smaller than kids 14m older. He’s mid June birthday and has several early spring kids in his class. I don’t really care about the height thing but time and time again, the younger kids are held to higher standards. Most of the kids selected for the peer leadership team at our school are redshirted kids. I think the schools want to older kids to be honest. They have less to worry about all around, especially with academic. A 6.5 year old is much more read to read than a just turned 5 year old. Everything is just easier. They are usually behaved in the classroom, but many have issues with peers and teasing/bullying outside of the classroom. That’s been my experience. I’m not talking about redshirts within a month or two, Im talking about kids who were intentionally held back to have an advantage that are 6m from the cut off.

When are you going to stop external supplementation and education for your child? When are you going to move to an at-risk school district? Since you claim to care so much about parents not doing anything that might advantage their child, I assume you are going to be consistent. Please update us!

They do that too. There is a big difference between getting tutoring and just holding your kid back so they are a full year older than most kids and 18m older than the younger kids. The fact that you don’t see the difference says a lot. I think once people make up their minds they just don’t see it as gaming the system, which it is.

Right, there is a big difference between outside tutoring and classes and redshirting: outside tutoring and supplementation have been shown in studies to cause harm to other children in the classroom, to the point where educators are now trained in how to try to mitigate that harm, while redshirting has not been shown to cause any harm. So, you are correct: your tutoring and outside academic supplements are in fact quite different than redshirting. I’m glad you acknowledge the serious harm you are doing to other children by your outside academic supplements.

Also, I wasn’t talking about what other parents were doing. I was talking about what you are going to do, because you are so worried about parents doing things that supposedly cause harm to other students. I want to know what you are going to do to mitigate the harms you are causing since you are so harshly judging other parents for your (imaginary, unsupported) claims of harm.

I’ll ask you again: when are you going to move your child to an at-risk school district? When are you going to stop externally supplementing, and start lobbying the school boards against such programs? When are you going to do something that actually helps all those kids you supposedly worry about?

I know you won’t answer this. You are an utter raging hypocrite like most of DCUMs anti-redshirt posters. You know I’m right, too, which is why you are scrambling to talk about what those other parents do and not answer the questions about your own actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ll have to reach out to your school board. A redshirted spring/summer birthday would be turning six before K not 7.

I’m talking about our current class. 3 kids are 7 already and it’s February. This is a Sep 1 cutoff public school.

What do you want the school to do?

This is a serious question.

Those kids didn’t attend kindergarten last year. Do you want them to start school in 1st grade? What are their teachers supposed to do?

Put them in a remedial class.

These classes don't even exist anymore.

We need to bring them back. If a kid cannot handle k at age five, they still need to go for the supports and should go to a special class.

Which cost money. Are you too stupid to realize the schools can save money by just letting the kids start later than use your unnecessary and much more expensive solution?

The PP would rather the school districts spend money they don’t have than let her precious snowflake sit next to a child three months older than her child. Honestly that’s pretty typical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you all so obsessed with other people's kids? Maybe your problem is really with colleges and competitions with artificial grade-based boundaries for giving out prizes. Attack the real problem.

It’s the teasing, it’s the spots on select athletic teams sorted by grade… it’s an unfair advantage in elementary school and it puts the youngest kids at a disadvantage. My kid has been teased for his height and he’s in the 95 percentile for height for his age but in such a redshirt heavy school with a lot of tall peers he plays sports with, you would not be able to tell he’s tall for his age. He is still smaller than kids 14m older. He’s mid June birthday and has several early spring kids in his class. I don’t really care about the height thing but time and time again, the younger kids are held to higher standards. Most of the kids selected for the peer leadership team at our school are redshirted kids. I think the schools want to older kids to be honest. They have less to worry about all around, especially with academic. A 6.5 year old is much more read to read than a just turned 5 year old. Everything is just easier. They are usually behaved in the classroom, but many have issues with peers and teasing/bullying outside of the classroom. That’s been my experience. I’m not talking about redshirts within a month or two, Im talking about kids who were intentionally held back to have an advantage that are 6m from the cut off.

When are you going to stop external supplementation and education for your child? When are you going to move to an at-risk school district? Since you claim to care so much about parents not doing anything that might advantage their child, I assume you are going to be consistent. Please update us!

They do that too. There is a big difference between getting tutoring and just holding your kid back so they are a full year older than most kids and 18m older than the younger kids. The fact that you don’t see the difference says a lot. I think once people make up their minds they just don’t see it as gaming the system, which it is.

You don't think spending all your free time in math tutoring to get ahead a year isn't also gaming the system? Then those parents complain that the math curriculum is too slow and holding their kid back. Same difference.

Supplementing and educating your kids is not gaming the system. Elementary school is very slow and does't teach the basics anymore. Most decent parents supplement. If you are holding back, you should be educating them at home so they keep up with their true peers.

Outside supplementation causes real harm to the most vulnerable kids in the classes.

Not that you care about those kids, obviously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

Red-shirting delays everything by a single year. Please explain how you think red-shirting leads to graduating with a bachelor's at 26. I simply must know how your mind works.

How do we go from graduation at 17 to 19 or 20? What happened to 18? The age most redshirted kids will be when they graduate? Like almost all of the other kids? I have a late May birthday and even I was 18 at HS graduation.

The discussion is about the redshirted outliers who are at least 6m from the cutoff. I think 19.5 is old to graduate personally. I can see many kids in that situation being frustrated the last year and just wanting to get out of the house. I know I did as a 17 year old senior. I can’t imagine being 2 years older and not being so ready to go away to college and have some independence.

No it's not about the outliers. It's about redshirting in general. The majority are very close to the cutoff which makes the hyperbole about 20yr old high school graduates ridiculous.

It’s about multiple 7 year olds in a kinder class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ll have to reach out to your school board. A redshirted spring/summer birthday would be turning six before K not 7.

I’m talking about our current class. 3 kids are 7 already and it’s February. This is a Sep 1 cutoff public school.

What do you want the school to do?

This is a serious question.

Those kids didn’t attend kindergarten last year. Do you want them to start school in 1st grade? What are their teachers supposed to do?

Put them in a remedial class.

These classes don't even exist anymore.

We need to bring them back. If a kid cannot handle k at age five, they still need to go for the supports and should go to a special class.

Which cost money. Are you too stupid to realize the schools can save money by just letting the kids start later than use your unnecessary and much more expensive solution?

The PP would rather the school districts spend money they don’t have than let her precious snowflake sit next to a child three months older than her child. Honestly that’s pretty typical.

Except that’s the not the gap. It’s 18 months. This is basic math here. I’m not sure why it’s so hard for you. Kids turned 7 in Jan/Feb and my child is 6 at the end of June.