How to get hoarder sibling to empty/sell elder’s home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you rent the storage space, you are legally on the hook for it. I'd be careful about assuming a clean "you take over the space or they will take possession of the storage space." You don't want anything adverse on your financial records from this.

This.

OP, you need to skip the "storage" step. Have it hauled to her home or junked. Otherwise you may be paying for the storage of trash in perpetuity and the storage company could take legal action against you.

Are you sole POA? If not, it is a much tricker situation legally.

I feel for her kids. Hoarding is a serious mental illness. If relatives say anything, just use that word and say you are looking out for your mother's finances. And block the hoarder's number.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares? Tell them they have until 1/31 and on 2/1 when they haven't done it, call the junk haulers.

I will have to deal with character defamation and screaming and 10 phone calls a day so I care.

OP

But no matter what you do or when you do it, this is going to happen. You're looking for a way to make an irrational person rational. It's not going to happen.

You need to do what needs to be done to secure the elder's finances. Attempting to accommodate hoarder sibling is a barrier to that. If there were a squatter in the house, would you try to make them leave happily, or would you accept that they need to leave by whatever means necessary?

Very good point!

I’ve taken initial steps based on your advice.

My plan will be to rent a storage unit and hire movers to move hoarder’s stuff there with the boundary that they have 1 month and then either pay or the stuff is taken.

Get junk haulers to come.

I will provide POA paperwork.

Then painters, cleaners, etc.

Not a good plan. You will be the contracted party with storage and have legal consequences if they are not paid. Your sister has a house, just take anything there that isn't trash that you don't want, skip the intervening step and be done with it. Definitely hire a company to help with the sorting and packing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have the POA.

Hoarder would be backup if I can’t or won’t do it.

Parent changed POA to me after death of the other parent (years ago) and did want to tell my sibling. They left me with that…and seemed quite gleeful it would be me telling them.

My parent is hot and cold about hoarder sibling. It’s a tiring dynamic.

OP

You have a lot of mental illness in your family, OP, it helps explain your ineffective behavior toward it. For your own well being, once house is sold, check out coda.org. I think NAMI may have some information on hoarding, too.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell them it has to be sold due to tax reasons. There’s no disputing that. Set a date that the realtor is coming and the house will need to be empty by that date. Suggest they move anything they wish to keep to storage, and there will be an estate sale and clean out the week before the realtor comes.

This is genius and true. I'm doing this.

I told the real estate agent a date for getting house on the market and copied hoarder who emailed within minutes to say it'll be a month later. OMG. The delay tactics have already started (again).

OP

Expect that and refuse. The agent can refer you to people to help with clear out and cleaning.

Good luck, OP. I'd be more strategic and not give her access to that person's name or contact information. Set the date for the estate sale.

Keep us posted!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell them it has to be sold due to tax reasons. There’s no disputing that. Set a date that the realtor is coming and the house will need to be empty by that date. Suggest they move anything they wish to keep to storage, and there will be an estate sale and clean out the week before the realtor comes.

This is genius and true. I'm doing this.

I told the real estate agent a date for getting house on the market and copied hoarder who emailed within minutes to say it'll be a month later. OMG. The delay tactics have already started (again).

OP

Why on earth are you copying your sibling on this stuff? Get a plan with the real estate agent and just execute on your plan. You have POA. You need to assume the relationship with your sibling will implode. They have a mental illness. You aren’t going to magically solve this. Just do what you need to do.

You are right. It’s hard to step out of the family dynamic yet I’m going to do what you say.

You all are helping me feel brave. Thank you!!

OP

If this RE agent backs out do not share name and contact info of next one with mentally ill person.

When is the date for the estate sale? The company will publicize it. No backing off it.

[Anonymous]

Get a locksmith out today to change the locks, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THaNK YOU, everyone, for helping me. I am not sure I would have taken these steps so well without you guys telling me not to put up with this situation.

I needed an outside voice like yours who is not locked in this dysfunctional family.

I’m glad some progress had been made. But really, call 1 800 junk, go over there without your sister and just start cleaning massive amounts out letting the 800 junk people throw it in their truck and haul it off.

This, just get it over with and change the locks, OP.

[Anonymous]

It's a serious mental illness, OP.

https://helplinefaqs.nami.org/article/50-how-can-i-get-help-support-for-hoarding-disorder

Don't drag it out, it prolongs the stress for you unnecessarily and the tax consequences are real. Just get it done and CHANGE THE LOCKS TODAY.

You have been trained all your life to capitulate to crazy as if tomorrow they will be sane. Hasn't worked yet and never will. Be more self protective, change locks, don't share contact info of professionals, etc. Just do it, OP, then it will be over. No pods, storage units, etc, just clear out what is still there on X date. She won't have a key so no adds. Estate sale on Y date. House listed on Z date in condition to maximize sale value.

Then it will all be in the past and her hoarding will not impact you. Stop dragging things out.

[Anonymous]

The elderly parent asked me today if it was difficult to work on the house with my sibling.

This parent gets off on disagreements and drama, and I didn't want to feed that. I asked them to expand on what they meant by "difficult." They wouldn't explain, so I said I couldn't understand what they were asking and so couldn't answer their question. "I'm just curious," they said.

Man, that felt good. This elderly parent has created issues between us siblings (lying about things to make others angry) for whatever reason, and the three of us have been caught in a Drama Triangle. Once I learned about the Drama Triangle, I exited it from it and now sibling and elderly parent yell at each other and fight from time to time.

Things are progressing! I've spoken to contractors and vendors about tasks that need to get done. I just keep recalling what some of you said about ripping the Band Aid off and risking getting yelled at. The yelling part is really nothing new anyway, so I should be used to it.

OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I'm noticing you pointing out logic flaws in your sibling's arguments, as if they're trying to have a rational conversation with you. They're not. Stop doing that! They are just yelling out any words they can use to attempt to delay cleaning their hoard. If they could delay cleaning by telling you they were transspecies and identified as a raccoon and you were oppressing them because racoons need trash to nest in, they would do that. Filter out their antics and focus only on completing the sale.

I'm embarrassed because you are right about me pointing out the logic flaws as if they are rational. Head in hands over here.

I will stop!

OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares? Tell them they have until 1/31 and on 2/1 when they haven't done it, call the junk haulers.

I will have to deal with character defamation and screaming and 10 phone calls a day so I care.

OP

OP, do you have POA?

If so, once haulers come you will have to have a locksmith change the locks to prevent access.

The hoarder is seriously mentally ill, do you understand that? We can't control other people. If relatives do not understand she is mentally ill, you can't control them either. Block the number.

If you don't have POA you will need to consult a lawyer.

You need to buck up and do what is needed for the parent with dementia. They will need all the money for their care, not an extra tax bill.

Yes, I have POA. If I change the locks, it'll cause too much of an issue. I'm not going to do that.

Sibling is not bringing crud into the house, and they won't try and damage the house.

They are just very slow to remove items.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The elderly parent asked me today if it was difficult to work on the house with my sibling.

This parent gets off on disagreements and drama, and I didn't want to feed that. I asked them to expand on what they meant by "difficult." They wouldn't explain, so I said I couldn't understand what they were asking and so couldn't answer their question. "I'm just curious," they said.

Man, that felt good. This elderly parent has created issues between us siblings (lying about things to make others angry) for whatever reason, and the three of us have been caught in a Drama Triangle. Once I learned about the Drama Triangle, I exited it from it and now sibling and elderly parent yell at each other and fight from time to time.

Things are progressing! I've spoken to contractors and vendors about tasks that need to get done. I just keep recalling what some of you said about ripping the Band Aid off and risking getting yelled at. The yelling part is really nothing new anyway, so I should be used to it.

OP

Awesome update, OP! You are awesome. Keep it up, and keep us posted.You have people rooting for you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have the POA.

Hoarder would be backup if I can’t or won’t do it.

Parent changed POA to me after death of the other parent (years ago) and did want to tell my sibling. They left me with that…and seemed quite gleeful it would be me telling them.

My parent is hot and cold about hoarder sibling. It’s a tiring dynamic.

OP

You have a lot of mental illness in your family, OP, it helps explain your ineffective behavior toward it. For your own well being, once house is sold, check out coda.org. I think NAMI may have some information on hoarding, too.

Good luck!

I read the CODA pamphlet. Oh, yeah, that's the stuff I've worked on in therapy. Yet I didn't know about the acronym CODA for it or that my issues fell under that topic.

Even though I've worked on this, I have more to do as you all can tell. lol

Your info has blown my mind!!

Thank you for sharing this.

OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I hear you. I’m not seeing new junk taking up space.

However, hoarder pulls papers and books out of drawers and off shelves and spreads them all over the floor. Maybe that is their way of making the space more hoarded. They didn’t even bother cleaning that up before we had people come in.

It’s crazy we will miss out on $150,000 or so for the home’s sale price because we no longer have the time to spruce up the house due to the hoarder.

This thread is making me brave.

And thank you, PP, I tried to tread carefully and hoarder has already yelled at me. Sadly, I also yelled back, which I do not want to do.

They said I would not “let them” move because I asked them not to move on one certain day last year. There were another 300 days or so that were fine…

OP, I'm trying to understand the situation here. You parents house is the home in question and it is full of stuff, but NOT hoarded, correct?

It is your sibling who is the hoarder? And the issue is just that the sibling is having a hard time letting go of your parents' possessions in your parents' house?

The sibling isn't bringing THEIR stuff into your parents' home, they are just not agreeing to quick removal of your parents' items? The hoarder sibling is going through each room slowly, dragging stuff out and making messes, but is not going to be able to process through everything. They are going to try to take everything out little by little and add to their current hoard in two+ more houses?

So what do you mean by the last comment - you told your sibling not to move on one day? What do you mean, to move? Who is moving? Why would your sibling need your permission to move?

I can see how what I said was confusing.

Sibling wants to move furniture to one of their houses.

They say I prevented them from moving it because the one day they chose didn’t work for my schedule. They gave me a weeks heads up and I was going to be out of town.

I wanted to be present. There have been lots of other days the move could have been done so saying I prevented them from moving at all is not correct.

OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I hear you. I’m not seeing new junk taking up space.

However, hoarder pulls papers and books out of drawers and off shelves and spreads them all over the floor. Maybe that is their way of making the space more hoarded. They didn’t even bother cleaning that up before we had people come in.

It’s crazy we will miss out on $150,000 or so for the home’s sale price because we no longer have the time to spruce up the house due to the hoarder.

This thread is making me brave.

And thank you, PP, I tried to tread carefully and hoarder has already yelled at me. Sadly, I also yelled back, which I do not want to do.

They said I would not “let them” move because I asked them not to move on one certain day last year. There were another 300 days or so that were fine…

OP, I'm trying to understand the situation here. You parents house is the home in question and it is full of stuff, but NOT hoarded, correct?

It is your sibling who is the hoarder? And the issue is just that the sibling is having a hard time letting go of your parents' possessions in your parents' house?

The sibling isn't bringing THEIR stuff into your parents' home, they are just not agreeing to quick removal of your parents' items? The hoarder sibling is going through each room slowly, dragging stuff out and making messes, but is not going to be able to process through everything. They are going to try to take everything out little by little and add to their current hoard in two+ more houses?

So what do you mean by the last comment - you told your sibling not to move on one day? What do you mean, to move? Who is moving? Why would your sibling need your permission to move?

I can see how what I said was confusing.

Sibling wants to move furniture to one of their houses.

They say I prevented them from moving it because the one day they chose didn’t work for my schedule. They gave me a weeks heads up and I was going to be out of town.

I wanted to be present. There have been lots of other days the move could have been done so saying I prevented them from moving at all is not correct.

OP

I gotta say, that’s not the move I would have made. Say yes, let them have a chance, then set the date. Or set the date for the clean out and let them have full access until then. Put up cameras in case of criminal activity. The end.