BASIS attrition after middle school- why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The half dozen best DC public middle school don’t and never will, other than Hardy and Deal for IB families. Cope.

Exactly. It’s short sighted and foolish not to do the lottery in 5th grade for a secure HS path.

I am one of the PPs and this thread is starting to feel mean and unsympathetic. Yes it might be short sighted but when kids are thriving and love their friends and elementary school it is not just about being pragmatic. Some families are really invested in their elementary school community and it’s hard to leave. I know this is not the site for empathy but I’m sure you’ve made a ‘foolish’ decision in regards to your child because it made them happy and feel supported.

Do you really live in such a bubble that anyone who dares tell you a hard truth you don't want to hear is being "mean and unsympathetic"? It is empirically short sighted and foolish to choose one last year of ES at the risk of failing to secure a MS or HS path. Unless you have private school money at your disposal that is a foolish choice. Facts.

I don’t live in a bubble. I live in a neighborhood that most people on this board would never live in or probably step foot in. Your condescension is noted and unappreciated. As an aside I don’t think staying for fifth grade means you can’t secure a good HS. The city has plenty of seats for students who have good grades at the application HSs. And lots of people leave Basis in 6th grade or 7th grade anyway.

Are you white? Because there are not plenty of seats in application high schools for white kids - and that number is getting reduced every year.

Can you please show me where DCPS publishes their race quotas for application HSs? I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks.

About 300 9th graders enter Banneker and SWW every year. BASIS has 40ish in its graduating class. So, seems to be a better bet to try to get into Banneker or SWW than to attend BASIS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The half dozen best DC public middle school don’t and never will, other than Hardy and Deal for IB families. Cope.

Exactly. It’s short sighted and foolish not to do the lottery in 5th grade for a secure HS path.

I am one of the PPs and this thread is starting to feel mean and unsympathetic. Yes it might be short sighted but when kids are thriving and love their friends and elementary school it is not just about being pragmatic. Some families are really invested in their elementary school community and it’s hard to leave. I know this is not the site for empathy but I’m sure you’ve made a ‘foolish’ decision in regards to your child because it made them happy and feel supported.

Do you really live in such a bubble that anyone who dares tell you a hard truth you don't want to hear is being "mean and unsympathetic"? It is empirically short sighted and foolish to choose one last year of ES at the risk of failing to secure a MS or HS path. Unless you have private school money at your disposal that is a foolish choice. Facts.

I don’t live in a bubble. I live in a neighborhood that most people on this board would never live in or probably step foot in. Your condescension is noted and unappreciated. As an aside I don’t think staying for fifth grade means you can’t secure a good HS. The city has plenty of seats for students who have good grades at the application HSs. And lots of people leave Basis in 6th grade or 7th grade anyway.

Are you white? Because there are not plenty of seats in application high schools for white kids - and that number is getting reduced every year.

Can you please show me where DCPS publishes their race quotas for application HSs? I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks.

How about you show us where DCPS publishes admissions criteria that are clear, comprehensive, and transparent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The half dozen best DC public middle school don’t and never will, other than Hardy and Deal for IB families. Cope.

Exactly. It’s short sighted and foolish not to do the lottery in 5th grade for a secure HS path.

I am one of the PPs and this thread is starting to feel mean and unsympathetic. Yes it might be short sighted but when kids are thriving and love their friends and elementary school it is not just about being pragmatic. Some families are really invested in their elementary school community and it’s hard to leave. I know this is not the site for empathy but I’m sure you’ve made a ‘foolish’ decision in regards to your child because it made them happy and feel supported.

Do you really live in such a bubble that anyone who dares tell you a hard truth you don't want to hear is being "mean and unsympathetic"? It is empirically short sighted and foolish to choose one last year of ES at the risk of failing to secure a MS or HS path. Unless you have private school money at your disposal that is a foolish choice. Facts.

I don’t live in a bubble. I live in a neighborhood that most people on this board would never live in or probably step foot in. Your condescension is noted and unappreciated. As an aside I don’t think staying for fifth grade means you can’t secure a good HS. The city has plenty of seats for students who have good grades at the application HSs. And lots of people leave Basis in 6th grade or 7th grade anyway.

Are you white? Because there are not plenty of seats in application high schools for white kids - and that number is getting reduced every year.

Can you please show me where DCPS publishes their race quotas for application HSs? I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks.

How about you show us where DCPS publishes admissions criteria that are clear, comprehensive, and transparent.

Sounds like you are trying to deflect from my question. I’m not the one who said my child would have a harder time getting into these application schools if they are white. If there is no data to show these race quotas or race based application practices you describe, I guess you shouldn’t make those claims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The half dozen best DC public middle school don’t and never will, other than Hardy and Deal for IB families. Cope.

Exactly. It’s short sighted and foolish not to do the lottery in 5th grade for a secure HS path.

I am one of the PPs and this thread is starting to feel mean and unsympathetic. Yes it might be short sighted but when kids are thriving and love their friends and elementary school it is not just about being pragmatic. Some families are really invested in their elementary school community and it’s hard to leave. I know this is not the site for empathy but I’m sure you’ve made a ‘foolish’ decision in regards to your child because it made them happy and feel supported.

Do you really live in such a bubble that anyone who dares tell you a hard truth you don't want to hear is being "mean and unsympathetic"? It is empirically short sighted and foolish to choose one last year of ES at the risk of failing to secure a MS or HS path. Unless you have private school money at your disposal that is a foolish choice. Facts.

I don’t live in a bubble. I live in a neighborhood that most people on this board would never live in or probably step foot in. Your condescension is noted and unappreciated. As an aside I don’t think staying for fifth grade means you can’t secure a good HS. The city has plenty of seats for students who have good grades at the application HSs. And lots of people leave Basis in 6th grade or 7th grade anyway.

Are you white? Because there are not plenty of seats in application high schools for white kids - and that number is getting reduced every year.

Can you please show me where DCPS publishes their race quotas for application HSs? I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks.

How about you show us where DCPS publishes admissions criteria that are clear, comprehensive, and transparent.

Sounds like you are trying to deflect from my question. I’m not the one who said my child would have a harder time getting into these application schools if they are white. If there is no data to show these race quotas or race based application practices you describe, I guess you shouldn’t make those claims.

Do people usually publish data that indicates they're guilty of massive civil rights violations? Come on. It isn't a reasonable question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because BASIS isn't actually that great. High teacher turnover, inexperienced teachers, few sports and activities, and way too much time devoted to testing rather than learning. 5th and 6th are big shuffle years in the system, 7th and 8h aren't, and by 9th when people have other options, a lot of families have figured out that BASIS is a school they are happy to exit.

This x100, especially on the teaching quality. We are a current middle school family, where our child has gotten straight As for all the years they have been enrolled. But while there are a couple of great teachers, most have been just ok and several have been absolutely appalling. In fact, the 6th and 7th grade physics teacher just got fired after months of parent complaints and the administration acknowledging he was failing in both instruction and classroom management. The head of school had tried to tell the parents that we shouldn’t worry because he was being mentored by other teachers in the BASIS network, but whatever mentoring he was getting wasn’t doing anything. Now they have a bunch of teachers trying to cover his classes — the kids were already behind on the curriculum (which gets tested in the mid year pre comps and end of year comp exams) and this will only make it worse.

Similarly, they had to hire a 5th grade math teacher last minute last year - and they picked one who didn’t seem to have any educational experience and wasn’t a good teacher. shocking no one, this year the 6th grade class was evaluated to be behind on math (leading to a bunch of extra homework assignments as the administration apparently feels that will magically fix the problem of a year’s worth of subpar instruction).

Those are just the most egregious examples. But overall the teaching quality is not up to par, especially for a school that talks such a big game about the quality and rigor of its academics. We will not be returning next year.

Don’t forget the 6th grade math teacher last year who was repeatedly late coming back from lunch leaving the kids locked out of their classroom. The 7th grade kids are way behind in math this year too.

That said BASIS is better than our other choices. Our family is not wealthy and doesn’t have funds to move or pay for private.

My 7th grader isn't behind in math. She used Khan Academy to catch up on what was missed in 6th grade, the same way she's done since 3rd grade when the pandemic messed everything up. Unfortunately, this generation of kids needs to take learning in their own hands because teaching is messed up everywhere and kids are either years behind or have giant gaps because of the pandemic.

As a teacher I find your comments very depressing. The disrespect is coming from everywhere. Quality and experienced teachers don't want to teach bratty or violent children. Excellent teachers don't want to interact with over-demanding parents, who have no experience in education, apart from being a student, telling teachers how to do the job. So schools are left with whatever is out there. It will only get worse. Be glad BASIS has the teachers it has. If these bad teachers were the best candidates, think of all the other teachers, if there were any other candidates, BASIS didn't choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard to say how much the at-risk set aside will make a difference. Latin has already been offering it and it seems it’s not gaining much traction. Also, BASIS doesn’t seem to be the ideal school for at-risk students after what I’ve observed about the ideal household for BASIS students, so even if at-risk students start off at BASIS, it’s hard to know if they will fare well enough to continue. But I don’t mean for this line of discussion to derail this particular post because at this point the attrition at the school has nothing to do with having an at-risk preference.

For the PP who suggested moving to the suburbs isn’t costly, the current interest rates make it very costly and many families don’t want to move so far into the suburbs where it’s more affordable due to commutes (and the higher feeling of isolation that goes with living further away).

There isn’t a single person at BASIS who doesn’t wish for a better facility and that would really solve a lot of the shortcomings that people have identified that theirs students seek in a high school experience. But people have different tolerances for different weaknesses at a school and for some people it seems supplementing extra-curriculars outside of school is easier than supplementing academics.

For the PP who mentioned doing additional work outside of school, I haven’t gotten the impression that’s common at BASIS. Families at other schools have to make up for the lack of learning taking place during the school day and it’s hard to imagine spending free time that way. Lots of trade offs for sure. By the time high school comes around, priorities may be more obvious.

Many, many people don’t understand that the key intake year for Basis and Latin is 5th grade. You assume that this common knowledge is widely understood. Its not.

+1

The more I meet parents of upper elementary school aged kids the more of an issue I think this is. Partially because people just assume all middle schools start in 6th grade and miss the lottery, partially because kids really want to finish elementary school at their current school through fifth grade. I know three families who turned down basis for that reason.

This is real for us (though we don't like BASIS and are not applying). But my kid is so happy at their DCPS elementary school, and we have a horrible feeder middle (Cardozo). I'm really reluctant to pull him from a 5th grade where he will certainly thrive into the unknown. Really wish all middle schools started in 6th.

Good luck with your choice to stay at your ES and I hope you get into a MS you will be satisfied with.

We pulled both so they could start afresh at BASIS. SWW@FS was not an option due to building and academic issues and Cardozo MS is just the worst in DCPS. We didn't want to move, but would have if BASIS was not around. Every MS in DCPS has its problems. Even Deal is short of teachers. My kids like it and we are very happy with what has transpired over the years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The half dozen best DC public middle school don’t and never will, other than Hardy and Deal for IB families. Cope.

Exactly. It’s short sighted and foolish not to do the lottery in 5th grade for a secure HS path.

I am one of the PPs and this thread is starting to feel mean and unsympathetic. Yes it might be short sighted but when kids are thriving and love their friends and elementary school it is not just about being pragmatic. Some families are really invested in their elementary school community and it’s hard to leave. I know this is not the site for empathy but I’m sure you’ve made a ‘foolish’ decision in regards to your child because it made them happy and feel supported.

Do you really live in such a bubble that anyone who dares tell you a hard truth you don't want to hear is being "mean and unsympathetic"? It is empirically short sighted and foolish to choose one last year of ES at the risk of failing to secure a MS or HS path. Unless you have private school money at your disposal that is a foolish choice. Facts.

I don’t live in a bubble. I live in a neighborhood that most people on this board would never live in or probably step foot in. Your condescension is noted and unappreciated. As an aside I don’t think staying for fifth grade means you can’t secure a good HS. The city has plenty of seats for students who have good grades at the application HSs. And lots of people leave Basis in 6th grade or 7th grade anyway.

Are you white? Because there are not plenty of seats in application high schools for white kids - and that number is getting reduced every year.

Can you please show me where DCPS publishes their race quotas for application HSs? I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks.

About 300 9th graders enter Banneker and SWW every year. BASIS has 40ish in its graduating class. So, seems to be a better bet to try to get into Banneker or SWW than to attend BASIS

Banneker had 255 freshman this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The half dozen best DC public middle school don’t and never will, other than Hardy and Deal for IB families. Cope.

Exactly. It’s short sighted and foolish not to do the lottery in 5th grade for a secure HS path.

I am one of the PPs and this thread is starting to feel mean and unsympathetic. Yes it might be short sighted but when kids are thriving and love their friends and elementary school it is not just about being pragmatic. Some families are really invested in their elementary school community and it’s hard to leave. I know this is not the site for empathy but I’m sure you’ve made a ‘foolish’ decision in regards to your child because it made them happy and feel supported.

Do you really live in such a bubble that anyone who dares tell you a hard truth you don't want to hear is being "mean and unsympathetic"? It is empirically short sighted and foolish to choose one last year of ES at the risk of failing to secure a MS or HS path. Unless you have private school money at your disposal that is a foolish choice. Facts.

I don’t live in a bubble. I live in a neighborhood that most people on this board would never live in or probably step foot in. Your condescension is noted and unappreciated. As an aside I don’t think staying for fifth grade means you can’t secure a good HS. The city has plenty of seats for students who have good grades at the application HSs. And lots of people leave Basis in 6th grade or 7th grade anyway.

Are you white? Because there are not plenty of seats in application high schools for white kids - and that number is getting reduced every year.

Can you please show me where DCPS publishes their race quotas for application HSs? I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks.

How about you show us where DCPS publishes admissions criteria that are clear, comprehensive, and transparent.

Sounds like you are trying to deflect from my question. I’m not the one who said my child would have a harder time getting into these application schools if they are white. If there is no data to show these race quotas or race based application practices you describe, I guess you shouldn’t make those claims.

Do people usually publish data that indicates they're guilty of massive civil rights violations? Come on. It isn't a reasonable question.

THIS - when you allow high school students to choose the next class of students, please explain the clear consistent criteria and how magically SWW always has the same racial balance. If the races were reversed, this would not be allowed to continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The half dozen best DC public middle school don’t and never will, other than Hardy and Deal for IB families. Cope.

Exactly. It’s short sighted and foolish not to do the lottery in 5th grade for a secure HS path.

I am one of the PPs and this thread is starting to feel mean and unsympathetic. Yes it might be short sighted but when kids are thriving and love their friends and elementary school it is not just about being pragmatic. Some families are really invested in their elementary school community and it’s hard to leave. I know this is not the site for empathy but I’m sure you’ve made a ‘foolish’ decision in regards to your child because it made them happy and feel supported.

Do you really live in such a bubble that anyone who dares tell you a hard truth you don't want to hear is being "mean and unsympathetic"? It is empirically short sighted and foolish to choose one last year of ES at the risk of failing to secure a MS or HS path. Unless you have private school money at your disposal that is a foolish choice. Facts.

I don’t live in a bubble. I live in a neighborhood that most people on this board would never live in or probably step foot in. Your condescension is noted and unappreciated. As an aside I don’t think staying for fifth grade means you can’t secure a good HS. The city has plenty of seats for students who have good grades at the application HSs. And lots of people leave Basis in 6th grade or 7th grade anyway.

Are you white? Because there are not plenty of seats in application high schools for white kids - and that number is getting reduced every year.

Can you please show me where DCPS publishes their race quotas for application HSs? I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks.

How about you show us where DCPS publishes admissions criteria that are clear, comprehensive, and transparent.

Sounds like you are trying to deflect from my question. I’m not the one who said my child would have a harder time getting into these application schools if they are white. If there is no data to show these race quotas or race based application practices you describe, I guess you shouldn’t make those claims.

Do people usually publish data that indicates they're guilty of massive civil rights violations? Come on. It isn't a reasonable question.

THIS - when you allow high school students to choose the next class of students, please explain the clear consistent criteria and how magically SWW always has the same racial balance. If the races were reversed, this would not be allowed to continue.

If the racial makeup of families in dc hasn’t changed drastically then I would assume Walls demographics wouldn’t change. I would argue that Walls demographics have changed over the past decade. It’s about 50% white now. That was not always the case. But that seems to go against your argument that white kids have a harder time getting in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because BASIS isn't actually that great. High teacher turnover, inexperienced teachers, few sports and activities, and way too much time devoted to testing rather than learning. 5th and 6th are big shuffle years in the system, 7th and 8h aren't, and by 9th when people have other options, a lot of families have figured out that BASIS is a school they are happy to exit.

This x100, especially on the teaching quality. We are a current middle school family, where our child has gotten straight As for all the years they have been enrolled. But while there are a couple of great teachers, most have been just ok and several have been absolutely appalling. In fact, the 6th and 7th grade physics teacher just got fired after months of parent complaints and the administration acknowledging he was failing in both instruction and classroom management. The head of school had tried to tell the parents that we shouldn’t worry because he was being mentored by other teachers in the BASIS network, but whatever mentoring he was getting wasn’t doing anything. Now they have a bunch of teachers trying to cover his classes — the kids were already behind on the curriculum (which gets tested in the mid year pre comps and end of year comp exams) and this will only make it worse.

Similarly, they had to hire a 5th grade math teacher last minute last year - and they picked one who didn’t seem to have any educational experience and wasn’t a good teacher. shocking no one, this year the 6th grade class was evaluated to be behind on math (leading to a bunch of extra homework assignments as the administration apparently feels that will magically fix the problem of a year’s worth of subpar instruction).

Those are just the most egregious examples. But overall the teaching quality is not up to par, especially for a school that talks such a big game about the quality and rigor of its academics. We will not be returning next year.

Don’t forget the 6th grade math teacher last year who was repeatedly late coming back from lunch leaving the kids locked out of their classroom. The 7th grade kids are way behind in math this year too.

That said BASIS is better than our other choices. Our family is not wealthy and doesn’t have funds to move or pay for private.

My 7th grader isn't behind in math. She used Khan Academy to catch up on what was missed in 6th grade, the same way she's done since 3rd grade when the pandemic messed everything up. Unfortunately, this generation of kids needs to take learning in their own hands because teaching is messed up everywhere and kids are either years behind or have giant gaps because of the pandemic.

As a teacher I find your comments very depressing. The disrespect is coming from everywhere. Quality and experienced teachers don't want to teach bratty or violent children. Excellent teachers don't want to interact with over-demanding parents, who have no experience in education, apart from being a student, telling teachers how to do the job. So schools are left with whatever is out there. It will only get worse. Be glad BASIS has the teachers it has. If these bad teachers were the best candidates, think of all the other teachers, if there were any other candidates, BASIS didn't choose.

Really speaking highly of your profession (yikes).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because BASIS isn't actually that great. High teacher turnover, inexperienced teachers, few sports and activities, and way too much time devoted to testing rather than learning. 5th and 6th are big shuffle years in the system, 7th and 8h aren't, and by 9th when people have other options, a lot of families have figured out that BASIS is a school they are happy to exit.

This x100, especially on the teaching quality. We are a current middle school family, where our child has gotten straight As for all the years they have been enrolled. But while there are a couple of great teachers, most have been just ok and several have been absolutely appalling. In fact, the 6th and 7th grade physics teacher just got fired after months of parent complaints and the administration acknowledging he was failing in both instruction and classroom management. The head of school had tried to tell the parents that we shouldn’t worry because he was being mentored by other teachers in the BASIS network, but whatever mentoring he was getting wasn’t doing anything. Now they have a bunch of teachers trying to cover his classes — the kids were already behind on the curriculum (which gets tested in the mid year pre comps and end of year comp exams) and this will only make it worse.

Similarly, they had to hire a 5th grade math teacher last minute last year - and they picked one who didn’t seem to have any educational experience and wasn’t a good teacher. shocking no one, this year the 6th grade class was evaluated to be behind on math (leading to a bunch of extra homework assignments as the administration apparently feels that will magically fix the problem of a year’s worth of subpar instruction).

Those are just the most egregious examples. But overall the teaching quality is not up to par, especially for a school that talks such a big game about the quality and rigor of its academics. We will not be returning next year.

PP here and also disillusioned with BASIS. Are you staying in DC or do you plan to leave the city?

Moving to Arlington.

[Anonymous]

We're planning to move between a NOVA rental and our DC place for 9th grade to avoid the BASIS hs. We've had enough of the BASIS academic straight jacket, v. uneven teaching, the lousy building and lame ECs. My eldest's best several BASIS buddies seem to be getting on the exit ramp for privates or J-R, so she's not clamoring to stay.

[Anonymous]

Attrition after middle school - why? The closest friends aren't staying for high school. This is a major "push" reason for many of the kids. If the best friends are staying and the parents want out, good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

Some families are happy to get into a charter/feeder pattern that goes through high school, because then they feel like the HS problem is solved and they don't have to think about moving their kids again.

IME, these are not the types of families that go to BASIS. BASIS attracts striver families that are willing to jump anywhere as soon as they feel like something may be better for their kid somewhere else. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just that there seems to be a greater number of families at BASIS that think this way.

[Anonymous]

The reality is that Basis takes 130ish kids in 5th grade, and by 12th grade is left with 40. that means 90 kids/families are leaving over the years -- a full 70%.

That attrition is actually crazy, and is a huge outlier. There is simply no other school in DC that is losing kids like that.