BASIS attrition after middle school- why?

[Anonymous]

Isn’t the issue that there are more decent HS seats than MS, so many families go in with the plan of leaving for 9th grade.

Attrition from 5-8 and 9-12 tells a story, but from trying to learn anything from 5-12 is laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reality is that Basis takes 130ish kids in 5th grade, and by 12th grade is left with 40. that means 90 kids/families are leaving over the years -- a full 70%.

That attrition is actually crazy, and is a huge outlier. There is simply no other school in DC that is losing kids like that.

I'm no fan of BASIS, but that's not quite how it works. They push early high school graduation, so part of the drop between 11th and 12th is attributable to that. Comparing attrition through 11th grade would be the better measure. Also, they don't always take 130ish kids. In the enrollment audit for fall 2016 (the cohort that's in 12th grade now) they only had 119 5th graders on Count Day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because BASIS isn't actually that great. High teacher turnover, inexperienced teachers, few sports and activities, and way too much time devoted to testing rather than learning. 5th and 6th are big shuffle years in the system, 7th and 8h aren't, and by 9th when people have other options, a lot of families have figured out that BASIS is a school they are happy to exit.

This x100, especially on the teaching quality. We are a current middle school family, where our child has gotten straight As for all the years they have been enrolled. But while there are a couple of great teachers, most have been just ok and several have been absolutely appalling. In fact, the 6th and 7th grade physics teacher just got fired after months of parent complaints and the administration acknowledging he was failing in both instruction and classroom management. The head of school had tried to tell the parents that we shouldn’t worry because he was being mentored by other teachers in the BASIS network, but whatever mentoring he was getting wasn’t doing anything. Now they have a bunch of teachers trying to cover his classes — the kids were already behind on the curriculum (which gets tested in the mid year pre comps and end of year comp exams) and this will only make it worse.

Similarly, they had to hire a 5th grade math teacher last minute last year - and they picked one who didn’t seem to have any educational experience and wasn’t a good teacher. shocking no one, this year the 6th grade class was evaluated to be behind on math (leading to a bunch of extra homework assignments as the administration apparently feels that will magically fix the problem of a year’s worth of subpar instruction).

Those are just the most egregious examples. But overall the teaching quality is not up to par, especially for a school that talks such a big game about the quality and rigor of its academics. We will not be returning next year.

Don’t forget the 6th grade math teacher last year who was repeatedly late coming back from lunch leaving the kids locked out of their classroom. The 7th grade kids are way behind in math this year too.

That said BASIS is better than our other choices. Our family is not wealthy and doesn’t have funds to move or pay for private.

My 7th grader isn't behind in math. She used Khan Academy to catch up on what was missed in 6th grade, the same way she's done since 3rd grade when the pandemic messed everything up. Unfortunately, this generation of kids needs to take learning in their own hands because teaching is messed up everywhere and kids are either years behind or have giant gaps because of the pandemic.

As a teacher I find your comments very depressing. The disrespect is coming from everywhere. Quality and experienced teachers don't want to teach bratty or violent children. Excellent teachers don't want to interact with over-demanding parents, who have no experience in education, apart from being a student, telling teachers how to do the job. So schools are left with whatever is out there. It will only get worse. Be glad BASIS has the teachers it has. If these bad teachers were the best candidates, think of all the other teachers, if there were any other candidates, BASIS didn't choose.

Said no great teacher, ever. The most demanding parents on earth are those paying huge dollars to send their kids to elite private schools. Weird that those are also the best schools in the U.S.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reality is that Basis takes 130ish kids in 5th grade, and by 12th grade is left with 40. that means 90 kids/families are leaving over the years -- a full 70%.

That attrition is actually crazy, and is a huge outlier. There is simply no other school in DC that is losing kids like that.

I'm no fan of BASIS, but that's not quite how it works. They push early high school graduation, so part of the drop between 11th and 12th is attributable to that. Comparing attrition through 11th grade would be the better measure. Also, they don't always take 130ish kids. In the enrollment audit for fall 2016 (the cohort that's in 12th grade now) they only had 119 5th graders on Count Day.

OK... they have 60 at 11th grade. So, still a drop of more than half of the 5th graders, and still a huge outlier regarding attrition.

[Anonymous]

If I had to guess, I'd say there's more attrition than at other schools, but there's no way to compare based just on the total numbers, because other schools replace kids who leave and Basis rarely does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reality is that Basis takes 130ish kids in 5th grade, and by 12th grade is left with 40. that means 90 kids/families are leaving over the years -- a full 70%.

That attrition is actually crazy, and is a huge outlier. There is simply no other school in DC that is losing kids like that.

I'm no fan of BASIS, but that's not quite how it works. They push early high school graduation, so part of the drop between 11th and 12th is attributable to that. Comparing attrition through 11th grade would be the better measure. Also, they don't always take 130ish kids. In the enrollment audit for fall 2016 (the cohort that's in 12th grade now) they only had 119 5th graders on Count Day.

OK... they have 60 at 11th grade. So, still a drop of more than half of the 5th graders, and still a huge outlier regarding attrition.

They don't backfill. You don't seem to grasp the concept. By your logic, Latin "loses" 24% of their kids in 9th grade when they add 18 seats. Because by your logic attrition is the (# that start)/(# enrolled). Which is silly way to look at it. Kids leaving is a feature, not a bug. Washing out kids who can't hack it is by design (that's mostly what happens between 6th-8th). Kids leaving because they want a stronger arts program or bigger campus is ok. We have school choice. Kids leaving to go to private schools is also ok. Parents have that right.

This is not the "gotcha" you think it is. Take a walk, sister.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some families are happy to get into a charter/feeder pattern that goes through high school, because then they feel like the HS problem is solved and they don't have to think about moving their kids again.

IME, these are not the types of families that go to BASIS. BASIS attracts striver families that are willing to jump anywhere as soon as they feel like something may be better for their kid somewhere else. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just that there seems to be a greater number of families at BASIS that think this way.

Striver families? More like families willing to march in step,do as their told, drink the KoolAid, put up and shut up. The free thinking and choosey "striver" families I know EotP move to the burbs for bona fide GT, strong sports,music, arts, Intl Baccalaureate, language immersion etc. or go private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some families are happy to get into a charter/feeder pattern that goes through high school, because then they feel like the HS problem is solved and they don't have to think about moving their kids again.

IME, these are not the types of families that go to BASIS. BASIS attracts striver families that are willing to jump anywhere as soon as they feel like something may be better for their kid somewhere else. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just that there seems to be a greater number of families at BASIS that think this way.

Striver families? More like families willing to march in step,do as their told, drink the KoolAid, put up and shut up. The free thinking and choosey "striver" families I know EotP move to the burbs for bona fide GT, strong sports,music, arts, Intl Baccalaureate, language immersion etc. or go private.

If the conclusion is that people leave BASIS to go to private or move to burbs then your problem isn't with BASIS it is with the entirety of DC's schools. Which is fine, but illustrates how your anger is so badly misplaced. How do you not understand this? It is also the height of entitlement to casually suggest people simply pay for private schools or move.

P.S. They aren't leaving in droves to leave the system. In fact the data on where BASIS kids move on to is all over the map, but in no grades do enough kids leave the system to be counted. Here's where kids who left BASIS went in the last released data set. Not a single school or category had a reportable number of kids.

District of Columbia International School
Deal Middle School
Stuart-Hobson Middle School (Capitol Hill Cluster)
Jefferson Middle School Academy
The Sojourner Truth School PCS
Washington Latin PCS - Anna Julia Cooper Middle School
Not in audit
Washington Global PCS
Capitol Hill Montessori School @ Logan
Deal Middle School
Eliot-Hine Middle School
Sousa Middle School
Stuart-Hobson Middle School (Capitol Hill Cluster)
Digital Pioneers Academy PCS - Johenning
Two Rivers PCS - Young Middle School
Not in audit
District of Columbia International School
Deal Middle School
Eliot-Hine Middle School
Stuart-Hobson Middle School (Capitol Hill Cluster)
Jefferson Middle School Academy
Not in audit
Coolidge High School
School Without Walls High School
Duke Ellington School of the Arts
Not in audit

[Anonymous]

Your post is hard to follow. We left BASIS for a suburban school in 9th grade without telling DC public where we were going. Easily done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your post is hard to follow. We left BASIS for a suburban school in 9th grade without telling DC public where we were going. Easily done.

It would show up as "Not in Audit" whether you told them or not. It's enrollment audit data.

The point is, BASIS did not have ten kids from any single grade go to any single destination the following year, looking at SY 21-22 to SY 22-23. Not even "not in audit" which is the category that captures all private and out of state schools combined. It didn't lose any kids at all to any other DCPS school after 9th grade.

I do think if they ran the data for all grades combined, there might be 10 kids leaving for Deal and 10 for Stuart-Hobson, since those schools have some exits in all three grade levels.

https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways

[Anonymous]

If you’re trying to decide if BASIS is right for your individual student, for middle school or for high school, it does not help at all to look at the overall class sizes and how they shrink over the years.

As has been pointed out a couple times already on this thread and countless times on other threads: (1) BASIS’s student body size is capped based on the capacity of the building; (2) BASIS does not backfill; (3) BASIS does not socially promote; and (4) BASIS is 100% lottery admission. This means students begin attending BASIS in 5th grade (almost always) without having to first demonstrate any academic background, then experience an academically rigorous program/HW time commitment, and subsequently realize the program may or may not be a good fit. If students leave, they are essentially never replaced - not because others wouldn’t want to come to BASIS, but because BASIS almost never admits off the lottery beyond 5th grade as matter of policy.

Students who remain at the school seemingly inevitably found their place academically and socially. Most parents wouldn’t try to move a happy kid to a different school. An unhappy kid (unhappy for whatever reason) is likely not going to stay (unless parents really feel like they are stuck in which case they will just make the best of it).

Academic success + great friends = likelihood student remains for high school.
Whether BASIS works out or doesn’t work out in the long run for other people is not necessarily going to tell you whether your individual student will be happy there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you’re trying to decide if BASIS is right for your individual student, for middle school or for high school, it does not help at all to look at the overall class sizes and how they shrink over the years.

As has been pointed out a couple times already on this thread and countless times on other threads: (1) BASIS’s student body size is capped based on the capacity of the building; (2) BASIS does not backfill; (3) BASIS does not socially promote; and (4) BASIS is 100% lottery admission. This means students begin attending BASIS in 5th grade (almost always) without having to first demonstrate any academic background, then experience an academically rigorous program/HW time commitment, and subsequently realize the program may or may not be a good fit. If students leave, they are essentially never replaced - not because others wouldn’t want to come to BASIS, but because BASIS almost never admits off the lottery beyond 5th grade as matter of policy.

Students who remain at the school seemingly inevitably found their place academically and socially. Most parents wouldn’t try to move a happy kid to a different school. An unhappy kid (unhappy for whatever reason) is likely not going to stay (unless parents really feel like they are stuck in which case they will just make the best of it).

Academic success + great friends = likelihood student remains for high school.
Whether BASIS works out or doesn’t work out in the long run for other people is not necessarily going to tell you whether your individual student will be happy there.

Yawn. BASIS exceptionalism is never-ending on DCUM.

The building isn't a good fit for any living pre-teen or teen. High annual teacher turnover, semi-competent leadership and a large cohort of inexperienced, poorly trained, paid and supported middle school teachers isn't a good fit for any kid either. It's not uncommon for a family to enroll, hope for the best for their straight-A student only to become disillusioned over time because BASIS DC isn't all that great. No, students who remain at the school don't inevitably find their place academically and socially. What often happens is that their parents are unwilling, unable or some combination to line up a good alternative for them. It's not unusual for BASIS 9th graders to re-enroll after failing to crack Walls, or to get the fi aid a family was hoping for at privates. Avoiding going in wearing rose-colored glasses, I'm with you there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re trying to decide if BASIS is right for your individual student, for middle school or for high school, it does not help at all to look at the overall class sizes and how they shrink over the years.

As has been pointed out a couple times already on this thread and countless times on other threads: (1) BASIS’s student body size is capped based on the capacity of the building; (2) BASIS does not backfill; (3) BASIS does not socially promote; and (4) BASIS is 100% lottery admission. This means students begin attending BASIS in 5th grade (almost always) without having to first demonstrate any academic background, then experience an academically rigorous program/HW time commitment, and subsequently realize the program may or may not be a good fit. If students leave, they are essentially never replaced - not because others wouldn’t want to come to BASIS, but because BASIS almost never admits off the lottery beyond 5th grade as matter of policy.

Students who remain at the school seemingly inevitably found their place academically and socially. Most parents wouldn’t try to move a happy kid to a different school. An unhappy kid (unhappy for whatever reason) is likely not going to stay (unless parents really feel like they are stuck in which case they will just make the best of it).

Academic success + great friends = likelihood student remains for high school.
Whether BASIS works out or doesn’t work out in the long run for other people is not necessarily going to tell you whether your individual student will be happy there.

Yawn. BASIS exceptionalism is never-ending on DCUM.

The building isn't a good fit for any living pre-teen or teen. High annual teacher turnover, semi-competent leadership and a large cohort of inexperienced, poorly trained, paid and supported middle school teachers isn't a good fit for any kid either. It's not uncommon for a family to enroll, hope for the best for their straight-A student only to become disillusioned over time because BASIS DC isn't all that great. No, students who remain at the school don't inevitably find their place academically and socially. What often happens is that their parents are unwilling, unable or some combination to line up a good alternative for them. It's not unusual for BASIS 9th graders to re-enroll after failing to crack Walls, or to get the fi aid a family was hoping for at privates. Avoiding going in wearing rose-colored glasses, I'm with you there.

This. Sure, some kids can't handle BASIS academically. Fine. Giving them a bad experience isn't really something to be proud of, but you do you. But BASIS' attrition is truly massive, and it's not all because of that. Weak rookie teachers, terrible building, autocratic leadership at the beck and call of headquarters, near-total lack of sports, arts, and other activities, and not-that-great academic performance are all reasons people leave. BASIS' PARCC scores aren't really that great considering what they've had to sacrifice in the budget and what they've had to do to the kids to obtain them. I don't think high-income kids on grade level is some new pedagogical breakthrough. People leave BASIS because it isn't that great, and they see the writing on the wall that they're going to end up with a depressingly tiny cohort later in high school.

[Anonymous]

Ok, so I think using enrollment audit data and the Edscape graphic here is what I pulled together.

In SY 21-22, BASIS had 129 5th graders. 115 continued to 6th grade at BASIS for SY 22-23. 89% retention.

Of 115 6th graders in SY 21-22 (it's just a coincidence that it's 115 here and also above, they aren't the same kids), 89 continued to 7th grade at BASIS for SY 22-23. 77% retention.

Of 100 7th graders, 85 continued to 8th at BASIS. 85%.

Of 92 8th graders, 78 continued to 9th at BASIS. 85%.

Of 53 9th graders, 50 continued to 10th at BASIS. 94%.

Of 65 10th graders, 63 continued to 11th-- 97%.

Of 44 11th graders, 42 continued to 12th-- 95%.

It's so interesting that the retention of 6th graders into 7th is the lowest, I was thinking 5th into 6th would be low because that's an entry year for Deal, Hardy, and Stuart-Hobson.

[Anonymous]

The lower retention from 6th to 7th grade is likely because 6th grade is the first year of comprehensive exams. 5th grade is relatively easy and usually a great year at BASIS for many kids without the greater pressures of the later years. Families probably don’t anticipate their student doing poorly on the comprehensives and then when it happens in 6th grade, and they face the prospect of repeating a grade, they switch out for 7th grade. BASIS did accept three new 7th grade students this year seemingly because of that larger attrition from 6th to 7th grade.