Banned books at Jackson-Reed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all related in part to how the left cannot cope with free speech & the fact that Hamas is deeply anti-semitic at the same time that Gazan civilians are suffering from Israeli bombs and Hamas is terrorizing Israel. They just want there to be slogans where one side is obviously right and good, to the point where it can be openly advocated for even by public institutions like school as “social justice.”

But confronting an issue where there is actually more than one claim to justice? The wheels fall off! To the point that they cannot even deal with discussing it.

Truly pathetic, pathetic thing to see at what is supposedly the best HS in DC.

I am to the "left" and I support Israel's right to existence, the right to criticize Hamas (and Israel) and do not believe in banning free speech. So, as we normally do in teaching--avoid sweeping generalizations.

Very few on the left have a consistent position on free speech. And Jackson-Reed evidently cannot cope with the existence of ambiguity. Maybe “left” isn’t exactly the right term - more the creeping politicization of curriculum.

You seem confused. All attempts to ban books and discussion of sensitive topics that I’m aware of come from the right.

- Florida has banned discussion of families that include gay people in public schools.
- Police recently descended on a middle school out west to search it for books that might include content about LGBT experience.
- Moms for Liberty and similar groups have successfully pushed for books to be banned all over the country.
- many jurisdictions in red states require public employees to promise not to support boycotts of Israel in order to keep their jobs.

As for anti-Semitism, it’s hard for me to imagine that anyone who was in DC when Trump supporters papered the city with vile anti-Semitic stickers as well as wearing T-shirts saying things like “6 million wasn’t enough” is confused about what part of the American political spectrum is anti-Semitic.

Ha sure. It’s not even hard: https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/11/03/to-kill-a-mockingbird-book-ban-removal-washington/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JR did the right thing. You all are freaking out about nothing. And the title of this thread is deliberately misleading which is disgusting to me. I agree that JR can handle sensitive discussions between students and teachers but parents often suck and cause problems where none exist

The parents aren’t freaking out. The teachers freaked out unnecessarily and therein lies the problem and implicit bias here. What parents would have freaked out or caused a fuss if they went ahead with the lesson on time about the Holocaust as planned? What would the objection have been?No one has yet to tell me what the Holocaust has to do with the current situation in Gaza. Go ahead - I’ll wait.

Yes - the parents are freaking out and they are the ones causing the problems here. Coupled with the fact that DCPS Central refuses to give any guidance which the school wants so they know they are covered. I put this one squarely on parents who don't want their kids to be upset. I am totally against antisemitism but hard discussions can happen. Look at our political divisions - no one can actually listen to the other side and consider their points.

There. Are. Not. Two. Sides. To. The. Holocaust. Why is this so hard for so many of you?

No one has suggested there are two sides to the Holocaust. And do was has equated Israel's actions to the Nazis -- that's a straw man argument.

But there are a range of views on the specific issues in the current Israel/Hamas conflict.

For example, a PP earlier in the thread has said the "truth" is that Israel "is not deliberately targeting civilians." Yet people do have different views on what level of collateral damage is acceptable when responding to terrorism -- where is the line between unavoidable and negligent?

There are not clear answers to that, and if the idea is that Israel's government and policies are above question due to past history, then a community-wide conversation is not possible.

Ok …. but the “postponed”
books are about the Holocaust. Not Israel. Not Gaza.

It’s starting to dawn on me that people actually believe that deploring the Holocaust is the same thing as Zionism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JR did the right thing. You all are freaking out about nothing. And the title of this thread is deliberately misleading which is disgusting to me. I agree that JR can handle sensitive discussions between students and teachers but parents often suck and cause problems where none exist

The parents aren’t freaking out. The teachers freaked out unnecessarily and therein lies the problem and implicit bias here. What parents would have freaked out or caused a fuss if they went ahead with the lesson on time about the Holocaust as planned? What would the objection have been?No one has yet to tell me what the Holocaust has to do with the current situation in Gaza. Go ahead - I’ll wait.

Yes - the parents are freaking out and they are the ones causing the problems here. Coupled with the fact that DCPS Central refuses to give any guidance which the school wants so they know they are covered. I put this one squarely on parents who don't want their kids to be upset. I am totally against antisemitism but hard discussions can happen. Look at our political divisions - no one can actually listen to the other side and consider their points.

There. Are. Not. Two. Sides. To. The. Holocaust. Why is this so hard for so many of you?

No one has suggested there are two sides to the Holocaust. And do was has equated Israel's actions to the Nazis -- that's a straw man argument.

But there are a range of views on the specific issues in the current Israel/Hamas conflict.

For example, a PP earlier in the thread has said the "truth" is that Israel "is not deliberately targeting civilians." Yet people do have different views on what level of collateral damage is acceptable when responding to terrorism -- where is the line between unavoidable and negligent?

There are not clear answers to that, and if the idea is that Israel's government and policies are above question due to past history, then a community-wide conversation is not possible.

Ok …. but the “postponed”
books are about the Holocaust. Not Israel. Not Gaza.

It’s starting to dawn on me that people actually believe that deploring the Holocaust is the same thing as Zionism.

This was discussed above. It's obtuse to think the Holocaust can be discussed at this time without also discussing current events.

I'm fine with both getting discussed. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that the same people who are offended by any postponement of the Holocaust books would also be upset with hearing diverse perspectives about the current conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JR did the right thing. You all are freaking out about nothing. And the title of this thread is deliberately misleading which is disgusting to me. I agree that JR can handle sensitive discussions between students and teachers but parents often suck and cause problems where none exist

The parents aren’t freaking out. The teachers freaked out unnecessarily and therein lies the problem and implicit bias here. What parents would have freaked out or caused a fuss if they went ahead with the lesson on time about the Holocaust as planned? What would the objection have been?No one has yet to tell me what the Holocaust has to do with the current situation in Gaza. Go ahead - I’ll wait.

Yes - the parents are freaking out and they are the ones causing the problems here. Coupled with the fact that DCPS Central refuses to give any guidance which the school wants so they know they are covered. I put this one squarely on parents who don't want their kids to be upset. I am totally against antisemitism but hard discussions can happen. Look at our political divisions - no one can actually listen to the other side and consider their points.

There. Are. Not. Two. Sides. To. The. Holocaust. Why is this so hard for so many of you?

No one has suggested there are two sides to the Holocaust. And do was has equated Israel's actions to the Nazis -- that's a straw man argument.

But there are a range of views on the specific issues in the current Israel/Hamas conflict.

For example, a PP earlier in the thread has said the "truth" is that Israel "is not deliberately targeting civilians." Yet people do have different views on what level of collateral damage is acceptable when responding to terrorism -- where is the line between unavoidable and negligent?

There are not clear answers to that, and if the idea is that Israel's government and policies are above question due to past history, then a community-wide conversation is not possible.

Which NOTHING to do with the holocaust, other than Jewish people are involved. You are saying "no one is doing that" and then doing precisely that! The precise analog here is to suggest that we should cancel black history month and all discussion of slavery because non-black folks are a bit emotional about DEI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If JR teachers don't think they can teach these books in the fall, I would rather they come together on January 2nd and decided collectively how they will approach teaching them. At least there is an opportunity to address the internal bias that will be brought into the classroom and address it head on. I worry more about an individual teacher's bias more than the delay.

Probably not enough time The second half of the DCPS school year is programmed for black history content. Starts with MLK weekend, then BLM Week of Action, then black history month, then DC Emancipation Day, and concludes with Juneteenth.

There are a lot of white folks all up in their feelings about DEI. Probably best to not teach slavery or the treatment of blacks in America until the moment passes where white folks aren't mad. Amiright?

Nope. Just up in our feelings about DEI that purposefully excludes Jews

As a Jew, I fully support DEI work, as does every Jew and Jewish organization that I’m aware of.

I think you are a troll engaging in the time honored custom of trying to divide and conquer non-white people. STFU.

Nope. Not a troll. I fully support DEI too but see now that it doesn’t include Jews insofar as dcps is concerned. For example, why is it that my first grader in dcps went to an assembly led by Doyin Richards titled “the anti - racist fight club” (which I did not oppose) but the Holocaust is too controversial now for High schoolers to learn?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JR did the right thing. You all are freaking out about nothing. And the title of this thread is deliberately misleading which is disgusting to me. I agree that JR can handle sensitive discussions between students and teachers but parents often suck and cause problems where none exist

The parents aren’t freaking out. The teachers freaked out unnecessarily and therein lies the problem and implicit bias here. What parents would have freaked out or caused a fuss if they went ahead with the lesson on time about the Holocaust as planned? What would the objection have been?No one has yet to tell me what the Holocaust has to do with the current situation in Gaza. Go ahead - I’ll wait.

Yes - the parents are freaking out and they are the ones causing the problems here. Coupled with the fact that DCPS Central refuses to give any guidance which the school wants so they know they are covered. I put this one squarely on parents who don't want their kids to be upset. I am totally against antisemitism but hard discussions can happen. Look at our political divisions - no one can actually listen to the other side and consider their points.

There. Are. Not. Two. Sides. To. The. Holocaust. Why is this so hard for so many of you?

No one has suggested there are two sides to the Holocaust. And do was has equated Israel's actions to the Nazis -- that's a straw man argument.

But there are a range of views on the specific issues in the current Israel/Hamas conflict.

For example, a PP earlier in the thread has said the "truth" is that Israel "is not deliberately targeting civilians." Yet people do have different views on what level of collateral damage is acceptable when responding to terrorism -- where is the line between unavoidable and negligent?

There are not clear answers to that, and if the idea is that Israel's government and policies are above question due to past history, then a community-wide conversation is not possible.

Ok …. but the “postponed”
books are about the Holocaust. Not Israel. Not Gaza.

It’s starting to dawn on me that people actually believe that deploring the Holocaust is the same thing as Zionism.

This was discussed above. It's obtuse to think the Holocaust can be discussed at this time without also discussing current events.

I'm fine with both getting discussed. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that the same people who are offended by any postponement of the Holocaust books would also be upset with hearing diverse perspectives about the current conflict.

The only way you can equate the Holocaust with the current conflict is by saying, "well, they both involve Jews." The subtext here is that the rightness or wrongness of the Holocaust changes based on current events. The other subtext here is that maybe the Jews had it coming. Or it was ok because look what the Jews are doing now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JR did the right thing. You all are freaking out about nothing. And the title of this thread is deliberately misleading which is disgusting to me. I agree that JR can handle sensitive discussions between students and teachers but parents often suck and cause problems where none exist

The parents aren’t freaking out. The teachers freaked out unnecessarily and therein lies the problem and implicit bias here. What parents would have freaked out or caused a fuss if they went ahead with the lesson on time about the Holocaust as planned? What would the objection have been?No one has yet to tell me what the Holocaust has to do with the current situation in Gaza. Go ahead - I’ll wait.

Yes - the parents are freaking out and they are the ones causing the problems here. Coupled with the fact that DCPS Central refuses to give any guidance which the school wants so they know they are covered. I put this one squarely on parents who don't want their kids to be upset. I am totally against antisemitism but hard discussions can happen. Look at our political divisions - no one can actually listen to the other side and consider their points.

There. Are. Not. Two. Sides. To. The. Holocaust. Why is this so hard for so many of you?

No one has suggested there are two sides to the Holocaust. And do was has equated Israel's actions to the Nazis -- that's a straw man argument.

But there are a range of views on the specific issues in the current Israel/Hamas conflict.

For example, a PP earlier in the thread has said the "truth" is that Israel "is not deliberately targeting civilians." Yet people do have different views on what level of collateral damage is acceptable when responding to terrorism -- where is the line between unavoidable and negligent?

There are not clear answers to that, and if the idea is that Israel's government and policies are above question due to past history, then a community-wide conversation is not possible.

Ok …. but the “postponed”
books are about the Holocaust. Not Israel. Not Gaza.

It’s starting to dawn on me that people actually believe that deploring the Holocaust is the same thing as Zionism.

This was discussed above. It's obtuse to think the Holocaust can be discussed at this time without also discussing current events.

I'm fine with both getting discussed. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that the same people who are offended by any postponement of the Holocaust books would also be upset with hearing diverse perspectives about the current conflict.

Hard disagree.

[Anonymous]

Others have rightly pointed out that these are English-class books, not history books. Opting to postpone reading those books until the Spring (which is the official word from the school) does not mean that the history classes will not learn about the holocaust when they discuss World War II.

This is like saying that since the English class will not read A Farewell to Arms, somehow that means kids will not learn about World War I in history.

Not sure why everyone is conflating the two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Others have rightly pointed out that these are English-class books, not history books. Opting to postpone reading those books until the Spring (which is the official word from the school) does not mean that the history classes will not learn about the holocaust when they discuss World War II.

This is like saying that since the English class will not read A Farewell to Arms, somehow that means kids will not learn about World War I in history.

Not sure why everyone is conflating the two.

I rarely side with JR but they actually did the right thing here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JR did the right thing. You all are freaking out about nothing. And the title of this thread is deliberately misleading which is disgusting to me. I agree that JR can handle sensitive discussions between students and teachers but parents often suck and cause problems where none exist

The parents aren’t freaking out. The teachers freaked out unnecessarily and therein lies the problem and implicit bias here. What parents would have freaked out or caused a fuss if they went ahead with the lesson on time about the Holocaust as planned? What would the objection have been?No one has yet to tell me what the Holocaust has to do with the current situation in Gaza. Go ahead - I’ll wait.

Yes - the parents are freaking out and they are the ones causing the problems here. Coupled with the fact that DCPS Central refuses to give any guidance which the school wants so they know they are covered. I put this one squarely on parents who don't want their kids to be upset. I am totally against antisemitism but hard discussions can happen. Look at our political divisions - no one can actually listen to the other side and consider their points.

There. Are. Not. Two. Sides. To. The. Holocaust. Why is this so hard for so many of you?

No one has suggested there are two sides to the Holocaust. And do was has equated Israel's actions to the Nazis -- that's a straw man argument.

But there are a range of views on the specific issues in the current Israel/Hamas conflict.

For example, a PP earlier in the thread has said the "truth" is that Israel "is not deliberately targeting civilians." Yet people do have different views on what level of collateral damage is acceptable when responding to terrorism -- where is the line between unavoidable and negligent?

There are not clear answers to that, and if the idea is that Israel's government and policies are above question due to past history, then a community-wide conversation is not possible.

Having a current affairs/philosophy:law of war discussion in high schools about “what level of collateral damage is acceptable when responding to terrorism” also sounds like a reasonable thing and an important one. Indeed there are a range of views, and multiple things are true: Hamas wants to destroy Israel and kill Jews worldwide; Palestinian civilians are being killed as Israel fights terrorism; some people think Israel doesn’t have a right to exist; some people think that is anti-Semitism. Schools should not avoid current events and they should not avoid history. It looks like JR is avoiding both…and that is not serving anyone well. It’s probably also disturbing to Jewish families, as if there is something “controversial” about the Holocaust. The school is sending a very negative message with this move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Others have rightly pointed out that these are English-class books, not history books. Opting to postpone reading those books until the Spring (which is the official word from the school) does not mean that the history classes will not learn about the holocaust when they discuss World War II.

This is like saying that since the English class will not read A Farewell to Arms, somehow that means kids will not learn about World War I in history.

Not sure why everyone is conflating the two.

Huh? Nobody is conflating the two. We are asking why it is suddenly impossible to teach Holocaust literature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If JR teachers don't think they can teach these books in the fall, I would rather they come together on January 2nd and decided collectively how they will approach teaching them. At least there is an opportunity to address the internal bias that will be brought into the classroom and address it head on. I worry more about an individual teacher's bias more than the delay.

Probably not enough time The second half of the DCPS school year is programmed for black history content. Starts with MLK weekend, then BLM Week of Action, then black history month, then DC Emancipation Day, and concludes with Juneteenth.

There are a lot of white folks all up in their feelings about DEI. Probably best to not teach slavery or the treatment of blacks in America until the moment passes where white folks aren't mad. Amiright?

Nope. Just up in our feelings about DEI that purposefully excludes Jews

As a Jew, I fully support DEI work, as does every Jew and Jewish organization that I’m aware of.

I think you are a troll engaging in the time honored custom of trying to divide and conquer non-white people. STFU.

DCPS doesn’t care about DEI in the way you do. Because there is really only one diversity group of interest. As you will see in a few weeks DCPS is very interested in BLM, which had a very clear position on the current conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Others have rightly pointed out that these are English-class books, not history books. Opting to postpone reading those books until the Spring (which is the official word from the school) does not mean that the history classes will not learn about the holocaust when they discuss World War II.

This is like saying that since the English class will not read A Farewell to Arms, somehow that means kids will not learn about World War I in history.

Not sure why everyone is conflating the two.

Huh? Nobody is conflating the two. We are asking why it is suddenly impossible to teach Holocaust literature.

Well, the vast majority of responses indicate that kids will not learn about the holocaust. That is simply not true.

[Anonymous]

DCPS and now Florida:
https://www.jta.org/2023/12/21/united-states/florida-district-pulls-many-jewish-and-holocaust-books-including-saul-bellows-herzog-and-black-white-and-jewish

[Anonymous]

The only way you can equate the Holocaust with the current conflict is by saying, "well, they both involve Jews." The subtext here is that the rightness or wrongness of the Holocaust changes based on current events. The other subtext here is that maybe the Jews had it coming. Or it was ok because look what the Jews are doing now.

This. It’s a very dangerous subtext and as someone whose family was practically annihilated by the Holocaust, I find this subtext scary and threatening. Why doesn’t anyone care about my people’s generational trauma?