AAP should be eliminated as it’s not the path to equity

[Anonymous]

I know of very wealthy parents who prepped their kids and their kids didn’t get in. They just didn’t cut it- despite the extra prepping, the added testing- the schools said “no.”

I get that the stigma is that only rich kids get into AAP. I see some of that. I also see poor kids get into it too. I also see a lot of middle class white parents not getting into it.

But what is the equalizer: the kid wants to be there. The kid wants to learn.

And the kid can handle the work load.

I get that a lot of parents hate it. But without it-FCPS would not be a juggernaut it is. You take it away: you get Stafford county schools. People will move and just abandon the area.

So what can you do if your precious snowflake doesn’t get in?

Continue to supplement and prep at home. By middle school- it all goes away and your kid can get into the honors classes and you can see if they really are gifted like you think they are or if they are not, like they think they are. And it really does become a wash.

It’s not about equity. AAP never was designed for that. It was designed to attract type A parents to the area to build a tax base that is robust enough to attract businesses and money.

You want equity: move to Montgomery county and see the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there's another angle to this that gets missed a lot. One of the big complaints to any form of specialized opportunities for "advanced" kids (honors/advanced classes, AAP, G&T, anything) is that you end up a cohort of kids in the advanced track who are richer and whiter and so it's seen as a form of segregation. I think this is a reasonable concern. Segregation in housing and in educational opportunities is a huge problem in the US, and has been an ongoing problem since before Civil Rights. This is something we need to try to address.

But simplistic ideas like getting rid of AAP are missing the bigger picture. Yes, you can segregate kids within a school, and that's not good. But what's worse than that is to segregate kids into different schools. And what's worse than that is to segregate kids into completely different communities.

If a diverse school in a diverse community offers an advanced option that is somewhat segregated, and then they simply remove that advanced option to avoid segregation in the name of equity, some of the parents whose kids were or would be in the advanced option may choose a different school if they have that option. They may move into a neighborhood where the gen ed educational path has more rigor, if they can afford it. Those schools and neighborhoods are likely to be richer and whiter, exacerbating the problem.

Removing an AAP program that's 75% white from a school that's 75% students of color, but then causing most of those white kids (over time) to decamp to adjacent mostly white school districts, INCREASES segregation. No, you won't have the visual anymore of gen ed classes filled with students of color and the AAP classes filled with white kids. But those kids will be even more segregated, going to completely different schools and living in completely different neighborhoods.

So to me, the better option is to dig deeper into causes of inequality and try to address them. If there's a test for admission, don't allow families with resources to retake or try another option or talk their kids into the program. But maybe, allow at risk kids whose scores are slightly below the cutoff to join the advanced track. Provide high-quality early education programs. Make sure that special needs are addressed for all kids. These kinds of changes are much more expensive and complex than "end AAP because of segregation" but they're a better path to equity in the long run.

Not just better- the only path that makes sense.

It’s also important to note- people will move without AAP. Young families can’t afford this area to begin with. Without AAP to attract the young wealthy families- people will just move to Loudoun, WV or RVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you restrict AAP, or anything else, only to poor people, then rich people will have more of it because that's what "rich" means.

If you want to hurt rich people, just raise taxes. Don't dumb down all of society.

They’re trying to help the rich.

Dumb down society and the rich will flourish without competition. They will still get their services elsewhere and society will fall behind.

It’s a win win for the rich and the private school establishment.

Do you seriously believe this or are you just posting nonsense?

Whether it achieves the goal or not (and many in this the think it does not), they are trying to help the poor and underrepresented.

The school board and administration are not trying to help the rich and private schools by purposefully harming the non-rich. Not even Machiavelli was that Machiavellian.

How are they helping the poor?

Please do tell!

Just because that’s what they hope to achieve doesn’t absolve them from being held responsible for the damage they are causing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's another angle to this that gets missed a lot. One of the big complaints to any form of specialized opportunities for "advanced" kids (honors/advanced classes, AAP, G&T, anything) is that you end up a cohort of kids in the advanced track who are richer and whiter and so it's seen as a form of segregation. I think this is a reasonable concern. Segregation in housing and in educational opportunities is a huge problem in the US, and has been an ongoing problem since before Civil Rights. This is something we need to try to address.

But simplistic ideas like getting rid of AAP are missing the bigger picture. Yes, you can segregate kids within a school, and that's not good. But what's worse than that is to segregate kids into different schools. And what's worse than that is to segregate kids into completely different communities.

If a diverse school in a diverse community offers an advanced option that is somewhat segregated, and then they simply remove that advanced option to avoid segregation in the name of equity, some of the parents whose kids were or would be in the advanced option may choose a different school if they have that option. They may move into a neighborhood where the gen ed educational path has more rigor, if they can afford it. Those schools and neighborhoods are likely to be richer and whiter, exacerbating the problem.

Removing an AAP program that's 75% white from a school that's 75% students of color, but then causing most of those white kids (over time) to decamp to adjacent mostly white school districts, INCREASES segregation. No, you won't have the visual anymore of gen ed classes filled with students of color and the AAP classes filled with white kids. But those kids will be even more segregated, going to completely different schools and living in completely different neighborhoods.

So to me, the better option is to dig deeper into causes of inequality and try to address them. If there's a test for admission, don't allow families with resources to retake or try another option or talk their kids into the program. But maybe, allow at risk kids whose scores are slightly below the cutoff to join the advanced track. Provide high-quality early education programs. Make sure that special needs are addressed for all kids. These kinds of changes are much more expensive and complex than "end AAP because of segregation" but they're a better path to equity in the long run.

Not just better- the only path that makes sense.

It’s also important to note- people will move without AAP. Young families can’t afford this area to begin with. Without AAP to attract the young wealthy families- people will just move to Loudoun, WV or RVA.

No parent obsessed with school performance is moving to WV. That is not happening.

We need to shift what we think of as an equitable outcome, it isn’t that every kid is able to take AP classes and get a 5. That is never going to happen because there are different abilities and that is fine.

What we are talking about is kids ability to access an education that will allow them to succeed, graduate with solid skills, and go to college or get a job. The truth is that the education gap exists because some parents read to their kids, do math with their kids, and have higher educational expectations for their kids. Some families don’t do these things or have these goals.

There are families of generational poor people. No one in the family has graduated from high school. It isn’t important to the family. The parents don’t worry about their kids attending. They are not reading to their kids. They are not supplementing math. Why would they? Their parents didn’t do those things for them. Their grandparents didn’t do it for their parents. And back it goes.

Most of the families that immigrate to the US for low wage jobs are coming from places where school is not a priority. Their communities don’t have strong schools. Attendance is not important. School really is not a thing there. Their kids come with the parents to the US with limited to no education. The parents have limited to no education. And we expect those kids and parents to embrace regular attendance, homework, and graduation?

Some families are coming to the US from cultures that strongly value education that is not as available to their kids. Maybe it is where they live in the country or the where they fit in society but they cannot access the schools that they want. They come to the US to give their kids those opportunities and improve their lives. Those are the parents who are busting their butts to get their kids into school and programs like AAP. They value education in a way that most native born Americans don’t.

Everything we are talking about here does nothing to help the first two groups of poor kids. And the reality is that what we do is not likely to have a huge effect on those kids because their parents don’t care. Short of making school year round and 10 hours a day so that those kids are at school, surrounded by Teachers and Admin that value education most of their day, we are not going to reach them. The inclusive classrooms and attempts like it are about optics. We don’t want to admit that there are groups of kids that we cannot reach.

[Anonymous]

I'm starting to think West Virginia is better than this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's another angle to this that gets missed a lot. One of the big complaints to any form of specialized opportunities for "advanced" kids (honors/advanced classes, AAP, G&T, anything) is that you end up a cohort of kids in the advanced track who are richer and whiter and so it's seen as a form of segregation. I think this is a reasonable concern. Segregation in housing and in educational opportunities is a huge problem in the US, and has been an ongoing problem since before Civil Rights. This is something we need to try to address.

But simplistic ideas like getting rid of AAP are missing the bigger picture. Yes, you can segregate kids within a school, and that's not good. But what's worse than that is to segregate kids into different schools. And what's worse than that is to segregate kids into completely different communities.

If a diverse school in a diverse community offers an advanced option that is somewhat segregated, and then they simply remove that advanced option to avoid segregation in the name of equity, some of the parents whose kids were or would be in the advanced option may choose a different school if they have that option. They may move into a neighborhood where the gen ed educational path has more rigor, if they can afford it. Those schools and neighborhoods are likely to be richer and whiter, exacerbating the problem.

Removing an AAP program that's 75% white from a school that's 75% students of color, but then causing most of those white kids (over time) to decamp to adjacent mostly white school districts, INCREASES segregation. No, you won't have the visual anymore of gen ed classes filled with students of color and the AAP classes filled with white kids. But those kids will be even more segregated, going to completely different schools and living in completely different neighborhoods.

So to me, the better option is to dig deeper into causes of inequality and try to address them. If there's a test for admission, don't allow families with resources to retake or try another option or talk their kids into the program. But maybe, allow at risk kids whose scores are slightly below the cutoff to join the advanced track. Provide high-quality early education programs. Make sure that special needs are addressed for all kids. These kinds of changes are much more expensive and complex than "end AAP because of segregation" but they're a better path to equity in the long run.

Not just better- the only path that makes sense.

It’s also important to note- people will move without AAP. Young families can’t afford this area to begin with. Without AAP to attract the young wealthy families- people will just move to Loudoun, WV or RVA.

No parent obsessed with school performance is moving to WV. That is not happening.

We need to shift what we think of as an equitable outcome, it isn’t that every kid is able to take AP classes and get a 5. That is never going to happen because there are different abilities and that is fine.

What we are talking about is kids ability to access an education that will allow them to succeed, graduate with solid skills, and go to college or get a job. The truth is that the education gap exists because some parents read to their kids, do math with their kids, and have higher educational expectations for their kids. Some families don’t do these things or have these goals.

There are families of generational poor people. No one in the family has graduated from high school. It isn’t important to the family. The parents don’t worry about their kids attending. They are not reading to their kids. They are not supplementing math. Why would they? Their parents didn’t do those things for them. Their grandparents didn’t do it for their parents. And back it goes.

Most of the families that immigrate to the US for low wage jobs are coming from places where school is not a priority. Their communities don’t have strong schools. Attendance is not important. School really is not a thing there. Their kids come with the parents to the US with limited to no education. The parents have limited to no education. And we expect those kids and parents to embrace regular attendance, homework, and graduation?

Some families are coming to the US from cultures that strongly value education that is not as available to their kids. Maybe it is where they live in the country or the where they fit in society but they cannot access the schools that they want. They come to the US to give their kids those opportunities and improve their lives. Those are the parents who are busting their butts to get their kids into school and programs like AAP. They value education in a way that most native born Americans don’t.

Everything we are talking about here does nothing to help the first two groups of poor kids. And the reality is that what we do is not likely to have a huge effect on those kids because their parents don’t care. Short of making school year round and 10 hours a day so that those kids are at school, surrounded by Teachers and Admin that value education most of their day, we are not going to reach them. The inclusive classrooms and attempts like it are about optics. We don’t want to admit that there are groups of kids that we cannot reach.

I think you can reach them but it's silly to expect all graduates to want to go to college. That should not be the goal. We should educate people to be responsible and have a job and a family and get along with others. There are plenty of jobs that don't need a college degree and there is no reason why we have to make that equitable for all other than monetarily.

[Anonymous]

Is AAP created for equity? I don't think so.

Should AAP consider equity? Absolutely.

Should AAP be eliminated because it is not equitable? Absolutely not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's another angle to this that gets missed a lot. One of the big complaints to any form of specialized opportunities for "advanced" kids (honors/advanced classes, AAP, G&T, anything) is that you end up a cohort of kids in the advanced track who are richer and whiter and so it's seen as a form of segregation. I think this is a reasonable concern. Segregation in housing and in educational opportunities is a huge problem in the US, and has been an ongoing problem since before Civil Rights. This is something we need to try to address.

But simplistic ideas like getting rid of AAP are missing the bigger picture. Yes, you can segregate kids within a school, and that's not good. But what's worse than that is to segregate kids into different schools. And what's worse than that is to segregate kids into completely different communities.

If a diverse school in a diverse community offers an advanced option that is somewhat segregated, and then they simply remove that advanced option to avoid segregation in the name of equity, some of the parents whose kids were or would be in the advanced option may choose a different school if they have that option. They may move into a neighborhood where the gen ed educational path has more rigor, if they can afford it. Those schools and neighborhoods are likely to be richer and whiter, exacerbating the problem.

Removing an AAP program that's 75% white from a school that's 75% students of color, but then causing most of those white kids (over time) to decamp to adjacent mostly white school districts, INCREASES segregation. No, you won't have the visual anymore of gen ed classes filled with students of color and the AAP classes filled with white kids. But those kids will be even more segregated, going to completely different schools and living in completely different neighborhoods.

So to me, the better option is to dig deeper into causes of inequality and try to address them. If there's a test for admission, don't allow families with resources to retake or try another option or talk their kids into the program. But maybe, allow at risk kids whose scores are slightly below the cutoff to join the advanced track. Provide high-quality early education programs. Make sure that special needs are addressed for all kids. These kinds of changes are much more expensive and complex than "end AAP because of segregation" but they're a better path to equity in the long run.

Not just better- the only path that makes sense.

It’s also important to note- people will move without AAP. Young families can’t afford this area to begin with. Without AAP to attract the young wealthy families- people will just move to Loudoun, WV or RVA.

No parent obsessed with school performance is moving to WV. That is not happening.

We need to shift what we think of as an equitable outcome, it isn’t that every kid is able to take AP classes and get a 5. That is never going to happen because there are different abilities and that is fine.

What we are talking about is kids ability to access an education that will allow them to succeed, graduate with solid skills, and go to college or get a job. The truth is that the education gap exists because some parents read to their kids, do math with their kids, and have higher educational expectations for their kids. Some families don’t do these things or have these goals.

There are families of generational poor people. No one in the family has graduated from high school. It isn’t important to the family. The parents don’t worry about their kids attending. They are not reading to their kids. They are not supplementing math. Why would they? Their parents didn’t do those things for them. Their grandparents didn’t do it for their parents. And back it goes.

Most of the families that immigrate to the US for low wage jobs are coming from places where school is not a priority. Their communities don’t have strong schools. Attendance is not important. School really is not a thing there. Their kids come with the parents to the US with limited to no education. The parents have limited to no education. And we expect those kids and parents to embrace regular attendance, homework, and graduation?

Some families are coming to the US from cultures that strongly value education that is not as available to their kids. Maybe it is where they live in the country or the where they fit in society but they cannot access the schools that they want. They come to the US to give their kids those opportunities and improve their lives. Those are the parents who are busting their butts to get their kids into school and programs like AAP. They value education in a way that most native born Americans don’t.

Everything we are talking about here does nothing to help the first two groups of poor kids. And the reality is that what we do is not likely to have a huge effect on those kids because their parents don’t care. Short of making school year round and 10 hours a day so that those kids are at school, surrounded by Teachers and Admin that value education most of their day, we are not going to reach them. The inclusive classrooms and attempts like it are about optics. We don’t want to admit that there are groups of kids that we cannot reach.

Your post is dividing the entire student body (and their families) into two groups: smart kids who care and dumb kids who don’t. Which is essentially what AAP does. And the problem, AGAIN, is that AAP and your simple-minded worldview miss ALL THE OTHER KIDS. The ones who just need a grade appropriate education in a safe and non-chaotic environment. And THEY ARE NOT GETTING IT in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

AAP is the only place for kids who just need a grade appropriate education in a safe and non-chaotic environment? You are the one who is off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's another angle to this that gets missed a lot. One of the big complaints to any form of specialized opportunities for "advanced" kids (honors/advanced classes, AAP, G&T, anything) is that you end up a cohort of kids in the advanced track who are richer and whiter and so it's seen as a form of segregation. I think this is a reasonable concern. Segregation in housing and in educational opportunities is a huge problem in the US, and has been an ongoing problem since before Civil Rights. This is something we need to try to address.

But simplistic ideas like getting rid of AAP are missing the bigger picture. Yes, you can segregate kids within a school, and that's not good. But what's worse than that is to segregate kids into different schools. And what's worse than that is to segregate kids into completely different communities.

If a diverse school in a diverse community offers an advanced option that is somewhat segregated, and then they simply remove that advanced option to avoid segregation in the name of equity, some of the parents whose kids were or would be in the advanced option may choose a different school if they have that option. They may move into a neighborhood where the gen ed educational path has more rigor, if they can afford it. Those schools and neighborhoods are likely to be richer and whiter, exacerbating the problem.

Removing an AAP program that's 75% white from a school that's 75% students of color, but then causing most of those white kids (over time) to decamp to adjacent mostly white school districts, INCREASES segregation. No, you won't have the visual anymore of gen ed classes filled with students of color and the AAP classes filled with white kids. But those kids will be even more segregated, going to completely different schools and living in completely different neighborhoods.

So to me, the better option is to dig deeper into causes of inequality and try to address them. If there's a test for admission, don't allow families with resources to retake or try another option or talk their kids into the program. But maybe, allow at risk kids whose scores are slightly below the cutoff to join the advanced track. Provide high-quality early education programs. Make sure that special needs are addressed for all kids. These kinds of changes are much more expensive and complex than "end AAP because of segregation" but they're a better path to equity in the long run.

Not just better- the only path that makes sense.

It’s also important to note- people will move without AAP. Young families can’t afford this area to begin with. Without AAP to attract the young wealthy families- people will just move to Loudoun, WV or RVA.

No parent obsessed with school performance is moving to WV. That is not happening.

We need to shift what we think of as an equitable outcome, it isn’t that every kid is able to take AP classes and get a 5. That is never going to happen because there are different abilities and that is fine.

What we are talking about is kids ability to access an education that will allow them to succeed, graduate with solid skills, and go to college or get a job. The truth is that the education gap exists because some parents read to their kids, do math with their kids, and have higher educational expectations for their kids. Some families don’t do these things or have these goals.

There are families of generational poor people. No one in the family has graduated from high school. It isn’t important to the family. The parents don’t worry about their kids attending. They are not reading to their kids. They are not supplementing math. Why would they? Their parents didn’t do those things for them. Their grandparents didn’t do it for their parents. And back it goes.

Most of the families that immigrate to the US for low wage jobs are coming from places where school is not a priority. Their communities don’t have strong schools. Attendance is not important. School really is not a thing there. Their kids come with the parents to the US with limited to no education. The parents have limited to no education. And we expect those kids and parents to embrace regular attendance, homework, and graduation?

Some families are coming to the US from cultures that strongly value education that is not as available to their kids. Maybe it is where they live in the country or the where they fit in society but they cannot access the schools that they want. They come to the US to give their kids those opportunities and improve their lives. Those are the parents who are busting their butts to get their kids into school and programs like AAP. They value education in a way that most native born Americans don’t.

Everything we are talking about here does nothing to help the first two groups of poor kids. And the reality is that what we do is not likely to have a huge effect on those kids because their parents don’t care. Short of making school year round and 10 hours a day so that those kids are at school, surrounded by Teachers and Admin that value education most of their day, we are not going to reach them. The inclusive classrooms and attempts like it are about optics. We don’t want to admit that there are groups of kids that we cannot reach.

Your post is dividing the entire student body (and their families) into two groups: smart kids who care and dumb kids who don’t. Which is essentially what AAP does. And the problem, AGAIN, is that AAP and your simple-minded worldview miss ALL THE OTHER KIDS. The ones who just need a grade appropriate education in a safe and non-chaotic environment. And THEY ARE NOT GETTING IT in FCPS.

You have a reading comprehension problem. The previous post never mentioned dumb kids. You made it up in your head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP is the only place for kids who just need a grade appropriate education in a safe and non-chaotic environment? You are the one who is off.

No, I am saying the vast majority of kids who do NOY get accepted into AAP are not getting a grade appropriate education in a safe and non-chaotic environment because so many people seem to think all of the “worthy” children are in AAP (they are not) and that those who are not in AAP are either stupid or come from families who don’t value education anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's another angle to this that gets missed a lot. One of the big complaints to any form of specialized opportunities for "advanced" kids (honors/advanced classes, AAP, G&T, anything) is that you end up a cohort of kids in the advanced track who are richer and whiter and so it's seen as a form of segregation. I think this is a reasonable concern. Segregation in housing and in educational opportunities is a huge problem in the US, and has been an ongoing problem since before Civil Rights. This is something we need to try to address.

But simplistic ideas like getting rid of AAP are missing the bigger picture. Yes, you can segregate kids within a school, and that's not good. But what's worse than that is to segregate kids into different schools. And what's worse than that is to segregate kids into completely different communities.

If a diverse school in a diverse community offers an advanced option that is somewhat segregated, and then they simply remove that advanced option to avoid segregation in the name of equity, some of the parents whose kids were or would be in the advanced option may choose a different school if they have that option. They may move into a neighborhood where the gen ed educational path has more rigor, if they can afford it. Those schools and neighborhoods are likely to be richer and whiter, exacerbating the problem.

Removing an AAP program that's 75% white from a school that's 75% students of color, but then causing most of those white kids (over time) to decamp to adjacent mostly white school districts, INCREASES segregation. No, you won't have the visual anymore of gen ed classes filled with students of color and the AAP classes filled with white kids. But those kids will be even more segregated, going to completely different schools and living in completely different neighborhoods.

So to me, the better option is to dig deeper into causes of inequality and try to address them. If there's a test for admission, don't allow families with resources to retake or try another option or talk their kids into the program. But maybe, allow at risk kids whose scores are slightly below the cutoff to join the advanced track. Provide high-quality early education programs. Make sure that special needs are addressed for all kids. These kinds of changes are much more expensive and complex than "end AAP because of segregation" but they're a better path to equity in the long run.

Not just better- the only path that makes sense.

It’s also important to note- people will move without AAP. Young families can’t afford this area to begin with. Without AAP to attract the young wealthy families- people will just move to Loudoun, WV or RVA.

No parent obsessed with school performance is moving to WV. That is not happening.

We need to shift what we think of as an equitable outcome, it isn’t that every kid is able to take AP classes and get a 5. That is never going to happen because there are different abilities and that is fine.

What we are talking about is kids ability to access an education that will allow them to succeed, graduate with solid skills, and go to college or get a job. The truth is that the education gap exists because some parents read to their kids, do math with their kids, and have higher educational expectations for their kids. Some families don’t do these things or have these goals.

There are families of generational poor people. No one in the family has graduated from high school. It isn’t important to the family. The parents don’t worry about their kids attending. They are not reading to their kids. They are not supplementing math. Why would they? Their parents didn’t do those things for them. Their grandparents didn’t do it for their parents. And back it goes.

Most of the families that immigrate to the US for low wage jobs are coming from places where school is not a priority. Their communities don’t have strong schools. Attendance is not important. School really is not a thing there. Their kids come with the parents to the US with limited to no education. The parents have limited to no education. And we expect those kids and parents to embrace regular attendance, homework, and graduation?

Some families are coming to the US from cultures that strongly value education that is not as available to their kids. Maybe it is where they live in the country or the where they fit in society but they cannot access the schools that they want. They come to the US to give their kids those opportunities and improve their lives. Those are the parents who are busting their butts to get their kids into school and programs like AAP. They value education in a way that most native born Americans don’t.

Everything we are talking about here does nothing to help the first two groups of poor kids. And the reality is that what we do is not likely to have a huge effect on those kids because their parents don’t care. Short of making school year round and 10 hours a day so that those kids are at school, surrounded by Teachers and Admin that value education most of their day, we are not going to reach them. The inclusive classrooms and attempts like it are about optics. We don’t want to admit that there are groups of kids that we cannot reach.

Your post is dividing the entire student body (and their families) into two groups: smart kids who care and dumb kids who don’t. Which is essentially what AAP does. And the problem, AGAIN, is that AAP and your simple-minded worldview miss ALL THE OTHER KIDS. The ones who just need a grade appropriate education in a safe and non-chaotic environment. And THEY ARE NOT GETTING IT in FCPS.

You have a reading comprehension problem. The previous post never mentioned dumb kids. You made it up in your head.

Oh my gosh my mistake! The poster never used the word “dumb”, all she said was that those kids come from families who don’t give a damn about their education!! (One could make the argument that “dumb” is implied due to the lack of concern, but whatever…)

Well, clearly her point is valid! If your child isn’t in AAP it’s because you don’t read to them so we shouldn’t even concern ourselves with what they’re being taught at school. Silly me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's another angle to this that gets missed a lot. One of the big complaints to any form of specialized opportunities for "advanced" kids (honors/advanced classes, AAP, G&T, anything) is that you end up a cohort of kids in the advanced track who are richer and whiter and so it's seen as a form of segregation. I think this is a reasonable concern. Segregation in housing and in educational opportunities is a huge problem in the US, and has been an ongoing problem since before Civil Rights. This is something we need to try to address.

But simplistic ideas like getting rid of AAP are missing the bigger picture. Yes, you can segregate kids within a school, and that's not good. But what's worse than that is to segregate kids into different schools. And what's worse than that is to segregate kids into completely different communities.

If a diverse school in a diverse community offers an advanced option that is somewhat segregated, and then they simply remove that advanced option to avoid segregation in the name of equity, some of the parents whose kids were or would be in the advanced option may choose a different school if they have that option. They may move into a neighborhood where the gen ed educational path has more rigor, if they can afford it. Those schools and neighborhoods are likely to be richer and whiter, exacerbating the problem.

Removing an AAP program that's 75% white from a school that's 75% students of color, but then causing most of those white kids (over time) to decamp to adjacent mostly white school districts, INCREASES segregation. No, you won't have the visual anymore of gen ed classes filled with students of color and the AAP classes filled with white kids. But those kids will be even more segregated, going to completely different schools and living in completely different neighborhoods.

So to me, the better option is to dig deeper into causes of inequality and try to address them. If there's a test for admission, don't allow families with resources to retake or try another option or talk their kids into the program. But maybe, allow at risk kids whose scores are slightly below the cutoff to join the advanced track. Provide high-quality early education programs. Make sure that special needs are addressed for all kids. These kinds of changes are much more expensive and complex than "end AAP because of segregation" but they're a better path to equity in the long run.

Not just better- the only path that makes sense.

It’s also important to note- people will move without AAP. Young families can’t afford this area to begin with. Without AAP to attract the young wealthy families- people will just move to Loudoun, WV or RVA.

No parent obsessed with school performance is moving to WV. That is not happening.

We need to shift what we think of as an equitable outcome, it isn’t that every kid is able to take AP classes and get a 5. That is never going to happen because there are different abilities and that is fine.

What we are talking about is kids ability to access an education that will allow them to succeed, graduate with solid skills, and go to college or get a job. The truth is that the education gap exists because some parents read to their kids, do math with their kids, and have higher educational expectations for their kids. Some families don’t do these things or have these goals.

There are families of generational poor people. No one in the family has graduated from high school. It isn’t important to the family. The parents don’t worry about their kids attending. They are not reading to their kids. They are not supplementing math. Why would they? Their parents didn’t do those things for them. Their grandparents didn’t do it for their parents. And back it goes.

Most of the families that immigrate to the US for low wage jobs are coming from places where school is not a priority. Their communities don’t have strong schools. Attendance is not important. School really is not a thing there. Their kids come with the parents to the US with limited to no education. The parents have limited to no education. And we expect those kids and parents to embrace regular attendance, homework, and graduation?

Some families are coming to the US from cultures that strongly value education that is not as available to their kids. Maybe it is where they live in the country or the where they fit in society but they cannot access the schools that they want. They come to the US to give their kids those opportunities and improve their lives. Those are the parents who are busting their butts to get their kids into school and programs like AAP. They value education in a way that most native born Americans don’t.

Everything we are talking about here does nothing to help the first two groups of poor kids. And the reality is that what we do is not likely to have a huge effect on those kids because their parents don’t care. Short of making school year round and 10 hours a day so that those kids are at school, surrounded by Teachers and Admin that value education most of their day, we are not going to reach them. The inclusive classrooms and attempts like it are about optics. We don’t want to admit that there are groups of kids that we cannot reach.

A child's education is first supported by their family, and then by the school. A parent is child's first teacher. Parent can break or make a child by being a bad role model, ignorant role model, or a good role model. An uninformed and ignorant parent expects the school to pick up their parenting responsibility, when at school their child at best can practically get just 1/20th of the class teacher's attention, and could get 100% of parent's productive attention outside school.

On this forum, a responsible parent is foolishly referenced as a wealthy parent, and a hardworking student is depicted as a prepped student. An ignorant parent eats up this narrative fast because it doesn't highlight their remiss in their parental duty, and conveniently blames the lack of progress in their child's education as a problem caused by school and other parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's another angle to this that gets missed a lot. One of the big complaints to any form of specialized opportunities for "advanced" kids (honors/advanced classes, AAP, G&T, anything) is that you end up a cohort of kids in the advanced track who are richer and whiter and so it's seen as a form of segregation. I think this is a reasonable concern. Segregation in housing and in educational opportunities is a huge problem in the US, and has been an ongoing problem since before Civil Rights. This is something we need to try to address.

But simplistic ideas like getting rid of AAP are missing the bigger picture. Yes, you can segregate kids within a school, and that's not good. But what's worse than that is to segregate kids into different schools. And what's worse than that is to segregate kids into completely different communities.

If a diverse school in a diverse community offers an advanced option that is somewhat segregated, and then they simply remove that advanced option to avoid segregation in the name of equity, some of the parents whose kids were or would be in the advanced option may choose a different school if they have that option. They may move into a neighborhood where the gen ed educational path has more rigor, if they can afford it. Those schools and neighborhoods are likely to be richer and whiter, exacerbating the problem.

Removing an AAP program that's 75% white from a school that's 75% students of color, but then causing most of those white kids (over time) to decamp to adjacent mostly white school districts, INCREASES segregation. No, you won't have the visual anymore of gen ed classes filled with students of color and the AAP classes filled with white kids. But those kids will be even more segregated, going to completely different schools and living in completely different neighborhoods.

So to me, the better option is to dig deeper into causes of inequality and try to address them. If there's a test for admission, don't allow families with resources to retake or try another option or talk their kids into the program. But maybe, allow at risk kids whose scores are slightly below the cutoff to join the advanced track. Provide high-quality early education programs. Make sure that special needs are addressed for all kids. These kinds of changes are much more expensive and complex than "end AAP because of segregation" but they're a better path to equity in the long run.

Not just better- the only path that makes sense.

It’s also important to note- people will move without AAP. Young families can’t afford this area to begin with. Without AAP to attract the young wealthy families- people will just move to Loudoun, WV or RVA.

No parent obsessed with school performance is moving to WV. That is not happening.

We need to shift what we think of as an equitable outcome, it isn’t that every kid is able to take AP classes and get a 5. That is never going to happen because there are different abilities and that is fine.

What we are talking about is kids ability to access an education that will allow them to succeed, graduate with solid skills, and go to college or get a job. The truth is that the education gap exists because some parents read to their kids, do math with their kids, and have higher educational expectations for their kids. Some families don’t do these things or have these goals.

There are families of generational poor people. No one in the family has graduated from high school. It isn’t important to the family. The parents don’t worry about their kids attending. They are not reading to their kids. They are not supplementing math. Why would they? Their parents didn’t do those things for them. Their grandparents didn’t do it for their parents. And back it goes.

Most of the families that immigrate to the US for low wage jobs are coming from places where school is not a priority. Their communities don’t have strong schools. Attendance is not important. School really is not a thing there. Their kids come with the parents to the US with limited to no education. The parents have limited to no education. And we expect those kids and parents to embrace regular attendance, homework, and graduation?

Some families are coming to the US from cultures that strongly value education that is not as available to their kids. Maybe it is where they live in the country or the where they fit in society but they cannot access the schools that they want. They come to the US to give their kids those opportunities and improve their lives. Those are the parents who are busting their butts to get their kids into school and programs like AAP. They value education in a way that most native born Americans don’t.

Everything we are talking about here does nothing to help the first two groups of poor kids. And the reality is that what we do is not likely to have a huge effect on those kids because their parents don’t care. Short of making school year round and 10 hours a day so that those kids are at school, surrounded by Teachers and Admin that value education most of their day, we are not going to reach them. The inclusive classrooms and attempts like it are about optics. We don’t want to admit that there are groups of kids that we cannot reach.

Your post is dividing the entire student body (and their families) into two groups: smart kids who care and dumb kids who don’t. Which is essentially what AAP does. And the problem, AGAIN, is that AAP and your simple-minded worldview miss ALL THE OTHER KIDS. The ones who just need a grade appropriate education in a safe and non-chaotic environment. And THEY ARE NOT GETTING IT in FCPS.

You have a reading comprehension problem. The previous post never mentioned dumb kids. You made it up in your head.

Oh my gosh my mistake! The poster never used the word “dumb”, all she said was that those kids come from families who don’t give a damn about their education!! (One could make the argument that “dumb” is implied due to the lack of concern, but whatever…)

Well, clearly her point is valid! If your child isn’t in AAP it’s because you don’t read to them so we shouldn’t even concern ourselves with what they’re being taught at school. Silly me.

So your issue is that the general ed track needs improvement. That’s a different issue than the existence of AAP.

[Anonymous]

If there was ever a reason to make the school board Republican, this is it.

AAP is not the answer for equity. AAP keeps UMC families moving into this area. You get rid of that- we become no better than Moco and people will just move the Loudoun.

If you want your property values to tank- this is the way to do it. Any talk about using AAP for equity will get every middle aged umc parent to vote red.

And I am totally blue through and through. But this is the kind of red herring bs that will get another Youngkin in office.