Rigor at TJ compared to regular FCPS high Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bottom 10% at TJ will be top 10% at Langley and McLean etc.

But the top 10% at Langley and McLean will attend top 20 colleges, while the bottom 10% at TJ will attend NOVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom 10% at TJ will be top 10% at Langley and McLean etc.

But the top 10% at Langley and McLean will attend top 20 colleges, while the bottom 10% at TJ will attend NOVA.

Now that's just absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom 10% at TJ will be top 10% at Langley and McLean etc.

But the top 10% at Langley and McLean will attend top 20 colleges, while the bottom 10% at TJ will attend NOVA.

Now that's just absurd.

The bottom 10% at TJ will attend GMU, JMU, and VCU.

The top 10% at Langley and McLean? Half of them will go to UVA and Tech, and half of them will go top 20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom 10% at TJ will be top 10% at Langley and McLean etc.

But the top 10% at Langley and McLean will attend top 20 colleges, while the bottom 10% at TJ will attend NOVA.

Now that's just absurd.

The bottom 10% at TJ will attend GMU, JMU, and VCU.

The top 10% at Langley and McLean? Half of them will go to UVA and Tech, and half of them will go top 20.

That is probably true, but the reason is that the bottom 10% of TJ are low-income and have to resort to living at home at GMU, not because they can't cut VT academically. Even the bottom 10% at Langley go off to dorms at Radford on parent's money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom 10% at TJ will be top 10% at Langley and McLean etc.

But the top 10% at Langley and McLean will attend top 20 colleges, while the bottom 10% at TJ will attend NOVA.

Now that's just absurd.

The bottom 10% at TJ will attend GMU, JMU, and VCU.

The top 10% at Langley and McLean? Half of them will go to UVA and Tech, and half of them will go top 20.

That is probably true, but the reason is that the bottom 10% of TJ are low-income and have to resort to living at home at GMU, not because they can't cut VT academically. Even the bottom 10% at Langley go off to dorms at Radford on parent's money.

You have a vivid imagination.

[Anonymous]

In a few more years it will be more like top 10% at Langley/McLean/Chantilly/Oakton = top 10% at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom 10% at TJ will be top 10% at Langley and McLean etc.

But the top 10% at Langley and McLean will attend top 20 colleges, while the bottom 10% at TJ will attend NOVA.

The top 10% at Langley and McLean are not all getting into T20 colleges. Please get real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a few more years it will be more like top 10% at Langley/McLean/Chantilly/Oakton = top 10% at TJ.

I would expect the opposite to happen. The top 10% at TJ will be more like the top 0.5% at those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/academics/graduation-requirements-and-course-planning/college-credit-high-school/international

Why is it that fcps offers IB program in Mount Vernon/Lewis/Justice/..., but not in McClean/Langley/Oakton/...?

You chose not to include Marshall and Robinson. Those are not low SES schools.

They're all the same. It's a standard program. I know that's not what your real estate agent told you but it's true.

Our prior real estate agent kept encouraging us to move out of our Title 1 pyramid because she said the schools were bad. She wanted us to move to the Langley pyramid. We got a new real estate agent. Not that we have anything against Langley but we disagreed strongly that our schools were bad and were very happy with how are kids were doing and we love our neighborhood. Our kids are in college and high school now and we have no regrets.

I call shenanigans. The people who can afford Langley but instead choose Title 1 number around zero.

Wrong. We can afford Langley but bought a 7 figure home in our title 1 pyramid because of the amazing community we live in. We love living inside the beltway, have an easy commute everywhere, and live with a diverse and interesting populace that has broadened my world view. I’m super active in the school, see daily how amazing the teachers and administrators are, and know that we made the right decision for our family. The fear of poor people on DCUM is so irrational. Most of the poor families we’ve met are immigrants who are trying so hard to live the American dream. They want the best for their children just like rich people do. Y’all are afraid of a ghost. I’ll stay here.

Where are Title 1 pyramids inside the beltway?

The Justice and Falls Church pyramids are Title 1 and inside the Beltway, if I'm not mistaken. Parts of Edison and Lewis are inside the beltway too.

Annandale as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom 10% at TJ will be top 10% at Langley and McLean etc.

No, bottom 5% at TJ will be in the top 5% at Langley and McLean since so many posters claim that the new TJ admission system vastly improved the quality of the already No. 1 ranked high school in the country TJ even further.

+1

[Anonymous]

TJ is insane. Honors classes are taught like AP classes. AP classes are like college and post AP like grad school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom 10% at TJ will be top 10% at Langley and McLean etc.

Bottom 10% at TJ get a B or C in Calc AB, and that's about it with math. Top 10% at Langley and McLean get an A in Calc BC, and follow it up with Multi Variable, and Linear Alegbra

More so now with the essay based admission. Bottom 10% leave after freshman, the next bottom 10% write five line essays and that's about it

Just the opposite. The bottom 10% was worse when people were only getting in because they bought the test answers. At least now it's based on merit.

bought test answers from where? I read conspiracy theories being floated here. But in a real world, buyers can only exist when there is both a seller and a product present in the transaction. Who is the seller? Do they have a site where they sell this product?

It was the place that shall not be named. Continue to disbelieve what happened. That way you can continue to misunderstand one of the reasons for the admissions change (there were others too).

Let me get this. There was a place that cant be named, that sold a product that cant be mentioned, at a location that cannot be disclosed, that caused the admission change?

*chuckles* The place is called Curie Learning Centers.

The product is/was their flagship TJ prep course that featured, among many other things, a question bank for the secured Quant-Q exam that was inappropriately derived from their previous students reporting back on the questions they'd seen when they took the exam. While Curie didn't do anything illegal, what they did was unethical, as they used materials given to them by students who had signed an agreement not to disclose any materials from the Quant-Q. It's been confirmed many times by TJ students who attended Curie and the veracity of the story is no longer up for debate among serious people. The flagship course ran about $5,000 per student (not the $20K that has been mentioned here before) and ran for a 16-month period beginning for most students at the star of their 7th grade year and running up through the administration of the Student Information Sheet in January of 8th grade.

Curie has multiple locations in Loudoun and western Fairfax Counties.

To say that the Curie matter "caused" the admissions changes is perhaps not quite appropriate, but it absolutely highlighted the need for reform because of the program's success in securing admission to TJ and the growth of its claims year over year.

And before anyone comes at me with the snarky "look, another advertisement for Curie" nonsense, understand this:

I don't care at all how much money Dr. R is able to bilk off of insecure families - I only care that the families are not rewarded in admissions processes for having the money to burn.

Why the fixation on Curie? have you been through their wringer?

I fixate on Curie because TJ kids who went to Curie confirmed that they behaved unethically AND because they published the first and last names of the kids who got in using their services - and in so doing proved that they serve the South Asian community exclusively.

How did the kids who went to Curie Learning behave unethically when Curie has a math question bank of 100,000 questions from which they create study material and random weekly, monthly unit tests? My son went there and we were very happy with their services. Make sure you ask for festival discounts. Friday samosas are great too. It's not exclusive for South Asian community, anyone who can handle their samosa spice level is happy there. I was told they do party catering as well, but never tried though.

I too would like to understand what happened. Can someone provide a link to the news article or board docs that talks about the one apparent russian kid who caused fcps to overhaul TJ admissions?

There is no news article, and there are no board docs. The only things that are known are that Curie published a list of kids who were supposedly offered admissions. The list was not vetted and included some double listed kids, as well as kids who were offered TJ spots and turned them down. Some kids posted on TJ vents that they had seen similar questions to the Quant Q in their Curie classes. High Quant Q scores, along with high ACT Aspire scores and good grades let kids become TJ semifinalists. Only half of those kids would go on to be offered TJ admissions, and they would need the essays, recommendations, and such to support admissions. Many of these kids were filling the 100-ish seats going to LCPS kids, and the same kids are still, in the new admissions environment, filling the LCPS spots.

People on dcum are spinning this into some huge cheating scandal where kids "bought the test" and where a bunch of unqualified kids got admissions. This is not the case, and they're determined to keep lying. It is true that kids were not supposed to have any advanced prep for the Quant Q, and Curie kids had an unfair advantage. They didn't buy the test or answers, but instead had some practice in how to approach problems that were supposed to be solved without prior warning. It's also true that the Quant Q needed to be eliminated due to the breaking of the test through prep. For the most part, the use of the Quant Q and the Curie prep programs just led to the wrong kids filling out the bottom 20% of TJ.

There was no reason at all to remove the ACT Aspire or some other standardized test as a baseline competence check. There was no reason to remove teacher recommendations, weight given to major achievements, consideration of courses taken, and essays that actually have substance.

The teacher recs were problematic. Teachers at the feeder MS knew how to write strong recs, were willing to and experienced with the process. By contrast, when a student at a historically unrepresented MS was interested in applying, teachers were unfamiliar with the process or with appropriate letters.

You are absolutely right. At Whitman middle school, the teachers were also unfamiliar with the student's stem capabilities. There could have been an Einstein, a Newton, an Ohm, in them. Teachers always had one challenge, student attendance! Without student attendance, how can a teacher describe a little Einstein, a Newton, or an Ohm?

Bull. Honors/AAP teachers at Whitman or any other lower SES school still could tell you which kids are the academic superstars in their schools. With a 1.5% allocation per school, there is no problem with using teacher recommendations as part of the process to pick the 6-10 kids per school to be offered admissions.

According to Virginia School Quality Profiles, Whitman has

Chronic Absenteeism - Level Two

And you think that the kids taking Honors classes in 7th and 8th grade, including Algebra 1, and earning at least a 3.5 GPA are missing school on a regular basis?

Look, the low SES MS and HS and ES have a huge issue with kids attending. The kids who meet the basic profile for applying for TJ are not the kids who are missing school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ is insane. Honors classes are taught like AP classes. AP classes are like college and post AP like grad school.

Ain't that the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom 10% at TJ will be top 10% at Langley and McLean etc.

Bottom 10% at TJ get a B or C in Calc AB, and that's about it with math. Top 10% at Langley and McLean get an A in Calc BC, and follow it up with Multi Variable, and Linear Alegbra

More so now with the essay based admission. Bottom 10% leave after freshman, the next bottom 10% write five line essays and that's about it

Just the opposite. The bottom 10% was worse when people were only getting in because they bought the test answers. At least now it's based on merit.

bought test answers from where? I read conspiracy theories being floated here. But in a real world, buyers can only exist when there is both a seller and a product present in the transaction. Who is the seller? Do they have a site where they sell this product?

It was the place that shall not be named. Continue to disbelieve what happened. That way you can continue to misunderstand one of the reasons for the admissions change (there were others too).

Let me get this. There was a place that cant be named, that sold a product that cant be mentioned, at a location that cannot be disclosed, that caused the admission change?

*chuckles* The place is called Curie Learning Centers.

The product is/was their flagship TJ prep course that featured, among many other things, a question bank for the secured Quant-Q exam that was inappropriately derived from their previous students reporting back on the questions they'd seen when they took the exam. While Curie didn't do anything illegal, what they did was unethical, as they used materials given to them by students who had signed an agreement not to disclose any materials from the Quant-Q. It's been confirmed many times by TJ students who attended Curie and the veracity of the story is no longer up for debate among serious people. The flagship course ran about $5,000 per student (not the $20K that has been mentioned here before) and ran for a 16-month period beginning for most students at the star of their 7th grade year and running up through the administration of the Student Information Sheet in January of 8th grade.

Curie has multiple locations in Loudoun and western Fairfax Counties.

To say that the Curie matter "caused" the admissions changes is perhaps not quite appropriate, but it absolutely highlighted the need for reform because of the program's success in securing admission to TJ and the growth of its claims year over year.

And before anyone comes at me with the snarky "look, another advertisement for Curie" nonsense, understand this:

I don't care at all how much money Dr. R is able to bilk off of insecure families - I only care that the families are not rewarded in admissions processes for having the money to burn.

Why the fixation on Curie? have you been through their wringer?

I fixate on Curie because TJ kids who went to Curie confirmed that they behaved unethically AND because they published the first and last names of the kids who got in using their services - and in so doing proved that they serve the South Asian community exclusively.

How did the kids who went to Curie Learning behave unethically when Curie has a math question bank of 100,000 questions from which they create study material and random weekly, monthly unit tests? My son went there and we were very happy with their services. Make sure you ask for festival discounts. Friday samosas are great too. It's not exclusive for South Asian community, anyone who can handle their samosa spice level is happy there. I was told they do party catering as well, but never tried though.

I too would like to understand what happened. Can someone provide a link to the news article or board docs that talks about the one apparent russian kid who caused fcps to overhaul TJ admissions?

There is no news article, and there are no board docs. The only things that are known are that Curie published a list of kids who were supposedly offered admissions. The list was not vetted and included some double listed kids, as well as kids who were offered TJ spots and turned them down. Some kids posted on TJ vents that they had seen similar questions to the Quant Q in their Curie classes. High Quant Q scores, along with high ACT Aspire scores and good grades let kids become TJ semifinalists. Only half of those kids would go on to be offered TJ admissions, and they would need the essays, recommendations, and such to support admissions. Many of these kids were filling the 100-ish seats going to LCPS kids, and the same kids are still, in the new admissions environment, filling the LCPS spots.

People on dcum are spinning this into some huge cheating scandal where kids "bought the test" and where a bunch of unqualified kids got admissions. This is not the case, and they're determined to keep lying. It is true that kids were not supposed to have any advanced prep for the Quant Q, and Curie kids had an unfair advantage. They didn't buy the test or answers, but instead had some practice in how to approach problems that were supposed to be solved without prior warning. It's also true that the Quant Q needed to be eliminated due to the breaking of the test through prep. For the most part, the use of the Quant Q and the Curie prep programs just led to the wrong kids filling out the bottom 20% of TJ.

There was no reason at all to remove the ACT Aspire or some other standardized test as a baseline competence check. There was no reason to remove teacher recommendations, weight given to major achievements, consideration of courses taken, and essays that actually have substance.

The teacher recs were problematic. Teachers at the feeder MS knew how to write strong recs, were willing to and experienced with the process. By contrast, when a student at a historically unrepresented MS was interested in applying, teachers were unfamiliar with the process or with appropriate letters.

You are absolutely right. At Whitman middle school, the teachers were also unfamiliar with the student's stem capabilities. There could have been an Einstein, a Newton, an Ohm, in them. Teachers always had one challenge, student attendance! Without student attendance, how can a teacher describe a little Einstein, a Newton, or an Ohm?

Bull. Honors/AAP teachers at Whitman or any other lower SES school still could tell you which kids are the academic superstars in their schools. With a 1.5% allocation per school, there is no problem with using teacher recommendations as part of the process to pick the 6-10 kids per school to be offered admissions.

According to Virginia School Quality Profiles, Whitman has

Chronic Absenteeism - Level Two

And you think that the kids taking Honors classes in 7th and 8th grade, including Algebra 1, and earning at least a 3.5 GPA are missing school on a regular basis?

Look, the low SES MS and HS and ES have a huge issue with kids attending. The kids who meet the basic profile for applying for TJ are not the kids who are missing school.

Sure, and the 99.99% of kids impacted by chronic absenteeism at Whitmann is not the FCPS board's responsibility? Yet, forcefully push one student into TJ, even if they aren't academically prepared, as a diversion away from problems plaguing that school. Significant number of students at Whitman MS can barely read and do math at elementary level. What is the Board doing to prepp these kids for TJ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom 10% at TJ will be top 10% at Langley and McLean etc.

Bottom 10% at TJ get a B or C in Calc AB, and that's about it with math. Top 10% at Langley and McLean get an A in Calc BC, and follow it up with Multi Variable, and Linear Alegbra

More so now with the essay based admission. Bottom 10% leave after freshman, the next bottom 10% write five line essays and that's about it

Just the opposite. The bottom 10% was worse when people were only getting in because they bought the test answers. At least now it's based on merit.

bought test answers from where? I read conspiracy theories being floated here. But in a real world, buyers can only exist when there is both a seller and a product present in the transaction. Who is the seller? Do they have a site where they sell this product?

It was the place that shall not be named. Continue to disbelieve what happened. That way you can continue to misunderstand one of the reasons for the admissions change (there were others too).

Let me get this. There was a place that cant be named, that sold a product that cant be mentioned, at a location that cannot be disclosed, that caused the admission change?

*chuckles* The place is called Curie Learning Centers.

The product is/was their flagship TJ prep course that featured, among many other things, a question bank for the secured Quant-Q exam that was inappropriately derived from their previous students reporting back on the questions they'd seen when they took the exam. While Curie didn't do anything illegal, what they did was unethical, as they used materials given to them by students who had signed an agreement not to disclose any materials from the Quant-Q. It's been confirmed many times by TJ students who attended Curie and the veracity of the story is no longer up for debate among serious people. The flagship course ran about $5,000 per student (not the $20K that has been mentioned here before) and ran for a 16-month period beginning for most students at the star of their 7th grade year and running up through the administration of the Student Information Sheet in January of 8th grade.

Curie has multiple locations in Loudoun and western Fairfax Counties.

To say that the Curie matter "caused" the admissions changes is perhaps not quite appropriate, but it absolutely highlighted the need for reform because of the program's success in securing admission to TJ and the growth of its claims year over year.

And before anyone comes at me with the snarky "look, another advertisement for Curie" nonsense, understand this:

I don't care at all how much money Dr. R is able to bilk off of insecure families - I only care that the families are not rewarded in admissions processes for having the money to burn.

Why the fixation on Curie? have you been through their wringer?

I fixate on Curie because TJ kids who went to Curie confirmed that they behaved unethically AND because they published the first and last names of the kids who got in using their services - and in so doing proved that they serve the South Asian community exclusively.

How did the kids who went to Curie Learning behave unethically when Curie has a math question bank of 100,000 questions from which they create study material and random weekly, monthly unit tests? My son went there and we were very happy with their services. Make sure you ask for festival discounts. Friday samosas are great too. It's not exclusive for South Asian community, anyone who can handle their samosa spice level is happy there. I was told they do party catering as well, but never tried though.

I too would like to understand what happened. Can someone provide a link to the news article or board docs that talks about the one apparent russian kid who caused fcps to overhaul TJ admissions?

There is no news article, and there are no board docs. The only things that are known are that Curie published a list of kids who were supposedly offered admissions. The list was not vetted and included some double listed kids, as well as kids who were offered TJ spots and turned them down. Some kids posted on TJ vents that they had seen similar questions to the Quant Q in their Curie classes. High Quant Q scores, along with high ACT Aspire scores and good grades let kids become TJ semifinalists. Only half of those kids would go on to be offered TJ admissions, and they would need the essays, recommendations, and such to support admissions. Many of these kids were filling the 100-ish seats going to LCPS kids, and the same kids are still, in the new admissions environment, filling the LCPS spots.

People on dcum are spinning this into some huge cheating scandal where kids "bought the test" and where a bunch of unqualified kids got admissions. This is not the case, and they're determined to keep lying. It is true that kids were not supposed to have any advanced prep for the Quant Q, and Curie kids had an unfair advantage. They didn't buy the test or answers, but instead had some practice in how to approach problems that were supposed to be solved without prior warning. It's also true that the Quant Q needed to be eliminated due to the breaking of the test through prep. For the most part, the use of the Quant Q and the Curie prep programs just led to the wrong kids filling out the bottom 20% of TJ.

There was no reason at all to remove the ACT Aspire or some other standardized test as a baseline competence check. There was no reason to remove teacher recommendations, weight given to major achievements, consideration of courses taken, and essays that actually have substance.

DD graduated last year and took the TJ test when it was new and nobody knew what to expect. She said that she saw similar questions in her middle school Mathcounts club and thus was trained to solve them. There is just a limited variety of questions I guess, and if you like math and practice it for years here and there, no math test will be a complete surprise.