Is a public school A = private school A- (or B+)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in nyc where there are plenty of private schools that are pretty well known for grade inflation.

Here's an example of grade distribution:

https://resources.finalsite.net/images/v1662473043/packer/jqwg5zprhm5kuweelfde/2022-23SchoolProfileBrochureforCollegeOffice.pdf

I 100% do not assume public schools grade more leniently than private schools. Usually it's the opposite. Public schools kids can actually get a C or a D

Yes. Former private school teacher, public school student. The one time I tried to give a C student a C at my private school faced extreme pushback from the family and then the school. At public school, lots of kids actually get Cs and Ds.

Not anymore. The pressure on public school teachers to get kids to get at least a C is immense. My DH is constantly having to contact parents and get kids to do retakes is ridiculous. He’s basically begging kids to do work. It’s pathetic.

My brother is a high school teacher at a title 1 school and goes on and on about how hardworking kids are and how much responsibility they have. They all have jobs or real home responsibilities, like they cant' stay late at school b/c they have to pick up their siblings, make the dinner, etc bcs mom works til 11. He had a student who missed a week of school and when my brother asked about it the kid said he can never get to school during Restaurant Week because it's too slammed. This is not a kid working at his mom and dad's place, which is super common too, but a kid who literally is working a full-time job while providing for his family. But sure, they're all lazy at your husband's school I guess.

Sounds like those kids shouldn’t bother with school. Let’s be honest. They aren’t going onto college and if their parents can’t even support them, their future isn’t much better than their parents.

They do pretty well at college, thanks for asking. A college schedule has a lot more flexibly. And his high school does a great job educating kids on what regional schools give huge merit money for ACT above a 28. These are not colleges people here care about, but it's a solid education. And their future will be more secure bcs they're literate. Also, as an aside, I think parents who manage despite enormous odds to leave countries in terrible crisis and get to the united states and launch their kids here are courageous and on their way to extraordinarily successful lives themselves. My brother often meets these families in the first hard years here. The immigrant experience is the American experience. Let's be honest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those kids don’t even attend school on a regular basis. My DH had quite a few students who missed well over 50 days of school. They missed that every year.

… and? They’re still getting Cs and Ds. This idea that public school teachers are not allowed to give Cs and Ds is demonstrably false. They can and they do.

Private school parents are angry because when colleges look at class rank, computed or imputed, those kids are included in the denominator for public school. Those kids aren’t even in private school, so instead some rich college-bound kid has to be in the bottom 10%. But of course avoiding those kids is one of the main reasons people go to private school in the first place. You can’t have it both ways. Somebody has to be at the bottom of the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College admissions office and staff are neither ignorant nor naive, with only rare exceptions.

For reasonably well-known private schools, say top-10 locally, most regional universities in this area and also the better national universities (a) will understand the differences in grading scales and grading practices from local publics && (b) will internally adjust. Internal adjustment is not necessarily a rigid mathematical formula. A smaller university in a different area or different country will look at the “School Profile” available from the school and use that to try to evaluate/compare. No comparison ever could be 100% perfect, but they will be close enough to be “reasonable”.

For overseas colleges and universities, a student’s standardized test scores (E.g., actual earned scores from AP tests, standardized Achievement Tests, SAT/ACT, Cambridge Highers, and such like) usually will weight much more heavily than GPA. Most UK, European, and Canadian university admissions look primarily at those scores - for all US students, public or private - in lieu of direct GPA comparisons. These also usually will look at a student’s GPA, but do so in the context of the child’s school’s “School Profile”.

Those school profiles usually indicate the scale (out of 4.0 or 5.0 or whatever), and usually also give an indication of median/mean GPA. Of course, one would not want to be in the bottom half of any school (even at a magnet like TJ).

Which might be a bigger factor for a college- grades and grade inflation or I dictations of wealth? It’d be interesting to see data for public and private for Early Action/Decision plays into college acceptances. That’s financial detail clearly tips who gets into what school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those kids don’t even attend school on a regular basis. My DH had quite a few students who missed well over 50 days of school. They missed that every year.

… and? They’re still getting Cs and Ds. This idea that public school teachers are not allowed to give Cs and Ds is demonstrably false. They can and they do.

Private school parents are angry because when colleges look at class rank, computed or imputed, those kids are included in the denominator for public school. Those kids aren’t even in private school, so instead some rich college-bound kid has to be in the bottom 10%. But of course avoiding those kids is one of the main reasons people go to private school in the first place. You can’t have it both ways. Somebody has to be at the bottom of the class.

+1. The unsaid part of the "privates are better" posts and comments is the assumption that someone private school kids are organically smarter and better. Their ONLY way to validate this is to score high on the SAT or ACT which of course the vast majority of private school kids don't despite the $500/hour SAT prep. Guess who's pushing for test blind admissions? It's not the poor people or URMs at publics.. :lol: :lol:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those kids don’t even attend school on a regular basis. My DH had quite a few students who missed well over 50 days of school. They missed that every year.

Yes. Public school teacher here. The ones getting Cs and Ds DON'T ATTEND SCHOOL.
And there are a surprisingly large number of them.

Let me be frank. It is not difficult to get Bs at most publics if you simply come to school and make any attempt to do the work.

Are we comparing 50k private schools with schools that have high truancy rates? Because I bet the kids from Thomas Jefferson or Bronx Science would like a word.

You are totally missing the point (or being purposely obtuse). MOST public schools (which is the vast majority of kids applying to college) inflate grades - privates (and public magnets which are basically privates paid for by our taxes) don’t. Magnets make up a very small percentage of public schools…

we don't have magnets in nyc so I'm lost on that point. but I'm trying to make things clear. most colleges are not at all selective, so this is moot. if you're talking selective colleges, then no, the vast majority aren't coming from public. It's usually more public than private, but not by a vast number. rigorous public schools don't inflate grades. I've never heard of retakes, but obviously this is something thats happening in Arlington. [b]Can't imagine the resources that would require and most rigorous public schools don't have those resources.

Parents in this are area are care about the most selective colleges so grade inflation matters here (that’s why they are sending them to rigorous magnets or privates). It’s disingenuous to say the “vast majority of kids” at selective schools aren’t coming from public. In fact, 60 percent or more are coming from public.

The DC area has some of THE most rigorous schools in the country. Virginia and Maryland rank in the top ten states for education and the DC area schools are at the top for those lists (Fairfax and MCPS are top in the nation). They are all are doing equitable grading which results in grade inflation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in nyc where there are plenty of private schools that are pretty well known for grade inflation.

Here's an example of grade distribution:

https://resources.finalsite.net/images/v1662473043/packer/jqwg5zprhm5kuweelfde/2022-23SchoolProfileBrochureforCollegeOffice.pdf

I 100% do not assume public schools grade more leniently than private schools. Usually it's the opposite. Public schools kids can actually get a C or a D

Yes. Former private school teacher, public school student. The one time I tried to give a C student a C at my private school faced extreme pushback from the family and then the school. At public school, lots of kids actually get Cs and Ds.

Not anymore. The pressure on public school teachers to get kids to get at least a C is immense. My DH is constantly having to contact parents and get kids to do retakes is ridiculous. He’s basically begging kids to do work. It’s pathetic.

My brother is a high school teacher at a title 1 school and goes on and on about how hardworking kids are and how much responsibility they have. They all have jobs or real home responsibilities, like they cant' stay late at school b/c they have to pick up their siblings, make the dinner, etc bcs mom works til 11. He had a student who missed a week of school and when my brother asked about it the kid said he can never get to school during Restaurant Week because it's too slammed. This is not a kid working at his mom and dad's place, which is super common too, but a kid who literally is working a full-time job while providing for his family. But sure, they're all lazy at your husband's school I guess.

Sounds like those kids shouldn’t bother with school. Let’s be honest. They aren’t going onto college and if their parents can’t even support them, their future isn’t much better than their parents.

They do pretty well at college, thanks for asking. A college schedule has a lot more flexibly. And his high school does a great job educating kids on what regional schools give huge merit money for ACT above a 28. These are not colleges people here care about, but it's a solid education. And their future will be more secure bcs they're literate. Also, as an aside, I think parents who manage despite enormous odds to leave countries in terrible crisis and get to the united states and launch their kids here are courageous and on their way to extraordinarily successful lives themselves. My brother often meets these families in the first hard years here. The immigrant experience is the American experience. Let's be honest.

They don’t go to college if they have to work to support their family while they are still in HS. Be realistic. All of this college ready crap is ridiculous. A kid who needs to work to help pay the family bills isn’t going to college.

[Anonymous]

Depends on the school. Plenty of grade inflation across the board. I would say the education at the top private schools, especially in the humanities, is so strong and the grades given are meaningful. Lesser (but still good) private schools get plenty of moms calling and complaining. They change grades. They will do this at some public schools too. Depends on teacher. Some fold, some hold firm. Some are pressured to be equitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:we don't have magnets in nyc so I'm lost on that point.

Several test-required magnet high schools, some STEM focused and one Arts focused, are part of the NYC public school system.
“www.MagnetSchools.nyc” lists some.

[Anonymous]

People are throwing around a lot of “most public/private schools” comments with seemingly no facts to back up their opinions.

It seems obvious to me that different schools, public and private, operate differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in nyc where there are plenty of private schools that are pretty well known for grade inflation.

Here's an example of grade distribution:

https://resources.finalsite.net/images/v1662473043/packer/jqwg5zprhm5kuweelfde/2022-23SchoolProfileBrochureforCollegeOffice.pdf

I 100% do not assume public schools grade more leniently than private schools. Usually it's the opposite. Public schools kids can actually get a C or a D

Yes. Former private school teacher, public school student. The one time I tried to give a C student a C at my private school faced extreme pushback from the family and then the school. At public school, lots of kids actually get Cs and Ds.

Not anymore. The pressure on public school teachers to get kids to get at least a C is immense. My DH is constantly having to contact parents and get kids to do retakes is ridiculous. He’s basically begging kids to do work. It’s pathetic.

My brother is a high school teacher at a title 1 school and goes on and on about how hardworking kids are and how much responsibility they have. They all have jobs or real home responsibilities, like they cant' stay late at school b/c they have to pick up their siblings, make the dinner, etc bcs mom works til 11. He had a student who missed a week of school and when my brother asked about it the kid said he can never get to school during Restaurant Week because it's too slammed. This is not a kid working at his mom and dad's place, which is super common too, but a kid who literally is working a full-time job while providing for his family. But sure, they're all lazy at your husband's school I guess.

Sounds like those kids shouldn’t bother with school. Let’s be honest. They aren’t going onto college and if their parents can’t even support them, their future isn’t much better than their parents.

They do pretty well at college, thanks for asking. A college schedule has a lot more flexibly. And his high school does a great job educating kids on what regional schools give huge merit money for ACT above a 28. These are not colleges people here care about, but it's a solid education. And their future will be more secure bcs they're literate. Also, as an aside, I think parents who manage despite enormous odds to leave countries in terrible crisis and get to the united states and launch their kids here are courageous and on their way to extraordinarily successful lives themselves. My brother often meets these families in the first hard years here. The immigrant experience is the American experience. Let's be honest.

They don’t go to college if they have to work to support their family while they are still in HS. Be realistic. All of this college ready crap is ridiculous. A kid who needs to work to help pay the family bills isn’t going to college.

Do you have any idea how many college kids also work? Most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we don't have magnets in nyc so I'm lost on that point.

Several test-required magnet high schools, some STEM focused and one Arts focused, are part of the NYC public school system.
“www.MagnetSchools.nyc” lists some.

This is not a DOE site. this is a small list of schools that get some funding. Go ahead and take a look at the list: no stuy, no lag, no bx sci, no tech, no hunter, no hsmse, no elro.

I'm familiar with the high school application process here, having had two kids go through it. We have specialized SHSAT schools, audition schools, audition schools that are specialized schools, ed opt schools, but the vast majority of our 400 high schools are based on a match system that's been reworked now using tiers and lottery. It's a process, for sure. My kids are at specialized high schools - they are not magnet schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those kids don’t even attend school on a regular basis. My DH had quite a few students who missed well over 50 days of school. They missed that every year.

Yes. Public school teacher here. The ones getting Cs and Ds DON'T ATTEND SCHOOL.
And there are a surprisingly large number of them.

Let me be frank. It is not difficult to get Bs at most publics if you simply come to school and make any attempt to do the work.

Are we comparing 50k private schools with schools that have high truancy rates? Because I bet the kids from Thomas Jefferson or Bronx Science would like a word.

You are totally missing the point (or being purposely obtuse). MOST public schools (which is the vast majority of kids applying to college) inflate grades - privates (and public magnets which are basically privates paid for by our taxes) don’t. Magnets make up a very small percentage of public schools…

we don't have magnets in nyc so I'm lost on that point. but I'm trying to make things clear. most colleges are not at all selective, so this is moot. if you're talking selective colleges, then no, the vast majority aren't coming from public. It's usually more public than private, but not by a vast number. rigorous public schools don't inflate grades. I've never heard of retakes, but obviously this is something thats happening in Arlington. [b]Can't imagine the resources that would require and most rigorous public schools don't have those resources.

Parents in this are area are care about the most selective colleges so grade inflation matters here (that’s why they are sending them to rigorous magnets or privates). It’s disingenuous to say the “vast majority of kids” at selective schools aren’t coming from public. In fact, 60 percent or more are coming from public.

The DC area has some of THE most rigorous schools in the country. Virginia and Maryland rank in the top ten states for education and the DC area schools are at the top for those lists (Fairfax and MCPS are top in the nation). They are all are doing equitable grading which results in grade inflation.

I think we have some of the most rigorous publics. We have strong private schools, but not top in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those kids don’t even attend school on a regular basis. My DH had quite a few students who missed well over 50 days of school. They missed that every year.

Yes. Public school teacher here. The ones getting Cs and Ds DON'T ATTEND SCHOOL.
And there are a surprisingly large number of them.

Let me be frank. It is not difficult to get Bs at most publics if you simply come to school and make any attempt to do the work.

Are we comparing 50k private schools with schools that have high truancy rates? Because I bet the kids from Thomas Jefferson or Bronx Science would like a word.

You are totally missing the point (or being purposely obtuse). MOST public schools (which is the vast majority of kids applying to college) inflate grades - privates (and public magnets which are basically privates paid for by our taxes) don’t. Magnets make up a very small percentage of public schools…

we don't have magnets in nyc so I'm lost on that point. but I'm trying to make things clear. most colleges are not at all selective, so this is moot. if you're talking selective colleges, then no, the vast majority aren't coming from public. It's usually more public than private, but not by a vast number. rigorous public schools don't inflate grades. I've never heard of retakes, but obviously this is something thats happening in Arlington. [b]Can't imagine the resources that would require and most rigorous public schools don't have those resources.

Parents in this are area are care about the most selective colleges so grade inflation matters here (that’s why they are sending them to rigorous magnets or privates). It’s disingenuous to say the “vast majority of kids” at selective schools aren’t coming from public. In fact, 60 percent or more are coming from public.

The DC area has some of THE most rigorous schools in the country. Virginia and Maryland rank in the top ten states for education and the DC area schools are at the top for those lists (Fairfax and MCPS are top in the nation). They are all are doing equitable grading which results in grade inflation.

I think we have some of the most rigorous publics. We have strong private schools, but not top in the country.

What are you prattling on about?
The DMV has one public high school routinely ranked in the top 100 in the US: TJ.

There are at least 5 states that are always ranked as having better schools state-wide than the DMV states do:

MA, NJ, CT, VT, NH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those kids don’t even attend school on a regular basis. My DH had quite a few students who missed well over 50 days of school. They missed that every year.

Yes. Public school teacher here. The ones getting Cs and Ds DON'T ATTEND SCHOOL.
And there are a surprisingly large number of them.

Let me be frank. It is not difficult to get Bs at most publics if you simply come to school and make any attempt to do the work.

Are we comparing 50k private schools with schools that have high truancy rates? Because I bet the kids from Thomas Jefferson or Bronx Science would like a word.

You are totally missing the point (or being purposely obtuse). MOST public schools (which is the vast majority of kids applying to college) inflate grades - privates (and public magnets which are basically privates paid for by our taxes) don’t. Magnets make up a very small percentage of public schools…

we don't have magnets in nyc so I'm lost on that point. but I'm trying to make things clear. most colleges are not at all selective, so this is moot. if you're talking selective colleges, then no, the vast majority aren't coming from public. It's usually more public than private, but not by a vast number. rigorous public schools don't inflate grades. I've never heard of retakes, but obviously this is something thats happening in Arlington. [b]Can't imagine the resources that would require and most rigorous public schools don't have those resources.

Parents in this are area are care about the most selective colleges so grade inflation matters here (that’s why they are sending them to rigorous magnets or privates). It’s disingenuous to say the “vast majority of kids” at selective schools aren’t coming from public. In fact, 60 percent or more are coming from public.

The DC area has some of THE most rigorous schools in the country. Virginia and Maryland rank in the top ten states for education and the DC area schools are at the top for those lists (Fairfax and MCPS are top in the nation). They are all are doing equitable grading which results in grade inflation.

I think we have some of the most rigorous publics. We have strong private schools, but not top in the country.

Disagree on the publics, just more DC bluster. TJ students have a national rep for arrogance not achievement, when they go on to top schools but are quickly overshadowed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those kids don’t even attend school on a regular basis. My DH had quite a few students who missed well over 50 days of school. They missed that every year.

Yes. Public school teacher here. The ones getting Cs and Ds DON'T ATTEND SCHOOL.
And there are a surprisingly large number of them.

Let me be frank. It is not difficult to get Bs at most publics if you simply come to school and make any attempt to do the work.

Are we comparing 50k private schools with schools that have high truancy rates? Because I bet the kids from Thomas Jefferson or Bronx Science would like a word.

You are totally missing the point (or being purposely obtuse). MOST public schools (which is the vast majority of kids applying to college) inflate grades - privates (and public magnets which are basically privates paid for by our taxes) don’t. Magnets make up a very small percentage of public schools…

we don't have magnets in nyc so I'm lost on that point. but I'm trying to make things clear. most colleges are not at all selective, so this is moot. if you're talking selective colleges, then no, the vast majority aren't coming from public. It's usually more public than private, but not by a vast number. rigorous public schools don't inflate grades. I've never heard of retakes, but obviously this is something thats happening in Arlington. Can't imagine the resources that would require and most rigorous public schools don't have those resources.

Parents in this are area are care about the most selective colleges so grade inflation matters here (that’s why they are sending them to rigorous magnets or privates). It’s disingenuous to say the “vast majority of kids” at selective schools aren’t coming from public. In fact, 60 percent or more are coming from public.

The DC area has some of THE most rigorous schools in the country. Virginia and Maryland rank in the top ten states for education and the DC area schools are at the top for those lists (Fairfax and MCPS are top in the nation). They are all are doing equitable grading which results in grade inflation.

[b]I think we have some of the most rigorous publics. We have strong private schools, but not top in the country.

"You think" but the data doesn't back you up. We're not even in the top 5 states in the US and aside from TJ don't have a high school in the top 100 schools.
Similarly, there are only 4 DC privates routinely in the top 100 privates in the US: NCS, STA, GDS, Sidwell.

So we don't have the strongest pool of privates in the USA and we don't have the strongest pool of publics in the USA.
We have decently strong publics and decently strong privates.
The top kids at each are getting into the same colleges, despite their differing GPAs (based on different grading scales).
THE END.