WashPost: College is remade as tech majors surge and humanities dwindle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Consequently, a lot of STEM grads can’t read or write.

This is one of those occasions when manifestation won't work, or did you miss that in your comparative religions seminar?

What is a “comparative religions,” in the plural, seminar? When you compare religions which are, respectively, more than one religion? Trying to get my head around that, logically, but I can’t. If only I had majored in CS.

You sound like my secretary.. nitpicking every sentence i write, when the meaning of what I meant to convey is really clear to everyone else. Need to fire that cow.. Nancy, is that you?

Ick, you have a fantasy life, but so squalid. That meaning meant *is* clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I could find new grads who could code Verilog or Embedded C/POSIX, I would hire 5 today. I’d pay more if they had experience with ARM assembly and could do kernel debugging or Verilog verification.

As it is, I do not have any work for the numerous Java/PHP/Python/x86 assembly programmers whose resumes flood in. Most CS new grads do not have the knowledge or skills we need. We pay above average for people with the right skills… sigh.

Then you don’t want college grads. You want people who have a certification in a specific code, since in a year you’ll be listing different ones and the following year also different ones.

We have wanted roughly the same skills for at least 25 years, and will want the same for another 20. (The big change is that 20 years ago, we wanted MIPS not ARM.) And we DO hire new grads with those skills, although they are scarce (meaning we pay more).

But you missed the point, which is that different aspects of CS are in surplus or shortage. Easier skills are often in surplus, meaning paid less and less stable employment, while the harder skills are ALWAYS in shortage. Students need to understand that not all CS degrees are equal, it matters what electives one takes, and also students need to consider which parts of CS they are interested in. Its a big field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The collapse in humanities majors is not just because of the popularity of tech majors in the modern economy. Humanities are becoming a joke on many campuses. People talking about their humanities degrees from 30 years go keep forgetting it's not 1993 any more. There's been a revolution in how the humanities are taught and the academic experience is, let's put it as politely as possible, not as rigorous or insightful as it once was. Because of the courses taught by the current generation of college professors, fewer students are drawn to the humanities.

I do think higher education is going to go through a massive restructuring in the next few decades as people reevaluate their relationship with colleges and studying, especially in the age of AI in conjunction with the new ideological attitudes that have come to dominate higher education, and, of course costs.

Agree. I have no issue with humanities students who study hard and excel in their fields. But on average their study habits and work ethic are far worse than engineering students. Too many humanities students party too much and have too many distractions during 4 years of college. The bad news is that employers know it. Even those jobs that don’t require specialized technical knowledge, they know the difference between the work ethic of an engineering student v. a humanities student, unless the humanities student is from a top school with a top GPA.

I work with scientists, and by and large they are a bunch of entitled whiners. Their work ethic only extends to what strokes their ego.

DP..

Engineering majors get paid a lot more with an undergrad than most humanities majors, and there's a reason for that.

Engineering salaries are flat. Period. They usually do not go on to an advanced degree and don’t break $200k over time.

I’m a female STEM BS/MS that works with a ton of engineers. I make $180k/yr 28 years in my career.

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

I’m literally the only STEM worker in my entire wealthy neighborhood filled with lawyers and lobbyists and a few TV new/policy commentators.

My dear, you understand that lawyers need an advanced degree, right? While engineering majors don't to make that six figures.

Also, as a STEM major, you really ought to understand statistics vs anecdata.

Also, as a somewhat intelligent person, you should also understand that a humanities major at a T10 can use connections and networks to get the high paying jobs. The vast majority of humanities majors did not/do not go to a T10, and they don't make six figures 10 years out without a graduate degree, whereas engineering majors do, without a graduate degree. There goes that pesky statistics again.

Can you not read? I said most engineers do not go for a graduate degree and have stable - but not astronomical salaries. They stay at that $200k range.

Liberal arts/humanities from a great school—well-read, excellent writers, consolidate many facts do go onto to advanced degrees/professional degrees and these are the people with the 7-figure salaries in my neighborhood. The engineers and scientists like me are Feds and govt contractors making just around $200k still after 25 years.

And I have two kids that excel in BOTH in STEM and history/English/Modern languages. 5s on all AP exams and straight AS. Some of us can do both just as well—left AND right brained with high EQ.

But here is the problem: For every liberal arts graduate making seven-digit income, there are a hundred if not a thousand liberal arts graduates sitting in their mommy’s basement tweeting how unfair the society is.

Prove that with statistics / studies. You are so strongly attached to number crunching and technical knowledge you should be able to dredge that information up. Or is making a logical, persuasive argument using citations too much of a squishy humanities thing for you?

DP but just go google midcareer salaries by major. There are a couple of websites that track it and humanities majors are some of the lowest of the low. Weird majors like soil science may be a bit lower but there is almost nothing lower paid at age ~40 than a humanities degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The collapse in humanities majors is not just because of the popularity of tech majors in the modern economy. Humanities are becoming a joke on many campuses. People talking about their humanities degrees from 30 years go keep forgetting it's not 1993 any more. There's been a revolution in how the humanities are taught and the academic experience is, let's put it as politely as possible, not as rigorous or insightful as it once was. Because of the courses taught by the current generation of college professors, fewer students are drawn to the humanities.

I do think higher education is going to go through a massive restructuring in the next few decades as people reevaluate their relationship with colleges and studying, especially in the age of AI in conjunction with the new ideological attitudes that have come to dominate higher education, and, of course costs.

Agree. I have no issue with humanities students who study hard and excel in their fields. But on average their study habits and work ethic are far worse than engineering students. Too many humanities students party too much and have too many distractions during 4 years of college. The bad news is that employers know it. Even those jobs that don’t require specialized technical knowledge, they know the difference between the work ethic of an engineering student v. a humanities student, unless the humanities student is from a top school with a top GPA.

I work with scientists, and by and large they are a bunch of entitled whiners. Their work ethic only extends to what strokes their ego.

DP..

Engineering majors get paid a lot more with an undergrad than most humanities majors, and there's a reason for that.

Engineering salaries are flat. Period. They usually do not go on to an advanced degree and don’t break $200k over time.

I’m a female STEM BS/MS that works with a ton of engineers. I make $180k/yr 28 years in my career.

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

I’m literally the only STEM worker in my entire wealthy neighborhood filled with lawyers and lobbyists and a few TV new/policy commentators.

My dear, you understand that lawyers need an advanced degree, right? While engineering majors don't to make that six figures.

Also, as a STEM major, you really ought to understand statistics vs anecdata.

Also, as a somewhat intelligent person, you should also understand that a humanities major at a T10 can use connections and networks to get the high paying jobs. The vast majority of humanities majors did not/do not go to a T10, and they don't make six figures 10 years out without a graduate degree, whereas engineering majors do, without a graduate degree. There goes that pesky statistics again.

Can you not read? I said most engineers do not go for a graduate degree and have stable - but not astronomical salaries. They stay at that $200k range.

Liberal arts/humanities from a great school—well-read, excellent writers, consolidate many facts do go onto to advanced degrees/professional degrees and these are the people with the 7-figure salaries in my neighborhood. The engineers and scientists like me are Feds and govt contractors making just around $200k still after 25 years.

And I have two kids that excel in BOTH in STEM and history/English/Modern languages. 5s on all AP exams and straight AS. Some of us can do both just as well—left AND right brained with high EQ.

But here is the problem: For every liberal arts graduate making seven-digit income, there are a hundred if not a thousand liberal arts graduates sitting in their mommy’s basement tweeting how unfair the society is.

There really aren’t. College grads land in jobs, it isn’t always obvious why a history major is doing UI/UX but it works out. Anyway you can say the same for engineers/CS some leverage it into management, but most are cubicle drones doing repetitive office work, with no self-actualiztion.

The key to anyone’s lifelong career growth (or entrepreneurship if they decide to start their own) is not about which major they chose. There is no dispute that engineering and CS majors coming out of school have a huge advantage over LA/social studies majors in their first professional job. But even a lot of engineers can’t really maintain their career path in engineering over a lifetime. Technology advances too fast. The key is being able to learn new things and adapt to change. The smart and diligent ones can learn and adapt regardless of whether they majored in STEM or LA a long time ago. The stupid and lazy ones can’t (although those people most likely would not have survived any half-decent engineering school’s BS program anyway, let alone any respectable engineering school).

UX/UI are more about analyzing behavior than about technical skill, so it makes sense when they aren’t technical, although I think business majors make good business analysis, and often that’s where they come from, as opposed to History. Also, entry level UX/UI doesn’t make much and involves a lot of customer interaction.

Anyway, I otherwise agree with he post above. I have a CS degree from the early 2000s and I stopped being a programmer years ago because I was never exceptional at it and my skillset moved me into program management and strategy. The technical background is great for these roles but it’s not something most technical people are willing or able to do. I think having some CS graduates with foundational knowledge will make the PM role much better than people coming from Communications backgrounds who don’t know what technical people are saying. While new grads wouldn’t make great fits, after a few years they can be trained well. That said, there were no graduates and now there are too many. It’s a hard major where it’s well taught but I think some of the programs aren’t good. It will take some time to even out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am have a BA in art, DH has a BA in English, we both have law degrees and successful public policy careers.

Our kids will study what they are passionate about, likely not STEM (their decision not ours) and we are lucky they will come out of college without student debt. That would be my goal for them regardless of whether we were full pay or full FA and regardless of major. We fall in the middle, the proverbial donut hole that can afford a private school with decent merit aid or public.

I strongly believe that engaging deeply in subjects that interest you will lead to stronger critical thinking skills than forcing a particular major because of perceived marketability. My kid’s are good at math but their greatest strengths lie in the humanities. We also will support them in learning how you turn a humanities degree into a career. It’s not that we don’t believe they should get good jobs, we just don’t agree there is only one way.

I am a BA history with a law degree. I will never advise my kids to follow a career path that is not a skill that is marketable. Maybe at an Ivy League, never at a state school. Their college and grad school is paid for, but never for a soft degree without a skill attached. I was pushed to be a History major over a business degree, and it made everything more difficult.

Exactly this. ROI is everything. I would never pay for a humanities or art major.

Well everyone is different. Some of us value a life of the mind and don’t view the point of this world through transactional, ROI lens.

[You don't need to pay $90k/year to have a "life of the mind". ]

We could afford to pay for our kids’ schools and let them decide what to study. If we couldn’t have afforded college for them, they would have done what I did which was get some loans, work, and receive lots of financial aid/grants. My parents paid nothing for my expensive private university. Majored in something you’d roll your eyes at and now have a job making 6 figures at a prominent institution working on things that matter to me. So glad I wasn’t forced to major in something that didn’t interest me.

[We're not rolling our eyes at your major, we're rolling our eyes at you bragging about your "job making 6 figures at a prominent institution working on things that matter to me." ]

[Anonymous]

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

It's always hilarious when someone trots out a predictable, stupid anecdote like this, as if this experience, even if actually true, is in any way typical of people who have a humanities BA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

It's always hilarious when someone trots out a predictable, stupid anecdote like this, as if this experience, even if actually true, is in any way typical of people who have a humanities BA.

These people have very poor thinking skills.
Probably got those job via rich daddy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The collapse in humanities majors is not just because of the popularity of tech majors in the modern economy. Humanities are becoming a joke on many campuses. People talking about their humanities degrees from 30 years go keep forgetting it's not 1993 any more. There's been a revolution in how the humanities are taught and the academic experience is, let's put it as politely as possible, not as rigorous or insightful as it once was. Because of the courses taught by the current generation of college professors, fewer students are drawn to the humanities.

I do think higher education is going to go through a massive restructuring in the next few decades as people reevaluate their relationship with colleges and studying, especially in the age of AI in conjunction with the new ideological attitudes that have come to dominate higher education, and, of course costs.

Agree. I have no issue with humanities students who study hard and excel in their fields. But on average their study habits and work ethic are far worse than engineering students. Too many humanities students party too much and have too many distractions during 4 years of college. The bad news is that employers know it. Even those jobs that don’t require specialized technical knowledge, they know the difference between the work ethic of an engineering student v. a humanities student, unless the humanities student is from a top school with a top GPA.

I work with scientists, and by and large they are a bunch of entitled whiners. Their work ethic only extends to what strokes their ego.

DP..

Engineering majors get paid a lot more with an undergrad than most humanities majors, and there's a reason for that.

Engineering salaries are flat. Period. They usually do not go on to an advanced degree and don’t break $200k over time.

I’m a female STEM BS/MS that works with a ton of engineers. I make $180k/yr 28 years in my career.

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

I’m literally the only STEM worker in my entire wealthy neighborhood filled with lawyers and lobbyists and a few TV new/policy commentators.

My dear, you understand that lawyers need an advanced degree, right? While engineering majors don't to make that six figures.

Also, as a STEM major, you really ought to understand statistics vs anecdata.

Also, as a somewhat intelligent person, you should also understand that a humanities major at a T10 can use connections and networks to get the high paying jobs. The vast majority of humanities majors did not/do not go to a T10, and they don't make six figures 10 years out without a graduate degree, whereas engineering majors do, without a graduate degree. There goes that pesky statistics again.

Can you not read? I said most engineers do not go for a graduate degree and have stable - but not astronomical salaries. They stay at that $200k range.

Liberal arts/humanities from a great school—well-read, excellent writers, consolidate many facts do go onto to advanced degrees/professional degrees and these are the people with the 7-figure salaries in my neighborhood. The engineers and scientists like me are Feds and govt contractors making just around $200k still after 25 years.

And I have two kids that excel in BOTH in STEM and history/English/Modern languages. 5s on all AP exams and straight AS. Some of us can do both just as well—left AND right brained with high EQ.

But here is the problem: For every liberal arts graduate making seven-digit income, there are a hundred if not a thousand liberal arts graduates sitting in their mommy’s basement tweeting how unfair the society is.

Prove that with statistics / studies. You are so strongly attached to number crunching and technical knowledge you should be able to dredge that information up. Or is making a logical, persuasive argument using citations too much of a squishy humanities thing for you?

DP but just go google midcareer salaries by major. There are a couple of websites that track it and humanities majors are some of the lowest of the low. Weird majors like soil science may be a bit lower but there is almost nothing lower paid at age ~40 than a humanities degree.

👍👍

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

It's always hilarious when someone trots out a predictable, stupid anecdote like this, as if this experience, even if actually true, is in any way typical of people who have a humanities BA.

For every humanities BA like this guy making $550k per year, there are hundreds if not thousands of history BAs sitting in their mommies and daddies’ basements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

It's always hilarious when someone trots out a predictable, stupid anecdote like this, as if this experience, even if actually true, is in any way typical of people who have a humanities BA.

For every humanities BA like this guy making $550k per year, there are hundreds if not thousands of history BAs sitting in their mommies and daddies’ basements.

Humanities BAs, not just history BAs. 😊

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

It's always hilarious when someone trots out a predictable, stupid anecdote like this, as if this experience, even if actually true, is in any way typical of people who have a humanities BA.

PP specified T10. If you go to a T10, it matters less what you major in. If you go to a directional state school, you either need a useful major, family connections, or a lot of luck. A kid at Harvard can major in history, sociology, or anything else they choose to and still expect to end up with a great career. A kid going to Radford doesn't have that same freedom if they want to earn a decent living

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

It's always hilarious when someone trots out a predictable, stupid anecdote like this, as if this experience, even if actually true, is in any way typical of people who have a humanities BA.

PP specified T10. If you go to a T10, it matters less what you major in. If you go to a directional state school, you either need a useful major, family connections, or a lot of luck. A kid at Harvard can major in history, sociology, or anything else they choose to and still expect to end up with a great career. A kid going to Radford doesn't have that same freedom if they want to earn a decent living

As someone who went to a directional state school and had no family connections, this is pretty true depending on your career & life goals. My non-STEM friends all seem to have made fine lives for themselves and are happy. From a more specific "career success" and $$ perspective, the STEM grads are making more. Almost moved away from our home state. Other majors are doing OK. Most stayed in our home state, but not all. Some went on to sales or other careers where income potential is unlimited.

If I was going to attend a top college paid for by my family, I may have chosen differently. But STEM has provided both my spouse and I with an extremely financially stable and privileged life, much more than either of our families of origin. Our kids will have more choices than we did, but we'll still help them consider employability as one factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

It's always hilarious when someone trots out a predictable, stupid anecdote like this, as if this experience, even if actually true, is in any way typical of people who have a humanities BA.

PP specified T10. If you go to a T10, it matters less what you major in. If you go to a directional state school, you either need a useful major, family connections, or a lot of luck. A kid at Harvard can major in history, sociology, or anything else they choose to and still expect to end up with a great career. A kid going to Radford doesn't have that same freedom if they want to earn a decent living

$550k is not anywhere close to typical even for Harvard humanities majors. Their earnings at age 45 will be much closer to $100k than $300k or $500k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Consequently, a lot of STEM grads can’t read or write.

This is one of those occasions when manifestation won't work, or did you miss that in your comparative religions seminar?

What is a “comparative religions,” in the plural, seminar? When you compare religions which are, respectively, more than one religion? Trying to get my head around that, logically, but I can’t. If only I had majored in CS.

You sound like my secretary.. nitpicking every sentence i write, when the meaning of what I meant to convey is really clear to everyone else. Need to fire that cow.. Nancy, is that you?

Ick, you have a fantasy life, but so squalid. That meaning meant *is* clear.

You've stopped making sense Nancy.. You are fired! Waddle out of the office NOW!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

It's always hilarious when someone trots out a predictable, stupid anecdote like this, as if this experience, even if actually true, is in any way typical of people who have a humanities BA.

PP specified T10. If you go to a T10, it matters less what you major in. If you go to a directional state school, you either need a useful major, family connections, or a lot of luck. A kid at Harvard can major in history, sociology, or anything else they choose to and still expect to end up with a great career. A kid going to Radford doesn't have that same freedom if they want to earn a decent living

$550k is not anywhere close to typical even for Harvard humanities majors. Their earnings at age 45 will be much closer to $100k than $300k or $500k.

300k is still more than most people. Harvard will give them the ability to get on that track. A history major coming out of Salisbury State will need a lot of luck to ever end up on that kind of track.