If you left Big Law…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Going from partner of counsel is a terrible idea unless the person is nearing retirement.

OP, I think you just don't want to work? You could be a public school kindergarten teacher and bring in a good salary with benefits. Your husband would indeed need to step up and do more childcare and housework.

Alternatively, he goes to government and you guys significantly belt tighten. My husband makes 120k, our mortgage is 3k, and we dont live off savings. We budget and live within his salary in the DC area.

You should not live off savings unless he is one hundred percent certain he will go back into big law. And why would he? Why would he be willing to do biglaw in a few years if not now?

How would you know that it is a terrible idea--especially if the alternative is that this partner will leave the firm for a government job ?

If the responses in this thread are by lawyers, you should know better than to state conclusions without knowing the particulars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think OP shouldn’t dismiss a teacher’s salary. They make a good salary here given all the breaks they have. Also I am confused why a SAHM eats out with her kids all the time? And I am a former big law associate turned SAHM of 3 (with no regrets!).

+1. This area is about as good as it gets for teacher salaries and she'd have summers off. It's not nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I am the poster who asked why your husband is miserable.

I know many biglaw partners who are quite happy and have been for decades.

OP: Maybe it is because this is a DC based website, but the responses are unusual in my experience for one in your situation. I wonder how many posters are actually in biglaw based on the responses.

Your husband wants to quit after his most financially successful year. Of course, there is stress for one with a family of 5 to support and for one generating over a million dollars in annual income. In my opinion, he should tough it out for a few more years to see how he adjusts. If unwilling to do so, then there are more options than just government work. However, SEC attorneys can make about $250,000 while other US government attorneys at the GS-15 level are earning in the $160s to low $180s.

Anyone in biglaw should be aware of at least two other options--going in-house or making an "Of Counsel" agreement instead of being a partner.

Have a very different experience re: the first bolded. Spouse and I both started careers in biglaw and most partners we know/knew are very unhappy. Being happy requires finding the right niche practice area and a special personality type.

That said, agree re: the second bolded. I'd absolutely recommend looking at in-house or Of Counsel arrangements. Should be able to find better income/happiness balance.

Yeah, DH is a lawyer and has done Big Law (two different firms), in house a few places, and is now a partner at a small firm. Most everyone he knows professionally is a lawyer. Almost none of the partners are happy except 1 or 2 notable exceptions who basically don't have to do legal work any more. One just develops work (and is amazing at it) and then hands it off, and the other is a firm managing partner so essentially runs the firm but doesn't service clients. All the other partners we know hate it. Many of them have made their peace and straight up said they are not willing to walk away from the money even if they are unhappy. They have big mortgages and private school bills to pay. Others did leave and are much happier, but those are the ones who were more prudent financially.

But until OP and her husband actually crunch numbers, which it does NOT sound like they have done, they have no clue if they can do what they are proposing. Given their relatively low savings, I suspect she spends much more than she realizes, even if its not on anything fancy. DH and I have determined we need about $225k annual income to what we call "keep the lights on." To us this means pay mortgage and utilities, taxes, maintenence, maximize retirement and college savings vehicles, pay for reasonable (but not fancy) kid activities and take non fancy vacations. This does NOT include purchasing new cars, major home renovations beyond maintenance, or fancy "special" vacations. So we pay for those with the money we make over $225k and those would all be cut if we suddently needed to live on $225k. How OP would do it on a Gov salary is beyond me.

+1

Former Big Law (part-time, left as Of Counsel after a dozen years), now in house.

Run the numbers based on the last 6 months or so, then figure out your “keep the lights on” amount and figure out how you can either reduce it or get to the right HHI if the Govt job doesn’t get him there. Do it together.

We’re considering something similar - seeing if my H can strike out in his own as a consultant vs being a gov’t contractor (retired Fed). Our HHI before taxes between his pension and my salary is ~$290K w/o my $50-60K annual bonus, includes health insurance, one kid in elementary school with a healthy 529, and a mortgage that’s lower that OP’s by almost $1k, more in long term savings/retirement and I’m a little nervous. We have to figure out our “keep the lights on” number ourselves…

“keep the lights on” PP do you mind sharing your rough numbers? I keep getting caught up in what if scenarios and having a hard time getting started, and would love a starting point!

Keep the lights on here.

We aim to spend about $12k/month although is not evenly distributed because we pay our property taxes and home insurance ourselves 2x a year, not in escrow. Our 15 year mortgage is about $3300. We do not have car payments or any other loans. We spend about $200/month total on internet and cellular for 4 people. Kids activities are about $250/month per kid (we have 2.) We don’t have cleaners or lawn service. We do pay $500 once per year in spring for weeding/pruning/mulching. We assume about $1k/month in a vacation fund ($12k/year.) I spend about $1200/month at Costco/grocery. We probably spend $250/month in takeout and rarely actually eat out.

There are obviously other expenses too. We don’t track it all super closely any more because we’ve been doing it so long and we are frugal by nature, DH especially. If you have any specific questions I’m happy to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going from partner of counsel is a terrible idea unless the person is nearing retirement.

OP, I think you just don't want to work? You could be a public school kindergarten teacher and bring in a good salary with benefits. Your husband would indeed need to step up and do more childcare and housework.

Alternatively, he goes to government and you guys significantly belt tighten. My husband makes 120k, our mortgage is 3k, and we dont live off savings. We budget and live within his salary in the DC area.

You should not live off savings unless he is one hundred percent certain he will go back into big law. And why would he? Why would he be willing to do biglaw in a few years if not now?

How would you know that it is a terrible idea--especially if the alternative is that this partner will leave the firm for a government job ?

If the responses in this thread are by lawyers, you should know better than to state conclusions without knowing the particulars.

I am a lawyer. I cannot imagine working hard to make partner and then giving that up to be a counsel after a year. It would look weird. It is harder to bring in business as a counsel. Associates and support staff don't work for you as intently or prioritize your work as much. Counsels often work just as hard but for less respect, pay, control over your life, etc.

Deciding to just shoot for counsel and not buy into the partnership is one thing. Negotiate a decent salary, perhaps lower hours. Momm track. But gunning for partner, making it, paying in, and then saying, "Nah, I want to be counsel"? You are screwing yourself over and everyone will be wondering, hmm, what happened there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think OP shouldn’t dismiss a teacher’s salary. They make a good salary here given all the breaks they have. Also I am confused why a SAHM eats out with her kids all the time? And I am a former big law associate turned SAHM of 3 (with no regrets!).

Agree with this…I WFH FT and make $300K. I’m 28 weeks pregnant with my third and make dinner every night of the week (except Friday, we go out or get takeout). My husband doesn’t get home until 7 pm most nights and after dinner and clean up I have 1-2 hours of work calls on M, T, W…If I can do it (and it’s not easy, but it’s doable to prep and throw something in the oven at 5:45) someone with kids in school all day can do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I am the poster who asked why your husband is miserable.

I know many biglaw partners who are quite happy and have been for decades.

OP: Maybe it is because this is a DC based website, but the responses are unusual in my experience for one in your situation. I wonder how many posters are actually in biglaw based on the responses.

Your husband wants to quit after his most financially successful year. Of course, there is stress for one with a family of 5 to support and for one generating over a million dollars in annual income. In my opinion, he should tough it out for a few more years to see how he adjusts. If unwilling to do so, then there are more options than just government work. However, SEC attorneys can make about $250,000 while other US government attorneys at the GS-15 level are earning in the $160s to low $180s.

Anyone in biglaw should be aware of at least two other options--going in-house or making an "Of Counsel" agreement instead of being a partner.

I have worked in big law. You haven't. And it's bizarre that you, who only 'knows' people who work in big law, claim to know better.

You also don't know the legal market all that well. Depending on speciality, in house can mean just as long of hours as big law, but at far less pay.

A young partner going to 'of counsel' will not be well received.

You don't know much.

Of counsel arrangements can--and are--tailor made based on individual needs & circumstances. If OP's husband is an expert in a particular area, he can negotiate an of counsel agreement with his current firm or with another firm. Whether or not his desire will be well received is largely dependent upon his specialty & the current market for that special knowledge.

LOL at your generalization of in-house counsel. I doubt that you have much experience. Clearly, you know little about in-house compensation arrangements and hours and lifestyle and clearly you are unfamiliar with the flexibility and use of of counsel arrangements.

Your angry tone and silly accusations do nothing to enhance your craving for credibility and superiority. The fact that you have posted without discussing the options of going in-house or of counsel speaks volumes.

If I may make a suggestion based on the tone & content of your posts in this thread, please see a proctologist ASAP.

What do "of counsel" and "in house counsel" mean?

- just curious, non-lawyer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I am the poster who asked why your husband is miserable.

I know many biglaw partners who are quite happy and have been for decades.

OP: Maybe it is because this is a DC based website, but the responses are unusual in my experience for one in your situation. I wonder how many posters are actually in biglaw based on the responses.

Your husband wants to quit after his most financially successful year. Of course, there is stress for one with a family of 5 to support and for one generating over a million dollars in annual income. In my opinion, he should tough it out for a few more years to see how he adjusts. If unwilling to do so, then there are more options than just government work. However, SEC attorneys can make about $250,000 while other US government attorneys at the GS-15 level are earning in the $160s to low $180s.

Anyone in biglaw should be aware of at least two other options--going in-house or making an "Of Counsel" agreement instead of being a partner.

I have worked in big law. You haven't. And it's bizarre that you, who only 'knows' people who work in big law, claim to know better.

You also don't know the legal market all that well. Depending on speciality, in house can mean just as long of hours as big law, but at far less pay.

A young partner going to 'of counsel' will not be well received.

You don't know much.

Of counsel arrangements can--and are--tailor made based on individual needs & circumstances. If OP's husband is an expert in a particular area, he can negotiate an of counsel agreement with his current firm or with another firm. Whether or not his desire will be well received is largely dependent upon his specialty & the current market for that special knowledge.

LOL at your generalization of in-house counsel. I doubt that you have much experience. Clearly, you know little about in-house compensation arrangements and hours and lifestyle and clearly you are unfamiliar with the flexibility and use of of counsel arrangements.

Your angry tone and silly accusations do nothing to enhance your craving for credibility and superiority. The fact that you have posted without discussing the options of going in-house or of counsel speaks volumes.

If I may make a suggestion based on the tone & content of your posts in this thread, please see a proctologist ASAP.

What do "of counsel" and "in house counsel" mean?

- just curious, non-lawyer

"Of Counsel" is the title given to senior attorneys in Big Law who for whatever reason are not partners. The reasons can vary and the meaning varies somewhat firm to firm. Its higher than Senior Associate but lower than Partner.

"In House Counsel" means you work as a lawyer for a company and no longer work in a law firm with "outside" clients. Your work is all done "in house" for the company that hired you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think OP shouldn’t dismiss a teacher’s salary. They make a good salary here given all the breaks they have. Also I am confused why a SAHM eats out with her kids all the time? And I am a former big law associate turned SAHM of 3 (with no regrets!).

Agree with this…I WFH FT and make $300K. I’m 28 weeks pregnant with my third and make dinner every night of the week (except Friday, we go out or get takeout). My husband doesn’t get home until 7 pm most nights and after dinner and clean up I have 1-2 hours of work calls on M, T, W…If I can do it (and it’s not easy, but it’s doable to prep and throw something in the oven at 5:45) someone with kids in school all day can do it.

But your life doesn’t sound enviable in the slightest. Technically OP could do it, but why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I am the poster who asked why your husband is miserable.

I know many biglaw partners who are quite happy and have been for decades.

OP: Maybe it is because this is a DC based website, but the responses are unusual in my experience for one in your situation. I wonder how many posters are actually in biglaw based on the responses.

Your husband wants to quit after his most financially successful year. Of course, there is stress for one with a family of 5 to support and for one generating over a million dollars in annual income. In my opinion, he should tough it out for a few more years to see how he adjusts. If unwilling to do so, then there are more options than just government work. However, SEC attorneys can make about $250,000 while other US government attorneys at the GS-15 level are earning in the $160s to low $180s.

Anyone in biglaw should be aware of at least two other options--going in-house or making an "Of Counsel" agreement instead of being a partner.

Have a very different experience re: the first bolded. Spouse and I both started careers in biglaw and most partners we know/knew are very unhappy. Being happy requires finding the right niche practice area and a special personality type.

That said, agree re: the second bolded. I'd absolutely recommend looking at in-house or Of Counsel arrangements. Should be able to find better income/happiness balance.

Yeah, DH is a lawyer and has done Big Law (two different firms), in house a few places, and is now a partner at a small firm. Most everyone he knows professionally is a lawyer. Almost none of the partners are happy except 1 or 2 notable exceptions who basically don't have to do legal work any more. One just develops work (and is amazing at it) and then hands it off, and the other is a firm managing partner so essentially runs the firm but doesn't service clients. All the other partners we know hate it. Many of them have made their peace and straight up said they are not willing to walk away from the money even if they are unhappy. They have big mortgages and private school bills to pay. Others did leave and are much happier, but those are the ones who were more prudent financially.

But until OP and her husband actually crunch numbers, which it does NOT sound like they have done, they have no clue if they can do what they are proposing. Given their relatively low savings, I suspect she spends much more than she realizes, even if its not on anything fancy. DH and I have determined we need about $225k annual income to what we call "keep the lights on." To us this means pay mortgage and utilities, taxes, maintenence, maximize retirement and college savings vehicles, pay for reasonable (but not fancy) kid activities and take non fancy vacations. This does NOT include purchasing new cars, major home renovations beyond maintenance, or fancy "special" vacations. So we pay for those with the money we make over $225k and those would all be cut if we suddently needed to live on $225k. How OP would do it on a Gov salary is beyond me.

I'm a lawyer who works with a lot of BigLaw firms. I don't think most who make it to partner actually hate the work--most enjoy it to some extent or they wouldn't have gotten that far. I think most just hate the quantity of work and how it takes over all aspects of your life. Some hate their firm politics, but that is very firm dependant. Others seem to find colleagues they actually like, and that helps make it all feel more tolerable, even if never ending.

Yep. It's the quantity of work. They would love to do it 50 hours a week.

And the fact that no vacation (or even weekend) is EVER just a vacation/weekend. There is always SOME work to do. Big Law partners do no vacation anywhere without reliable high speed internet and a place to get work done. I have heard this from countless partners. One literally travels with her own printer.

I am a partner at a big firm (top wall st firm) and literally never in my life heard of this…

But it IS true that I will never take a true vacation. I will always have to be sort of working….but I dont need a printer…ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I am the poster who asked why your husband is miserable.

I know many biglaw partners who are quite happy and have been for decades.

OP: Maybe it is because this is a DC based website, but the responses are unusual in my experience for one in your situation. I wonder how many posters are actually in biglaw based on the responses.

Your husband wants to quit after his most financially successful year. Of course, there is stress for one with a family of 5 to support and for one generating over a million dollars in annual income. In my opinion, he should tough it out for a few more years to see how he adjusts. If unwilling to do so, then there are more options than just government work. However, SEC attorneys can make about $250,000 while other US government attorneys at the GS-15 level are earning in the $160s to low $180s.

Anyone in biglaw should be aware of at least two other options--going in-house or making an "Of Counsel" agreement instead of being a partner.

Have a very different experience re: the first bolded. Spouse and I both started careers in biglaw and most partners we know/knew are very unhappy. Being happy requires finding the right niche practice area and a special personality type.

That said, agree re: the second bolded. I'd absolutely recommend looking at in-house or Of Counsel arrangements. Should be able to find better income/happiness balance.

Yeah, DH is a lawyer and has done Big Law (two different firms), in house a few places, and is now a partner at a small firm. Most everyone he knows professionally is a lawyer. Almost none of the partners are happy except 1 or 2 notable exceptions who basically don't have to do legal work any more. One just develops work (and is amazing at it) and then hands it off, and the other is a firm managing partner so essentially runs the firm but doesn't service clients. All the other partners we know hate it. Many of them have made their peace and straight up said they are not willing to walk away from the money even if they are unhappy. They have big mortgages and private school bills to pay. Others did leave and are much happier, but those are the ones who were more prudent financially.

But until OP and her husband actually crunch numbers, which it does NOT sound like they have done, they have no clue if they can do what they are proposing. Given their relatively low savings, I suspect she spends much more than she realizes, even if its not on anything fancy. DH and I have determined we need about $225k annual income to what we call "keep the lights on." To us this means pay mortgage and utilities, taxes, maintenence, maximize retirement and college savings vehicles, pay for reasonable (but not fancy) kid activities and take non fancy vacations. This does NOT include purchasing new cars, major home renovations beyond maintenance, or fancy "special" vacations. So we pay for those with the money we make over $225k and those would all be cut if we suddently needed to live on $225k. How OP would do it on a Gov salary is beyond me.

I'm a lawyer who works with a lot of BigLaw firms. I don't think most who make it to partner actually hate the work--most enjoy it to some extent or they wouldn't have gotten that far. I think most just hate the quantity of work and how it takes over all aspects of your life. Some hate their firm politics, but that is very firm dependant. Others seem to find colleagues they actually like, and that helps make it all feel more tolerable, even if never ending.

Yep. It's the quantity of work. They would love to do it 50 hours a week.

And the fact that no vacation (or even weekend) is EVER just a vacation/weekend. There is always SOME work to do. Big Law partners do no vacation anywhere without reliable high speed internet and a place to get work done. I have heard this from countless partners. One literally travels with her own printer.

I am a partner at a big firm (top wall st firm) and literally never in my life heard of this…

But it IS true that I will never take a true vacation. I will always have to be sort of working….but I dont need a printer…ever.

That was an extreme example of one peculiar partner. But I have never heard of a law from vacation that didn’t include work.

[Anonymous]

This is easy. It will be an enormous pay cut and initially an adjustment. But it is not at all uncommon for attorneys to make this particular move. Your husband will make enough to pay the mortgage. You will need savings for private preschool. You will need savings for extras (big vacations, new cars, etc.). You OP are likely going to want a job when the youngest goes to school full-time. Your income will cover the extras whatever they may be. Maybe get the degrees you need to teach not just at a private preschool etc. Your husband will have tons more time for the kids at an age you never get back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going from partner of counsel is a terrible idea unless the person is nearing retirement.

OP, I think you just don't want to work? You could be a public school kindergarten teacher and bring in a good salary with benefits. Your husband would indeed need to step up and do more childcare and housework.

Alternatively, he goes to government and you guys significantly belt tighten. My husband makes 120k, our mortgage is 3k, and we dont live off savings. We budget and live within his salary in the DC area.

You should not live off savings unless he is one hundred percent certain he will go back into big law. And why would he? Why would he be willing to do biglaw in a few years if not now?

How would you know that it is a terrible idea--especially if the alternative is that this partner will leave the firm for a government job ?

If the responses in this thread are by lawyers, you should know better than to state conclusions without knowing the particulars.

I am a lawyer. I cannot imagine working hard to make partner and then giving that up to be a counsel after a year. It would look weird. It is harder to bring in business as a counsel. Associates and support staff don't work for you as intently or prioritize your work as much. Counsels often work just as hard but for less respect, pay, control over your life, etc.

Deciding to just shoot for counsel and not buy into the partnership is one thing. Negotiate a decent salary, perhaps lower hours. Momm track. But gunning for partner, making it, paying in, and then saying, "Nah, I want to be counsel"? You are screwing yourself over and everyone will be wondering, hmm, what happened there?

You may be a lawyer, but your reading comprehension skills are not good. Please reread the very first sentence posted in this thread which clearly states that OP's husband has been a partner for 5 years now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH has been a Big Law partner for five years now (one of the top grossing firms in the country). He makes 7 figures including his bonus. And he hates it. He’s miserable. He wants to take a government job for a few years and test it out- says he doesn’t want at the end of his life to say he never tried something else. He’s in a pretty specialized law section and has been successful so he’s pretty confident he would get hired by the government and go back to private if/when he needs.

My question is for anyone who did this- what was your financial cushion? We have about $800,000 equity in our $1.6 M house, with a $4500 monthly mortage. Three kids, one in private preschool and two in public schools in bethesda. Two cars paid for. No debt. Close to $2M in savings not counting house equity. Close to $700,000 in 529’s for the kids (also not counted toward savings). DH feels comfortable living below our means for a few years and draining some of our savings so he can have a job that brings him happiness for some time, knowing he could go back to private if need be. It makes me more anxious. (And I do stay at home, it was a choice we both made when our oldest child was born. I was a preschool teacher and the cost of a nanny or daycare would have been more than I made.). We don’t live extravagant lives- no country clubs, not much expensive travel, no second homes, only once a month cleaners, etc. I want him to be happy more than anything but I worry about whether we can afford to live off of one government salary, even for a few years.

OP wrote:

"DH has been a Big Law partner for five years now...."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going from partner of counsel is a terrible idea unless the person is nearing retirement.

OP, I think you just don't want to work? You could be a public school kindergarten teacher and bring in a good salary with benefits. Your husband would indeed need to step up and do more childcare and housework.

Alternatively, he goes to government and you guys significantly belt tighten. My husband makes 120k, our mortgage is 3k, and we dont live off savings. We budget and live within his salary in the DC area.

You should not live off savings unless he is one hundred percent certain he will go back into big law. And why would he? Why would he be willing to do biglaw in a few years if not now?

How would you know that it is a terrible idea--especially if the alternative is that this partner will leave the firm for a government job ?

If the responses in this thread are by lawyers, you should know better than to state conclusions without knowing the particulars.

I am a lawyer. I cannot imagine working hard to make partner and then giving that up to be a counsel after a year. It would look weird. It is harder to bring in business as a counsel. Associates and support staff don't work for you as intently or prioritize your work as much. Counsels often work just as hard but for less respect, pay, control over your life, etc.

Deciding to just shoot for counsel and not buy into the partnership is one thing. Negotiate a decent salary, perhaps lower hours. Momm track. But gunning for partner, making it, paying in, and then saying, "Nah, I want to be counsel"? You are screwing yourself over and everyone will be wondering, hmm, what happened there?

You may be a lawyer, but your reading comprehension skills are not good. Please reread the very first sentence posted in this thread which clearly states that OP's husband has been a partner for 5 years now.

True, but she also wrote, “ So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.”

So he has not really cashed in the full benefit yet.

Five years or one, it looks weird for a man to go from partner to counsel if he is younger than mid fifties. It just does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going from partner of counsel is a terrible idea unless the person is nearing retirement.

OP, I think you just don't want to work? You could be a public school kindergarten teacher and bring in a good salary with benefits. Your husband would indeed need to step up and do more childcare and housework.

Alternatively, he goes to government and you guys significantly belt tighten. My husband makes 120k, our mortgage is 3k, and we dont live off savings. We budget and live within his salary in the DC area.

You should not live off savings unless he is one hundred percent certain he will go back into big law. And why would he? Why would he be willing to do biglaw in a few years if not now?

How would you know that it is a terrible idea--especially if the alternative is that this partner will leave the firm for a government job ?

If the responses in this thread are by lawyers, you should know better than to state conclusions without knowing the particulars.

I am a lawyer. I cannot imagine working hard to make partner and then giving that up to be a counsel after a year. It would look weird. It is harder to bring in business as a counsel. Associates and support staff don't work for you as intently or prioritize your work as much. Counsels often work just as hard but for less respect, pay, control over your life, etc.

Deciding to just shoot for counsel and not buy into the partnership is one thing. Negotiate a decent salary, perhaps lower hours. Momm track. But gunning for partner, making it, paying in, and then saying, "Nah, I want to be counsel"? You are screwing yourself over and everyone will be wondering, hmm, what happened there?

You may be a lawyer, but your reading comprehension skills are not good. Please reread the very first sentence posted in this thread which clearly states that OP's husband has been a partner for 5 years now.

True, but she also wrote, “ So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.”

So he has not really cashed in the full benefit yet.

Five years or one, it looks weird for a man to go from partner to counsel if he is younger than mid fifties. It just does.

Wow ! Just wow !

Is this a serious post ? (Sincere question--not trying to be impolite.)