Admin needs to back down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any teacher watching the above posted video before applying to MCPS certainly knows the expectations of its BOE and administrators.

Yeah. Brenda's default position is that any student who's referred for discipline for disrespect or disruption is due to "cultural" misunderstandings and that the teacher is to blame for said misunderstandings.

I don't know why she'd make that statement, unless she had detailed incident reports for all of the suspension cases, which I can tell she didn't since she had no clue what fell under the category of disrespect, even though it was listed and said several times during the presentation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools did not need to be closed for 18 months. Students did poorly with online learning. This all harmed students' learning. Educating students is why schools exist in the first place. To dismiss concerned parents as just wanting school for babysitters is bad faith. And to blame administrators' current behavior on concerned parents is bizarre reasoning. I'm sure this unhinged poster will find some reason to criticize grammar, lodge more personal attacks, or focus on some other irrelevant topic rather than deal with the issue.

Admin should deal with structural problems that interfere with student learning, such as the lack of meaningful consequences for student misbehavior, having serially disruptive students--whoever they may be--remain in the classroom, too much data collection, not providing decent pay or benefits to essential personnel such as paras, subs, etc., rather than try to micromanage teachers.

This, right here, is a huge issue. First of all, schools weren’t closed. Teachers were working their @sses off changing not only to a new platform, but had multiple new curriculums to learn. Any time a new curriculum is rolled out, test scores drop. Right here on DCUM, holier than thou parents touted their own teaching abilities and claimed they were now home schooling. No they weren’t, but by saying so undermined all the work teachers were stressing over to reach their students.

Fun fact (no, not really), when I was struggling with Algebra back in the 80s, my parents had to help me figure it out. They then hired a tutor to get me back on track. No virtual instruction to blame. Parents have been helping their children with their academics for ages. Great, that’s what a good parent does. In the past they supported learning at home, but because we were virtual, some parents went rogue and decided to let the schools deal with it. Kind of like a pissing match, as I heard one parent say, “If they want to shut down schools they can deal with getting my kid caught up.” In the meantime, the kids ultimately paid the price.

I’m not implying that virtual instruction didn’t come without faults, nor that it was the best for our students. We were in a pandemic, no one knew what the h3ll we were doing. But all of a sudden, teachers started getting attacked by parents for being lazy and inept. And if we voice our concerns are told to suck it up and stop whining. As a side note, the data shared is also wonky- the assessments used prior to the pandemic were’t the same as those used after we returned to in-school instruction so you aren’t comparing apples to apples making it somewhat invalid. Furthermore we were dealing with unreliable data from when our students were administered MAP assessments while virtual. Somehow our kinder students that tested at an 8th grade level no longer tested at that level when returning to in school instruction.

Combine all this post pandemic craziness with the expectation that RJ is the cure all to all of society’s woes, teachers don’t have admin nor parental support. The things our students get away with at school is INSANE. I’ve heard of teachers being asked to sit in a RJ circle with parents and a student. That’s ridiculous!

How to dig ourselves out of this mess?
1. Scratch half of the assessments required. This means mid module assessments, MAP, Mcap, DIBELS, etc. On the student end, some of these assessments only take 10 minutes. Per child. Multiply that by 25 for each student in the class, that is too much time the teachers are away from their students.
2. Return to play based kindergarten. Want to teach students how to problem solve, it starts young.
3. Stop changing the curriculum every few years. No single program is perfect. Nothing out there will meet the needs of all of our students. We get it, you want the program followed with fidelity per the contract you signed. Give teachers flexibility to tweak the program as needed.
4. Subs. Hire some. Make sure they know how to access their emails so when teachers send plans and slideshows, they can be used. We spend way too much time putting together plans, only to have subs that can’t do the basic functions of the job OR to not have a sub at all. In the event there isn’t a sub, either the classes get split (disruptive to multiple classrooms) or paras get pulled from other duties.
5. Allow staff to use their personal days. If our mental health is really valued, I should be able to email my admin that I need to take a personal day on xyz date and put in for a sub. Now we are required to go in person (eliminates a paper trail) and justify why we need time off. The fact that there aren’t enough subs is a central office problem. Don’t gaslight us and guilt us about what is best for our students. Are they worried about what is best for students? Interesting that they always gift themselves paid days off over winter break, when school based staff aren’t paid.
6. Respect and value us. This doesn’t mean putting candies in our mailboxes, hosting coffee on a cart, etc. It means support us, listen to us, value our input. Doesn’t just send out a not-very-anonymous survey and not do anything with it.
7. The pay isn’t terrible but it isn’t great. It should be competitive and match the cost of living for the county. COLA should be able to keep up with inflation. I can go a county or two over and make the same amount, and have far lower expenses.
8. Behavior. When teachers report in appropriate behaviors to admin, but the student’s version contradicts what was reported, admin will side with the student. Principals have been told to keep parents happy and keep their suspension numbers low. As a result, behaviors are terrible. Teachers have sent students down to the office and they have returned to class sucking on a lollipop after playing with legos.

Just a few of my rambling 3am thoughts… forgive any grammatical errors or typos

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish admin would sit in on some of my child's classes and see what's going on. Some teachers need more managing.

You have no idea what you're talking about. If you did, you'd know for the most part, admin doesn't know what to do in a classroom. Most haven't taught in years. Their advice is useless and filled with buzzwords for whatever is "hot" in education at the moment.

Wow, this is so defensive. YOU don't know what you're talking about because you don't even know what school or classes or principal PP is referring to. The principals I know are in touch w/ teachers and teaching and could absolutely be constructive in the classroom. They don't have time to do that, though. But, there are a variety, and I've known some bad ones too. But, same is true of teachers, so why the blanket statements?

Why are you arguing with people who actually spend every day in school buildings? Listen to them. Believe them. Until you are in there as an employee, stop talking as if you have any idea just bc you have some random anecdotes that are irrelevant to the actual conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BOE could do many things. Starting with eliminating ridiculous excess central office positions....hire full-time building subs, with benefits, at the step and rate the teacher would be hired as a regular classroom teacher. There are way too many positions that are useless in this district and important positions remain unfilled because working conditions, wages are stagnant, lack of benefits for support conditions, etc...etc... MCPS is a sinking ship. I know so many people changing districts next year. Many are taking pay cuts just to get the hell out of MCPS-things are that bad right now.

OMG OMG the sky is falling! What shall we do?

Do you really not think that kids and teachers feeling safe in schools is a priority? Talk to teachers- and not just at the W feeder schools. Try to understand what schools are like. Then report back.

Teacher at a W feeder school. It's just as bad as anywhere else.

Thank you! We left this cluster (and MCPS) because I was not impressed with staff. I appreciate your honestly. (At the time people thought we were crazy to leave our house). Super thankful to be gone

Kid is at a W middle school and says the principal is constantly screaming at everyone in the hallways, sometimes even scolding teachers in front of students. She thinks he’s losing it. Whether or not it’s thr admins’ fault, they’re the ones running the show in the school. Many seem to be falling apart at the seams.

The new grade level admin is a complete disaster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BOE could do many things. Starting with eliminating ridiculous excess central office positions....hire full-time building subs, with benefits, at the step and rate the teacher would be hired as a regular classroom teacher. There are way too many positions that are useless in this district and important positions remain unfilled because working conditions, wages are stagnant, lack of benefits for support conditions, etc...etc... MCPS is a sinking ship. I know so many people changing districts next year. Many are taking pay cuts just to get the hell out of MCPS-things are that bad right now.

OMG OMG the sky is falling! What shall we do?

Do you really not think that kids and teachers feeling safe in schools is a priority? Talk to teachers- and not just at the W feeder schools. Try to understand what schools are like. Then report back.

Teacher at a W feeder school. It's just as bad as anywhere else.

Thank you! We left this cluster (and MCPS) because I was not impressed with staff. I appreciate your honestly. (At the time people thought we were crazy to leave our house). Super thankful to be gone

Kid is at a W middle school and says the principal is constantly screaming at everyone in the hallways, sometimes even scolding teachers in front of students. She thinks he’s losing it. Whether or not it’s thr admins’ fault, they’re the ones running the show in the school. Many seem to be falling apart at the seams.

The new grade level admin is a complete disaster.

I think we may be talking about two different schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools did not need to be closed for 18 months. Students did poorly with online learning. This all harmed students' learning. Educating students is why schools exist in the first place. To dismiss concerned parents as just wanting school for babysitters is bad faith. And to blame administrators' current behavior on concerned parents is bizarre reasoning. I'm sure this unhinged poster will find some reason to criticize grammar, lodge more personal attacks, or focus on some other irrelevant topic rather than deal with the issue.

Admin should deal with structural problems that interfere with student learning, such as the lack of meaningful consequences for student misbehavior, having serially disruptive students--whoever they may be--remain in the classroom, too much data collection, not providing decent pay or benefits to essential personnel such as paras, subs, etc., rather than try to micromanage teachers.

This, right here, is a huge issue. First of all, schools weren’t closed. Teachers were working their @sses off changing not only to a new platform, but had multiple new curriculums to learn. Any time a new curriculum is rolled out, test scores drop. Right here on DCUM, holier than thou parents touted their own teaching abilities and claimed they were now home schooling. No they weren’t, but by saying so undermined all the work teachers were stressing over to reach their students.

Fun fact (no, not really), when I was struggling with Algebra back in the 80s, my parents had to help me figure it out. They then hired a tutor to get me back on track. No virtual instruction to blame. Parents have been helping their children with their academics for ages. Great, that’s what a good parent does. In the past they supported learning at home, but because we were virtual, some parents went rogue and decided to let the schools deal with it. Kind of like a pissing match, as I heard one parent say, “If they want to shut down schools they can deal with getting my kid caught up.” In the meantime, the kids ultimately paid the price.

I’m not implying that virtual instruction didn’t come without faults, nor that it was the best for our students. We were in a pandemic, no one knew what the h3ll we were doing. But all of a sudden, teachers started getting attacked by parents for being lazy and inept. And if we voice our concerns are told to suck it up and stop whining. As a side note, the data shared is also wonky- the assessments used prior to the pandemic were’t the same as those used after we returned to in-school instruction so you aren’t comparing apples to apples making it somewhat invalid. Furthermore we were dealing with unreliable data from when our students were administered MAP assessments while virtual. Somehow our kinder students that tested at an 8th grade level no longer tested at that level when returning to in school instruction.

Combine all this post pandemic craziness with the expectation that RJ is the cure all to all of society’s woes, teachers don’t have admin nor parental support. The things our students get away with at school is INSANE. I’ve heard of teachers being asked to sit in a RJ circle with parents and a student. That’s ridiculous!

How to dig ourselves out of this mess?
1. Scratch half of the assessments required. This means mid module assessments, MAP, Mcap, DIBELS, etc. On the student end, some of these assessments only take 10 minutes. Per child. Multiply that by 25 for each student in the class, that is too much time the teachers are away from their students.
2. Return to play based kindergarten. Want to teach students how to problem solve, it starts young.
3. Stop changing the curriculum every few years. No single program is perfect. Nothing out there will meet the needs of all of our students. We get it, you want the program followed with fidelity per the contract you signed. Give teachers flexibility to tweak the program as needed.
4. Subs. Hire some. Make sure they know how to access their emails so when teachers send plans and slideshows, they can be used. We spend way too much time putting together plans, only to have subs that can’t do the basic functions of the job OR to not have a sub at all. In the event there isn’t a sub, either the classes get split (disruptive to multiple classrooms) or paras get pulled from other duties.
5. Allow staff to use their personal days. If our mental health is really valued, I should be able to email my admin that I need to take a personal day on xyz date and put in for a sub. Now we are required to go in person (eliminates a paper trail) and justify why we need time off. The fact that there aren’t enough subs is a central office problem. Don’t gaslight us and guilt us about what is best for our students. Are they worried about what is best for students? Interesting that they always gift themselves paid days off over winter break, when school based staff aren’t paid.
6. Respect and value us. This doesn’t mean putting candies in our mailboxes, hosting coffee on a cart, etc. It means support us, listen to us, value our input. Doesn’t just send out a not-very-anonymous survey and not do anything with it.
7. The pay isn’t terrible but it isn’t great. It should be competitive and match the cost of living for the county. COLA should be able to keep up with inflation. I can go a county or two over and make the same amount, and have far lower expenses.
8. Behavior. When teachers report in appropriate behaviors to admin, but the student’s version contradicts what was reported, admin will side with the student. Principals have been told to keep parents happy and keep their suspension numbers low. As a result, behaviors are terrible. Teachers have sent students down to the office and they have returned to class sucking on a lollipop after playing with legos.

Just a few of my rambling 3am thoughts… forgive any grammatical errors or typos

Yes to everything written above!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the current sad state of MCPS really the fault of the admins? Seems far more likely that central office, the superintendent and her team and the BOE are the sources of failure here and not the admins, since they don't get to make up the rules and just like teachers and educators, have to comply with whatever diarrhea trickles down from the top.

I am an elementary school teacher and I believe that the largest issue is the BOE and superintendent. Principals have their hands tied with what discipline they are allowed to give and in elementary school, it is pretty much zero. Schools have been told that restorative justice fixes everything even though all research shows that restorative justice is only a piece of the puzzle. When children have no consequences, they learn to take advantage of it. This is true at homes and in schools. So the kids behaviors are worse due to no consequences and even with the escalating behaviors, there is nothing teachers or principals can do. The school board and central office are in offices just looking at data and patting themselves on the back for the lowered rates of detention and suspension when it is all a lie.

What I find most interesting is that it is elementary schools that seem to be experiencing the biggest issues right now. With no security guards, no way to discipline students, and teachers and kids being stuck with the same dangerous children all day (compared to 47-minute periods), everyone is miserable. I can't even imagine what the current elementary schoolers will be like when they get to high school if the current discipline strategies continue.

Central Office staff and the BOE need to be in the classrooms and see the consequences of their decisions.

Who says ES have the most issues? I can guarantee you that MS folks do not feel that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our principal is wonderful but he has a boss too and can't just cancel everything because we are stressed. The hardest part right now is the student behavior. My friends think I'm joking when I tell them what elementary kids are doing in classes with no repercussions. We have kids cussing out their teachers, running at full speed around the building, climbing on top of cabinets and just punching the crap out of each other for no reason. These aren't even students with services. These are kids who have experienced a tremendous amount of trauma during COVID and lack any self-regulation strategies. To my admin's credit, they do come when we call them but they can't really do anything. Nobody has been suspended this year because that's a big no-no in schools these days as we don't want to "perpetuate the school to prison pipeline". Parents are either unresponsive or at a loss too. Since I know DCUM is crawling with advocates, YES we are trying to collect data and do FBAs, etc. but this used to be one or two kids a year in the entire building. Not a few in each class across the building. We aren't even fully staffed anymore due to resignations. It would be great to wave a magic wand and have staff appear but no such luck. We've been approved for critical staffing to provide 1:1 support for one student but nobody is applying for the position. So right now, all non-classroom staff can't do their jobs because they are either covering lunch/recess, subbing for classes (there aren't subs), helping deal with behavior issues, or serving as the 1:1
I'm so sick of it. We can't get through lessons when a few kids in each class are just occupying 99% of our time and energy. I feel terrible for our kids who desperately want and need to learn. It doesn't help that we're trying to pretend that the pandemic didn't happen and we're still trying to teach grade-level content to students who lost so much time.
MCPS is losing a lot of staff. Higher ups in central are catching on that the grass IS greener in other districts.

I am an elementary teacher and this is what I see, though without the admin support. When we call for help, even for extreme situations, we are reprimanded that we couldn’t handle things in the class. We can’t teach when kids are running around the class and pushing kids over. When there are kids fighting in the halls. We have already had to close bathrooms! And the curriculum is way too difficult for our students who are far below grade level.

This week I watched the Tuesday BOE work session. If you want your blood to boil, I suggest you watch it. Brenda Wolf wants all suspensions minimized and no disparity between races. She made clear that there may be no suspensions for disrespect. So the reason things are out of control is that principals have their hands tied. If there is an extreme behavior and the child is a minority (very likely in my school where we are 90% minority), they get in trouble. Interestingly, she mentioned that she was concerned with kids feeling safe after hate crimes, but dies not have any concerns with students feeling safe with extreme behaviors. And she definitely does not understand that teachers feeling safe is a key component to teacher retention.

All kids, regardless of race, deserve to have a safe learning environment. And all teachers, deserve to have a safe work environment. This seems like the topic the BOE should be discussing.

That is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I started having suicidal thoughts two weeks ago and I have 20 years experience. I am thinking to ask to be excluded from teaching any SEL since It triggers my own anxiety now when the kids are behaving so badly.

So sorry to hear this.

Please do take care of yourself. Know that the kids and the parents don’t want these SEL lessons either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is the current sad state of MCPS really the fault of the admins? Seems far more likely that central office, the superintendent and her team and the BOE are the sources of failure here and not the admins, since they don't get to make up the rules and just like teachers and educators, have to comply with whatever diarrhea trickles down from the top.

This is also the sense that I get. Admin is just stuck in the middle of all the nonsense and trying to (usually) do the best they can.

MCPS is a dysfunctional, corrupt school system that has lacked leadership for a long time. It’s a disaster and Covid made things even worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the current sad state of MCPS really the fault of the admins? Seems far more likely that central office, the superintendent and her team and the BOE are the sources of failure here and not the admins, since they don't get to make up the rules and just like teachers and educators, have to comply with whatever diarrhea trickles down from the top.

I am an elementary school teacher and I believe that the largest issue is the BOE and superintendent. Principals have their hands tied with what discipline they are allowed to give and in elementary school, it is pretty much zero. Schools have been told that restorative justice fixes everything even though all research shows that restorative justice is only a piece of the puzzle. When children have no consequences, they learn to take advantage of it. This is true at homes and in schools. So the kids behaviors are worse due to no consequences and even with the escalating behaviors, there is nothing teachers or principals can do. The school board and central office are in offices just looking at data and patting themselves on the back for the lowered rates of detention and suspension when it is all a lie.

What I find most interesting is that it is elementary schools that seem to be experiencing the biggest issues right now. With no security guards, no way to discipline students, and teachers and kids being stuck with the same dangerous children all day (compared to 47-minute periods), everyone is miserable. I can't even imagine what the current elementary schoolers will be like when they get to high school if the current discipline strategies continue.

Central Office staff and the BOE need to be in the classrooms and see the consequences of their decisions.

Thank you for this detail and perspective.

Do you know RJ got such a hold of MCPS and got implemented with seemingly no pushback? And now that we're here, how do we roll it back?

Politics.

Montgomery County is an intensely liberal, progressive county. Our leaders follow whatever trend is the most ‘progressive’ and stick by it no matter that the results.

We all voted for all of this.

[Anonymous]

I have yet to understand why the BOE and Superintendent haven’t used this time to TRULY reimagine education for the county and region. For instance, we know more time In school would be better. We know this from data of our own innovative schools and schools in other parts of the world. Yet instead of just reimagining the school day for entire county we are opening only two new innovative schools. Just change the school calendar and be done with it. Will folks get mad, yes. Will they get over it, yes. Will businesses and industries adjust, yes.

We know kids need more time outdoors and playing(especially post pandemic) yet don’t incorporate enough real world outdoor science in ES/MS. Nor do we host enough PE classes outdoors enough in ES. Any day that the temp is above freezing, you should drive past schools and see kids outside for PE and recess. Recess should be a period of the school day, not some random 15 minutes in the school day.

RJ has a place, but folks need to be fully trained to implement and facilitate. Further, RJ does not mean no consequences. It means finding alternative consequences that just suspending and expelling students. It’s means finding ways to instill lessons and grow kids mindset to make better decisions. It means creating empathy in the perpetrator of a wrong such that they understand the victims POV and understand how their actions affect others and others impression of them.

Want to create community, engagement, improve outcomes, then create meaningful after school programs and hire for them. Heck create an office in Central Office just for this. Working parents would love it as it reduces childcare cost and all students could benefit. Teachers would not be required to run these programs unless they want to participate and then would be paid just like anyone else. Sports, Science, Art, Leadership, homework help/tutoring could all be achieved.

MCPS needs to be clearly articulating to Teacher Education Programs the necessary skills to teach for the 21st century. Students in these programs need to be learning now Science of Reading, Restorative Justice. If teachers need to be able to assist dyslexia students then OG knowledge and experience should be noted as a preferred skill. If data analysis is important, then students obviously need some quantitative and statistical analysis classes. Part of the problem is that while teaching is difficult, obtaining an Education degree is not. A good number of the classes and skills offered in Masters of Education programs need to become standard for the Bachelor’s level.

Superintendents need to start announcing some bold initiatives about revamping US education and pushing them forward. Some of the needed things are even bold ideas they just require fortitude against naysayers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the current sad state of MCPS really the fault of the admins? Seems far more likely that central office, the superintendent and her team and the BOE are the sources of failure here and not the admins, since they don't get to make up the rules and just like teachers and educators, have to comply with whatever diarrhea trickles down from the top.

I am an elementary school teacher and I believe that the largest issue is the BOE and superintendent. Principals have their hands tied with what discipline they are allowed to give and in elementary school, it is pretty much zero. Schools have been told that restorative justice fixes everything even though all research shows that restorative justice is only a piece of the puzzle. When children have no consequences, they learn to take advantage of it. This is true at homes and in schools. So the kids behaviors are worse due to no consequences and even with the escalating behaviors, there is nothing teachers or principals can do. The school board and central office are in offices just looking at data and patting themselves on the back for the lowered rates of detention and suspension when it is all a lie.

What I find most interesting is that it is elementary schools that seem to be experiencing the biggest issues right now. With no security guards, no way to discipline students, and teachers and kids being stuck with the same dangerous children all day (compared to 47-minute periods), everyone is miserable. I can't even imagine what the current elementary schoolers will be like when they get to high school if the current discipline strategies continue.

Central Office staff and the BOE need to be in the classrooms and see the consequences of their decisions.

Thank you for this detail and perspective.

Do you know RJ got such a hold of MCPS and got implemented with seemingly no pushback? And now that we're here, how do we roll it back?

Politics.

Montgomery County is an intensely liberal, progressive county. Our leaders follow whatever trend is the most ‘progressive’ and stick by it no matter that the results.

We all voted for all of this.

Progressive means progress. If the results aren’t moving us forward then it’s not progressive it’s just a trend. New things can be tried, but they should also be stopped when over a reasonable time the quantitative and qualitative data show it’s not working. New initiatives also need proper implementation, support, and monitoring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Strap yourselves in teachers. I work in early intervention and the "pandemic babies' are coming your way soon. Kids who did not get identified as special needs, kids who are just starting to get identified (there is a backlog at Child Find), kids who spent their whole childhood in front of a TV and kids who were barely around other children or didn't get outside much. We are seeing a rise in disabilities in general. I'm worried.

Yes - PEP (Preschool Education Program, mostly for 3 and 4 year olds with IEPs) has more students than ever before, and the number keeps growing! Classrooms are growing larger because there are not enough teachers to add more classrooms.

It is a disaster that will keep on growing for years to come

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We know kids need more time outdoors and playing(especially post pandemic) yet don’t incorporate enough real world outdoor science in ES/MS. Nor do we host enough PE classes outdoors enough in ES. Any day that the temp is above freezing, you should drive past schools and see kids outside for PE and recess. Recess should be a period of the school day, not some random 15 minutes in the school day.

Our neighboring count, Howard, on recess: "Generally, students will be outside for recess when the temperature combined with the wind chill is not less than 20 degrees Fahrenheit or the heat index reading is less than 95. Children with certain health conditions may need special accommodations during extremely hot or cold weather."

What is the MCPS policy? I agree that kids need to be outdoor a lot more. And off cell phone and Chromebooks as much as possible, but it doesn't seem that is happening.