Picking up the pieces - how do we address problems were are facing in education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the solutions here just expect schools to fix society’s problems. Solutions:
-Pay teachers more to stem the immediate threat of lack of staff.
-Hold kids and parents accountable. Seriously, kids and parents have become master manipulators to avoid consequences.
-Get rid of SEL, most non-data driven initiatives. Most teachers don’t believe in them and view them as a distraction. Longitudinal studies are finally coming out that schools can’t teach this stuff well enough to have any impact.
-Get rid of 50% rules. Parents wonder why their kid isn’t doing work yet still passes classes.
-Put pressure on corporations and govt to increase salaries. The major driver of the educational issues is poverty.

What do you mean by holding parents accountable?

I would also like to know. Is PP talking about jailing parents? Taking the kids away from the parents?

DP. I read that to mean, suspending students when necessary (this is a signal to parents that things are serious) and also giving kids real grades instead of inflated ones, as well as giving kids failing grades when they do not earn passing grades. Students who do not do well in school are their parents problem, as well as society's - but right now we are trying hard to hide the problem in the hopes that it will go away. Parents should know where their kids stand instead of being shielded.

I can tell you've not worked in schools. There are SOME parents of children with significant academic/behavioral concerns who have their head in the clouds and just need that wake up call to take responsibility, but many, many (most?) parents of these students KNOW "where their kid stands"...they just don't have the wherewithal or desire to do much about it.

+1. What do you think a suspension does? It just gives a kid days off from school. Same with inflated grades. Schools give inflated grades to make themselves look good -- it isn't to make the student feel better about themselves. Even if you failed kids out of school, that kid will still continue to live. If they can't get a job, they will just turn to crime to get what they need. Your solutions to holding parents accountable don't do anything to improve the situation.

ideally suspensions lead to expulsions and permanently remove those kids from the classroom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smaller class sizes would go a long way to fixing many of the other issues.

Which requires more teachers who do not exist.

Teachers are out there; they just don’t want to work under the current conditions, one of which (at least in this area) is large class sizes. If you build it, they will come.

Large classes, while not ideal, is not the main problem in my opinion. Far too lenient grading and behavior policies are the main issue. The required retake policy, the minimum 50% policy (at least in my district) and the inability to remove or punish problem students. Its not fair to the teachers or the other students, and its not doing any favors for the student in question, either. If you solved all of that, large classes would be more workable, IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smaller class sizes would go a long way to fixing many of the other issues.

Which requires more teachers who do not exist.

Teachers are out there; they just don’t want to work under the current conditions, one of which (at least in this area) is large class sizes. If you build it, they will come.

Large classes, while not ideal, is not the main problem in my opinion. Far too lenient grading and behavior policies are the main issue. The required retake policy, the minimum 50% policy (at least in my district) and the inability to remove or punish problem students. Its not fair to the teachers or the other students, and its not doing any favors for the student in question, either. If you solved all of that, large classes would be more workable, IMO.

Are you a teacher? Why do retakes ruin education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the solutions here just expect schools to fix society’s problems. Solutions:
-Pay teachers more to stem the immediate threat of lack of staff.
-Hold kids and parents accountable. Seriously, kids and parents have become master manipulators to avoid consequences.
-Get rid of SEL, most non-data driven initiatives. Most teachers don’t believe in them and view them as a distraction. Longitudinal studies are finally coming out that schools can’t teach this stuff well enough to have any impact.
-Get rid of 50% rules. Parents wonder why their kid isn’t doing work yet still passes classes.
-Put pressure on corporations and govt to increase salaries. The major driver of the educational issues is poverty.

What do you mean by holding parents accountable?

I would also like to know. Is PP talking about jailing parents? Taking the kids away from the parents?

DP. I read that to mean, suspending students when necessary (this is a signal to parents that things are serious) and also giving kids real grades instead of inflated ones, as well as giving kids failing grades when they do not earn passing grades. Students who do not do well in school are their parents problem, as well as society's - but right now we are trying hard to hide the problem in the hopes that it will go away. Parents should know where their kids stand instead of being shielded.

I can tell you've not worked in schools. There are SOME parents of children with significant academic/behavioral concerns who have their head in the clouds and just need that wake up call to take responsibility, but many, many (most?) parents of these students KNOW "where their kid stands"...they just don't have the wherewithal or desire to do much about it.

+1. What do you think a suspension does? It just gives a kid days off from school. Same with inflated grades. Schools give inflated grades to make themselves look good -- it isn't to make the student feel better about themselves. Even if you failed kids out of school, that kid will still continue to live. If they can't get a job, they will just turn to crime to get what they need. Your solutions to holding parents accountable don't do anything to improve the situation.

ideally suspensions lead to expulsions and permanently remove those kids from the classroom

...to go where? I mean, they'll go to another classroom, somewhere else. This doesn't solve your problem of reducing behavioral issues. It conceivably just makes it some other teachers/kids problem.

[Anonymous]

1. provide reading/writing assistant for all K-3 classrooms (for selected classrooms in 4+)
2. provide phonics instruction for all kids (screen & teach upper grades as needed); cut out specials if needed to accomplish this
3. increase the amount of planning time during the day
4. reduce extraneous teacher responsibilities
5. reduce class size
6. provide better resources for teachers so they aren't constantly re-creating the wheel
7. increase teacher pay

Teachers don't need to do anything to "regain trust" of parents. Those parents need to get therapy or something for their irrational anger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. provide reading/writing assistant for all K-3 classrooms (for selected classrooms in 4+)
2. provide phonics instruction for all kids (screen & teach upper grades as needed); cut out specials if needed to accomplish this
3. increase the amount of planning time during the day
4. reduce extraneous teacher responsibilities
5. reduce class size
6. provide better resources for teachers so they aren't constantly re-creating the wheel
7. increase teacher pay

Teachers don't need to do anything to "regain trust" of parents. Those parents need to get therapy or something for their irrational anger.

+1 good lost and agree that the supposed trust issue is misplaced anger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the solutions here just expect schools to fix society’s problems. Solutions:
-Pay teachers more to stem the immediate threat of lack of staff.
-Hold kids and parents accountable. Seriously, kids and parents have become master manipulators to avoid consequences.
-Get rid of SEL, most non-data driven initiatives. Most teachers don’t believe in them and view them as a distraction. Longitudinal studies are finally coming out that schools can’t teach this stuff well enough to have any impact.
-Get rid of 50% rules. Parents wonder why their kid isn’t doing work yet still passes classes.
-Put pressure on corporations and govt to increase salaries. The major driver of the educational issues is poverty.

What do you mean by holding parents accountable?

I would also like to know. Is PP talking about jailing parents? Taking the kids away from the parents?

DP. I read that to mean, suspending students when necessary (this is a signal to parents that things are serious) and also giving kids real grades instead of inflated ones, as well as giving kids failing grades when they do not earn passing grades. Students who do not do well in school are their parents problem, as well as society's - but right now we are trying hard to hide the problem in the hopes that it will go away. Parents should know where their kids stand instead of being shielded.

I can tell you've not worked in schools. There are SOME parents of children with significant academic/behavioral concerns who have their head in the clouds and just need that wake up call to take responsibility, but many, many (most?) parents of these students KNOW "where their kid stands"...they just don't have the wherewithal or desire to do much about it.

+1. What do you think a suspension does? It just gives a kid days off from school. Same with inflated grades. Schools give inflated grades to make themselves look good -- it isn't to make the student feel better about themselves. Even if you failed kids out of school, that kid will still continue to live. If they can't get a job, they will just turn to crime to get what they need. Your solutions to holding parents accountable don't do anything to improve the situation.

ideally suspensions lead to expulsions and permanently remove those kids from the classroom

...to go where? I mean, they'll go to another classroom, somewhere else. This doesn't solve your problem of reducing behavioral issues. It conceivably just makes it some other teachers/kids problem.

Alternative schools or online only school where they can be separated from kids who are trying to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. provide reading/writing assistant for all K-3 classrooms (for selected classrooms in 4+)
2. provide phonics instruction for all kids (screen & teach upper grades as needed); cut out specials if needed to accomplish this
3. increase the amount of planning time during the day
4. reduce extraneous teacher responsibilities
5. reduce class size
6. provide better resources for teachers so they aren't constantly re-creating the wheel
7. increase teacher pay

Teachers don't need to do anything to "regain trust" of parents. Those parents need to get therapy or something for their irrational anger.

FCPS couldn't pass a 5% meals tax, what makes you think the budget to both build more schools and hire more teachers to reduce class sizes would ever be approved?

[Anonymous]

I don't trust schools any more. That means I don't trust that they will educate my child. Maybe I should never have trusted they would do that. But I also don't trust that they will stay open in the future and not repeat the damage that school closures did to my child and myself.

What does that mean for anything? Well, it matters to how I vote. It matters to whether I give money to PTO. It matters to whether I invest in anything related to the school beyond my own child's individual needs. It matters to whether I support vouchers and charters.

Does any of that matter? I suppose not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. provide reading/writing assistant for all K-3 classrooms (for selected classrooms in 4+)
2. provide phonics instruction for all kids (screen & teach upper grades as needed); cut out specials if needed to accomplish this
3. increase the amount of planning time during the day
4. reduce extraneous teacher responsibilities
5. reduce class size
6. provide better resources for teachers so they aren't constantly re-creating the wheel
7. increase teacher pay

Teachers don't need to do anything to "regain trust" of parents. Those parents need to get therapy or something for their irrational anger.

FCPS couldn't pass a 5% meals tax, what makes you think the budget to both build more schools and hire more teachers to reduce class sizes would ever be approved?

That's what should be done. Not necessarily what will be done.

Guess the people of Fairfax County should quantify just how much they value education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the solutions here just expect schools to fix society’s problems. Solutions:
-Pay teachers more to stem the immediate threat of lack of staff.
-Hold kids and parents accountable. Seriously, kids and parents have become master manipulators to avoid consequences.
-Get rid of SEL, most non-data driven initiatives. Most teachers don’t believe in them and view them as a distraction. Longitudinal studies are finally coming out that schools can’t teach this stuff well enough to have any impact.
-Get rid of 50% rules. Parents wonder why their kid isn’t doing work yet still passes classes.
-Put pressure on corporations and govt to increase salaries. The major driver of the educational issues is poverty.

What do you mean by holding parents accountable?

I would also like to know. Is PP talking about jailing parents? Taking the kids away from the parents?

DP. I read that to mean, suspending students when necessary (this is a signal to parents that things are serious) and also giving kids real grades instead of inflated ones, as well as giving kids failing grades when they do not earn passing grades. Students who do not do well in school are their parents problem, as well as society's - but right now we are trying hard to hide the problem in the hopes that it will go away. Parents should know where their kids stand instead of being shielded.

I can tell you've not worked in schools. There are SOME parents of children with significant academic/behavioral concerns who have their head in the clouds and just need that wake up call to take responsibility, but many, many (most?) parents of these students KNOW "where their kid stands"...they just don't have the wherewithal or desire to do much about it.

+1. What do you think a suspension does? It just gives a kid days off from school. Same with inflated grades. Schools give inflated grades to make themselves look good -- it isn't to make the student feel better about themselves. Even if you failed kids out of school, that kid will still continue to live. If they can't get a job, they will just turn to crime to get what they need. Your solutions to holding parents accountable don't do anything to improve the situation.

ideally suspensions lead to expulsions and permanently remove those kids from the classroom

...to go where? I mean, they'll go to another classroom, somewhere else. This doesn't solve your problem of reducing behavioral issues. It conceivably just makes it some other teachers/kids problem.

Alternative schools or online only school where they can be separated from kids who are trying to learn.

Alternative schools are schools, with other students and teachers. What do you mean?

Online only school requires a parent at home. When that's not available, kids are in schools. So again, not solving the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't trust schools any more. That means I don't trust that they will educate my child. Maybe I should never have trusted they would do that. But I also don't trust that they will stay open in the future and not repeat the damage that school closures did to my child and myself.

What does that mean for anything? Well, it matters to how I vote. It matters to whether I give money to PTO. It matters to whether I invest in anything related to the school beyond my own child's individual needs. It matters to whether I support vouchers and charters.

Does any of that matter? I suppose not.

It means that you didn't read the title of this thread or the OP, which was merely asking for solutions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't trust schools any more. That means I don't trust that they will educate my child. Maybe I should never have trusted they would do that. But I also don't trust that they will stay open in the future and not repeat the damage that school closures did to my child and myself.

What does that mean for anything? Well, it matters to how I vote. It matters to whether I give money to PTO. It matters to whether I invest in anything related to the school beyond my own child's individual needs. It matters to whether I support vouchers and charters.

Does any of that matter? I suppose not.

You should get therapy to address your trauma from the pandemic if you're still feeling this upset about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the solutions here just expect schools to fix society’s problems. Solutions:
-Pay teachers more to stem the immediate threat of lack of staff.
-Hold kids and parents accountable. Seriously, kids and parents have become master manipulators to avoid consequences.
-Get rid of SEL, most non-data driven initiatives. Most teachers don’t believe in them and view them as a distraction. Longitudinal studies are finally coming out that schools can’t teach this stuff well enough to have any impact.
-Get rid of 50% rules. Parents wonder why their kid isn’t doing work yet still passes classes.
-Put pressure on corporations and govt to increase salaries. The major driver of the educational issues is poverty.

What do you mean by holding parents accountable?

I would also like to know. Is PP talking about jailing parents? Taking the kids away from the parents?

DP. I read that to mean, suspending students when necessary (this is a signal to parents that things are serious) and also giving kids real grades instead of inflated ones, as well as giving kids failing grades when they do not earn passing grades. Students who do not do well in school are their parents problem, as well as society's - but right now we are trying hard to hide the problem in the hopes that it will go away. Parents should know where their kids stand instead of being shielded.

I can tell you've not worked in schools. There are SOME parents of children with significant academic/behavioral concerns who have their head in the clouds and just need that wake up call to take responsibility, but many, many (most?) parents of these students KNOW "where their kid stands"...they just don't have the wherewithal or desire to do much about it.

+1. What do you think a suspension does? It just gives a kid days off from school. Same with inflated grades. Schools give inflated grades to make themselves look good -- it isn't to make the student feel better about themselves. Even if you failed kids out of school, that kid will still continue to live. If they can't get a job, they will just turn to crime to get what they need. Your solutions to holding parents accountable don't do anything to improve the situation.

ideally suspensions lead to expulsions and permanently remove those kids from the classroom

...to go where? I mean, they'll go to another classroom, somewhere else. This doesn't solve your problem of reducing behavioral issues. It conceivably just makes it some other teachers/kids problem.

Alternative schools or online only school where they can be separated from kids who are trying to learn.

I mean, this is an argument for privates, charters, and homeschools. Kids who are trying to learn to select into those options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't trust schools any more. That means I don't trust that they will educate my child. Maybe I should never have trusted they would do that. But I also don't trust that they will stay open in the future and not repeat the damage that school closures did to my child and myself.

What does that mean for anything? Well, it matters to how I vote. It matters to whether I give money to PTO. It matters to whether I invest in anything related to the school beyond my own child's individual needs. It matters to whether I support vouchers and charters.

Does any of that matter? I suppose not.

It means that you didn't read the title of this thread or the OP, which was merely asking for solutions

Well, the solution is just that I only invest in my child's education. That's what a number of people have already expressed above.

It doesn't repair education overall. But if the refrain is constantly "this problem that many people have expressed doesn't actually exist", then I don't see there is any reason to keep trying.