All these smart kids are getting rejected across the board

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents of seniors at our school are using words like bloodbath to describe the seniors acceptances. Kids who worked hard and did everything they were supposed to are not getting in to top 20-50 schools. Too many white, UMC families who saved and can pay full price are not getting in whereas 10 years ago they would have. It's partly due to test-optional and partly due to more diversity (socio-economic and racial) being sought after at top schools.

No, it’s due to everyone “shooting their shot” at the same colleges. Stop blaming testing and diversity. Colleges have been looking for diverse classes for decades. It’s not new.

What’s new is clear. The applications are exploding at top schools and falling at the rest. The reason is probably layered, from subtle things like adults belittling good options that aren’t impressive (my gosh, even JMU gets ripped here) to grade inflation making parents think their middle of the pack student is at the top of the class…again there are many reasons.

Stop blaming stupid stuff that makes you made and use reason.

I'll start by saying I don't have a problem with what's going on currently in admissions.

I agree with you that everyone is too focuses on the same set of colleges. BUT, I do think that with COVID, test optional, and recent cultural changes that some schools have truly expanded their horizons on how they evaluate candidates. I think in the past that they were more skewed towards test scores aligning with grades and adding in some ECs. Now without test scores, I think they are genuinely looking at other parts of the application in a new way.. It could also be that they are simply recognizing that they have so many applicants who were "qualified" that they should really stop just skewing admissions to those with the highest GPA/test stats and put increased thought into what each applicant might bring to campus (they were doing this before but I think with a smaller pool of high stats kids).

I personally think this is a good thing and will create all kinds of diversity (including the type of white UMC kids they accept). It also means the tip top gpa/test stat kids may not have the same advantages they had before and definitely need to cast a wider net.

But to say that test optional and diversity didn't change anything isn't quite right.

I think it is hard for a student who got better grades and better test scores to see a fellow classmate with worse everything gaining acceptance because they are URM. I have heard it was a really bad year for many MC and UMC white and Asian students.

Wow! Perhaps you don't know the whole story for the URM as a whole person? Test scores and grades are not everything. From your privileged position, you apparently do not recognize that the URM might be heading home after school to help take care of siblings or a grandparent, may not have time to go to tutoring or participate in 3 Varsity level sports, etc. They might have to work a job to help support the family; they might not be growing up in a home where the parents can help with school work, or with parents who went to college. If your parents didn't attend college, you often grow up with a very different perspective on life than someone whose parents both have Graduate degrees. Maybe they have a learning disability and their family doesn't have the financial resources to provide services that many privileged kids would get (I have lived this; paid $250-300/week for 4+ years to get my own kid on track once I paid for a full neuropsychological evaluation to diagnose the issues. I am so grateful that we as a family could afford to provide this for our kid). You simply don't know their life outside of school.

It really is time for the privileged to start recognizing the great advantages they have over many just from growing up privileged.

Stop the rescue fantasy. Most of the URM they take are coming from upper middle class families. Not all URM are poor.

The ones benefiting most are UMC blacks and Hispanics.

This is exactly what I’ve seen in our social circle. Our kids were raised in incredibly similar families, dads had the same kind of jobs, same kinds of degrees, same six figure incomes, same type of high schools, same rigor and test scores, moms college-educated. 2 half Mexican kids to Yale, 2 black kids to Harvard, our white kids rejected from everything with less than a 40% acceptance rate. The program is just not as noble as it seems.

And why shouldn’t Harvard and Yale pick kids of color over your white kids? Do you think there are no white kids at Harvard? Your white kids didn’t make the cut, sorry. Join the rest of us over here. It will be okay, I promise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents of seniors at our school are using words like bloodbath to describe the seniors acceptances. Kids who worked hard and did everything they were supposed to are not getting in to top 20-50 schools. Too many white, UMC families who saved and can pay full price are not getting in whereas 10 years ago they would have. It's partly due to test-optional and partly due to more diversity (socio-economic and racial) being sought after at top schools.

No, it’s due to everyone “shooting their shot” at the same colleges. Stop blaming testing and diversity. Colleges have been looking for diverse classes for decades. It’s not new.

What’s new is clear. The applications are exploding at top schools and falling at the rest. The reason is probably layered, from subtle things like adults belittling good options that aren’t impressive (my gosh, even JMU gets ripped here) to grade inflation making parents think their middle of the pack student is at the top of the class…again there are many reasons.

Stop blaming stupid stuff that makes you made and use reason.

I'll start by saying I don't have a problem with what's going on currently in admissions.

I agree with you that everyone is too focuses on the same set of colleges. BUT, I do think that with COVID, test optional, and recent cultural changes that some schools have truly expanded their horizons on how they evaluate candidates. I think in the past that they were more skewed towards test scores aligning with grades and adding in some ECs. Now without test scores, I think they are genuinely looking at other parts of the application in a new way.. It could also be that they are simply recognizing that they have so many applicants who were "qualified" that they should really stop just skewing admissions to those with the highest GPA/test stats and put increased thought into what each applicant might bring to campus (they were doing this before but I think with a smaller pool of high stats kids).

I personally think this is a good thing and will create all kinds of diversity (including the type of white UMC kids they accept). It also means the tip top gpa/test stat kids may not have the same advantages they had before and definitely need to cast a wider net.

But to say that test optional and diversity didn't change anything isn't quite right.

I think it is hard for a student who got better grades and better test scores to see a fellow classmate with worse everything gaining acceptance because they are URM. I have heard it was a really bad year for many MC and UMC white and Asian students.

Wow! Perhaps you don't know the whole story for the URM as a whole person? Test scores and grades are not everything. From your privileged position, you apparently do not recognize that the URM might be heading home after school to help take care of siblings or a grandparent, may not have time to go to tutoring or participate in 3 Varsity level sports, etc. They might have to work a job to help support the family; they might not be growing up in a home where the parents can help with school work, or with parents who went to college. If your parents didn't attend college, you often grow up with a very different perspective on life than someone whose parents both have Graduate degrees. Maybe they have a learning disability and their family doesn't have the financial resources to provide services that many privileged kids would get (I have lived this; paid $250-300/week for 4+ years to get my own kid on track once I paid for a full neuropsychological evaluation to diagnose the issues. I am so grateful that we as a family could afford to provide this for our kid). You simply don't know their life outside of school.

It really is time for the privileged to start recognizing the great advantages they have over many just from growing up privileged.

Stop the rescue fantasy. Most of the URM they take are coming from upper middle class families. Not all URM are poor.

The ones benefiting most are UMC blacks and Hispanics.

This is exactly what I’ve seen in our social circle. Our kids were raised in incredibly similar families, dads had the same kind of jobs, same kinds of degrees, same six figure incomes, same type of high schools, same rigor and test scores, moms college-educated. 2 half Mexican kids to Yale, 2 black kids to Harvard, our white kids rejected from everything with less than a 40% acceptance rate. The program is just not as noble as it seems.

The top ivy admits seem to mostly be African Americans. I’m sure the racial mix at these top schools will be different for this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am hearing about these kids who have near perfect grades, super high SAT scores and strong extracurricular activities and they are getting rejected across the board. The parents are well educated professionals. The kids are getting rejected from their parents’ alma maters.

I feel like this same kids would be ivy bound 20-30 years ago.

Colleges know that A's are giving out like water in schools due to helicopter parenting. A 4.0 student is really a equal to a 3.0 gpa from 20 years ago. Super high SAT scores are made possible through the internet cheat sheets and 'prep' courses that teach to the test, so SAT is not reliable and many colleges are dropping the SAT. If you want your kids to get into a school just donate some money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am hearing about these kids who have near perfect grades, super high SAT scores and strong extracurricular activities and they are getting rejected across the board. The parents are well educated professionals. The kids are getting rejected from their parents’ alma maters.

I feel like this same kids would be ivy bound 20-30 years ago.

Colleges know that A's are giving out like water in schools due to helicopter parenting. A 4.0 student is really a equal to a 3.0 gpa from 20 years ago. Super high SAT scores are made possible through the internet cheat sheets and 'prep' courses that teach to the test, so SAT is not reliable and many colleges are dropping the SAT. If you want your kids to get into a school just donate some money.

What the hell is an internet cheat sheet? Studying and preparing is not cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents of seniors at our school are using words like bloodbath to describe the seniors acceptances. Kids who worked hard and did everything they were supposed to are not getting in to top 20-50 schools. Too many white, UMC families who saved and can pay full price are not getting in whereas 10 years ago they would have. It's partly due to test-optional and partly due to more diversity (socio-economic and racial) being sought after at top schools.

No, it’s due to everyone “shooting their shot” at the same colleges. Stop blaming testing and diversity. Colleges have been looking for diverse classes for decades. It’s not new.

What’s new is clear. The applications are exploding at top schools and falling at the rest. The reason is probably layered, from subtle things like adults belittling good options that aren’t impressive (my gosh, even JMU gets ripped here) to grade inflation making parents think their middle of the pack student is at the top of the class…again there are many reasons.

Stop blaming stupid stuff that makes you made and use reason.

I'll start by saying I don't have a problem with what's going on currently in admissions.

I agree with you that everyone is too focuses on the same set of colleges. BUT, I do think that with COVID, test optional, and recent cultural changes that some schools have truly expanded their horizons on how they evaluate candidates. I think in the past that they were more skewed towards test scores aligning with grades and adding in some ECs. Now without test scores, I think they are genuinely looking at other parts of the application in a new way.. It could also be that they are simply recognizing that they have so many applicants who were "qualified" that they should really stop just skewing admissions to those with the highest GPA/test stats and put increased thought into what each applicant might bring to campus (they were doing this before but I think with a smaller pool of high stats kids).

I personally think this is a good thing and will create all kinds of diversity (including the type of white UMC kids they accept). It also means the tip top gpa/test stat kids may not have the same advantages they had before and definitely need to cast a wider net.

But to say that test optional and diversity didn't change anything isn't quite right.

I think it is hard for a student who got better grades and better test scores to see a fellow classmate with worse everything gaining acceptance because they are URM. I have heard it was a really bad year for many MC and UMC white and Asian students.

Wow! Perhaps you don't know the whole story for the URM as a whole person? Test scores and grades are not everything. From your privileged position, you apparently do not recognize that the URM might be heading home after school to help take care of siblings or a grandparent, may not have time to go to tutoring or participate in 3 Varsity level sports, etc. They might have to work a job to help support the family; they might not be growing up in a home where the parents can help with school work, or with parents who went to college. If your parents didn't attend college, you often grow up with a very different perspective on life than someone whose parents both have Graduate degrees. Maybe they have a learning disability and their family doesn't have the financial resources to provide services that many privileged kids would get (I have lived this; paid $250-300/week for 4+ years to get my own kid on track once I paid for a full neuropsychological evaluation to diagnose the issues. I am so grateful that we as a family could afford to provide this for our kid). You simply don't know their life outside of school.

It really is time for the privileged to start recognizing the great advantages they have over many just from growing up privileged.

Stop the rescue fantasy. Most of the URM they take are coming from upper middle class families. Not all URM are poor.

The ones benefiting most are UMC blacks and Hispanics.

This is exactly what I’ve seen in our social circle. Our kids were raised in incredibly similar families, dads had the same kind of jobs, same kinds of degrees, same six figure incomes, same type of high schools, same rigor and test scores, moms college-educated. 2 half Mexican kids to Yale, 2 black kids to Harvard, our white kids rejected from everything with less than a 40% acceptance rate. The program is just not as noble as it seems.

And why shouldn’t Harvard and Yale pick kids of color over your white kids? Do you think there are no white kids at Harvard? Your white kids didn’t make the cut, sorry. Join the rest of us over here. It will be okay, I promise.

Way to miss the point.
I never thought my kids had a chance at Harvard or Yale. Neither did they.
But this fantasy that the URM hook lifts kids from poverty is mostly fantasy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am hearing about these kids who have near perfect grades, super high SAT scores and strong extracurricular activities and they are getting rejected across the board. The parents are well educated professionals. The kids are getting rejected from their parents’ alma maters.

I feel like this same kids would be ivy bound 20-30 years ago.

Colleges know that A's are giving out like water in schools due to helicopter parenting. A 4.0 student is really a equal to a 3.0 gpa from 20 years ago. Super high SAT scores are made possible through the internet cheat sheets and 'prep' courses that teach to the test, so SAT is not reliable and many colleges are dropping the SAT. If you want your kids to get into a school just donate some money.

What high school do your kids go to? Because they definitely don’t hand out As at ours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am hearing about these kids who have near perfect grades, super high SAT scores and strong extracurricular activities and they are getting rejected across the board. The parents are well educated professionals. The kids are getting rejected from their parents’ alma maters.

I feel like this same kids would be ivy bound 20-30 years ago.

Colleges know that A's are giving out like water in schools due to helicopter parenting. A 4.0 student is really a equal to a 3.0 gpa from 20 years ago. Super high SAT scores are made possible through the internet cheat sheets and 'prep' courses that teach to the test, so SAT is not reliable and many colleges are dropping the SAT. If you want your kids to get into a school just donate some money.

With certifications, ocw, corporate training, portfolios, etc... have you guys considered the fact that if graduates aren't as good as those from coding (or other) academies the first three years of work, companies notice? If Ivy loan candidates normalize copious amounts of debt, they dig holes for themselves later in life too. If guys at elite schools keep getting divorced because gold-diggers married them for status and not love, won't second-generation college grads adjust their dating after seeing what happened to their fathers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents of seniors at our school are using words like bloodbath to describe the seniors acceptances. Kids who worked hard and did everything they were supposed to are not getting in to top 20-50 schools. Too many white, UMC families who saved and can pay full price are not getting in whereas 10 years ago they would have. It's partly due to test-optional and partly due to more diversity (socio-economic and racial) being sought after at top schools.

No, it’s due to everyone “shooting their shot” at the same colleges. Stop blaming testing and diversity. Colleges have been looking for diverse classes for decades. It’s not new.

What’s new is clear. The applications are exploding at top schools and falling at the rest. The reason is probably layered, from subtle things like adults belittling good options that aren’t impressive (my gosh, even JMU gets ripped here) to grade inflation making parents think their middle of the pack student is at the top of the class…again there are many reasons.

Stop blaming stupid stuff that makes you made and use reason.

I'll start by saying I don't have a problem with what's going on currently in admissions.

I agree with you that everyone is too focuses on the same set of colleges. BUT, I do think that with COVID, test optional, and recent cultural changes that some schools have truly expanded their horizons on how they evaluate candidates. I think in the past that they were more skewed towards test scores aligning with grades and adding in some ECs. Now without test scores, I think they are genuinely looking at other parts of the application in a new way.. It could also be that they are simply recognizing that they have so many applicants who were "qualified" that they should really stop just skewing admissions to those with the highest GPA/test stats and put increased thought into what each applicant might bring to campus (they were doing this before but I think with a smaller pool of high stats kids).

I personally think this is a good thing and will create all kinds of diversity (including the type of white UMC kids they accept). It also means the tip top gpa/test stat kids may not have the same advantages they had before and definitely need to cast a wider net.

But to say that test optional and diversity didn't change anything isn't quite right.

I think it is hard for a student who got better grades and better test scores to see a fellow classmate with worse everything gaining acceptance because they are URM. I have heard it was a really bad year for many MC and UMC white and Asian students.

Wow! Perhaps you don't know the whole story for the URM as a whole person? Test scores and grades are not everything. From your privileged position, you apparently do not recognize that the URM might be heading home after school to help take care of siblings or a grandparent, may not have time to go to tutoring or participate in 3 Varsity level sports, etc. They might have to work a job to help support the family; they might not be growing up in a home where the parents can help with school work, or with parents who went to college. If your parents didn't attend college, you often grow up with a very different perspective on life than someone whose parents both have Graduate degrees. Maybe they have a learning disability and their family doesn't have the financial resources to provide services that many privileged kids would get (I have lived this; paid $250-300/week for 4+ years to get my own kid on track once I paid for a full neuropsychological evaluation to diagnose the issues. I am so grateful that we as a family could afford to provide this for our kid). You simply don't know their life outside of school.

It really is time for the privileged to start recognizing the great advantages they have over many just from growing up privileged.

Stop the rescue fantasy. Most of the URM they take are coming from upper middle class families. Not all URM are poor.

The ones benefiting most are UMC blacks and Hispanics.

This is exactly what I’ve seen in our social circle. Our kids were raised in incredibly similar families, dads had the same kind of jobs, same kinds of degrees, same six figure incomes, same type of high schools, same rigor and test scores, moms college-educated. 2 half Mexican kids to Yale, 2 black kids to Harvard, our white kids rejected from everything with less than a 40% acceptance rate. The program is just not as noble as it seems.

The top ivy admits seem to mostly be African Americans. I’m sure the racial mix at these top schools will be different for this year.

Black students at Harvard are a whole 15% of the class and that is actually slightly down from the year before.
Harvard class of 2026

15.5% African American or Black
12.6% Latinx

Harvard class of 2025

15.9% African American or Black
12.5% Latinx

Care to revise your statement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP--if your kids are in Pre-school, elementary, it will probably be very different---I think much less competition.

It depends. If Trumpism wins out and international students, other than Saudis and Russians can't or won't come to the US, then sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A typical scenario:
- I have 4.5 GPAs and 10 AP courses:  there are ten thousands Asian kids with the same stat, you are not special,
- I have 1550+ on the SAT:  there are ten thousands Asian kids with the same stat, you are not special
- I play level 10 piano and first chair in violin:  there are thousands Asian kidsthat you do, you are not special
- I play high school sport and am a member of the varsity team:  there are thousands Asian kids that do what you do, you are not special
- I volunteer after school:  there are thousands Asian kids that do what you do, you are not special

- I am a rapper, tiktok and a youtube star with millions of followers:  Now you're different from other Asian kids.    Ivies will admit you.

There are 10s of thousands of kids, period. Being Asian has nothing to do with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am hearing about these kids who have near perfect grades, super high SAT scores and strong extracurricular activities and they are getting rejected across the board. The parents are well educated professionals. The kids are getting rejected from their parents’ alma maters.

I feel like this same kids would be ivy bound 20-30 years ago.

Colleges know that A's are giving out like water in schools due to helicopter parenting. A 4.0 student is really a equal to a 3.0 gpa from 20 years ago. Super high SAT scores are made possible through the internet cheat sheets and 'prep' courses that teach to the test, so SAT is not reliable and many colleges are dropping the SAT. If you want your kids to get into a school just donate some money.

No. One of my own scored really high without attending any center or what not. We were afraid he won’t as he is not doing what everyone else is doing. Some people are naturally better test takers and if they are good students, scoring high doesn’t require external help.

[Anonymous]

Donating money isn’t that easy and requires significant donations, otherwise we wouldn’t have USC celebrity drama bribing with hundred thousand or so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am hearing about these kids who have near perfect grades, super high SAT scores and strong extracurricular activities and they are getting rejected across the board. The parents are well educated professionals. The kids are getting rejected from their parents’ alma maters.

I feel like this same kids would be ivy bound 20-30 years ago.

Colleges know that A's are giving out like water in schools due to helicopter parenting. A 4.0 student is really a equal to a 3.0 gpa from 20 years ago. Super high SAT scores are made possible through the internet cheat sheets and 'prep' courses that teach to the test, so SAT is not reliable and many colleges are dropping the SAT. If you want your kids to get into a school just donate some money.

No. One of my own scored really high without attending any center or what not. We were afraid he won’t as he is not doing what everyone else is doing. Some people are naturally better test takers and if they are good students, scoring high doesn’t require external help.

So you saved yourselves the test prep $$, but admissions folks know that high scores can be coached. While these tests were supposed to level the playing field, affluent folks always find a way to maximize, of course. Same with the doctor shopping to get LD diagnoses.

[Anonymous]

Bar is set higher for Asian kids and system is biased against them. That being said, parents do turn them into formula applicants by pushing for same things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am hearing about these kids who have near perfect grades, super high SAT scores and strong extracurricular activities and they are getting rejected across the board. The parents are well educated professionals. The kids are getting rejected from their parents’ alma maters.

I feel like this same kids would be ivy bound 20-30 years ago.

Colleges know that A's are giving out like water in schools due to helicopter parenting. A 4.0 student is really a equal to a 3.0 gpa from 20 years ago. Super high SAT scores are made possible through the internet cheat sheets and 'prep' courses that teach to the test, so SAT is not reliable and many colleges are dropping the SAT. If you want your kids to get into a school just donate some money.

No. One of my own scored really high without attending any center or what not. We were afraid he won’t as he is not doing what everyone else is doing. Some people are naturally better test takers and if they are good students, scoring high doesn’t require external help.

So you saved yourselves the test prep $$, but admissions folks know that high scores can be coached. While these tests were supposed to level the playing field, affluent folks always find a way to maximize, of course. Same with the doctor shopping to get LD diagnoses.

I know. Quite a few of his affluent friends had extra time for testing. Some claiming learning disabilities, others concussions and what not.