Is it really that hard to get into college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

I'm so sorry for them. That's terrible. There aren't enough spots for these kids. Some of them will have to find another path. Ivy/Ivy+ or bust is a recipe for heartbreak for most kids.

And a really stupid recipe at that. Once you get your first job (other than in a few fields---high level investing/PE is one area) it really does not matter where you went. It's what you did in college that matters, and what you do at the job. My first kid went to at T100 school, and the program was rigorous, with the honor program being even more rigorous for those who are up to that challenge (not my kid). all of my DC's friends are gainfully employed or onto graduate school (that's over 25 students). Some in at top graduate schools and medical schools. You do not have to attend top 20 schools to be successful.

This once you get your first job nonsense has to go. Going to Harvard or Yale or Princeton stays with you and matters even if you work in the DPW picking up trash --- will matter when you go for supervisor and later head of department. Does it determine how you will do in life -- of course not. Tones of colleges will work. But just as it is not Harvard or bustr please do not believe that it no longer matters after first job.

Really, if I'm working as a trash collector, I will get further ahead if I went to Harvard? What are you smoking? In your scenario I've graduated from Harvard and working as a trash collector actually picking up trash and use my Harvard degree to move up the supervisor ladder and to dept head of trash collection? So extremely glad I graduated from Harvard to do that. Somehow I think there are more important issues---such as why the hell did I graduate from an Ivy League school yet I'm working as a trash collector(something that barely requires a HS degree).


I've lived life and nobody has ever asked where I attended college after my first job. Hell, for my first real job nobody asked either, but that was because it was the direct result of 2 summer internships with the same dept, so they knew my work (and I guess where I had attended college) and happily were waiting to hire me full time. Switched jobs 2 years later and what mattered was my references from my first job, not where I attended college. Never once was I asked about college or where I went in my 3 interviews for the 2nd job. So while it might have still been on my resume at only 2 years out of grad School, nobody asked/discussed it. Instead they discussed my qualifications and work experience as a normal person would expect to happen. So yes had I attended Harvard and someone interviewing me had gone to Harvard, perhaps it might have swayed them a bit to liking me over someone else. But ultimately, I'd hope a Harvard educated person would not just hire me cause I also have a Harvard degree---I'd hope they could look at my real qualifications and make a decision based on that.

Only way attending Harvard/Y/P matters is if I need one of my buddies to call a future boss and put in a good word. Same for all jobs after the 2nd job. Nobody cared where I attended college. What matters is how I performed at my previous jobs and my references.

Yes, your connections at HYP/etc will give you a network of people willing to help you, so will many other colleges. Penn State has a large network, so does Purdue, UMich, VATech, UVA, etc. Plenty of highly successful people graduate from non-ivy/T20 schools and go on to do great things.

So you go on thinking your Harvard degree matters to most people once you are over 25 yo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you only apply to T50 schools, Ivies, etc and think that your parents’ experience with their college admissions in the 80s, 90s or 2000s has any relevance to your own, then yes, it really is that hard.

If you cast a wide net, apply ED to your first choice if you can (and you only get one shot at it, so don’t make it HYSP if you aren’t a top 1/2% student with massive other qualifying features) and apply to LOTS of schools with several true safeties, then no, it’s not.

One guess which option most of DCUM takes.

lol. There are gigantic state schools in the top 50. Nobody UMC (read no financial aid need, paying cash) with strong stats is getting rejected from #49 Ohio State for goodness sake. You people are just rambling and theatrical busybodies.

This is just an issue for a certain type of insane social climbers in places like DC. We have good friends in Cleveland, both lawyers, whose oldest daughter just got accepted to Ohio State, and everyone involved is happy. It was essentially a sure thing for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming you're not a troll, yes, it is hard to get into highly rejective colleges. Especially if you are from a competitive area where your kid is competing against 30 other high stats kids from their class.

My kid with competitive (99%) stats and ECs is going to a T50 school. A very good school, but not what we had expected some 4 years ago at the start of high school. Certainly did not expect the rejections from the competitive colleges that spouse and I went to. Nor some of the schools we might once have considered a safety school.

So it's not that your kids are screwed. They'll get into a good college, and chances are it's even going to be a great college. Just don't expect the T10 colleges to be matches.

Also if your kids are better at networking and doing the sorts of things that bring attention to themselves, like emailing school representatives, then that helps.

I am not a troll. Our kids are at a well regarded public school. They have so many smart friends that sound identical to one another on paper. One kid may run track and another May play tennis but none are THAT good to be an athletic recruit.

Hope this is not a completely stupid question but do hobbies help? My kids love to ski, boat and fish. They will never be on a ski team but my son has been skiing on black since he was 9. We also go on tons of fishing trips.

Fishing, skiing and boating won’t matter to top schools unless you win a national competitive award with public recognition in them. Many applicants are captains of varsity teams and at the top tiers, even they’re a dime a dozen.

Hobbies may help at match or safety schools to give a picture of a more well-rounded applicant, maybe. More important are SAT scores (so use paid prep if you can afford it and your kid needs it), volunteer and service hours (helpful if they can be targeted toward the intended field of study), where you live (it helps to come from an underrepresented state to the school, as schools do keep track of that and often publish the geographical breakdown in future admissions materials) and, the biggest factor of all — luck, which is why the “more applications than you think you need” advice is so important.

Unless the student is a recruited athlete playing 4+ years of a sport and even being captain equates to just another regular EC. Actually, that is not correct. It equates to less as one of the most common ECs by far is sport participation.

+1
this is correct unfortunately

[Anonymous]

DH and I attended T5/T10 schools. And our kids are better qualified than we were when we applied but we have accepted that stellar grades but not valedictorian, strong test scores (but not NMSF), summer research/jobs/college program/volunteering, winning regional competitions, playing a HS sport (but not D1 or D3 worthy), being a legacy, and applying ED will still not be enough. It is a shift in thinking but we will be happy if our kids are accepted to any college that has a strong alumni base and prepares them well for the workforce. Attendance at a prestigious school is great plus but it’s just not realistic anymore.

[Anonymous]

Agree with so much that has been said here.
For what it's worth, my advice would be:

-do as well as they can in their classes
-take courses that challenge them - rigor is important but to whatever level is appropriate for them.
-while standardized tests might someday go away - I don't think so - do test prep. Discover if your child is more comfortable with the SAT or ACT - and prep to do as well as they can.
-do service work that they find meaningful, not that ticks a box,
-think deep, not wide. Service work - and definitely hobbies - that help tell a story of who this student is, will resonate with college admissions. As well as making the world a better place!
Not many kids are into fishing - that's a very cool potential area to tell your child's story. Why do they like it, what does it mean to them - this can be the subject of the main essay or one of several supplemental essays they will have to write.
Are there ways to craft some service work around his/her hobbies? A way to give back through fishing or skiing? I'll bet there is something cool there. That is far more interesting and impactful than just doing the service work that is popular in your area, that so many kids do.
Thinking about all of this in middle school is perfect. Don't wait until high school.

Something we learned in this process is that just because your child's GPA and test scores, and transcript rigor, seem to be a comfortable fit with a college - because they receive so many applications - schools like that (not talking top top here) are a "reach" for everyone. It's all about admissions acceptance rates.

Start visiting campuses informally when you are in the vicinity. Over time it will help your child rule out basics like big/small, urban/rural, small liberal arts vs huge state flagship. Don't believe the marketing materials they will flood you with. Do some research on paying for college. It can be fun visiting campuses. Be sure to someday compile a brutally realistic college list, with an equal mix of reach, target, and safety. Be realistic about what a target school means. It's not Villanova for anyone right now, for instance. Acceptance rates rule.

Stories you hear from this and last year about how difficult the process was, and how things have changed, are true. But it is also true that there are so many great schools out there and your child will be happy wherever they find their fit - and many schools will fit that bill.

Your child will work hard in high school. But they deserve to be happy during that time - it's essential that they are. They should do their best. But they should balance as much as possible.
Do not listen to parents who stress you out. Many have great advice though too. If you balance that, and remain calm and happy, it will mean the world to your child. Kids are very aware that so many of us whether we admit it or not, are competitive with other parents on this issue. Kids on the other hand are very supportive of one another. We can be their safe happy place, the person who says you are good enough right now the way you are, and you will have a happy future no matter what.

Well I guess I sermonized here. Sorry!
There are many positive and informative tidbits on this site, and a lot of great people.
Rooting for and your child.
All the best to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

I'm so sorry for them. That's terrible. There aren't enough spots for these kids. Some of them will have to find another path. Ivy/Ivy+ or bust is a recipe for heartbreak for most kids.

And a really stupid recipe at that. Once you get your first job (other than in a few fields---high level investing/PE is one area) it really does not matter where you went. It's what you did in college that matters, and what you do at the job. My first kid went to at T100 school, and the program was rigorous, with the honor program being even more rigorous for those who are up to that challenge (not my kid). all of my DC's friends are gainfully employed or onto graduate school (that's over 25 students). Some in at top graduate schools and medical schools. You do not have to attend top 20 schools to be successful.

This once you get your first job nonsense has to go. Going to Harvard or Yale or Princeton stays with you and matters even if you work in the DPW picking up trash --- will matter when you go for supervisor and later head of department. Does it determine how you will do in life -- of course not. Tones of colleges will work. But just as it is not Harvard or bustr please do not believe that it no longer matters after first job.

Really, if I'm working as a trash collector, I will get further ahead if I went to Harvard? What are you smoking? In your scenario I've graduated from Harvard and working as a trash collector actually picking up trash and use my Harvard degree to move up the supervisor ladder and to dept head of trash collection? So extremely glad I graduated from Harvard to do that. Somehow I think there are more important issues---such as why the hell did I graduate from an Ivy League school yet I'm working as a trash collector(something that barely requires a HS degree).


I've lived life and nobody has ever asked where I attended college after my first job. Hell, for my first real job nobody asked either, but that was because it was the direct result of 2 summer internships with the same dept, so they knew my work (and I guess where I had attended college) and happily were waiting to hire me full time. Switched jobs 2 years later and what mattered was my references from my first job, not where I attended college. Never once was I asked about college or where I went in my 3 interviews for the 2nd job. So while it might have still been on my resume at only 2 years out of grad School, nobody asked/discussed it. Instead they discussed my qualifications and work experience as a normal person would expect to happen. So yes had I attended Harvard and someone interviewing me had gone to Harvard, perhaps it might have swayed them a bit to liking me over someone else. But ultimately, I'd hope a Harvard educated person would not just hire me cause I also have a Harvard degree---I'd hope they could look at my real qualifications and make a decision based on that.

Only way attending Harvard/Y/P matters is if I need one of my buddies to call a future boss and put in a good word. Same for all jobs after the 2nd job. Nobody cared where I attended college. What matters is how I performed at my previous jobs and my references.

Yes, your connections at HYP/etc will give you a network of people willing to help you, so will many other colleges. Penn State has a large network, so does Purdue, UMich, VATech, UVA, etc. Plenty of highly successful people graduate from non-ivy/T20 schools and go on to do great things.

So you go on thinking your Harvard degree matters to most people once you are over 25 yo.

The thing is, PP, you don't mention what your job is. And it doesn't sound like you went to or intend to go to a strong graduate program. I work in the arts and I agree, nobody cares where anybody went to college. But for people who want to go into more competitive fields, where one's degree came from does matter. Your argument is very effective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But what does it cost to attend Ohio State OOS? $34K just on tuition. Add in fees and room and board, and you're probably over $50K/year. Who wants to pay that for Ohio State? People would rather pay that for Mt. Holyoke or Loyola Chicago after merit aid.

Maybe SOME people, but not everyone. Maybe understand what a place like Ohio State has to offer and what someone who finishes at the top of the class went through to get there. Add in the surrounding college experience and it is great for anyone who can do well there. I went to a different Big10 school (ie I hate OSU) and wouldn't trade my experience for the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

I'm so sorry for them. That's terrible. There aren't enough spots for these kids. Some of them will have to find another path. Ivy/Ivy+ or bust is a recipe for heartbreak for most kids.

And a really stupid recipe at that. Once you get your first job (other than in a few fields---high level investing/PE is one area) it really does not matter where you went. It's what you did in college that matters, and what you do at the job. My first kid went to at T100 school, and the program was rigorous, with the honor program being even more rigorous for those who are up to that challenge (not my kid). all of my DC's friends are gainfully employed or onto graduate school (that's over 25 students). Some in at top graduate schools and medical schools. You do not have to attend top 20 schools to be successful.

This once you get your first job nonsense has to go. Going to Harvard or Yale or Princeton stays with you and matters even if you work in the DPW picking up trash --- will matter when you go for supervisor and later head of department. Does it determine how you will do in life -- of course not. Tones of colleges will work. But just as it is not Harvard or bustr please do not believe that it no longer matters after first job.

Really, if I'm working as a trash collector, I will get further ahead if I went to Harvard? What are you smoking? In your scenario I've graduated from Harvard and working as a trash collector actually picking up trash and use my Harvard degree to move up the supervisor ladder and to dept head of trash collection? So extremely glad I graduated from Harvard to do that. Somehow I think there are more important issues---such as why the hell did I graduate from an Ivy League school yet I'm working as a trash collector(something that barely requires a HS degree).


I've lived life and nobody has ever asked where I attended college after my first job. Hell, for my first real job nobody asked either, but that was because it was the direct result of 2 summer internships with the same dept, so they knew my work (and I guess where I had attended college) and happily were waiting to hire me full time. Switched jobs 2 years later and what mattered was my references from my first job, not where I attended college. Never once was I asked about college or where I went in my 3 interviews for the 2nd job. So while it might have still been on my resume at only 2 years out of grad School, nobody asked/discussed it. Instead they discussed my qualifications and work experience as a normal person would expect to happen. So yes had I attended Harvard and someone interviewing me had gone to Harvard, perhaps it might have swayed them a bit to liking me over someone else. But ultimately, I'd hope a Harvard educated person would not just hire me cause I also have a Harvard degree---I'd hope they could look at my real qualifications and make a decision based on that.

Only way attending Harvard/Y/P matters is if I need one of my buddies to call a future boss and put in a good word. Same for all jobs after the 2nd job. Nobody cared where I attended college. What matters is how I performed at my previous jobs and my references.

Yes, your connections at HYP/etc will give you a network of people willing to help you, so will many other colleges. Penn State has a large network, so does Purdue, UMich, VATech, UVA, etc. Plenty of highly successful people graduate from non-ivy/T20 schools and go on to do great things.

So you go on thinking your Harvard degree matters to most people once you are over 25 yo.

The thing is, PP, you don't mention what your job is. And it doesn't sound like you went to or intend to go to a strong graduate program. I work in the arts and I agree, nobody cares where anybody went to college. But for people who want to go into more competitive fields, where one's degree came from does matter. Your argument is very effective.

Actually you would be wrong on the graduate program I attended. I followed my CS/Engineering path for a career, but also have a 2nd major in the arts and have pursued teaching that as well decades later. My advanced degree is in CS/Engineering from one of the Top 5 schools for CS (a school that has been T5 for decades--think MIT/Stanford and this school). While there I interacted/took classes with students in the elite MBA program as well during my time there. So I hold 2 undergrad degrees from a T10 university and a graduate degree from a T20 (but T5 for CS, heck likely T3). I'll agree that for a few areas, where you went to undergrad matters, but even then Harvard Business school is not all Ivy League undergrads. Plenty of people from T100 schools (or lower) go on to graduate school at top universities in many areas. Because it's what they did in undergrad that matters---the research they did, the references from their professors is what helps get them in along with their academic record and possible work experience. The people who "where you go matters" most are the first generation student. For them, their family does NOT have any connections typically, so they benefit the most from a T20 school. For a full pay student who has been striving for getting into a t20 school since they were 5, they already have a lot of connections and guidance from their family

Parents and students should not think that attending a T10 school is necessary for a great future. I look around at my partner's company (and the previous one's they worked at as an executive) and most of the management team got their degrees at "basic" universities---only 1 or 2 have degrees from "elite" or even T50 universities. Yet they are all top level executives in their field. In fact many started at universities most would not have even heard of (so definately not T100). Yes, it might help a bit, but 95% of getting further in life is because of the hard work you put in and the connections you make. Want to go to grad school? Then get involved in research early in undergrad and get to know your professors, so they can write a glowing review for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

If you're going back that far, the people who were going to the "elite" colleges back then weren't getting into those schools on merit, and admission wasn't particularly competitive (assuming you were a wealthy white guy and not something undesirable like a Jew or a woman). And everyone back then who got admitted to Ivy league schools graduated, unless they died in a sailing accident or something.

So, it's not terribly impressive if you have that history in your family. American universities didn't really become meritocracies until after WWII.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

I'm so sorry for them. That's terrible. There aren't enough spots for these kids. Some of them will have to find another path. Ivy/Ivy+ or bust is a recipe for heartbreak for most kids.

And a really stupid recipe at that. Once you get your first job (other than in a few fields---high level investing/PE is one area) it really does not matter where you went. It's what you did in college that matters, and what you do at the job. My first kid went to at T100 school, and the program was rigorous, with the honor program being even more rigorous for those who are up to that challenge (not my kid). all of my DC's friends are gainfully employed or onto graduate school (that's over 25 students). Some in at top graduate schools and medical schools. You do not have to attend top 20 schools to be successful.

This once you get your first job nonsense has to go. Going to Harvard or Yale or Princeton stays with you and matters even if you work in the DPW picking up trash --- will matter when you go for supervisor and later head of department. Does it determine how you will do in life -- of course not. Tones of colleges will work. But just as it is not Harvard or bustr please do not believe that it no longer matters after first job.

Really, if I'm working as a trash collector, I will get further ahead if I went to Harvard? What are you smoking? In your scenario I've graduated from Harvard and working as a trash collector actually picking up trash and use my Harvard degree to move up the supervisor ladder and to dept head of trash collection? So extremely glad I graduated from Harvard to do that. Somehow I think there are more important issues---such as why the hell did I graduate from an Ivy League school yet I'm working as a trash collector(something that barely requires a HS degree).


I've lived life and nobody has ever asked where I attended college after my first job. Hell, for my first real job nobody asked either, but that was because it was the direct result of 2 summer internships with the same dept, so they knew my work (and I guess where I had attended college) and happily were waiting to hire me full time. Switched jobs 2 years later and what mattered was my references from my first job, not where I attended college. Never once was I asked about college or where I went in my 3 interviews for the 2nd job. So while it might have still been on my resume at only 2 years out of grad School, nobody asked/discussed it. Instead they discussed my qualifications and work experience as a normal person would expect to happen. So yes had I attended Harvard and someone interviewing me had gone to Harvard, perhaps it might have swayed them a bit to liking me over someone else. But ultimately, I'd hope a Harvard educated person would not just hire me cause I also have a Harvard degree---I'd hope they could look at my real qualifications and make a decision based on that.

Only way attending Harvard/Y/P matters is if I need one of my buddies to call a future boss and put in a good word. Same for all jobs after the 2nd job. Nobody cared where I attended college. What matters is how I performed at my previous jobs and my references.

Yes, your connections at HYP/etc will give you a network of people willing to help you, so will many other colleges. Penn State has a large network, so does Purdue, UMich, VATech, UVA, etc. Plenty of highly successful people graduate from non-ivy/T20 schools and go on to do great things.

So you go on thinking your Harvard degree matters to most people once you are over 25 yo.

The thing is, PP, you don't mention what your job is. And it doesn't sound like you went to or intend to go to a strong graduate program. I work in the arts and I agree, nobody cares where anybody went to college. But for people who want to go into more competitive fields, where one's degree came from does matter. Your argument is very effective.

Actually you would be wrong on the graduate program I attended. I followed my CS/Engineering path for a career, but also have a 2nd major in the arts and have pursued teaching that as well decades later. My advanced degree is in CS/Engineering from one of the Top 5 schools for CS (a school that has been T5 for decades--think MIT/Stanford and this school). While there I interacted/took classes with students in the elite MBA program as well during my time there. So I hold 2 undergrad degrees from a T10 university and a graduate degree from a T20 (but T5 for CS, heck likely T3). I'll agree that for a few areas, where you went to undergrad matters, but even then Harvard Business school is not all Ivy League undergrads. Plenty of people from T100 schools (or lower) go on to graduate school at top universities in many areas. Because it's what they did in undergrad that matters---the research they did, the references from their professors is what helps get them in along with their academic record and possible work experience. The people who "where you go matters" most are the first generation student. For them, their family does NOT have any connections typically, so they benefit the most from a T20 school. For a full pay student who has been striving for getting into a t20 school since they were 5, they already have a lot of connections and guidance from their family

Parents and students should not think that attending a T10 school is necessary for a great future. I look around at my partner's company (and the previous one's they worked at as an executive) and most of the management team got their degrees at "basic" universities---only 1 or 2 have degrees from "elite" or even T50 universities. Yet they are all top level executives in their field. In fact many started at universities most would not have even heard of (so definately not T100). Yes, it might help a bit, but 95% of getting further in life is because of the hard work you put in and the connections you make. Want to go to grad school? Then get involved in research early in undergrad and get to know your professors, so they can write a glowing review for you.

So I’m assuming that you went to Berkeley? . . . Or maybe Carnegie-Mellom?

By the way, I love your posts! Keep them coming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

I'm so sorry for them. That's terrible. There aren't enough spots for these kids. Some of them will have to find another path. Ivy/Ivy+ or bust is a recipe for heartbreak for most kids.

And a really stupid recipe at that. Once you get your first job (other than in a few fields---high level investing/PE is one area) it really does not matter where you went. It's what you did in college that matters, and what you do at the job. My first kid went to at T100 school, and the program was rigorous, with the honor program being even more rigorous for those who are up to that challenge (not my kid). all of my DC's friends are gainfully employed or onto graduate school (that's over 25 students). Some in at top graduate schools and medical schools. You do not have to attend top 20 schools to be successful.

This once you get your first job nonsense has to go. Going to Harvard or Yale or Princeton stays with you and matters even if you work in the DPW picking up trash --- will matter when you go for supervisor and later head of department. Does it determine how you will do in life -- of course not. Tones of colleges will work. But just as it is not Harvard or bustr please do not believe that it no longer matters after first job.

Really, if I'm working as a trash collector, I will get further ahead if I went to Harvard? What are you smoking? In your scenario I've graduated from Harvard and working as a trash collector actually picking up trash and use my Harvard degree to move up the supervisor ladder and to dept head of trash collection? So extremely glad I graduated from Harvard to do that. Somehow I think there are more important issues---such as why the hell did I graduate from an Ivy League school yet I'm working as a trash collector(something that barely requires a HS degree).


I've lived life and nobody has ever asked where I attended college after my first job. Hell, for my first real job nobody asked either, but that was because it was the direct result of 2 summer internships with the same dept, so they knew my work (and I guess where I had attended college) and happily were waiting to hire me full time. Switched jobs 2 years later and what mattered was my references from my first job, not where I attended college. Never once was I asked about college or where I went in my 3 interviews for the 2nd job. So while it might have still been on my resume at only 2 years out of grad School, nobody asked/discussed it. Instead they discussed my qualifications and work experience as a normal person would expect to happen. So yes had I attended Harvard and someone interviewing me had gone to Harvard, perhaps it might have swayed them a bit to liking me over someone else. But ultimately, I'd hope a Harvard educated person would not just hire me cause I also have a Harvard degree---I'd hope they could look at my real qualifications and make a decision based on that.

Only way attending Harvard/Y/P matters is if I need one of my buddies to call a future boss and put in a good word. Same for all jobs after the 2nd job. Nobody cared where I attended college. What matters is how I performed at my previous jobs and my references.

Yes, your connections at HYP/etc will give you a network of people willing to help you, so will many other colleges. Penn State has a large network, so does Purdue, UMich, VATech, UVA, etc. Plenty of highly successful people graduate from non-ivy/T20 schools and go on to do great things.


I went to both Harvard undergrad and the law school. You are wrong. It does stay with you for life.

So you go on thinking your Harvard degree matters to most people once you are over 25 yo.

[Anonymous]

What I find interesting about this thread is the focus on going to a “good” school. It would be an interesting turn of direction if the focus were to turn to schools where students get a good education.

Since the ranking systems focus on numerical descriptors of the colleges, they tell us nothing about whether the educational experience a student actually receives is top shelf. With today’s college costs, I understand the concern with ROI, but going to college is still an educational decision first and foremost. Too often the discussions are about which college’s degree can I trade off for the highest paying job. Since career success is determined primarily by hard work, chasing a T20 brand name becomes a fool’s errand.

[Anonymous]

What I find interesting about this thread is the focus on going to a “good” school. It would be an interesting turn of direction if the focus were to turn to schools where students get a good education.

Since the ranking systems focus on numerical descriptors of the colleges, they tell us nothing about whether the educational experience a student actually receives is top shelf. With today’s college costs, I understand the concern with ROI, but going to college is still an educational decision first and foremost. Too often the discussions are about which college’s degree can I trade off for the highest paying job. Since career success is determined primarily by hard work, chasing a T20 brand name becomes a fool’s errand.


+1 to this. I'm the parent of a college kid who is getting a stellar education, in my opinion. A friend of his at a t20 school that is way more prestigious says the classes aren't great, the professors aren't interesting and they aren't learning a lot. I think it's really interesting the difference between getting accepted into a college and going to college at one of those places. It's hard to tell what the college is actually like - instead everyone is focused on just getting in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

I'm so sorry for them. That's terrible. There aren't enough spots for these kids. Some of them will have to find another path. Ivy/Ivy+ or bust is a recipe for heartbreak for most kids.

And a really stupid recipe at that. Once you get your first job (other than in a few fields---high level investing/PE is one area) it really does not matter where you went. It's what you did in college that matters, and what you do at the job. My first kid went to at T100 school, and the program was rigorous, with the honor program being even more rigorous for those who are up to that challenge (not my kid). all of my DC's friends are gainfully employed or onto graduate school (that's over 25 students). Some in at top graduate schools and medical schools. You do not have to attend top 20 schools to be successful.

This once you get your first job nonsense has to go. Going to Harvard or Yale or Princeton stays with you and matters even if you work in the DPW picking up trash --- will matter when you go for supervisor and later head of department. Does it determine how you will do in life -- of course not. Tones of colleges will work. But just as it is not Harvard or bustr please do not believe that it no longer matters after first job.

Really, if I'm working as a trash collector, I will get further ahead if I went to Harvard? What are you smoking? In your scenario I've graduated from Harvard and working as a trash collector actually picking up trash and use my Harvard degree to move up the supervisor ladder and to dept head of trash collection? So extremely glad I graduated from Harvard to do that. Somehow I think there are more important issues---such as why the hell did I graduate from an Ivy League school yet I'm working as a trash collector(something that barely requires a HS degree).


I've lived life and nobody has ever asked where I attended college after my first job. Hell, for my first real job nobody asked either, but that was because it was the direct result of 2 summer internships with the same dept, so they knew my work (and I guess where I had attended college) and happily were waiting to hire me full time. Switched jobs 2 years later and what mattered was my references from my first job, not where I attended college. Never once was I asked about college or where I went in my 3 interviews for the 2nd job. So while it might have still been on my resume at only 2 years out of grad School, nobody asked/discussed it. Instead they discussed my qualifications and work experience as a normal person would expect to happen. So yes had I attended Harvard and someone interviewing me had gone to Harvard, perhaps it might have swayed them a bit to liking me over someone else. But ultimately, I'd hope a Harvard educated person would not just hire me cause I also have a Harvard degree---I'd hope they could look at my real qualifications and make a decision based on that.

Only way attending Harvard/Y/P matters is if I need one of my buddies to call a future boss and put in a good word. Same for all jobs after the 2nd job. Nobody cared where I attended college. What matters is how I performed at my previous jobs and my references.

Yes, your connections at HYP/etc will give you a network of people willing to help you, so will many other colleges. Penn State has a large network, so does Purdue, UMich, VATech, UVA, etc. Plenty of highly successful people graduate from non-ivy/T20 schools and go on to do great things.

So you go on thinking your Harvard degree matters to most people once you are over 25 yo.

My Harvard Law Degree “”matters” every single day as I
make good money for my family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

I'm so sorry for them. That's terrible. There aren't enough spots for these kids. Some of them will have to find another path. Ivy/Ivy+ or bust is a recipe for heartbreak for most kids.

And a really stupid recipe at that. Once you get your first job (other than in a few fields---high level investing/PE is one area) it really does not matter where you went. It's what you did in college that matters, and what you do at the job. My first kid went to at T100 school, and the program was rigorous, with the honor program being even more rigorous for those who are up to that challenge (not my kid). all of my DC's friends are gainfully employed or onto graduate school (that's over 25 students). Some in at top graduate schools and medical schools. You do not have to attend top 20 schools to be successful.

This once you get your first job nonsense has to go. Going to Harvard or Yale or Princeton stays with you and matters even if you work in the DPW picking up trash --- will matter when you go for supervisor and later head of department. Does it determine how you will do in life -- of course not. Tones of colleges will work. But just as it is not Harvard or bustr please do not believe that it no longer matters after first job.

Really, if I'm working as a trash collector, I will get further ahead if I went to Harvard? What are you smoking? In your scenario I've graduated from Harvard and working as a trash collector actually picking up trash and use my Harvard degree to move up the supervisor ladder and to dept head of trash collection? So extremely glad I graduated from Harvard to do that. Somehow I think there are more important issues---such as why the hell did I graduate from an Ivy League school yet I'm working as a trash collector(something that barely requires a HS degree).


I've lived life and nobody has ever asked where I attended college after my first job. Hell, for my first real job nobody asked either, but that was because it was the direct result of 2 summer internships with the same dept, so they knew my work (and I guess where I had attended college) and happily were waiting to hire me full time. Switched jobs 2 years later and what mattered was my references from my first job, not where I attended college. Never once was I asked about college or where I went in my 3 interviews for the 2nd job. So while it might have still been on my resume at only 2 years out of grad School, nobody asked/discussed it. Instead they discussed my qualifications and work experience as a normal person would expect to happen. So yes had I attended Harvard and someone interviewing me had gone to Harvard, perhaps it might have swayed them a bit to liking me over someone else. But ultimately, I'd hope a Harvard educated person would not just hire me cause I also have a Harvard degree---I'd hope they could look at my real qualifications and make a decision based on that.

Only way attending Harvard/Y/P matters is if I need one of my buddies to call a future boss and put in a good word. Same for all jobs after the 2nd job. Nobody cared where I attended college. What matters is how I performed at my previous jobs and my references.

Yes, your connections at HYP/etc will give you a network of people willing to help you, so will many other colleges. Penn State has a large network, so does Purdue, UMich, VATech, UVA, etc. Plenty of highly successful people graduate from non-ivy/T20 schools and go on to do great things.

So you go on thinking your Harvard degree matters to most people once you are over 25 yo.

My Harvard Law Degree “”matters” every single day as I
make good money for my family

I think most people agree grad school, esp law school, brand matters. But there are students from a wide variety of undergrads at top law schools.