NYTs Etiquette - "I Refused to Switch Seats on a Plane. Twice. Was I Wrong?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article but I have seen the issue come up on various boards. In my opinion, being a family or traveling with kids doesn't entitle you to special treatment. When I travel with my family I pay to pick seats, early check-in, extra space - whatever I think we might need. If you're not willing to pay for that then you can't afford the trip. Other travelers have also paid for those services and they don't owe you anything.

I would like to live in a society that gives a little more grace and has a little more patience for society’s very young and very old (and their caretakers). Kindness is a value I love to see in companies and individuals alike.

Why are families the only ones deserving of kindness? Look at it this way--you have your loving family. Someone flying alone may be single and desperately lonely and sad about it. Who deserves the grace and compassion? It's this kind of myopia that makes parents of young children so repugnant at times.

Disclaimer: there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being single and many single people are happy and content.

Holy projection. Nowhere did I malign single people nor suggest they also aren’t deserving of grace and kindness. We all are. I believe American society suffers from a deep deficit of both. The several nasty responses to my quite benevolent post is proof of that.

I wonder where we’re headed from here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s behind a paywall so I can’t read the article and comment. Please remember not everyone has a subscription to NYT. These posts with links that people can’t see are annoying.

If you're already hitting the paywall, it means you've read your articles for the month.

Subscribe you cheap f#ck. Good journalism isn't free.

NYT is not good journalism. Why would I pay for it?

Most likely the same reason you pay for FOX on cable.

I don't pay for Fox or cable either. But I do know bad journalism riddled with biases and lies and gross misinterpretation and deliberate stoking the hysteria of its audience (of which Fox is also guilty, FYI), and written by journalists who too frequently get caught lying. It's been 20 years since I stopped paying much attention to the NYT when it became clear the paper deliberately panders to a specific audience aka preaching to the choir, and offers very little actual informative and objective reporting.

As for the agony auntie meme in this thread, which is typical of the dubious ethics columns inventing furor when there was none I vaguely remember from the paper before I stopped reading it, I used to fly regularly and would have only changed seats if I received an equivalent seat elsewhere. I'm not sure why I should be more considerate of *other* people's families when they are *not concerned* about me. Thankfully most of my flights were international so I rarely had any issues, but the one time I did willingly agree to change seats so a family group could sit together, on a flight from the UK to the US, the new seat was directly under a broken AC vent that could not be turned off, and the plane was fully booked and I couldn't be moved again, which meant a draft of frigid air directly on my head and ear the entire flight (in December!) and resulted in a cold the next day. Just in time for Christmas. Lesson learned. It was not my problem that particular family had failed to get their act together and booked seats for their teen kids together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article but I have seen the issue come up on various boards. In my opinion, being a family or traveling with kids doesn't entitle you to special treatment. When I travel with my family I pay to pick seats, early check-in, extra space - whatever I think we might need. If you're not willing to pay for that then you can't afford the trip. Other travelers have also paid for those services and they don't owe you anything.

I would like to live in a society that gives a little more grace and has a little more patience for society’s very young and very old (and their caretakers). Kindness is a value I love to see in companies and individuals alike.

"give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"

Plan ahead if you can when flying if you need seats together is the life lesson.

Luckily we all have many opportunities to be kind and thoughtful every day. You never know what others are going through. Bonus: it’s free.

[Anonymous]

If you have the option to pay for a seat and someone chooses not to they are not entitled to ge other seat. And, they should compensate the other person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I remember when my oldest was a baby, I bought TWO seats, specifically so I could use one for his carseat. The flight was oversold, and the airline attendant brought on a standby person and expected me to give him my second seat, where my baby was. I pulled out both tickets, told her I had PAID for those seats, and I wasn't giving them up. She loudly said, "Well, I guess she's not going to help us out today," and escorted the standby passenger off the plane. She then proceeded to ignore me for the rest of the flight, asking everyone around me what they'd like to drink, etc. - but not me. I couldn't believe how arrogant she was, and I wrote an email to United afterwards.

If you pay for your seat(s), you should not be expected to move for someone else's convenience.

Yes, this sounds like my experiences on united. Awful!

I have had the worst experiences on United. I was once traveling back from London with my daughter who was about 20 months at the time, which I had done several times before. She was still young enough to be a lap child but I paid for a seat because it's too cramped to have a child on your left for that long. Even though I'd done this before without issue, on this particular flight, the flight attendant refused to give my child a meal. He said had to make sure he had enough meals for all the adults first. I was livid and said, but we paid for a seat for her so she should get a meal, but that apparently didn't matter. He brought me a pouch of applesauce instead. A 20 month old eats real food! Luckily, I had brought a few snacks, but that is a long time to be trapped on a plane and denied food. I complained to several of the other flight attendants and finally after I had given her my meal and he had fed all the other passengers, he finally brought her a meal because there were some "leftovers."

You give her your food. And complain.

[Anonymous]

Some you you need to go back to kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I remember when my oldest was a baby, I bought TWO seats, specifically so I could use one for his carseat. The flight was oversold, and the airline attendant brought on a standby person and expected me to give him my second seat, where my baby was. I pulled out both tickets, told her I had PAID for those seats, and I wasn't giving them up. She loudly said, "Well, I guess she's not going to help us out today," and escorted the standby passenger off the plane. She then proceeded to ignore me for the rest of the flight, asking everyone around me what they'd like to drink, etc. - but not me. I couldn't believe how arrogant she was, and I wrote an email to United afterwards.

If you pay for your seat(s), you should not be expected to move for someone else's convenience.

Yes, this sounds like my experiences on united. Awful!

I have had the worst experiences on United. I was once traveling back from London with my daughter who was about 20 months at the time, which I had done several times before. She was still young enough to be a lap child but I paid for a seat because it's too cramped to have a child on your left for that long. Even though I'd done this before without issue, on this particular flight, the flight attendant refused to give my child a meal. He said had to make sure he had enough meals for all the adults first. I was livid and said, but we paid for a seat for her so she should get a meal, but that apparently didn't matter. He brought me a pouch of applesauce instead. A 20 month old eats real food! Luckily, I had brought a few snacks, but that is a long time to be trapped on a plane and denied food. I complained to several of the other flight attendants and finally after I had given her my meal and he had fed all the other passengers, he finally brought her a meal because there were some "leftovers."

You give her your food. And complain.

Did you read what she wrote? That is exactly what was done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I usually fly Southwest, where families have every opportunity to pay a bit more to choose whatever seats they want. Inevitably, there is some family that doesn't and then wants everyone to move around so they can sit together.

I was once asked to move from my aisle seat to the middle seat in the same row so the dad could sit on the aisle across from the mom and two kids. I said no. They were pissed. The mom tried twice to get the flight attendant to make me move. Fortunately, he wouldn't.

The minute the plane took off, the dad fell asleep.

That's lame - because the child wasn't sitting alone. The child was sitting with the mom. I agree in this case that you weren't obliged to move your seat. But the paying a bit more is actually a lot more. I am a single mom and single income -- and to me its expensive to pay the extra fee. I was lucky my daughter and I were never separated, but I hope if we were - someone would have moved. We would happily have taken a middle seat and aisle though. I would never ask someone to move to the middle seat....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article but I have seen the issue come up on various boards. In my opinion, being a family or traveling with kids doesn't entitle you to special treatment. When I travel with my family I pay to pick seats, early check-in, extra space - whatever I think we might need. If you're not willing to pay for that then you can't afford the trip. Other travelers have also paid for those services and they don't owe you anything.

I would like to live in a society that gives a little more grace and has a little more patience for society’s very young and very old (and their caretakers). Kindness is a value I love to see in companies and individuals alike.

"give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"

Plan ahead if you can when flying if you need seats together is the life lesson.

Luckily we all have many opportunities to be kind and thoughtful every day. You never know what others are going through. Bonus: it’s free.

It's not free when you've paid extra for your chosen seat. Do you not get it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article but I have seen the issue come up on various boards. In my opinion, being a family or traveling with kids doesn't entitle you to special treatment. When I travel with my family I pay to pick seats, early check-in, extra space - whatever I think we might need. If you're not willing to pay for that then you can't afford the trip. Other travelers have also paid for those services and they don't owe you anything.

I would like to live in a society that gives a little more grace and has a little more patience for society’s very young and very old (and their caretakers). Kindness is a value I love to see in companies and individuals alike.

Why are families the only ones deserving of kindness? Look at it this way--you have your loving family. Someone flying alone may be single and desperately lonely and sad about it. Who deserves the grace and compassion? It's this kind of myopia that makes parents of young children so repugnant at times.

Disclaimer: there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being single and many single people are happy and content.

Holy projection. Nowhere did I malign single people nor suggest they also aren’t deserving of grace and kindness. We all are. I believe American society suffers from a deep deficit of both. The several nasty responses to my quite benevolent post is proof of that.

I wonder where we’re headed from here.

Not projection at all. Your original post clearly privileged the comfort and care of families above people traveling alone. Maybe they've got shit going on in their life and need their seat and some kindness more than a family. Your post was only benevolent in one direction and I'm calling you on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article but I have seen the issue come up on various boards. In my opinion, being a family or traveling with kids doesn't entitle you to special treatment. When I travel with my family I pay to pick seats, early check-in, extra space - whatever I think we might need. If you're not willing to pay for that then you can't afford the trip. Other travelers have also paid for those services and they don't owe you anything.

I would like to live in a society that gives a little more grace and has a little more patience for society’s very young and very old (and their caretakers). Kindness is a value I love to see in companies and individuals alike.

Why are families the only ones deserving of kindness? Look at it this way--you have your loving family. Someone flying alone may be single and desperately lonely and sad about it. Who deserves the grace and compassion? It's this kind of myopia that makes parents of young children so repugnant at times.

Disclaimer: there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being single and many single people are happy and content.

Holy projection. Nowhere did I malign single people nor suggest they also aren’t deserving of grace and kindness. We all are. I believe American society suffers from a deep deficit of both. The several nasty responses to my quite benevolent post is proof of that.

I wonder where we’re headed from here.

Not projection at all. Your original post clearly privileged the comfort and care of families above people traveling alone. Maybe they've got shit going on in their life and need their seat and some kindness more than a family. Your post was only benevolent in one direction and I'm calling you on it.

NP but why do they need seat 29A as opposed to seat 27A? If they are flying alone and therefore not next to a friend or family member to start with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article but I have seen the issue come up on various boards. In my opinion, being a family or traveling with kids doesn't entitle you to special treatment. When I travel with my family I pay to pick seats, early check-in, extra space - whatever I think we might need. If you're not willing to pay for that then you can't afford the trip. Other travelers have also paid for those services and they don't owe you anything.

I would like to live in a society that gives a little more grace and has a little more patience for society’s very young and very old (and their caretakers). Kindness is a value I love to see in companies and individuals alike.

"give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"

Plan ahead if you can when flying if you need seats together is the life lesson.

Luckily we all have many opportunities to be kind and thoughtful every day. You never know what others are going through. Bonus: it’s free.

It's not free when you've paid extra for your chosen seat. Do you not get it?

I think it is you who doesn’t get it. Peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article but I have seen the issue come up on various boards. In my opinion, being a family or traveling with kids doesn't entitle you to special treatment. When I travel with my family I pay to pick seats, early check-in, extra space - whatever I think we might need. If you're not willing to pay for that then you can't afford the trip. Other travelers have also paid for those services and they don't owe you anything.

I would like to live in a society that gives a little more grace and has a little more patience for society’s very young and very old (and their caretakers). Kindness is a value I love to see in companies and individuals alike.

Why are families the only ones deserving of kindness? Look at it this way--you have your loving family. Someone flying alone may be single and desperately lonely and sad about it. Who deserves the grace and compassion? It's this kind of myopia that makes parents of young children so repugnant at times.

Disclaimer: there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being single and many single people are happy and content.

Holy projection. Nowhere did I malign single people nor suggest they also aren’t deserving of grace and kindness. We all are. I believe American society suffers from a deep deficit of both. The several nasty responses to my quite benevolent post is proof of that.

I wonder where we’re headed from here.

Not projection at all. Your original post clearly privileged the comfort and care of families above people traveling alone. Maybe they've got shit going on in their life and need their seat and some kindness more than a family. Your post was only benevolent in one direction and I'm calling you on it.

Peace to you my friend.

[Anonymous]

I am tall and always book an aisle seat. Once I gave up my aisle seat for a middle to accommodate a family, and sat between 2 very morbidly obese people (who probably should have been required to buy extra seats, but this was in the 1990s). I was so packed in and claustrophobic that I vomited into the airbag.

But yeah- if I pay for an upgraded seat, I am NOT moving without compensation from the airline (and not in the form of a voucher). I have kids (teenagers now), but I would never have asked anyone to move for us when they were younger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article but I have seen the issue come up on various boards. In my opinion, being a family or traveling with kids doesn't entitle you to special treatment. When I travel with my family I pay to pick seats, early check-in, extra space - whatever I think we might need. If you're not willing to pay for that then you can't afford the trip. Other travelers have also paid for those services and they don't owe you anything.

I would like to live in a society that gives a little more grace and has a little more patience for society’s very young and very old (and their caretakers). Kindness is a value I love to see in companies and individuals alike.

Why are families the only ones deserving of kindness? Look at it this way--you have your loving family. Someone flying alone may be single and desperately lonely and sad about it. Who deserves the grace and compassion? It's this kind of myopia that makes parents of young children so repugnant at times.

Disclaimer: there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being single and many single people are happy and content.

Holy projection. Nowhere did I malign single people nor suggest they also aren’t deserving of grace and kindness. We all are. I believe American society suffers from a deep deficit of both. The several nasty responses to my quite benevolent post is proof of that.

I wonder where we’re headed from here.

The PP has a point. Solo travelers (not necessarily single as in marital status) are often targets for the "would you consider moving" pitch. It has happened to me many times. I feel the airline staff single us out, make the request with the parent/child standing there looking at us and then we are expected to smile graciously and give up our seats.

I did it for awhile and usually wound up in some horrid situation where I got a seat that didn't recline or next to an annoying person. I reminded myself that No good deed goes unpunished.
So I stopped.

Last time it was a very entitled, abrasive woman who wanted to shift around 3 people so she could get herself and her kids all seated together. She had gone up and down asking people (holding up boarding BTW) and had figured out a hopscotch pattern of moving other passengers simply to accommodate HER desires.

The kids were in their early teens! I just said "No. Sorry." and went back to reading my book.